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Ballast

T

teddy52food

Well-known Member
Neighbor had a leaky rear on his 856. Tire shop came out & replaced both tubes, got rid of the calcium chloride & replaced it with a molasses solution. Supposed to be the newest ballast. Cost of the whole deal was close to a thousand. 1st I have heard of. Anyone else know about it?
 
I think what you're talking about is Rimguard. It's not cheap, but most tire dealers have quit using CaCl in favor of Rimguard or windshield washer fluid.
 
Is a stickey mess better than a rusty mess? Never a fan of fluid, it's always dragging behind you because it's liquid. As the wheel turns, the liquid inside will always be moving, trying to remain in the bottom of the tire. To me, it seems like you'd be dragging something behind you. Cast iron & concrete are better ballast, in my opinion.
 
(quoted from post at 09:11:04 07/20/20) Is a stickey mess better than a rusty mess? Never a fan of fluid, it's always dragging behind you because it's liquid. As the wheel turns, the liquid inside will always be moving, trying to remain in the bottom of the tire. To me, it seems like you'd be dragging something behind you. Cast iron & concrete are better ballast, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Actually it is more than opinion. Testing at the tire manufactures labs is more trustworthy than what Bubba feels with the seat of his pants .
Such testing for example proves that a dry tire with 500lbs of dry ballast will pull more with less fuel. vs the same tire with 500lbs of internal fluid ballast.
A lot of people however do not want to hear that .
 
Solid ballast lets radial tires flex therefore giving more traction.
A liquid filled tire is stiffer,like a post Thanksgiving dinner belly.
There is a tendency for liquid ballast to make a tractor power hop.
 
Well ole Bubba here found out tractor pulling the same thing,no fluid with weights was better than fluid in the tire.Glad them 'experts' were up to speed this time(LOL)
 
Thats alot of IRON to be hung to equal one loaded tire as the one neighbor is finding out now that they are coming into the TWENTY century where five sets of wheel weights was enough for the S/MTA that DAD bought NEW and was the main power for EONS and when the boys got big enough the second one was added , Now that the BOYS are doing it all they have stepped up to a 1066 and five sets are NOT enough to hold it down in our hills . And adding more IRON tuns into a problem when tryen to get thru narrow gates and door ways . I don't care what or who's brand of tire ya run when you doing tillage or moving loaded silage wagons you want and NEED the weight . We had one tractor that had NO weight that we used and setting bare she was right around 94-9500 lbs and on the hills the Haybine would shove you , my 806 weighs in at around 13500 and on the one field at the one end that same haybine will shove you on the turn . Yes Cal will eat a rim out if you get a leak but it is NOT going to happen over night it takes YEARS of neglect of a leaking tire and being to lazy and cheap not to fix the problem . When i installed the new radials on the 806 i did have to do a valve stem hole repair on a rim that is how old , like back to 1964 . You car or pick up is going to rust out a lot sooner . To equal the same weight per side you would need iron on both sides of each rear tire . Around here i know of two tire shops that will not use the beet juice .
 
(quoted from post at 07:34:59 07/20/20) Well ole Bubba here found out tractor pulling the same thing,no fluid with weights was better than fluid in the tire.Glad them 'experts' were up to speed this time(LOL)
Click to expand...


Well, Bubba, I would like to see the notes from that tractor pull to see how all the 15 or so variables were eliminated between the two hooks
 
(quoted from post at 08:16:26 07/20/20)
Actually it is more than opinion. Testing at the tire manufactures labs is more trustworthy than what Bubba feels with the seat of his pants .
Such testing for example proves that a dry tire with 500lbs of dry ballast will pull more with less fuel. vs the same tire with 500lbs of internal fluid ballast.
A lot of people however do not want to hear that .
Click to expand...

b&d
You or someone needs to contact the authors of John Deere 7530 operators manual & notify them that they shouldn't be showing the correct method to install liquid ballast in tractor tires.

Does anyone know the exact figures of loss of traction & increased fuel consumption utilizing liquid vs metal ballast?

I'll bet the majority of tractors utilized today that are discussed on tractor forums that % wheel slippage & fuel consumption doesn't have much affect in these tractors low annual hourly usage & very small amount if any use for tillage.

mvphoto58751.png
 
If they didn't take the time [and they never do] to steam clean any rims exposed to calcium, they will still be rusting away after installation of new tires/etc.

