News isn't good

Geo-TH,In

Well-known Member
All tran and another place in town has no way to repair tube for leaking. All-tran wants up to $2k to set up new rear end.

They have no way to check axle alignment. He said if it's more than. 002 inch out it will tear the gears.

So help me find a used rear end for a terramite. Mine is a T5D, which is rare. Only in production for 3 years. Then they went back to the T5C.

I'm guessing and terramite might rear end will work.

East coast gear sells Dana rear and assembly for $325. Then I would have to shim it properly because the original shim is in pieces.

So see if you can locate me a used rear end. I would hate to have to buy a new rear end.

Call Terry's Terramite in Al. Left him a message.

Someone said this isn't going to be cheap and it looks that way.
George
 
Geo measure the thickness of the shim that is in pieces that will give you a ballpark idea how thick it was originally. Buy the gears and put it back together, shims should be available in various thickness. I bet once you get into it you will be able to figure it out.
 
Wire brush the joint with a stiff Twisted wire wheel until you see the metal getting abraded. use carb cleaner on the joint and blow the cleaner into the crack 3 times! Put thin crazy glue on the crack to let it seep in. Cover the glued seam with Lexel caulking. Not silicone, not urethane, not any other brand! This stuff is good. The glue used first will limit the exposure of the Lexel to oil from inside. Jim
 
David, you don't understand. The reason Geo has so much money is that he never spends any of it. (;>))
 
The reason shops charge so much is they have to stand behind their work.

You can fix it yourself for whatever you want to invest, no one to blame if it doesn't work.

I would seal the tube like Jim said if you are satisfied it isn't bent or loose.

I can make you a new shim if you send the dimensions or a sample part, grind it flat just like the original.

It doesn't have to be perfect on the back lash and preload. Minor out of spec will cause howling, not going to be a problem on a tractor.
 
George you are not going to live long enough to wear out a new rear end!! If the ring and pinion are usable all you are likely to need is spider gears. Terri mite did not have a special set of gears made. Are the gears which the axles fit into usable>> if so about any spider gears and shaft as well as small long bolt holding spider gear shaft in will be necessary. Might get new bolt as they can become crystalized. Stop over thinking this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Unless abused as from a rental shop there is not enough power to rip out gears. Problem was most likely abuse . About any good junk yard should have used spider gears from someone who stupidly over powered the whole differential.Even if gears to axel are non usable the gears are from some automotive rear end as again special gears were not likely made.
 
Two thousands . No not for you!! Recall Nascar let cars offset the axles for left turns by grinding ends of axle shaft to slip slightly in gears. Now if Nascar rear end at 200 mph speeds are slightly misaligned a terramite will stand some misalignment!!!!!!!!!
 
wilson ind : Remember the 60's Trans Am Cars, Roger Penske called it grunch. They bent the axle tubes to get some negative camber. Idea was good but results were not worth the hassle. Gears held up for racing anyway. That is what the rags said anyway.
 
I haven't said anything yet but here is a story. Years ago I had an International Loadstar 1600. Was a good truck. Then the rear started howling. Lots of filings in the oil. When I got to fixing it I found the nut on the pinion had worked loose, the pinion was rubbing on the ring gear making all those filings. I flushed everything out tightened the pinion so it felt right, put it all back together and filled it with oil. I used the truck but started looking for another. I sold the truck to someone local, he loved it, ran it for many miles no complaint. Get what you need and put that rear together yourself using you own mechanical judgement and I'm sure you will be happy and it will be fine.
 
David,
I gave up driving and smoking 40+ years ago.
I haven't given up on world woman. They have given up on me with social distancing.
One way or another I'll fix it and sell it to Larry. COD and a out of sight warranty.

George
 
Try East Coast Gear Supply. They have gears, shim kits or whatever you need for a Dana 44
 
Are you any good at brazing ? I think I'd braze those axle tubes into that casting once I had it all apart.
 
I know in Terre Haute there should be someone that narrows rear ends for drag cars, pulling trucks or rock climber Jeeps and such. They can weld and straighten the housing. And if they are worth their weight in mud, they can set up the gears for you. Call around. You might be surprised. Might check with Scheid Diesel.
 
Bill,
I really think all tran didn't want the job. So outrageous pirce he knows he won't get the job.
George
 
I'm betting the factory tolerance is way more than .002" and that would be for automotive use. I would do like others have said and buy new spider gears and put it back together yourself. In a tractor I'm betting it will last you for years!
 
George-I would bet the cause of failure was spin out. If you spin 1 wheel too long the spider gears (and the curved thrust washers behind them) won't get lubed. Lubrication is achieved by the ring dipping in lube and slinging it around, but when spinning the spiders rotate more than the lube can keep up with. I wonder if the thrust washers behind the spiders are even there, or if they wore out. Their purpose is keep the spiders meshed deep enough to make full contact with their mating gear. What I could see from your pics, was the tips of the gear teeth broke off. You said it was a rental in a previous life,so it could have been abused.
I would just replace the spider set, seal the housing-I like the band clamp idea. Good luck, Mark.
 
