gas vs diesel

Hoofer B

Well-known Member
Just curious. Back in the 70's or even later, Why would a farmer want a mid size tractor run on gas? For example, an 870 Case. Not huge in todays standards, but back when they were new it was big enough. Wouldnt you want a diesel??? Price ???
 
Fuel may have been cheap overall, but diesel was always cheaper. Diesel tractors cost more, and many people were afraid of cold weather operation of diesel engines and more expensive repairs.
 
If everything in your farming life was running on gasoline, and you never had a diesel of any kind, purchasing a gas tractor made sense. Today diesel fuel is clearly more expensive than gasoline. (a refining expense issue, not price gouging) Many are purchasing gasoline powered trucks for that reason today. Jim
 
The 7/8/970 had to be about the last gas tractors made. Anyone know when and what brand was last?
 
Dairy farmer I knew in the late '70's got terrible headaches from diesel exhaust, so had all gas tractors. One day he showed me his new IH tractor- small one, maybe a 284, or something like that. Said that the IH dealer, who knew of his problem with diesels, told him he better snap it up, because the factory had told him this was the last gas tractor he would be getting, forever. His 8n scraper tractor was about done for, so he bought it.

Diesel has been cheaper than gas here for awhile, even with the road tax added. Farm diesel would be about 50 cents cheaper, or 20 cents with no road tax on either.
 
Having lived it, I can attest to farmers who have nothing but gas tractors not wanting the added hassle and expense of maintaining a second bulk fuel tank, not knowing how to fix the tractor when it breaks down, and starting issues in the extreme cold.

It was believed that starting a diesel in cold weather was "extremely hard" on the engine, even if you plugged in the block heater ahead of time. "Common knowledge" of the time was "you can't run a diesel in the winter." The dealer's head mechanic would tell you this to your face.
 
They were familiar with the maintinence on a gas engine, a diesel you had to pay someone to work on.

The hassle of a new fuel tank and keeping that up.

It was a bigger deal than you think back then in those times. We were more self sufficient.

Of course once you switched, diesel was so much cheaper and you used so much less per acre. Duh!

Paul
 
You could get an 1850 Oliver too. Were any of those after 73? You could get the cases til at least 73.
 
As farms became larger, so did tractors. A large gasoline engine of that day burned a lot more fuel than a diesel engine of equivalent size. Diesel engines of that day were much more efficient than their gasoline burning counterparts. 50 years of research and development to make gasoline engines more efficient has turned the tables. But, in that day, as an example, a John Deere 720 burning gas burned 5 gallons of gasoline per hour at rated pto load. A 720 burning diesel went through 3 gallons of less expensive diesel fuel per hour at rated pto load. In 5000 hours of use, that would amount to a saving of 10000 gallons of the more expensive gasoline fuel. One could just about pay for the whole tractor on fuel savings alone.
 
A lot of gasoline tractors were sold to old pharts who grew up with gas tractors and had no desire to switch. Not much different than today; geezers are always suspicious of "new" technology.
 
Up in MI they would buy a gas tractor for winter work. A lot of farmers had problems starting diesels in the winter. 25* below even today they have problems starting.
 
MF 1100 gas had the basically same motor as the Oliver 99 6 cylinders without the sleeves installed,makes a good Oliver pulling motor pretty rare.Think it was a true Waukesha built motor not Oliver built.
 
Allis Chalmers 180 tractors were built thru 1973 and some of those were gas.I have one.Makes sense 1973 would be the end of gasoline tractors with the oil embargo/gasoline shortage thing going at that time,plus the price of gas went up.
 
My late father in law farmed right up until the end with gassers - even after most of the neighbors went to diesel. His last tractor purchase (and his final his "big" tractor) was an Oliver 1850 in about 1970.

His reasons for sticking to gas:

1 - He was intimately familiar with gas engines. He was a teenager when his father bought his first tractor (an F20) and retired the team. There was no problem with a gas engine he could not diagnose and fix himself.

