Staring a diesel with ether

chas036 · Sep 25, 2020

If you have to use ether to start an older diesel tractor, what kind of problem does that indicate?

tomstractorsandtoys · Sep 25, 2020

Poor batteries, poor cables,weak starter,low compression due to wear or an improper valve job.I knew of a Deere 2510 that had a fresh overhaul and they took the engine head to an auto parts store for a cheap valve job that would not start below 50 without either. How much blowby out the engine crankcase vent does it have when warm? That tells alot about engine wear. Tom

Billy Shafer · Sep 25, 2020

From what I have found.
Cold engine
Weak compression.
Low battery
Bad fuel.

To much ether can do more damage than good. DO NOT use ether with glow plugs.

tomturkey · Sep 25, 2020

what I've discovered on my diesel is that the fuel/accelerator handle does indeed have a sweetspot. It will take you a bit to discover what that position is. Another caution passed on to me concerning using ether, do not use it until you have cranked and have white smoke coming from the exhaust and then only a sniff, and never use it on a engine that has been running and is at operating temp. Ether has doomed a lot of engines because of misuse. my .02 worth gobble

4520BW · Sep 25, 2020

I'll add bad injectors or injection pump.

jon f mn · Sep 25, 2020

Depends on the engine. With cases the older ones need some when temps drop below freezing and that's not an issue with those. Anything from the 70 series and newer that needs either at most any temp is an indication of a tired engine. Some brands and models are more needy in that regard than others. As said, if you get the engine cranking til you get smoke then add the minimum needed it shouldn't hurt anything. And never use it on an engine with glow plugs.

derwen1959 · Sep 25, 2020

It's not only older well used diesels that need ether as there is ether kit available to fit JD 2040 which we used to own and probably other models as well for use in very
cold climates . This is stated in handbook

dpendzic · Sep 25, 2020

is that with the glow plugs hot only? If they are cold is it ok?

Texasmark1 · Sep 25, 2020

I bought a long sought after Ford 3000 one day in "April in Texas". My first diesel but found it odd that the sales guy had to hit it with a squirt of diesel to get it to light off. Call it love is blind if you wish. After I tried se veral tricks amounting to $600 or so, I finally reconciled myself to the necessity of an inframe. When I pulled the pistons, I could see why. The top ½ of the pistons were essentially missing. PO had run it in a dirty environment apparently while the intake manifold rubber hose to the air filter was missing....for several thousand hours.

In short, low compression and or slow cranking speeds are two prime causes and my Ford suffered from both. That was some 20+ years ago and just last couple of weeks, I had to have the injecton pump repaired. Found a guy in Nebraska that did it for $357 including shipping. Other than a battery and brake shoes, set of tires when I bought it, no problems in all that time.

Texasmark1 · Sep 25, 2020

Oh, lest I not forget......a new intake manifold hose and a couple of clamps.

Stephen Newell · Sep 25, 2020

I wouldn't be using either on a diesel engine. I did it once and the engine made an awful racket so I didn't do it again. Later I found out it shouldn't be done.

David G · Sep 25, 2020

Using ether to start an engine in a very cold climate is not abnormal. It needs to be done in moderation, never with glow plugs and never when engine is warm. I think using ether when it should not be needed is a bad idea.

Donaldinky · Sep 25, 2020

Old diesel mechanic told me to used two stroke gas mix heavy with oil. Never had trouble. I hope this is not a myth. I only used it when it's real cold.

dpendzic · Sep 25, 2020

My Cat D3B operators manual says to give it a 3 sec blast of either

paul · Sep 25, 2020

I just picked up 4 cans of either.

It’s a way of life up here in the cold regions over winter.

You don’t want to use much, just a few squirts, a short squirt. The fella that chattered his engine and it made bad noises, he used too much. Just a little shot.

Old battery corroded wires old starter old gen/alternator that makes a weak slow spinning starter, any of this can make a diesel hard to start and using either will be needed. Get these fixed.....

Cold weather. Diesel doesn’t vaporize when it’s that cold.

Bad glow plugs. Making the engine cold, fix.

A fuel/air leak that the injectors aren’t getting fuel right away when it sits a long time. Fix.

Loose tired worn out engine, doesn’t make compression. Need to have good compression to vaporize the diesel. This is the dreaded big overhaul to fix....

Paul

jaoneill · Sep 25, 2020

My Allis 6070 came from the factory with a button on the dash and brakes under the hood for a can of ether. Never have used it; I am a firm believer in block heaters when it's cold and/or glow plugs when it's cool.

rustred · Sep 25, 2020

maybe give some details on what engine. over loading with starting fluid is definitly bad. but on some engines no way they will start with out help!but there is other ways also. like sucking a flame in the intake , using a gas rag, wd40.

tractorguy2 · Sep 25, 2020

I have dads 1957 WD45 diesel. It originally used two six volt batteries with a manifold heater to start. Dad bought it in 1974 to use on his square baler. Only used in summer months dad used one 12 battery. The manifold heater will drain one battery quickly. So ever since 1974 we have used either to start the WD45 without a single problem.

