- Thread starter swindave
- Start date
Donald Lehman
Well-known Member
Never caught on in this area, but they sold about 6 gazillion of em out west.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Looking at it, I can imagine it was mostly because they were slow and produced an awkward package.
Stopping every few feet to tie and eject the bale seems like it would get frustrating after a while. A small square baler is a continuous operation.
The little round bales can still be carried by a person but they look quite awkward to handle. They don't stack neatly like small square bales.
There is a 30-minute video on youtube on the history of these.
Stopping every few feet to tie and eject the bale seems like it would get frustrating after a while. A small square baler is a continuous operation.
The little round bales can still be carried by a person but they look quite awkward to handle. They don't stack neatly like small square bales.
There is a 30-minute video on youtube on the history of these.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
I had one years ago for one summer. Sold it as fast as I could after that summer there a pain in the back sides to use and keep going
Kansas4010
Well-known Member
My dad used one when I was a kid. Something was wrong and it wouldn't feed string right part time so he had me ride on it to help feed the string in. Once it picked the string up it worked ok. It's still sitting in the fence row along with a parts machine. I still hate those things.
The winrow had to be the width of the bale and if the hay was a little heavier on one side the bale would be "pointed". When the bale was finished the twine tube would drop down and the apron would stop. Had an unstyled A John Deere and each bale you would stop the tractor (since the apron stopped), put it in neutral, engage the clutch so the bale would wrap with twine and eject. Then, pull the clutch lever again, put it in gear and make the next bale. They would shed water in the field but not in a stack. Stacking was an art as most of the bales would be somewhat pointed. Needed a bale hook to handle them.
They were actually the forerunner of the big round bailers. They made two different models. The ones with the white tops were the newest model & were a little better than the earliest model. In my experience, they had a mind of their own & were "cantankerous"!
I went to help a farmer friend who had recently had back surgery years ago when I was still teaching school, so had summers off. I was told not to show up at the work site until about 10 am. His HS age son met me there & had the bailer all set up. He gave me some basic information about the bailer. Made a couple of bales with me watching. (Had to stop all forward motion while bailer wrapped the bail. That's the reason AC started putting "wheel clutches" on it's tractors in that era.) Made several hundred descent bales before lunch time. Owner came to field to get me for lunch at ranch headquarters.
He was bailing fall/winter pasture, as that was a common thing to do in the area. Bail the native grasses in June or early July, leave the bales lay, allow native grass to grow in late summer months, use the grass growth for late fall-early winter pasture. The bales will remain in decedent condition & if you don't get a lot a snow, the livestock can stay there all winter.
Back to bailing after lunch & spent next two hours under owners direction adjusting the bailer to get to make a decent bale. Moisture conditions in the grass had changed, so bailer had to be adjusted to accommodate the condition. Bailed until just before dark, when bailer began throwing poorly shaped bales. Came back next day, I was getting better at understanding that cantankerous machine, only took about an hour to get it set to throw a decent bale. Finally finished the job, but it was the most miserable three days I ever spent in a hay field!
I went to help a farmer friend who had recently had back surgery years ago when I was still teaching school, so had summers off. I was told not to show up at the work site until about 10 am. His HS age son met me there & had the bailer all set up. He gave me some basic information about the bailer. Made a couple of bales with me watching. (Had to stop all forward motion while bailer wrapped the bail. That's the reason AC started putting "wheel clutches" on it's tractors in that era.) Made several hundred descent bales before lunch time. Owner came to field to get me for lunch at ranch headquarters.
He was bailing fall/winter pasture, as that was a common thing to do in the area. Bail the native grasses in June or early July, leave the bales lay, allow native grass to grow in late summer months, use the grass growth for late fall-early winter pasture. The bales will remain in decedent condition & if you don't get a lot a snow, the livestock can stay there all winter.
Back to bailing after lunch & spent next two hours under owners direction adjusting the bailer to get to make a decent bale. Moisture conditions in the grass had changed, so bailer had to be adjusted to accommodate the condition. Bailed until just before dark, when bailer began throwing poorly shaped bales. Came back next day, I was getting better at understanding that cantankerous machine, only took about an hour to get it set to throw a decent bale. Finally finished the job, but it was the most miserable three days I ever spent in a hay field!
