Starter will not turn over

1954lincoln · Nov 24, 2020

Hello,

I have a six volt positive ground starter that im trying to check using a battery and jumper cables. Nothing is happening. I used a meter to check the continuity between the case and the post and im getting a tone.

This is my back up starter and im getting the same for the one that is in. The back up is dirty.

Any suggestions where to start?

Mike

David G · Nov 24, 2020

The continuity will show as short, as it will be less than 1 ohm.

Any sparks when you hook up battery to it?

1954lincoln · Nov 24, 2020

Yes i was getting a spark. Could it be because it sat since the 80's?

old · Nov 24, 2020

Can you turn it by hand?? If you can't them good chance it is locked up and need to be cleaned up

Janicholson · Nov 24, 2020

The starter drive is broken. It is a "flow-Through" Starter and the inertia of the starting of the starters spinning draws the pinion toward the starter's
frame (kinda backwards). The starter, when operational, has almost zero resistance, less than one Ohm. When touched with jumper cables, the spark is more like
starting to weld, than just a spark. The starter will jump so hard on the floor that it will spin out of control! Testing with a meter (even when broken and not
working) will probably show conductivity due to copper dust from wear. That one needs to be rebuilt. Not hard, watch Youtube videos. The Big spring should
connect the drive pinion to pull it back out of engagement. Jim

1954lincoln · Nov 24, 2020

(reply to post at 14:01:41 11/24/20)

It needs a little force to spin it.

1954lincoln · Nov 24, 2020

Does anything look off?

John T · Nov 24, 2020

I would try to clean/buff/shine up the commutator to remove any oxidation or oil or crud. To test for shorts in the armature place an ohm
meter lead on the armature shaft then place the other lead on the commutator segments and there should be an OPEN circuit IE NO shorts. The
brushes should be clean with enough length remaining so the hold down springys are pushing them tight to the commutator. An Ohm meter from
frame to the input stud should show continuity and extreme LOW resistance. CAUTION when trying to jump with a battery and cables have it
tight in a vice cuz it kicks in hard n fast. The bushings have to be in good enough shape so the armature isn't dragging.....It should turn
free n smooth by hand and exhibit no burned smells..

John T

rustred · Nov 24, 2020

probably not spinning due to the grease on the commutator. has to be shiny brass clean. brushes look not all that bad, must be for 1954
lincoln.

Janicholson · Nov 24, 2020

If you are adventurous, Open it up and take a look. It needs to be cleaned out and the brushes probably need to be replaced. new bushings in the end frames are
needed is any play is detected. The drive must be replaced. Jim

1954lincoln · Nov 24, 2020

I tested the pivit point where the bushing is and the place where the brushes rub and did not get any continuity

I did get a tone for cont when i touched the pivit point and the larger part of the windings.

Also i had cont with the case and 2 of the brushes screwed in and had cont with 2 other brushes and the post.

Im trying to find where the short is located but when apart i cant seem to locate the issue.

1954lincoln · Nov 24, 2020

(quoted from post at 15:23:45 11/24/20) probably not spinning due to the grease on the commutator. has to be shiny brass clean. brushes look not all that bad, must be for 1954
lincoln.

I figured since it is the same as the ford tractors you guys would know best

I

You guys were sooo helpful on my jd mt. It has been running great

1954lincoln · Nov 24, 2020

(quoted from post at 15:19:37 11/24/20) I would try to clean/buff/shine up the commutator to remove any oxidation or oil or crud. To test for shorts in the armature place an ohm
meter lead on the armature shaft then place the other lead on the commutator segments and there should be an OPEN circuit IE NO shorts. The
brushes should be clean with enough length remaining so the hold down springys are pushing them tight to the commutator. An Ohm meter from
frame to the input stud should show continuity and extreme LOW resistance. CAUTION when trying to jump with a battery and cables have it
tight in a vice cuz it kicks in hard n fast. The bushings have to be in good enough shape so the armature isn't dragging.....It should turn
free n smooth by hand and exhibit no burned smells..

John T

Thank you john

I checked the segments and they were all open

You can tell im not thet experienced with a meter

Can you explain the post Nd the case? I did not under stand that part

When i check the post and the brushes i get .7 ohms on 2 and open on the case.

John T · Nov 24, 2020

"Can you explain the post Nd the case? I did not under stand that part"

Post I meant the terminal with nut where the big cable attaches. From there to the case/frame/ground there should be continuity and very
low resistance

"When i check the post and the brushes i get .7 ohms on 2 and open on the case."

The fields and armature are all in series and all very low resistance so about anywhere you measure with respect to case/frame/ground Id
expect very low ohms.

