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Electric Car motors

U

used red MN

Well-known Member
Location
Coon Rapids, MN
As a point of interest I received an email the other day that had the topic "Things that will become obsolete in 10 -20 years. One of the items had to do with how much better electric cars will be. It laid out this scenario:
- A petrol/diesel engine has 20,000 individual parts. An electrical motor has 20. Electric cars are sold with lifetime guarantees and are repaired only by dealers. It takes only [u:cdb56f82ca]10 minutes to remove and replace an electric motor.[/u:cdb56f82ca]
- Faulty electric motors are not repaired in the dealership but are sent to a regional repair shop that repairs them with robots
- Your electric motor malfunction light goes on, so you drive up to what looks like a car wash, and your car is towed through while you have a cup of coffee and out comes your car with a new electric motor!
Anybody familiar with a Tesla or any other electric car? I have a strong suspicion that it would take longer then 10 minutes to change out the main drive motor.
 
I think it will take a bit longer than 10 minutes, but it is true that there are a lot less moving parts.
 
There are a lot less moving parts. But
there are A LOT more REALLY EXPENSIVE
control parts and batteries. Not to
mention the EXPENSIVE electrical upgrades
to your house. Not to mention the WAITING.
Did you know, to charge the current Chevy
Bolt to full range with the supplied 110
cord takes roughly 3 days? What gas car
takes three days to achieve its range?
Typical automotive article written by a
know-nothing.
 
and what about the 20,000 moving parts in the petro engine. I mean, come on. There are no where near 20,000 moving parts in an engine. Without counting, Maybe 200... And how many cylinders...? 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, etc..
 
Sounds like typical garbage reports. Here is a video by the outfit that does a
lot off reverse engineering and they complained a little but then turned right
around and said several times in different ways that a Tesla is awsum. Take a
look. Tesla is getting better and better. Here is a second video where a Tesla
just trashes a Porsche on the auto bond. Hits 145mph?
Tear apart
 
Here is the Audubon. At 146mph this thing is just whispering! Spaceship time!
cvphoto8387.jpg

Audubon
 
It took 100 years to make cars that could easily be driven 200,000 miles with reasonable maintenance, high
reliability, operated by a person with little experience, good comfort, and very high safety records. Electric
car technology, in more than a novelty production numbers setting, are hardly 10 years old. They will evolve.

Oh, and, the OEM suppliers to the automotive industry, when they sign contracts to product parts for the life of the
vehicle, also sign up to provide production quality replacement parts for 6-10 years after end of volume production.
Folks that drive cars beyond this period will be relying on left over OEM inventories, aftermarket suppliers, or the
bone yards.
 
Considering that some of those claims are absolutely false, I would take the rest with a healthy dose of skepticism.

Dean
 
I wonder if there is any one statement in that mail that is actually factual. "An electrical motor has 20 [parts]" is clearly BS, there are more laminations than that.

And why on earth would anyone go to the effort to not only build 10 minute robotic engine changing stations but scatter them all over the country; if the engine is going to last a lifetime?

BTW, electric cars have been around for well over 100 years. Here's an example from 1888:
800px-Flocken_7_1888.jpg
 
Interesting (to me) data point: Chevy had a Volt go 480,000
miles on the original battery. Besides the tires, haven?t found
what else had to be replaced in that time. And yes, this
apparently wasn?t driven in winter salt. Another article I read indicated they recognize this is an exceptional outlier.
480K mile Volt
 
(quoted from post at 18:54:53 03/14/20) As a point of interest I received an email the other day that had the topic "Things that will become obsolete in 10 -20 years. One of the items had to do with how much better electric cars will be. It laid out this scenario:
- A petrol/diesel engine has 20,000 individual parts. An electrical motor has 20. Electric cars are sold with lifetime guarantees and are repaired only by dealers. It takes only [u:cf0e5fd145]10 minutes to remove and replace an electric motor.[/u:cf0e5fd145]
- Faulty electric motors are not repaired in the dealership but are sent to a regional repair shop that repairs them with robots
- Your electric motor malfunction light goes on, so you drive up to what looks like a car wash, and your car is towed through while you have a cup of coffee and out comes your car with a new electric motor!
Anybody familiar with a Tesla or any other electric car? I have a strong suspicion that it would take longer then 10 minutes to change out the main drive motor.
Click to expand...

I prefer to think of these cars as battery operated.
 
With technology advances these days its hard to imagine what might come up within even 10 years but I'm sure there will be some major advances.There was a CEO of some company on one of the business channels that was working on electric and hydrogen technology the other day he seemed to think hydrogen powered vehicles were going to be big in the future.
 
It's pretty much an established fact that electric vehicles require much less maintenance than their internal combustion counterparts. And although electric motors and their associated control systems do fail, they have a pretty high mean time between failure compared to IC engines and drivetrains. It sounds like your source may have been exaggerating a bit, but that doesn't mean EVs aren't more reliable and easier to service than conventional IC vehicles. Just consider how much time and money you spend on oil changes over the life of a vehicle.
 
