Remove a stuck roll/pivot pin

3crows · Oct 23, 2020

I have a JCB 1400B backhoe. The hydraulic ram that operates the boom is leaking badly and I need to replace the seals. I've tried to remove the roll pin at the rear of the cylinder but it won't move. I used a 1 1/2" steel dowel against it and beat on it with a sledge until the dowel started to mushroom. Didn't move. I heated up the other side and beat on it from that while it was hot and again when it cooled too but it still won't move. The rod end pin moves easily and the ram moves about an eighth of an inch horizontally on this pin but the pin doesn't. It's inside the boom and the only way to get to the seals is to remove the ram from the boom. I've burned out about 1/2" on one side where the security bolt holds it because it had been brazed in one spot. I don't see any sign of brazing on the other side. I ground out all the slag with a die grinder so now I can see a clear line of the pin. I beat on it some more but it still doesn't move. It's 50mm (2") and tool steel I suspect by the sparks when grinding. I also called around to companies that do hydraulic cylinder repair to see if anyone had a mobile hydraulic press service but got no response.

Wisconsin Cowman · Oct 23, 2020

More heat and beating or cut the pin out.

3crows · Oct 23, 2020

What can cut tool steel?

rustred · Oct 23, 2020

was it a pin that should have been greased? if heating and cooling dont get it moving, then you require a puller/ press set up.

Mike(NEOhio) · Oct 23, 2020

A picture might help.

3crows · Oct 23, 2020

Since it has a through bolt/security bolt, it's not pressed in. There's no way it could have been pressed in and lined up with the through bolt sleeve hole. It had to be slid in and rotated for alignment.

markct · Oct 23, 2020

Weld a threaded rod on the end, or a
nut, use a short piece of pipe and a
hollow ram to pull it, they are not
that expensive and worth having, or
get a mobile mechanic with one to do
it, very common in heavy equipment
repair. If it's still too stuck go at
it with a mag drill progressively
larger. It's likely just an alloy
steel with a moderate heat treat like
4140 steel

3crows · Oct 23, 2020

The pin would have been greased some when the ram is greased. The ram does move back and forth on the pin. The boom is stretched out on the ground and there's no pressure on the pin.

Steve@Advance · Oct 23, 2020

Carbide will cut tool steel.

You can get carbide burs and rotary files for the die grinder, but they are very prone to break. Sometimes that's what you have to do though.

Once you get the cylinder out, the hard part is over.

You can rebuild the cylinder yourself, if it is repairable. If there is no wear or damage, just replace the seals. There are online seal supplies. You can match the seals through their catalog, or mail them the old seals and they will match them.

3crows · Oct 23, 2020

(reply to post at 17:44:50 10/23/20) [/
quote]
Got the welding part but hollow ram? I can't picture what you're saying.

3crows · Oct 23, 2020

Are you referring to a slide hammer?

Eagle Beagle · Oct 23, 2020

Get your torch out and blow a big hole in each end of the pin. Run 60-80 psi oxygen and a large cutting tip. Cut back in there as deep as you
can! When everything cools down the pin will come out. Been there-Done that. Keep that torch cutting till the pin flows out white hot and the
torch starts popping!

Beagle

super99 · Oct 23, 2020

Makes me wonder if the pin is bent and that's why it doesn't want to drive out. Is there room to get between the cylinder and the mount on both sides and cut the pin with a sawzall??

3crows · Oct 23, 2020

Yes, there's room for a sawsall blade there but I don't think a sawsall will cut it. I've burned up many a blade cutting Grade 8 bolts and I'm thinking this pin is harder than that. Could be wrong.

redtom · Oct 23, 2020

You said the rod end is loose? Can you pull that pin and swing the cylinder down/out and rebuild it in place? I've done that before if you can get enough room to pull the rod out of the can.

markct · Oct 23, 2020

They are a ram that goes with a porta
power, there is a hole thru the center
so you can put a threaded rod thru and
pull things or use it to push in
bushings etc. My 30 ton is at work or
I would take a picture, it has a 1 1/4
hole thru the center. Works well for
jobs like this

3crows · Oct 23, 2020

(quoted from post at 18:58:00 10/23/20) You said the rod end is loose? Can you pull that pin and swing the cylinder down/out and rebuild it in place? I've done that before if you can get enough room to pull the rod out of the can.