MJ in the UK
Member
Hi Fordy, you have just reminded me of my friend baling here in the UK with a AC Rotobaler and a John Deere B in the late 1950s. Useually about mid afternoon the tractor clutch would start slipping but he was in luck because a river ran along the bottom of the hay fields so he put his gloves on and took the clutch plates out and tied a length of band on them and dipped them into the river till they cooled off and he could go baling again. That was all he could as he was 12 miles from home and mobile phones had not been invented. MJ.
My father in law had one. One end was usually a bit larger than the other so you had to swap ends to keep the stack kinda level, lol. He did not have a wagon rack, but rather a skid behind a tractor. He always said a poor man has poor ways. Their big advantage was they would shed water like big bales do. As someone said earlier, winter pasture was sometimes baled in June/July and the bales dropped in the field. The cows were turned into that pasture late in the year to eat the regrowth and the bales. Herdsman would not have to hay the cows til the bales were mostly eaten up gobble
Bruce from Can.
Well-known Member
- Location
- Woodville, Ontario, Canada
I still have my dad’s Roto baler that he bought new in 1948 , tucked away in a shed out of the weather. When he purchased the baler he had a Case V tractor, and the baler came with it’s own power plant, a AC model B tractor engine mounted on the side of the baler to power the baler. He bought a new Cockshutt 35 tractor in 1956 and traded the B engine in on a pto gear box assembly, so his Cockshutt 35 with live power could pull and power the baler. This baler made excellent bales provide you had a good crop of hay, and knew how to rake the heavy windrow required to make uniform even bales. Dad’s baler was/is a fairly simple machine, and gave very very few problems to him during the 40 years which he used it. Good machines, but who wants to be bothered picking up , handling, and feeding these small bales today ?
Timmycornpicker
Member
- Location
- Almost Pennsylvania, New Jersey.
They stopped making them before I was
born but when I was a kid, there was one
in a nearby farmer's fence row. Seems he
bought it cheap at an auction and used it
for a year without problems. The next
year it wouldn't wrap right and while
messing with it while it was running,
almost got his arm torn off in the belts.
He never used it again.
born but when I was a kid, there was one
in a nearby farmer's fence row. Seems he
bought it cheap at an auction and used it
for a year without problems. The next
year it wouldn't wrap right and while
messing with it while it was running,
almost got his arm torn off in the belts.
He never used it again.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
In this part of the country, the Roto-Baler was every bit as popular as the square baler. I picked up a bunch of them.
When Vermeer introduced the large round baler, the Roto-baler became obsolete.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
We baled for years with one,great little balers once the operator understood how to run the baler and raked the windrow the same width as the baler platform.They were really designed for the AC WD tractor with the hand clutch.They would take a lot of hay and even with stopping would bale more tons per hour than a JD 14T.
formerly ny bill
Well-known Member
man baling in a field next to our farm on a Sunday in 1958 or 59 took both arms off with a Rotobaler. German refugee from the holocaust. He survived, got fitted with artificial arms, became a cattle dealer, and drove his own F350 cattle truck for years. Dad was real skittish about doing field work on Sundays afterward.
Case Nutty 1660
Well-known Member
there was some around here,, one friend of ours used them many decades,, he never tried to stack them but just would sweep them up with a hay head and dump in his truck with the tail gate reoved but the grain/stock sides on it and then haul some to his hay yard and dump out,, they lasted well that way as they were rolled tight enough they shed water better than small squares will unstacked,, he also rolled up about 250 acres of them and did not add twine int he baler and dropped them where they were made, then would turn his cows into the fields and they ate them during the winter, I hated trying to handle them by hand as i never cared for hay hooks and they pretty much required them
Timmycornpicker
Member
- Location
- Almost Pennsylvania, New Jersey.
If A-C had upsized the roto-baler in the
60s they would have had the world by the
tail. Same with the notill drill
prototype they abandoned.
60s they would have had the world by the
tail. Same with the notill drill
prototype they abandoned.
Bruce from Can.
Well-known Member
- Location
- Woodville, Ontario, Canada
Handling the small round bales wasn’t so bad once you became accustomed to them. We always put a few thousand into dad’s barns each summer. I can understand you folks not feeling the need to put hay undercover in the west, with so little rain fall. Around the Great Lakes basin we get so much rai and snow, and melt thaw cycles through winter, far too much hay is spoiled if left out unprotected. Small squares just become mulch if left outside over winter, absolutely junk.
Bruce from Can.