There are different forms of "none corrosive" liquid ballast out there. Some of it will churn into a thick paste, becoming a problem to pump out.

Unfortunately, I had liquid ballast put in one tractor. I had purchased a 200+ HP MFWD tractor in March, and quickly needed 4000# of ballast on the rear for pulling a chisel plow. I think it was $1600 to do this several years ago. It works, but I would prefer dry tires.
 
(quoted from post at 11:02:03 07/20/20) If they didn't take the time [and they never do] to steam clean any rims exposed to calcium, they will still be rusting away after installation of new tires/etc.

There are different forms of "none corrosive" liquid ballast out there. Some of it will churn into a thick paste, becoming a problem to pump out.

Unfortunately, I had liquid ballast put in one tractor. I had purchased a 200+ HP MFWD tractor in March, and quickly needed 4000# of ballast on the rear for pulling a chisel plow. I think it was $1600 to do this several years ago. It works, but I would prefer dry tires.
Click to expand...

Bob, any rusting of a rim that was exposed to CaCl will stop rusting within a few hours of being aired up. Rust is oxidation. Oxidation needs oxygen to take place. there is no oxygen supply inside a mounted tire.
 
Because in most cases liquid is cheaper than cast and most farmers don't want to pay the extra.
 

What is your point ? Dry ballast is ideal but if stuck with the situation that enough dry ballast can not be bolted on . Then of course liquid ballast is 2nd best .
 
I found out that beet juice gets stiff like thick jelly when it gets real cold. This new stuff stays liquid. Cost is $3.00 a gallon.
 
(quoted from post at 14:44:34 07/20/20) That's a great theory, but I have seen otherwise.
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That is not a theory Bob, it is basic chemistry. I'll be that it has been known for over 1,000 years.
 
Then why is the rim all rusty on the leaky tube. Tube is all brown with rust. He had
new tubes put in with the new ballast.
 
(quoted from post at 07:01:23 07/21/20) Then why is the rim all rusty on the leaky tube. Tube is all brown with rust. He had
new tubes put in with the new ballast.
Click to expand...

It never ran out of air because it wasn't sealed. He kept airing it up when it got soft, and some of that air went out through the leak and to the rim.
 
Fluid makes for a lwer center of gravity than iron weights will since it is from the tread up and the iron is from the bolt holes on the casting up to the other holes. So top is almost as high and bottom is not nearly as low. I would guess from what I saw this spring spraying that it took about 5 weights on the wheel to match the chloride in the other tire. I have 6 half weights on the inside and 2 full weights on the outside on my 806 the other wheel has chloride. seems to match up pretty well for pull. Though on the hills the fluid is better.
 

b&d
With your normal "smoke screen" replies you failed to comment on my photo showing JD approves putting liquid ballast in the tires of a '13 7130(121 HP) which is similar to 4020. LOL

My theory is if JD engineers thinks liquid ballast is fine for a 400 HP tractor it should be ever better for a 40 HP tractor to add weight & probably """never or very seldom"" pull a plow so you referring to loss of traction is a not involved!

Have a good day,Jim
 
(quoted from post at 06:01:12 07/22/20)
b&d
With your normal "smoke screen" replies you failed to comment on my photo showing JD approves putting liquid ballast in the tires of a '13 7130(121 HP) which is similar to 4020. LOL

My theory is if JD engineers thinks liquid ballast is fine for a 400 HP tractor it should be ever better for a 40 HP tractor to add weight & probably """never or very seldom"" pull a plow so you referring to loss of traction is a not involved!

Have a good day,Jim
Click to expand...

No room on a 4020 to bolt on sufficient cast ballast ?
 
(quoted from post at 07:28:32 07/23/20)
(quoted from post at 06:01:12 07/22/20)


No room on a 4020 to bolt on sufficient cast ballast ?
Click to expand...


Very good "Smoke screen"!

Back in the 70's I had a customer that had several 4020's with liquid filled back tires & 5 rear wheel weights on each rear wheel.
Click to expand...
 

Can if they want but the tractor was grossly over ballasted. Doe snot make it right .
A lot of power and fuel wasted overcoming the rolling friction. Put that 4020 in the field in neutral and find out how large of a tractor is required to tow it.

Read this .https://agtiretalk.com/proper-tractor-ballast-manufacturers-answer/
 
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