Points help

grandpa Love · Aug 16, 2020

I'm sure I know bit I'm frazzled. Massey loader tractor. Got power to points. But they won't spark when they open and close . I can stick a small screw driver in there and it sparks across.....grrrrrrrrr. Newer points. Tractor ran last Tues. Unloaded truck with it. Cut it off to chat with truck driver and then wouldn't start. Been sitting waiting for us to fix it. Help?

David G · Aug 16, 2020

U sure they are closing?

grandpa Love · Aug 16, 2020

They appear to be. Had to work a bit to open them when I cleaned them..

old · Aug 16, 2020

If you don't get a small spark at the point when you open them by hand then the points are dirty and need to be cleaned up. If your lucky taking the flap off the box the points came in will do it. If not then emery cloth fine grit then the box flap to clean what is left behind my the emery cloth. You should have said something about that when we where talking on the phone yesterday

Papaw8 · Aug 16, 2020

The screwdriver is probably sparking between the movable point arm and ground. Pull the movable point open without letting screwdriver touch anything else and if still no spark means dirty points.

Dean · Aug 16, 2020

Very common these days because the quality of contact sets is abysmal.

Burnishing the contacts with an IBM card (remember those?) or piece of brown paper bag may help until next time but the problem will return.

Do not use a point file.

Dean

Gambles · Aug 16, 2020

One of the best tools to troubleshoot ignition points is the $5 test light available from just about any auto parts store. Attach it to the "hot" side of your points and crank the motor over. If the test light goes off and on, your points are making and breaking ignition current. If, during cranking, the light stays on or stays off, your ignition system is not correct. It could be a bad set of points, incorrectly set points or even a bad condenser. One of those "used to be free" Horror Freight volt meters can also be worthy of the price.
The next best tool to set the points correctly is an old dwell meter. Dwell is the amount of degrees (by circular standards) that the points are closed.
As mentioned, few companies make a good set of points or condensers any more.

John T · Aug 16, 2020

Grandpa, instead of guessing or throwing parts at it, if you work through my Ignition Troubleshooting Procedure linked below it can help find the cause of ignition failures. The most common causes are POINTS that are burned or pitted or not gapped properly CHECK THOSE FIRST.

http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=farmall&th=5745

John T
John Ts Ignition Troubleshooting

UncleTom · Aug 16, 2020

What David G said.

fixerupper · Aug 16, 2020

With the points COSED touch the screwdriver in between the movable arm and part that has the stationary point on the contact end of the points right where the points contact. If it sparks the points are not making contact while they are closed. You know what do do from there on.

old · Aug 16, 2020

What I have said I have done hundreds of times and worked every time period

Dean · Aug 16, 2020

Bingo.

VERY common these days.

Readily available contact sets are not worth bringing home.

If you still have some good quality contact sets from decades past keep them and do not let anyone with a point file near them.

Dean

grandpa Love · Aug 16, 2020

John T, we haven't started swapping parts. We bought the tractor several months ago. Was missing points, plug wires, rotor, coil and condenser. We bought all those parts and had it running good. Dump cylinders were leaking terrible, had them rebuilt. Fired it right up Tues, unloaded a truck with the forks. When we turned it off to chat with truck driver, it wouldn't start back up. Carb was pouring fuel out so we cleaned it and set float. Still wouldn't start. That's why we started troubleshooting. I don't think I did but I could have left key on while chatting...could have. Also trying to start it Tues the switch started smoking badly. Got a new one to put on shortly. Test light blinks while cranking when holding it on moving part of points. Can see or hear a spark.

John T · Aug 16, 2020

Grandpa "Test light blinks while cranking when holding it on moving part of points'

Thats a GOOD sign. The lamp there on the coils low (to points) side causing a lamp to flash ON (points open) and OFF (points closed) means they are at least opening and closing and making decent contact otherwise it wouldn't go off when they are closed. If the points and condensor are okay and coil current is flowing and being interrupted (when points open) the coil may be at fault or else theres a cap and rotor problem if coil is firing okay but its NOT being distributed to the plugs ???? See if theres a spark out the coils top HV tower (use coil wire to 1/4 to ground) and if so there inspect the dist cap and rotor etc, maybe its a cap or rotor problem ????? even moisture inside there ??

John T

grandpa Love · Aug 16, 2020

John T. Wife says the coil we put on was a Used one off the shelf in the barn. She says we took it off another tractor for a reason!! Lol. Maybe I should go get a new one? But if its bad would I still get power to the points? That is throwing me off.

RobCons · Aug 16, 2020

Pull a plug and see if it has spark.

grandpa Love · Aug 16, 2020

Robcons, that's too easy! Lol. Why
didn't I think of that??? I said I was
frazzled!!

old · Aug 16, 2020

A bad coil can go bad in more then one way. It can short out and be bad or it can burn up and be open. Pull the center wire out of the distributor and spin it over while holding the wire about a 1/4 inch from the block and watch for spark. If you have a good blue/white spark there then check at the plug wires for the same type of spark that jumps a 1/4 inch or more. If you have that then pull the drain plug out of the bottom of the carb and make sure you have a good flow of gas that will fill a pint jar in less then 3 minutes. If you have those pull the air cleaner tube off and hold you hand over the air intake of the carb and spin it over and make sure you get gas on your hand and a good suction. It may even try to fire up if you do that

D7fever · Aug 16, 2020

slide a $100 bill thru the points a few times, it will clean up any dust etc between them, I always do that when putting in new points or filing them.

John T · Aug 16, 2020

You ask " But if its bad would I still get power to the points?"

The answer is YES you could still get power to points even with a bad coil, but it depends on whats bad

1) if the coils LV Primary winding (between little + and - terminals) is open then NO you would NOT get power to points

2) HOWEVER there are other bad coil problems such as

a) The other HV Secondary winding is open (can still get power to points but no spark)

b) The coil is bad and suffers from High Voltage Breakdown, can still get power to points BUT NO SPARK

3) The only thing getting power to the points tells you IS THE LV PRIMARY WINDING IS CONDUCTIVE bet there are other coil problems that can prevent a spark

Does that answer your question ????

John T

db4600 · Aug 16, 2020

I’ve never been able to get a $100 bill through, but used a $1 bill hundreds of times.....

Points help

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Similar threads