Well-known Member
- Location
- Woodville, Ontario, Canada
Most tractors from the 50’s would have been on the majority of farms, and 50’s era tractors would have struggled to lift and carry 5-800lb bales. The buckets on many tractors back then were trip action and not hydraulic tip. Even when big bales did arrive on the seen, many farmers tried to use old trip bucket loaders to handle big bales, and had bad experiences with bales coming down the loader arms and crushing the operator, because you had no means to keep the bale level as the bale was raised.
Ya know, windrow width was probably one of the biggest things that caused the problems I experienced lo those many years ago. The pasture that I was bailing in had been mowed in strips (like summer fallowing) & raked with a dump rake at the same time it was mowed. You went up one windrow, turned & went down the next. (Going over each "dumped" windrow with a side delivery rake would have helped.) Nearly all the "dumps" were different widths. Thinking back, lack of a steady windrow probably was a big issue.
Dad put me on running one my freshman year in high school. Never had any trouble with it. Pulled it with a WD. When I purchased my farm I bought a used one. Raking makes a big difference. The last few years I used it I mowed with a swather. It just dropped bale after bale all day. Only adjustment was loosen brake band when done and tighten down the next day.
They were good balers for the era. I put up a few thousand round rotobaler bales in the mid sixties. The farm I worked on had hay wagons with racks on both ends. We didn't need a stacker on the wagon - the bales settled in and "stacked" themselves. Same thing in the loft - they were easy to deal with. We used a hay hook in the left hand and rammed a fist into the center with the right hand. I never operated the baler - I did a lot of raking, with detailed instructions on the width of the windrow. I wouldn't want to fool with them today at age 71 - I like my NH round baler much better. Hay help is nearly non-existent today - so the big round bales are the answer for old guys like me.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
We had both the 14T would only take a meager amount of hay.
Eldon (WA)
Well-known Member
That was our only baler in the 50's, 60's and 70's. We would put up around 12,000 bales some years. Ours had the hi-speed wrap mechanism on it that saved a lot of time. Think of a square baler cutting every bit of hay that went thru it and you can see how much more efficient a round bale was. It could be left out in the field and would shed water unlike a square bale that became a big sponge. When I was 10 years old my job was to rake the perfect windrow while dad baled. Then we started stacking them in the field, starting with a 4x13 bottom layer and building up a pyramid, I swept up the bales with the WD45D and Du-all loader with hay basket, my sisters stacked them. In the fall we hired a guy with a Lahman stack mover to move them home. He would wrap a chain around the bottom layer, the back under them. Worked good, but those stacks were heavy, I think about 304 bales if I remember right. That baler still sets in the trees on the old farm, I inherited a newer white top that my dad bought after I had gone off to college...it is still in the barn in South Dakota and is for sale....
Case Nutty 1660
Well-known Member
I am sure if I had done more I would have learned the tricks,, I guess i should have added I was never a fan of square ones either lol,, most all of our hay is stacked outside here, the small squares if hand stacked right will last here for decades but like you say in your neck of the woods left out they will be junk in a year or less,,
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
Due to the fact it's very boring to have to stop forward motion every 2-3 minutes for brief time for baler to put netwrap on a 4X5.5 rd bale weighing around 1000#s I can't envision how boring it MUST BE stopping forward motion every few seconds for around 50# roll of hay to wrap with twine!!!!
Eldon (WA)
Well-known Member
If you stopped that often you had a very good year and probably a smile on your face the whole time.....
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
IMHO good year would be determined by how acres/bales per yr not how many times one stopped per hour.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Farmers back in those days hadn't yet gotten lazy and spoiled,they expected to have to work.Actually there was a lot going on pretty entertaining.And our
WD45 didn't have AC OR a radio.Can you imagine such hardships?
WD45 didn't have AC OR a radio.Can you imagine such hardships?
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
Yes I can imagine operating a tractor without radio & AC. BTDT over many acres. I walked up/down rows of corn & cotton carrying a hoe. I have even looked at the North bound end of horses that were going South pulling a plow. I still wouldn't have any desire to operate a baler that I had to stop every few seconds to wrap a tiny bale!!!!
I guess we could call it different strokes for different folks.
Destroked 450
Well-known Member
- Location
- Harned, Ky
One did do a lot of stopping with one of those balers but it was a perfect match for a WD Allis with it's trip forward hand clutch, one simply pushed forward on the clutch handle till it released, then the handle would fly forward stopping the tractor, once the bale was wrapped and ejected you pulled the handle back until it snapped into place reengaging the clutch.