No. The opening in the top of the boom is about 3" long and the ram is about 54" long inside the boom when the boom is extended.

markct · Oct 23, 2020

A good sawzall blade will cut the pin
just like it will a grade 8 bolt, just
need to go slow or blade will burn up
like any cutting tool.

37 chief · Oct 23, 2020

Try backing the other side up with a heavy piece of metal. May take someone to hole it. Your punch may just be bouncing back. Stan

3crows · Oct 23, 2020

Ah so. I built a jig to hold the 1 1/2" steel dowel against the 50mm roll pin and while standing on the boom I beat on the dowel pin with a 6lbs sledge until the dowel started to mushroom. I suspect it's mild steel being softer than the roll pin I have no idea how much pressure I'm exerting on the pin but it's obviously not enough. I'll see if I can rent a porta power with that attachment.

Jim.ME · Oct 24, 2020

(quoted from post at 23:41:40 10/23/20)
Ah so. I built a jig to hold the 1 1/2" steel dowel against the 50mm roll pin and while standing on the boom I beat on the dowel pin with a 6lbs sledge until the dowel started to mushroom. I suspect it's mild steel being softer than the roll pin I have no idea how much pressure I'm exerting on the pin but it's obviously not enough. I'll see if I can rent a porta power with that attachment.

If you do rent a hollow ram and use a rod to pull, don't stand in front of the rod, a.k.a. "line of fire". Stay to the side.

VADAVE · Oct 24, 2020

In all of this discussion I don't see any mention creepers (oil/fluid that creeps into the cracks and releases the stuck item. It is probably too late since you have mushroomed the whole pin by beating on it. In the future plug off one end with putty fill the other end with a release oil and LET IT SIT for a few days then tap it out. Now all you can do is what Eagle Beagle suggests and hope you don't cut the shaft.

DaveBN · Oct 24, 2020

I bet that pin has a groove worn in it that is locking it in place. Can
you move the ram to put pressure in a different direction on the pin?
Dave.

caterpillar guy · Oct 24, 2020

More than likely the pin has worn and there are ledges that have flared slightly causing the pin to not move. Just cut it out and replace or keep cavemaning it till it will not come out without cutting anyway. Your choice I'd cut it out and make a new pin or get a chunk of shaft and use for the new pin.

jimtrs · Oct 24, 2020

When all else fails for me .....

3crows · Oct 25, 2020

To clarify, this is a 2"x 9" solid tool steel pivot pin and not a roll pin. I thought I'd seen it called either but they're different critters. My mistake. The area around the pin is 2" thick on either side of the cast iron/cast steel (?) box with the ram riding in between. I'm thinking of welding a 1" to the end of the pin, burning a 1" + hole in a piece of 1/2" plate to put on the threaded rod with a 1" nut and a couple of billets taller than 2" in between and crank on the nut, beat on the pin etc.

3crows · Nov 1, 2020

No, the ram is too long. But I did finally get the roll pin out.
Here's what I did. I glued a length of 1/4" rubber tubing in a 'U' shape around the pin on one side with rubber cement leaving about 1/4" clearance around the pin. I took a piece of ECBM rubber and a piece of plywood and clamped it over the glued tubing to hold and seal it. Then I sprayed penetrating oil in at the top. Topped off the penetrating oil every day for 3 days and let it creep. Put a small can under neath to catch any penetrating oil that might leak. Not much did. I think the only leakage was from overflow. I sucked in the rod, disconnected the hydraulic lines, slid it forward and up and lifted out with my engine hoist It's out and on the ground. I ordered a gland wrench off Ebay tonight and need to find/order the seals. WOOP!!!

SVcummins · Nov 1, 2020

Penetrating oil cen do amazing things if you let it soak

3crows · Nov 6, 2020

Haven't come up with a replacement pin yet. Do you think an annealed 4140 pin would work? I think I can get a heat treated 4140 pin but it wouldn't be polished, which might take a toll on the bushing.

Remove a stuck roll/pivot pin

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