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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Why?

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RLP in Co.

08-01-2020 10:57:24




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Why do they make engines out of this junk cast iron? They should be made of steel, then they could be easily repaired!




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RLP in Co.

08-02-2020 14:57:20




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 Re: Why? in reply to RLP in Co., 08-01-2020 10:57:24  
Thanks for all the replies. Lots of smart people on this site!



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Dpittman

08-02-2020 05:21:34




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 Re: Why? in reply to RLP in Co., 08-01-2020 10:57:24  
My foundry casts manganese steel which you wouldn’t want for an engine block because of the poor machinability. It would seem getting the cores right would be a problem, but they do it for cast iron. Maybe steel gets too cold too fast to make large volume pours that would be required in engine block production. Maybe different swelling and shrinking characteristics in the two metals. Good question.

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MarkB_MI

08-02-2020 03:16:34




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 Re: Why? in reply to RLP in Co., 08-01-2020 10:57:24  
The short answer is that cast iron has many desirable characteristics: It's stable, easily machined and economical to produce. Cast iron parts can be produced with very little waste, while machining parts from billet results in a huge amount of waste material.



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timcasbolt

08-01-2020 19:12:44




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 Re: Why? in reply to RLP in Co., 08-01-2020 10:57:24  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeI sort of agree with you. There's good cast iron, and there's junk cast iron. Some of these castings I see coming out of China must have everything including the kitchen sink thrown in while it's hot. I've seen sand in the metal when you try to drill it. Ruins a new drill on the first hole. The automotive industry has always looked for the cheapest thing that will do the job. And these cheap castings are much cheaper to make than good ones with clean raw material. End rant.

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cdmn

08-01-2020 16:20:54




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 Re: Why? in reply to RLP in Co., 08-01-2020 10:57:24  
From about 1942 to 48, the Crosley engine used all steel engine blocks. First built to be used in air-dropped military generators. After the war, they used
the same engine design in their cars. They turned out to have rust problems. From
1948 on, they used cast iron.



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roy prins

08-01-2020 15:58:16




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 Re: Why? in reply to RLP in Co., 08-01-2020 10:57:24  
I like to attend the BIG tractor pull in Rock-Valley Iowa --A few rears back a Gentleman from Canada came with a unit He had built the engine for --thats right a scratch built engine - man did that thing haul a?? -- did not last long tho- dont know why but it did not make a second pull -- He was way out front and still screaming for mercy when she blew-- the engine compartment was glowing -- I was impressed buy the mans ability to do such a thing. -- Has anyone else seen or herd of Him? Roy

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buickanddeere

08-01-2020 15:13:13




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 Re: Why? in reply to RLP in Co., 08-01-2020 10:57:24  
Depends on the steel alloy. Some blocks and heads are referred to as cast steel .



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buzz saw

08-01-2020 14:32:18




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 Re: Why? in reply to RLP in Co., 08-01-2020 10:57:24  
Ant of the tugs I have worked on have a marine gear (transmission) that give a forward and reverse. The EMD powered boats use one left and one right rotating engine. To my knowledge marine applications are the only EMD's that use a left hand rotation on one of the engines, as rotation specific parts, water pump for example, are much more expensive for left as opposed to right hand rotation.



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showcrop

08-01-2020 14:08:51




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 Re: Why? in reply to RLP in Co., 08-01-2020 10:57:24  
rip, you should probably offer consulting services to Ford or Deere.



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gtractorfan

08-01-2020 13:24:21




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 Re: Why? in reply to RLP in Co., 08-01-2020 10:57:24  
Start with a solid block of steel? Think how much machining ($$) that would take.



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RLP in Co.

08-01-2020 14:04:04




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 Re: Why? in reply to gtractorfan, 08-01-2020 13:24:21  
I think they can cast steel too. I think my wheels on my TW35 were cast steel.



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buzz saw

08-01-2020 13:21:39




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 Re: Why? in reply to RLP in Co., 08-01-2020 10:57:24  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

EMD engines that are used in locomotives, generator and marine are welded structural steel blocks, or weldment as EMD calls it. We have EMD engines in river tugs that we maintain and repair that are from the 60's and 70's. Some have been repaired with patches that are welded in just for the purpose of affecting a repair after a catastrophic failure. Interesting engines, think two stroke Detroit Diesel on steroids.

Here is a Wikipedia link (hopefully) that explains them better than I can.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_645

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RLP in Co.

08-01-2020 13:59:05




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 Re: Why? in reply to buzz saw, 08-01-2020 13:21:39  
Those are interesting BIG engines. Can they be started in reverse? Many years ago I saw a old tug boat that had been abandoned on the Columbia River. If I remember right, it had no transmission.



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fixerupper

08-01-2020 13:14:41




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 Re: Why? in reply to RLP in Co., 08-01-2020 10:57:24  
I worked on a 817 cu. Waukesha engine that kept siezing before I worked on it. The previous owner had overhauled it and he machined his own sleeves out of steel. He did a very good job at making the sleeves, they looked factory to me. I dont know what the makeup of the steel was, I only know it was steel. The steel sleeves must have changed size a little when they got warmed up and the pistons stuck. The new owner who I overhauled it for found a set of new P&S packed in cosmoline in a box dated 1952. The engine ran fine with the new pistons and sleeves.

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RLP in Co.

08-01-2020 14:09:53




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 Re: Why? in reply to fixerupper, 08-01-2020 13:14:41  
Interesting, Cast liners must be better. Sounds like some of my crazy ideas that didn't work. But you never know unless you try.



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Steve@Advance

08-01-2020 12:05:33




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 Re: Why? in reply to RLP in Co., 08-01-2020 10:57:24  
Steel is unstable.

It has internal stresses, moves around as it is machined. Sorta like ripping a board.

It also reacts to temperature changes more than cast.

Some cylinder sleeves are made of ductile iron. Ductile is iron with magnesium added. It's some neat stuff, machines easy, weldable to a certain extent. But for some reason entire blocks are not made from it, not sure why.



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dr sportster

08-01-2020 11:30:17




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 Re: Why? in reply to RLP in Co., 08-01-2020 10:57:24  
it is called ductility



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jon f mn

08-01-2020 11:04:39




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 Re: Why? in reply to RLP in Co., 08-01-2020 10:57:24  
Steel flexes too much



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