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Narrow front tractors

Less stable and less adaptable to heavier front end loads, like a loader or mounted equipment. Plus, no FWD, and more difficult to fit a larger flotation type tire on one, and a wide axle generally provides a smoother ride

Ben
 
(quoted from post at 07:04:50 10/01/20) Why are narrow front (tricycle) tractors no longer in production? Ellis
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There is a perception that wide front tractors are more stable and "safer," but we also believe that bats are blind and dogs sweat through their tongues too... among other lies and fabrications.

Wide fronts definitely ride better, and most tractors have MFWD/MFWA now anyway.
 
As Double07 said, the death of mounted corn pickers as well as front-mount cultivators are primary reasons why narrow fronts went away. Also, as tractors got larger it became difficult to fit big enough tires under the nose of the tractor to support the weight, especially when 30" rows became more popular.
 
As said not having a wide front to change when going to cultivation was a big reason NF tractors were popular.On the safety issue I've run NF tractors on hills/mountain land all my life with no problem,if a person can't safely operate a NF they probably shouldn't be operating any tractor.
 
barnyard is right. All tractors have what is called "3 point suspension".Meaning 3 points of support. Only thing is a wide will have the single point about 2 ft
higher than a narrow. They all tip. The wide just gets to lean a bit more before it tips.I learned about '3 point suspension' when I had to attend a class to
become a 'certified' forklift operator in a factory.
 
Bingo! TF, you nailed it.If it's too steep for a narrow,it's too steep for a wide too.Some folks cant pour water out of a boot if the instructions were on the heel.
 
NFE required equipment such as corn pickers and cultivators pretty much no longer used. In areas such as this and when small dairies were prevalent NFE often struggled more in muddy conditions versus WFE equipped tractors. Less desirable to develop NFE as a MFWD unit.
 
Besides using mounted implements narrow front end tractors would turn shorter. This was important when planters were 4 rows or less, grain drills were 12 ft or less, etc and fields were small. As equipment grew there was a lot less need for a short turning tractor.
 
While not an answer to Ellis' question, I wanted to comment that I have a NFE tractor (1962 model). I also have "narrow" barns/sheds that I pull wagons and equipment in and out of. My NFE is so manueverable compared to WFE tractors I have no intention of getting rid of it or swapping out the NFE for a WFE. I can also park the NFE tractor in places where I cant get the WFE ones to go.
 
My issue is the NF tractors are too small to move the equipment around as it has gotten larger, so the point of having one to move wagons is mute.
 
Lots of good answers below but I will say my narrow front 2510 and 4020 will be the last two that will ever leave this farm. As I get older I hate to back a wagon anywhere without my narrow front tractors and I still have a mounted picker in the shed. Tom
 
Narrow fronts all tipped over around here. Turning across slope going downhill they were terrible. Folks would have the rear tires out about 10 ft wide trying to keep them from flipping. Same tractor models with
wfe's still running around and have never flopped since the pivot is up so much higher above the ground.
 
This is plain bad advice. Narrow fronts are terrible on hillsides. An inexperienced operator can pretty safely work a wfe on a slope, nfe the day ends pretty early in a rollover without significant instructions and caution for the operator.

I get it, old guys that have lots of seat time can work their way up to operating on hillsides but there is very little margin when driving a nfe down steep hills and needing to turn on that slope before getting to a flat area compared to it being a regular activity without much stress on a wfe.
 
(quoted from post at 13:31:32 10/01/20) This is plain bad advice. Narrow fronts are terrible on hillsides. An inexperienced operator can pretty safely work a wfe on a slope, nfe the day ends pretty early in a rollover without significant instructions and caution for the operator.

I get it, old guys that have lots of seat time can work their way up to operating on hillsides but there is very little margin when driving a nfe down steep hills and needing to turn on that slope before getting to a flat area compared to it being a regular activity without much stress on a wfe.
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ust a wandering question, but how much row-cropping & cultivating is being done today?
 
The Allis C is a different tractor from the Allis B. The Allis B is narrower. Rear wheel tread on the C starts where B rear wheel tread leaves off. 40"- 52" inch on the B whereas the C's narrowest rear tread setting is 52" and goes all the way out to 80". Two completely different tractors.
 
I'm glad we have so many tractor operators here capable of tipping over WFE tractors, and scared to run NFE tractors. Ground I grew up on was hilly, and even with loaders on NFE tractors I never once came close to tipping a tractor.
I've seen several 1456's at IH Mile of RED POWER plow days. When I worked for the BTO I much rather liked to plow with the NFE 4020 than the 4320 with ROPS cab with inoperative AC and WFE. We pulled the exact same F-145 5-14 plow in the same gear, 5th, with both tractors.
Yep the end of mounted corn pickers, frt mounted cultivators, all reasons why nobody bought NFE tractors anymore. When I ordered tire, wheels, & rims at FARMALL We used 7.5Lx15 frt tires on every NFE tractor, so I knew exactly how many and when we built NFE tractors,we would only build 786, 886, 986, H186's. NO 1086, 1486, or 1586's. BUT the same parts we put on a 786 would fit the 3 bigger tractors, and people have built them.
The 4010 Dad bought had WFE, it would not turn tight at all, with the frt mounted #400 cultivator I took 4 38 inch rows, and could not turn near sharp enough to take the next 4 rows, had to skip r and take rows 5 thru 8. A 6-30 cultivator probably wouldn't have taken the next 6 rows either. Other than that it was O-K to cultivate with. I learned by accident to get on/off the right side, first the PTO lever when disengaged reached out and grabbed me several times, and the lift bar from 3-pt rockshaft to left front half of cultivator was a tripping hazard 4 inches off the platform, just easier on/off the right.
The Deere's not turning tight wasn't just a WFE thing, We used a 3020 gas NFE for the 4-H tractor driving contests, the guy that organized them was an avid IH guy, and he borrowed the same 3020 because it wouldn't turn sharp, absolutely would not pivot turn, He would slide the frt end when he demonstrated that it was possible to complete the manuver, pulling the 2 wheel cart or 4-wheel wagon out and backing in the other side of the course.
 