Already talked to east coast gear.
Waiting on a separator to see if I can just buy gears and an assortment of shims. Measure the thickness of the damaged shim. Use old carrier. Add oil as needed.
Called Terramite, new axles sells for $2500 + taxes+shipping. OUCH.
George
 
I left you a note below on a Dana 44 center section that has never been used, you would have to transfer your tubes and axles to it.
cvphoto304.jpg
 
Rcp
Removind and replacing tubes is above my pay grade. Keep in mind I've never worked on a rear end before.
Thanks
George
 
David
Thanks for the offer.
I've been thinking we've may have over thunk the problem. So tomorrow I plan to pull the axle and use the flanges off axle, use the plastic from an oil can to seal off the end of the tube. Using chain hoist I'll stand axle vertically and fill the tub with oil to confirm the tube is actually leaking. It's possible the oil may be coming from a hose or leaky hydraulic cylinder.
George
 
I think you are right, get the parts and stick it together. Put you jb weld or something on the tube, it will be better than it was when you got it and you know how you have used it. I think you can make it where you will get buy as long as you are going to need it.
 
If it is the leak, or if it isn't the leak fixing it as I indicated below can't hurt, and is much easier than taking the axle out to fill it with gallons of oil with no way to seal up the lower end befre filling what a mess. Spray carb cleaner into the axle to housing like I said and look inside for evidence of carb cleaner. Was the housing leaving a streak of oil on the ground, no. Use the tool you are buying to spread and reinstall the gears with the shim thickness it had. It will be fine. Jim
 
No major leak. Just a drip. Not 100% sure oil wasn't coming from another source. That's why I want to do a leak test.
 
Too much effort with no return. If it had oil in it when you took it apart, there is no reason to take it off and struggle to get it sealed up enough to not make a mess!! if it was a small leak, it will take a 6 month test to show!. Jim
 
Well George, I think it's clear that tranny shop didn't want to mess with your axle. Which is fine, but they should have been a bit more upfront about it, rather than rattle off some nonsense about two thousandths being enough to trash the gears but they have no way to check it. (Pick ONE story, guys!) Two thousandths MEASURED HOW? There must be two thousandths movement just in the axle splines.

I think your original plan is still solid. Replacing the non-posi differential with a locker will be a HUGE upgrade; it would be well worth the cost even if you didn't need to repair the diff. The only question is whether or not you still want to tackle it yourself. A shop that specializes in differential work wouldn't bat an eye at it, and it ain't gonna be no two grand.

As for your leak, I think I would try to clean it up real good and braze it.
 
Mark,
I think you are confused again.
Alltran said he has no way to measure if axle is true. He also said he doesn't know any on in Indiana that could repair axle.

I asked him what he charger to put new gear in? upwards of $2k to put in new gears and no guarantee.

He really didn't want the job.

Later I discovered for $2,5k + tax+ shipping I can buy a new axle.

Planning to devise a leak test and go from there.
George
 
I have 2 Case/Davis trenchers and an Aztec Tractor loader that have similar looking rears,so if there is a salvage yard around with those type machines you might look there.I'll sell you one of these machines whole for a whole lot less than $2500.
 

Might consider soap bubbles to check for leak, just a small rise in air pressure, not too much! The diff housing has a vent that needs to breathe when the unit is sealed up, don't over look it. When a diff comes in my shop for a leaky seal repair,or just service, I always check the vent for function. Plugged vent spells leak.
As far as getting the carrier out of the housing, after both axle shafts are removed, the carrier should come out without terrible struggle, even without spreading, DON"T BE SCARED, use two bars at the same time, if one bar won't "lever" it out. I read you ordered a spreader, I like tools also, make sure there is nothing wedging the carrier bearing races in the saddle. The carrier needs to lift out evenly side to side so it won't "wedge" tight. Don't let it roll out and mash something. You can do this job,
mvphoto52108.jpg

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> Mark, I think you are confused again. Alltran said he has no way to measure if axle is true. He also said he doesn't know any on in Indiana that could repair axle.

No, my friend, I'm not confused. Your tranny shop gave you two conflicting stories:

1. An axle housing mis-alignment of 0.002" (whatever that means) can cause differential failure.

2. They don't have any way to measure the housing alignment.

Now, does that make any sense? If the housing alignment was that critical, wouldn't they check every single differential they worked on? Otherwise it's a potential warranty issue.

Their "two thousandths" claim doesn't pass the smell test at any rate, if you think about. We're really not talking about how straight the housing is, after all, but rather how well the axles are aligned with the differential. And there's a lot of slop in the axles, even when the wheel bearings are brand new. And it gets worse as the wheel bearings wear and eventually fail. If the axle alignment was that critical, every time a wheel bearing failed it would take out the differential. And we know that simply does not happen.