Dad had ours set to make 100 lb bales, we used it to roll up second cutting hay and leave it in the field, cows where turned in to the fields during fall and winter to forage on the grass but the bales were to tight for them to eat on.
Each day we'd cut ice on the ponds and chop open a dozen of those little round bales, cows would clean those up a be waiting for more to be chopped open the next day.
Although it took time to make those little round bales they saved a lot of time and labor not having to be hauled and stored, then be hauled back out to be feed.
For beef cattle they were handy little balers, for dairy operators probably not so much.
As others have said the large round baler put a end to the Allis Roto-Baler.
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
If it was such a good invention why didn't it replace the small sq balers that are still being sold today?? To my way of thinking the AC roto baler didn't replace a popup hay loader either BUT bale grapples, auto bale wagons & machine similar to Bale Baron replaced popup hay loaders
I wasn't attempting to compare it to current rd baler BUT needing to stop every few seconds was not for me hand or foot clutch or auto trans.
Eldon (WA)
Well-known Member
Gotta love 'experts' with no experience with a piece of equipment arguing....Duh!
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
I never stated or implied I was an expert. DUH!
And yes yrs back I watched the local AC dealer demonstrating one of those AC rd balers.
Eldon (WA)
Well-known Member
Sure ya did LOL!
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
Whatever you choose to fantasize is fine with me.
I still wouldn't have any desire to stop/start tractor & baler several times in a minute.
If you desire to perform that task then carry on.
Eldon (WA)
Well-known Member
Why would I fantasize about you lying??
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
Eldon
I don't have a clue how you came up with your feeble idea that I lied. My guess is when things don't go your direction you attempt to change subject. Everything I stated is true.
I hope you have a wonderful day. Jim
Bruce from Can.
Well-known Member
- Location
- Woodville, Ontario, Canada
Your remarks border on silly. When the AC round
baler came along, most square balers were still
stationary. While the AC baler let the farmer take
his baler to the field. In the 1940’s when they hit the
market, most had no choice but loose hay. AC also
had pop up bale loaders to pick up bales. And I can
only guess that compared to forking loose hay, you
wouldn’t have found stopping to eject a bale such
big deal. They worked well during their time. And
you can’t change that fact, no matter how bored you
might get
baler came along, most square balers were still
stationary. While the AC baler let the farmer take
his baler to the field. In the 1940’s when they hit the
market, most had no choice but loose hay. AC also
had pop up bale loaders to pick up bales. And I can
only guess that compared to forking loose hay, you
wouldn’t have found stopping to eject a bale such
big deal. They worked well during their time. And
you can’t change that fact, no matter how bored you
might get
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
Bruce
As sometimes happens this thread has gone off track.
You're entitled to your opinion & like it or not I'm entitled to my opinion!!!
As I previously stated I wouldn't want to stop/start forward motion of tractor/baler every few seconds. As I stated if that invention was so great why was it's production so short lived???
It would be interesting to know how many bales per hour one could average bundling & average weight of the bales if rolling grass.
Jim
Kinda funny how much misinformation is out there in the roto VS square baler argument. The Roto Baler hit the market in 1947. But New Holland started production of a towed square baler in 1940. IH introduced a towed square baler in 1945. So myth one is busted. myth 2 is the fact that compared to the square baler the Roto Baler never sold well. Just New Holland sales alone in one year exceeded the total production of both runs of the Roto Baler. Heck total sales of Roto Balers was a meager 75,000 units. And that was back when there were 15 or so million farms. And only 75,000 (actually less because of repeat customers) farms had Roto Balers? Now does that mean that there were 14,925,000 farmers who were too stupid to buy a roto baler? Or does that mean that there were only 75,000 who could either A: only afford a roto baler or B: were gullible enough to own one? Heck IIRC New Holland sold more square balers in either 1952 or 53 than total roto baler sale from 1947 to 1960. SO there was an issue someplace that made the roto baler a 2nd cousin.
The actual issue at hand was the perception that square bales were more efficient both in labor and in storage. Most farms back in that day had at least some livestock. Weather it was for personal use or to market. And most farms needed to store that hay inside if possible. Made for a lot of labor which as someone pointed out farmers back then expected that. Steps in making and storing hay. 1, cutting, 2 raking , 3 baling, 4 stacking on a wagon either behind the baler or picking off the ground, 5 unloading, 6 stacking. The big guys back then hired help for that. Took a lot of manpower to put up enough hay in the upper regions of the US to feed 20-40 dairy cows or a couple hundred head of beef over winter.