Come to idaho I’ll be glad to show you how tight a John Deere turns . Wont turn tight? Maybe comparing a 70 hp tractor to a 25 hp lawn mower with a single front wheel
 
Why is it i can come up a 7 foot sickle swath and go right down the next 7 foot with a 4020 raking but you cant make a four row cultivator do it ?
 
Flat landers are funny as they beat their chests about hills flatter than most driveways
cvphoto57931.png
 
Jds do turn shorter than some. My old 400 wont turn with a 4 row planter with the wide front on but will easy with the narrow front. The later cases were improved some but that's one thing I notice when I drive other brands is how much shorter they turn.
 
I wonder why guess they figured you didnt need to turn that short . Had a 7140 magnum was a good tractor but was hard to turn especially on potato rows
 
I'll second that,The couple of JDs that I have driven,turned very short compared to the IHs I am used to operating.

Rock
 
First the 4020 set for 38 inch rows will not turn as short as one set for 30 inch rows. As well as no other tractor with a wide front will be the same. As for the wide and narrow front has been hashed here so much they all tipped over.
 
I think narrow front probably gets more negative press than maybe it deserves however I almost found our today what it was like roll one.
 
According to Tractor data which is not always accurate the 4020 has a longer wheel base than an 806 by 6.5 inches. I was surprised by that. I always though by driving and looking at them the 4020 was shorter. I know I could always turn an anhydrous toolbar and nurse tank on 8 30 inch rows fine with the wide front. Never had to turn only the H on 4 rows cultivating. And Drilling around the field with wheat and oats then plant the corners at the end it turned fine for planting with a 10 foot drill. Fo long geared get a 7140 or those models. If the wheels are dished out it will turn shorter but not fit 30 inch rows. They look funny also that way.
 
No, no. no. You were implying that the Allis B and C were identical tractors except for the front end on one being wide and on the other being narrow. Admit that you made an error, except that I don't think you, in your mindless mind, can do.
 
Probably the biggest reason they went away is it cost more to manufacture a narrow front tractor next to the farmers do not want narrows for serious farming now. A lot more were mentioned below about tires and weight carrying capacity. The last new generation Deere that a farmer showed me a few years ago had independent front axles on four wheel drive so all four stayed on the ground at all time even when the back was not level, took a lot to get one up. I had a tractor that the rear tires(15.5X38) are smaller than the new fronts on some. I have run both but will tell you a wide front is more secure on hillsides against all the naysayers here. The only tractor I come close to tipping(had a back wheel 8-10 inches off the ground) was a 460 with a narrow and a 2001 loader on it, ran over a pocket gopher mound. My uncle tipped a Farmall 340 narrow over twice. Plowing with a narrow lifts the front several inches more than a wide. I have planted corn on hill sides you needed to drive on the last row you planted to get the rest uphill far enough. We mowed road ditches for hay every year from the 60s into the 90 when we had cattle. Something's you had to do if you wanted to keep farming, but you had to be careful. Like I said manufacturing costs and lack of need made them quit, just like making 2 row equipment.
 
I would say a NFE ttractor is more prone to tipping over but it is primarily because their center of gravity is so much higher.
Compare a typical 30 hp nfe to a Ford 600 or comparable Ferguson of that era and you can see why.
 
ive cultivated several thousand acres with a WFE 4020 and 4010 front mount 4 38 rows and always could turn into the next four without brakes ...a narrow front 3010 will spin on. a dime mowing hay.
 
wfe is lot better trying to feed hay with the mud in winter and spring. I broke spindle on JD 730 when front hung up on frozen rut.
 
I never implied anything just pointed out that the type of front wasn't what necessarily determined how stable a tractor is on a hill.And really why do you find the need to hand out personal insults?
 


Over 53 years I have been around three near rollovers, one where I was the driver. All three were wide front tractors, and there were NFE tractors on the farms at the time too. Individual's experience means very very little. It is called anecdotal evidence. You could have 100 people give personal testimony on one side of any dispute and five on the other yet have scientific test prove that the five are correct, using documented evidence from a ten thousand unit sample.
 
Fine except tractors don't roll over by themselves,like guns don't go around looking for people to shoot.Human element is the key usually with rollovers its lack of attention/judgement such as looking for a hole or something to run over on the high side of a hill,raising something up too high with a loader,etc etc.
That is why some people can operate them for years under adverse conditions with no problems and some people have problems.The poorer operators are fewer in number to post about it because of natural selection.
 

Here in NH woodchucks dig new holes pretty much every year and in heavy foliage the resulting piles and depressions aren't visible from a tractor seat.
 
These big 300 horsepower tractors look funny setup for 30 inches rows. I guess i can measure the 4020 and see what it’s length is . The ih tractors always loooked taller to me than the John Deere
 
Raising the pivot point in the front makes the roll moment on a wide front end much smaller meaning the rear end doesn't have to counteract such a tipping force. The other big issue is wide front with the pivot distributes the load between the two front tires. It's much easier to slide a wide front end on a soft hillside than a narrow front. Sliding is preferred "failure" to rolling.

See the same thing with people that love three wheelers, defending them to no end. They sure are a lot of fun and handy, and with experience can be driven safely but they also absolutely do flip a lot easier than four wheelers and need some more respect.
 
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