If theres no continuity IE an open circuit from the commutator segments to the steel shaft THATS GOOD THE ARMATURE ISNT SHORTED

Some cheaper ohm meters arent real accurate at low ohms readings

John T

guido · Nov 24, 2020

Hello 1954lincoln,

Its hard to see, but it looks that the brushes are NOT in the guide and also NOT touching the commutator.
They also appear to be pretty worn out. They appear to be at different lengths again what appears to be
the end part of the commutator where the washer goes.

You need to old the brushes in the guides after caging their springs, which looks like they are not. Then
when you fully install the end piece, you can put the springs on the brushes so they press they push
against the commutator. You nay be able to use the springs to hold the brushes up,

Guido.

1954lincoln · Nov 24, 2020

(quoted from post at 17:52:18 11/24/20) Hello 1954lincoln,

Its hard to see, but it looks that the brushes are NOT in the guide and also NOT touching the commutator.
They also appear to be pretty worn out. They appear to be at different lengths again what appears to be
the end part of the commutator where the washer goes.

You need to old the brushes in the guides after caging their springs, which looks like they are not. Then
when you fully install the end piece, you can put the springs on the brushes so they press they push
against the commutator. You nay be able to use the springs to hold the brushes up,

Guido.

1954lincoln · Nov 24, 2020

rustred · Nov 24, 2020

should have the ground on the armature shaft and then you check each commutator bar for continuity after a clean up with fine emery. and scrap each crack with a pick to make sure there is no continuity between them. you dont want any nor to the shaft. checking through the
case and brg. is not the best. plus there was also the growler to check armatures.

1954lincoln · Nov 24, 2020

I was able to take it apart and clean it up real good. I was using my 6 volt battery from the MT and i dont know of 700 amps is enought to spin it good.

It stated spinning slowly then sped up. I had some cheap cables too.

How do you tell if the bendix is good or not. You guys were saying it needed replacing. What did you notice?

Mike

Janicholson · Nov 24, 2020

Well it looks better, but is not actually better. Even booster cables will make a starter spin so fast so quickly that it will scare you. it will not
be mild and gentle picking up of speed. it is dramatic and violent. If the battery is charged, the starter is nin need of rebuilding or replacement.
There are still good shops in some towns, Our town in St. Cloud MN has Reds Auto Electric. A real repair rebuilding knowledgeable staff. The drive
should look like this one, and the pinion gear must be pulled back out of engagement with the ring gear, and yours is not!!! Jim

1954lincoln · Nov 24, 2020

Hello Jim,

Thank you for the picture. I see what you are saying. I went ahead and pull the one out of the car and cleaned it up and the bendix is also not snapping back but the motor is new on the inside. I will have to look for a bendix.

caterpillar guy · Nov 25, 2020

Commutator needs cleaned and segments cleaned between them. Brushes are done time for a new set. Check spring tension for weak Check bushings for wear. Should be free with no or little wiggle sideways. Look for places where the insulation is rubbed off on the windings and field coils. If all is good then check for free action of the drive gear for sticky spots or letting it turn the wrong direction to start. Like already said it should react with a violent action not a smooth slow motion. keep fingers away or hold with your foot if on the ground.

electro · Nov 25, 2020

The Bendix drive you have is called a Folo-Thru drive which will latch into the drive position and stay in the drive position when spun, that is the normal operation of the drive. It will unlatch and return to the idle position when the gear is spun fast enough by a running engine ring gear. It will stay in the latched drive position if not spun fast enough by the engine.

Your Bendix drive mechanism is likely just fine. If the starter was spun without the engine starting or bench tested then the drive will latch like yours has in the photo. That is normal.

1954lincoln · Nov 27, 2020

(quoted from post at 11:55:07 11/25/20) The Bendix drive you have is called a Folo-Thru drive which will latch into the drive position and stay in the drive position when spun, that is the normal operation of the drive. It will unlatch and return to the idle position when the gear is spun fast enough by a running engine ring gear. It will stay in the latched drive position if not spun fast enough by the engine.

Your Bendix drive mechanism is likely just fine. If the starter was spun without the engine starting or bench tested then the drive will latch like yours has in the photo. That is normal.

I did some more searching on youtube for 6 volt starters and came across a method to reset it by using a wire whee!.

1954lincoln · Nov 27, 2020

(quoted from post at 15:04:06 11/27/20)

(quoted from post at 11:55:07 11/25/20) The Bendix drive you have is called a Folo-Thru drive which will latch into the drive position and stay in the drive position when spun, that is the normal operation of the drive. It will unlatch and return to the idle position when the gear is spun fast enough by a running engine ring gear. It will stay in the latched drive position if not spun fast enough by the engine.

Your Bendix drive mechanism is likely just fine. If the starter was spun without the engine starting or bench tested then the drive will latch like yours has in the photo. That is normal.

Click to expand...

I did some more searching on youtube for 6 volt starters and came across a method to reset it by using a wire whee!.

Starter will not turn over

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