2 - Diesel fuel injection systems were mysterious and downright scary to him. Especially when dealers got talking about fuel cleaniness, extremely close tolerances, etc.

3 - He had a 1,500 gallon underground gasoline tank and pump. Switching to diesel would have required a 2nd fuel tank (had to keep gasoline to fuel the farm trucks, combine, etc). It also carried the risk of a hired person putting the wrong fuel into a machine.

4 - Tales of neighbors' inability to start their diesels in extreme cold scared him. Especially since his well-maintained gassers would always started, even down to -20 temps when even his car wouldn't.

For him the extra cost for the diesel option on a new tractor simply was not worth the added expense and perceived headaches. And in his mind it did not didn't overcome the diesel's fuel economy advantage.

Incidentally my son now has the old 1850. He uses it sparingly on account of it's thirst for gas. But it's still his "go to" tractor for snowplowing.
 
I have heard rumors that some manufacturers may go back to gas for compact utility tractors. Mainly because it's easier to meet emission standards. Many of them are owned by non-farmers that don't have diesel tanks to fill from, so gas would be easier for them. We have a JD 4600 that we just love, but if it was gas that would be OK too. It starts easily well below zero F but I always plug it in for a few hours first. We probably don't burn over 50 gallons of diesel a year. I grew up around diesels so I understand them and take all the necessary precautions and have had zero problems.
 
Well back when they were NEW FARM GAS was ONLY a couple cents more per gallon . THey would start easy on cold days , Ease of taking care of them , they cost less to buy . First diesels to show up at my uncles was in 59 for the first one and the second one came in the spring of 60 , the 560 was first then the 460 . My first was a gas M then a 450 Diesel then a 460 gas ( hated that tractor ) then it was a late model 706 gasser and farmed with it for a long time , even my combine was gas . A lot of my friends had gassers till they once again changed the gas and this has caused engine failures to the point there is no sense in throwing good money after bad . While we could get the gas to run them on they were great and one could buy two gassers for the price of one diesel and sometimes three or four . Many times i would buy four or more 706 gassers for under a grand a piece . Sometimes they may need a new T/A and clutch along with the charging system fixed and ya had a good mid sized chore tractor that would go in all weather conditions . Sold a bunch of them to guys that ran small dairy farms . They needed something that would fire up and grind feed in the winter or haul manure twice a day . In the spring they would pull a six row planter mow hay run a baler or pull heavy wagons . We would go thru around 300-400 gallon a year .Now today we run and 806 Diesel for the same work load and we burn 300-400 gallon a year and OH gee most times we can get gas for less if we could get the gas to run them on .
 

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The subject of "propane" ought to be mentioned also. Not ever really big in my area, but where my FIL farmed down in Texas, propane was a throwaway product, it was cheap and there were a fair amount of them purchased there. I have a LP Oliver Super 88.
 
I've heard the same thing.

https://www.thecea.org.uk/kubotas-alternative-fuel-engines-offer-extended-choice-to-original-equipment-manufacturers/
 
Growing up diesel was half the price of gas. First diesel tractors to come to the farm was in 1969. A new IH 756 and a IH 544 hydro utility.
 

My FIL originally had gas tractors, but switched in the early 60's to diesel for lower price, improved fuel consumption, and longevity of the motor. Now, everything is diesel except for a small cub that is used in the garden (one of the original gassers). My understanding is the price of gas vs diesel did the flip flop when the military switched to all diesel, putting a strain on the production system. The distillation columns had to be redesigned for a larger fraction of diesel to be extracted. Since there have been no new refineries built since the 60's, the very expensive rework to the existing refineries was reflected in the price of diesel. My uncle worked for the Ashland Oil refinery in Cattletsburg, Ky. That it where I got this information. Cannot confirm the accuracy, but know that extensive rework was made in that facility to increase the production of diesel.
 
We still have both. For large major HP we have diesel..but we still have an 8n NAA 2000 wd 3020 that are all gas. The 3020 has an F-11 on it.. its nice to have a loader that starts easy all winter long.
 