Let's back up a bit to how this discussion started. Someone said it looked like the housing was bent based on your picture. It would have to have been REALLY bad to have been visible, but you checked with your trusty drywall square and it looked OK. Maybe the picture was a bit distorted from the angle or something; I don't know. But can we agree that your axle housing IS NOT BENT and move on?

Your plan to replace the differential with a locker is a good one. And 350 bucks for a locking differential is pretty darn cheap. The only question in my mind is whether you do it yourself or have a shop do it. If you do it yourself, you'll need to remove the ring gear from the old carrier and install it on the new one, which is a bit tricky since it's a shrink fit. But I'm sure you can handle it yourself if you want. If you want to farm it out, look for a shop that ONLY works on differentials, not somebody that does it as a sideline.
 
Contact Dewco Sales Inc. in Richmond Indiana. Kind of a haul for you, but differentials are their specialty. I have had them setup a couple, and they have come out great. One of the ones I had them setup was an oddball Dana 60 from a quad steer GM truck. I still service that truck, the rear they built now has more miles than the original had. They even offered to weld a split open Dodge truck center housing, but we went another direction on that truck.
 
There is 2thousandth's in the splines for the side gears let alone side gears to the housing. Just put the spider gears and run it. If the ring and pinion is good.
 

GM diffs have issues with the cross pin wearing bad in the carrier, Ford 8.8 has issues with the spider gears they are all repairable it just cost money. Why this is not a common repair you can call the junk yard and get a replacement wamm bamm cash the check its painless...

I am gonna defend the trans shop this work can be time consuming parts can be expensive they are there to make a profit you have the right to decline the repair its as simple as that... If they don't feel comfortable with doing a diff then so be it most trans shops only do transmissions that's where their gravy is. I know of no local trans shop that does diff work and why would they. they can make double the money for the same time spent on a diff... I see no reason to baggier them they did not want to do it so if they did they were up front and honest if they did it was gonna cost ya you were gonna accept the outcome with them...

Some of use enjoy this type of work its a challenge I took it own so I could buy the special tools to make the job go so much faster and easier... Without the tools it can becomes a P.I.T.A. Most everyone that has worked for me has never done a diff when they left they could...

You have 5 are so here that I know they know this it not B.S. you have a A team you are the one skeered I understand lets build the rear end. One question I have not seen discussed does the cross pin have any slop where it fits into the carrier if it does I would put a carrier in it if I had to stand behind it...
 
There certainly is a lot of discussion over this simple thing. I have set up many rears in my lifetime.

Here is some information:

There are only FOUR things to set up in a differential!

1) Pinion depth. This is the relationship between the housing and the pinion gear. This was originally set up at the factory using a special fixture to gauge the actual location of the gear. Replacement pinions are marked with a plus or minus and a number. If not marked, they may be considered to be zero. Unless you are replacing the pinion, this will remain the same and requires no further consideration.

2) Pinion bearing preload. These bearings require a bit of tension against them to operate properly. Again, unless the pinion is disturbed as in replacing bearings or the seal, it requires no attention. If replacing the seal, you tighten the yoke a little at a time until you feel a slight drag. That is close enough. If you go too far, you will need to replace the crush sleeve if it has one. Some rears use a crush sleeve, some are just shimmed. Here, just common sense applies. If you start to feel a slight drag, it is close enough. Note that if the seal isn't leaking, leave it alone!

3) Carrier bearing preload. Just like pinion bearing preload. Just a little drag is good enough. This is set either with shims or adjustment sleeves. Shims are a bit more time consuming. Unless you are replacing the carrier, just re-use the same shims.

4) Backlash. This is the only really critical adjustment. This is the clearance between the ring and pinion gears. Normal is around .005 to .009. Again, unless you are replacing the carrier, the same shims you took out are correct.

Things to know:

Ring and pinion gears are a matched set. They are machined and fit together when they are manufactured on special machinery. You cannot "mix or match" them. They are a set.

The smaller gears inside the carrier are called side gears and pinions. They are also referred to as spider gears. These each have a washer behind them. These are the gears that allow for differential action. That allows the wheels to turn at slightly different speeds as when going around a turn.

This is not rocket science or nuclear physics. There is no "black magic" or voodoo involved. It is straight forward nuts and bolts with a couple of fixtures added in. Anybody with a reasonable mechanical ability can do it.
 
There is a lot of discussion here. I only meant to clarify what the basic adjustments are and how they are achieved. I also stated that the most of them need not be disturbed. Your post was more like "you MUST do this, that and the other." I was only trying to take the mystery out of it.

As it is, the size of this thread alone would scare off most folks.

When I was in the trade, the one thing that I did not like about rears was that they paid next to nothing. A complete setup with a new ring and pinion would only pay about 3 hours on flat rate in the warranty book. And that was doing it in the car from underneath on a creeper without a lift. Most of the other "mechanics" pretended that they didn't know how to set up a rear to avoid the job.
 

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