The real funny part is neither New Holland nor AC invented those balers. IN both cases they bought the rights and then developed them into a marketable machine.
In the end the roto baler concept died in 1960 when the last one rolled off the line. You can still buy a new square baler for small squares. The round bale is still alive too but is really a different animal.
The actual issue at hand was the perception that square bales were more efficient both in labor and in storage. Most farms back in that day had at least some livestock. Weather it was for personal use or to market. And most farms needed to store that hay inside if possible. Made for a lot of labor which as someone pointed out farmers back then expected that. Steps in making and storing hay. 1, cutting, 2 raking , 3 baling, 4 stacking on a wagon either behind the baler or picking off the ground, 5 unloading, 6 stacking. The big guys back then hired help for that. Took a lot of manpower to put up enough hay in the upper regions of the US to feed 20-40 dairy cows or a couple hundred head of beef over winter.
The real funny part is neither New Holland nor AC invented those balers. IN both cases they bought the rights and then developed them into a marketable machine.
In the end the roto baler concept died in 1960 when the last one rolled off the line. You can still buy a new square baler for small squares. The round bale is still alive too but is really a different animal.
The way it was explained to me, and maybe it's not correct, but I remember my dad telling me the "theory" behind the small rounds was to bale them and leave them in the field, and then use those fields for bale grazing in the winter. It of course wasted hay, but also eliminated a lot of work. I still think they were a better idea in theory than in practice, which is of course the reason they've been obsolete for decades. Ironically, there are a couple manufacturers making mini small balers for hobby farmers, they come form overseas somewhere. I can't imagine why anyone would spend $8k on a mini round baler when they could buy a used square baler for under $1k, and have bales that are much easier to handle, move, and store. But I guess as long as it's not my money.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
The modern mini round balers are for "gentleman farmers" or "horse people" with a compact tractor and a few acres of their own. These folks think custom harvesters should work for free, and have had enough of being "shafted" year after year.
I believe good solid bales out of these machines weigh a couple hundred pounds, and they're quite a bit larger than a roto-bale. They're too big for a human to handle, but they're small enough that their little 25HP compact tractors can pick them up with a small bale spear.
I believe good solid bales out of these machines weigh a couple hundred pounds, and they're quite a bit larger than a roto-bale. They're too big for a human to handle, but they're small enough that their little 25HP compact tractors can pick them up with a small bale spear.
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
Rick
Thank you for providing information that my statements weren't as silly or incorrect as other posters stated.
Shown below is a partial list of early towed/automatic tying small sq balers built before & during the beginning of production AC roto-baler.
Small sq baler auto-tie production started several yrs before AC Roto-baler production
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Cows will go to the bales,we used to use a rear blade sometimes to make a path to the bales and make a path to water to make it easier on the cattle.The bales can be made up to almost 100 lbs with the AC baler and so tight can hardly get a hay hook in them so they keep real well.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
A fellow near me has a baler about like what you have pictured runs off tractor PTO makes a pretty decent bale think the baler was close to 15 grand,Yanmar makes a baler like that runs about
about 20 thousand$.
about 20 thousand$.
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
May I ask what was the diameter of these 100# rolls?
Didn't these AC Roto -baler utilize spring tension but no hyd tension to compress the hay?
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
(quoted from post at 07:36:11 10/12/20)
The ones I'm talking about make a 50-60 lb bale. They can be run off of a tractor PTO or a walk behind mower machine similar to a Gravely.
The clear advantage to that machine is it's the size of a washing machine vs. a typical small square baler which is the size of a car. You can keep it inside, lay a sheet of plywood on top, and call it a workbench on the 364 days you aren't using it.
Destroked 450
Well-known Member
- Location
- Harned, Ky
They can be adjusted to make bales from 14-21" dia
Yes they use spring tension that you adjust to make the bales tighter or looser.
Ours was set for 18-20" bales weighing 80-100 lbs
For us the advantage was after square baling first cutting we would roll second cutting and leave it lay, they shed water good so there was little spoilage when cattle were turned into the fields that winter.
This saved a lot of time and labor over hauling in and feeding out all squares, plus there was less manure to fork out of the barn come spring.
I've never considered the roto balers as a replacement to the small square, just a alternative to handling, storing and feeding all squares.
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