Most, but not all farmers in the 60's and 70's went through the depression. Those guys were TIGHT!!!! A diesel tractor cost more than a gas. 60's and 70's diesels didn't start well in cold weather. Had to be plugged in which raised the electric bill! Next they would have to buy another fuel barrel. My dad had a tractor repair business in the 70's. Nearly all his customers only had one diesel. It was the summer fallow tractor. The planting, cultivating, hay mowing/ raking tractor was always gas.
Grandpa had one diesel on the farm in 1974. It was a brand new Oliver 1855. The other two tractors on his farm were gas. A 1941 farmall H and a 1948 farmall M.
Dad bought his first diesel in 1974 also. it was a 1957 Allis WD45 diesel. Dads other two tractors were a 1947 John deere A. And a 1949 farmall M. In 1978 dad bought a new six row planter and cultivator to replace the 4 row lister. For the planter dad bought a 1966 Farmall 706 diesel. it belonged to one of his customers that was retiring.

Several guys here ran gasoline combines well into the late 90's.
 
Some years ago I saw an article about some 100+ horse JD's from the early 80's that still had gas engine as an option. I can not remember what model it was. Only six or ten people opted for the gas engine.

It looked about like a 4040 or 4240, something like that.
 
There is always a crowd that doesn't like new technology. If you polled people on this site, how many have a tractor with electronics or computer controlled fuel injection? That plus the need to start in the winter without the worry of gelled fuel or being plugged in all night meant gasoline still had its place. The early 70's energy crisis happened about the same time gas tractors disappeared, too. Deere left gas tractor production (at least in larger models) in 1973. The 4230 was the largest, and it was only offered one year- 1973. I think the 4030 was the same, but they made a few more (2-300 vs 32 4230's).
 
We had a Caterpillar diesel from the late 30's. It did all the heavy tillage work while the H did the planting. Then in the early 60's dad bought a Gleaner E combine with a gasser. Then in the late 60's he bought an 830 Case gasser. He had a few options brought out to try. Those were a WD45 diesel and an 930 diesel. It was a wet summer and putting up hay we left ruts in fields. The local Ih dealer had a 656 diesel The diesels were a $1000.00 more and the combine was about the same horse as the 830 Case so he got a gas since he could cut all day with the combine on less than 30 gallon which was the tank size. I will never forget that 830 was blowing hay in the barn with a MC Kee chopper first day he started about 11:00AM by 1:00 PM it ran out of fuel. They looked all over to see what the problem was. Checked tank and it was empty. So called the dealer and they weaned it some. It now ran on about 30 gallon a day. He was much happier then. I liked the 930 diesel it had power and would pull the chopper and wagone through the mud without getting stuck. Far as I'm concerned a gas engine is just an expensive boat anchor. I've never liked them nor would if avoidable buy them. My first tractor was an 806 diesel and still have it. Still have the H and the D-4 cat too. 830 gas found a new home in the 80's.
 
As far as I can remember, we've always ran gassers. At least I have, anyway. Dad finally broke down and bought a Deutz loader tractor a couple years ago. It starts ok in the winter, but that usually because he keeps it parked on a hill and rolls it.

Going back, I think if I had been farming in the "good old days" I'd have stayed with the gas burners, too. The main reason would have to be because I can't stand the smell of diesel; it gives me a headache. Secondly, I can work on a gas; diesel not so much. And, my gas burners start mighty good when it's 5 degrees out. Dads Deutz don't care for the cold, same as a lot of other guy's NH's and JD's locally. Finally, if I already had a gas tractor (or two, like I do now) I'd hate to have to have something that used different fuel. Just too much hassle.

That being said, it looks like I'm going to finally have to make the switch. Been looking for a small loader tractor, just enough to move 4x5 round bales and fix the driveway, etc. Unfortunately, finding a gas tractor with a loader in this area is proving somewhat difficult. They evidently have all gone to Mexico, or the scrap yard. So I guess if I really want a loader tractor, I'll either have to wait on a gas burner, or "settle" for a diesel. My preference would be to stay with gas, for the reasons I stated.

Mac
 

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