We have not touched the injector pump, the injectors or even had the head off since dad bought it 46 years a go.

jon f mn · Sep 25, 2020

I would imagine if they are cold it would be ok.

ramblineagle · Sep 25, 2020

Tractorguy, if the manifold heater on your wd45d drains the battery quickly, the battery must be weak or too small. The manifold heater on my wd45d does not drain the battery down when I use it, I installed a 950 cca battery several years ago. Watched a guy blow the head of his IHC tractor one time using either to start it.

Stephen Newell · Sep 26, 2020

It's a Kubota D750, 13hp 3 cylinder engine. If I remember right I just gave it one squirt of either. I don't believe I overloaded it. It died about as soon as it fired up but after repeated tries got it running. I believe the problem was the diesel in it was a little old. It starts alright now.

Determined · Sep 26, 2020

(quoted from post at 12:47:41 09/25/20) If you have to use ether to start an older diesel tractor, what kind of problem does that indicate?

A few more to add to the list;

-Faulty lift pump or line leak allowing air into system.

-External load such as hydraulic pump slowing down cranking speed.

-The need for a valve adjustment.

-Intake heater or glow plugs not functioning properly if so equipped.

-Engine oil too heavy for the ambient temperature.

-Not using the block heater in cold weather or heater is not working properly.

buickanddeere · Sep 26, 2020

As previously stated .
Many diesel starting problems are due to slow cranking RPM. This is due to a cheapo undersized battery , small or corroded cables , a worn starter or under sized starter .
Most engines can have an upsized starter bolted on.
The other problem is operators that fail to understand at at near freezing temps and lower . A coolant preheater is required .

sotxbill · Sep 26, 2020

If used correctly, NO.. there is NOT a problem using ether to start a diesel engine. Lots of tractors came from the factory with ether starting aids, however, most of them were wired so they could only be used while CRANKING the tractor and some had a very fine jet in the tubing to make sure you did not put TOO much in.

Correctly used is better than cranking for 10 minutes, burning up starters, ruining batteries, and just getting the cattle fed in the middle of winter.

Some tractors have NO glow plugs and using only cranking compression heat to fire. Then due to the cold cyl and head, the heat sink effect means that the whole upper combustion chamber must slowly be heated up to combustion temperature by very very long cranking cycles. Even a propane torch on the intake manifold is better than 10 minutes of cranking.

My question is.... why in the world would you NOT use ether in the correct situation??????

Ether is like a gun or a car jack.. some use it correctly and others use it incorrectly.

Yes. a warm building, a block heater, and passonate wife when cold out,,,,, are all good but sometimes not available.

Some are too stupid and just need to buy a new $95,000 tractor.

buickanddeere · Sep 26, 2020

(quoted from post at 10:23:26 09/26/20)
If used correctly, NO.. there is NOT a problem using ether to start a diesel engine. Lots of tractors came from the factory with ether starting aids, however, most of them were wired so they could only be used while CRANKING the tractor and some had a very fine jet in the tubing to make sure you did not put TOO much in.

Correctly used is better than cranking for 10 minutes, burning up starters, ruining batteries, and just getting the cattle fed in the middle of winter.

Some tractors have NO glow plugs and using only cranking compression heat to fire. Then due to the cold cyl and head, the heat sink effect means that the whole upper combustion chamber must slowly be heated up to combustion temperature by very very long cranking cycles. Even a propane torch on the intake manifold is better than 10 minutes of cranking.

My question is.... why in the world would you NOT use ether in the correct situation??????

Ether is like a gun or a car jack.. some use it correctly and others use it incorrectly.

Yes. a warm building, a block heater, and passonate wife when cold out,,,,, are all good but sometimes not available.

Some are too stupid and just need to buy a new $95,000 tractor.

Too many people are too stupid and are quick to reach for the ether can first and consider other options later.
How much does broken rings and piston lands cost vs keeping the battery cables, starter and block heater in order ?

Bruce(OR) · Sep 26, 2020

I have a 60's 881 Diesel. It runs about a 15:1 comp. The owners manual says I can use ether to start it. It also say's to wait 15 minutes if activating the glow plugs. Ether might also be dependent upon your comp ratio. I also have a '94 7.3 idi that a PO used ether on. Bent two push rods. Ether on a diesel generally might not be a good idea. Cold climate? Cycle the glow plugs twice.

Oliver 500 Wa · Sep 26, 2020

I use my heat gun to blow hot air into the aircleaner inlet when winter starting my tractor. It probably cuts the start cranking time by 2/3rds.

The tractor has a little cotton blob on the end of a plug that screws into the air filter inlet for use with ether. As described in the operator manual one is supposed to wet the cotton with ether and screw it into pace then crank the engine. I've never used it and probably never will.

Staring a diesel with ether

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