> Did you know, to charge the current Chevy Bolt to full range with the supplied 110 cord takes roughly 3 days?

Nobody charges their EV on 120 volt power unless there's nothing else available. Nearly all EV owners have dedicated chargers in their garages.
 
Just walk over to your toolbox and look at
your cordless tools. How far have they
come in the last 10 years? It still amazes
me that I have a 1/2 impact that will take
the nuts off semi wheels.

Cars will have similar advances. Will
electric cars be the answer for everybody?
No, but they will be for many people. I
liked the Chevy offering, was it the
bolt?,that was electric with a booster
genset. Electric efficiency when close to
home, but still unlimited range.
 
They may be quicker to replace things on like the motor versus an engine. Some of all this is true. What nobody ever talks about is the disposal cost. Which is very much higher than the engine powered vehicle.
 
I have no idea how long it might take to swap out an electric motor on any given vehicle and its been yearsssssssss since I was an electrical engineer at the Century Electric Motor Company, but I can tell you this. An electric motor is sooooooooooo simple as compared to a gas engine WELL DUH YOU SAY LOL. An armature, a couple bearings, maybe or maybe not brushes, fields, EASY PEASEY...???..Talk about HUGE electric motors, look at locomotive traction motors wowwwwwww Lots of copper lol

One sees more and more EV's on the road and as battery technology and driving range improves PLUS if there's an infrastructure for recharging in reasonable time???? it may well increase.

I wonder about the tree huggers and environmentalist who are for whatever reasons opposed to Hydrolectric or Coal Fired or Nuclear power plants, where do they want to get electricity to recharge those eco friendly cars?? Solar perhaps ?? Im ONLY asking don't anyone have a calf...

John T
 
Tell that to my friends that work at a Chevy dealer that have to deal with ding dongs complaining about low range, just to find out the person is using the 110 cord. What they are finding is the 220 fast charge stations require more amperage than past Volt models, and the customer's entrance box can't handle the load, so they don't install the 220 charger. Even if they have a previous 220 charger from a Volt, the charge time is long. Not 3 days, but long. GM says the average house in the US needs $5K of electrical upgrades, on average, due to most houses having 1970's electrical architecture. After financing a glorified golf cart to the tune of $30K, they would have to out of pocket for electrical upgrades.
 
Batteries in hybrids an modern electric cars are NiMH or LIon. Both are worthless toxic waste when spent. They cannot be recycled or made non-hazardous.
 
(quoted from post at 08:18:52 03/15/20) It's pretty much an established fact that electric vehicles require much less maintenance than their internal combustion counterparts. And although electric motors and their associated control systems do fail, they have a pretty high mean time between failure compared to IC engines and drivetrains. It sounds like your source may have been exaggerating a bit, but that doesn't mean EVs aren't more reliable and easier to service than conventional IC vehicles. Just consider how much time and money you spend on oil changes over the life of a vehicle.
Click to expand...
ow many oil change can you get for the cost of a $5,000 battery?
 
(quoted from post at 20:54:53 03/14/20) As a point of interest I received an email the other day that had the topic "Things that will become obsolete in 10 -20 years. One of the items had to do with how much better electric cars will be. It laid out this scenario:
- A petrol/diesel engine has 20,000 individual parts. An electrical motor has 20. Electric cars are sold with lifetime guarantees and are repaired only by dealers. It takes only [u:4be34dba9e]10 minutes to remove and replace an electric motor.[/u:4be34dba9e]
- Faulty electric motors are not repaired in the dealership but are sent to a regional repair shop that repairs them with robots
- Your electric motor malfunction light goes on, so you drive up to what looks like a car wash, and your car is towed through while you have a cup of coffee and out comes your car with a new electric motor!
Anybody familiar with a Tesla or any other electric car? I have a strong suspicion that it would take longer then 10 minutes to change out the main drive motor.
Click to expand...

My thoughts on a 10 minute drive through motor replacement;

-How long does it take to write up a work order?

-How long does it take to run diagnostics?

-Will it be like a 10 minute lube shop where an untrained minimum wage employee will be trying to upsell you a battery, cables, controllers etc?
There needs to be some expectation of generating a profit for it to be feasible.

-What are the odds the car will even be drivable if the motor has failed?

-If the failure rate was so high who would buy one?


-If a manufacturer were to invest in the infrastructure across the country to provide the above said service, just how high would the price tag be for these cars have to be so the manufacturer could even come close to breaking even this century.

Lets not forget the tax everyone pays on fuel to keep the road infrastructure in order.
Without these funds to build and repair roads a huge increase in the price and tax on electricity would be inevitable.
 
On engine/motor complexity: they simply 'moved' the complexity from the IC engine into the very much more complex computer/electronic controller units. Don't be sidetracked by a 'simple electric motor'. Those controllers likely cost more than your 5.7L engine!
 
After it is all said and done, the gasoline powered internal combustion engine is the gold standard to which all other technologies are compared.

As previously stated, electric cars have been around for over a century. Had they been so great they would have been developed and refined long ago and over the last century. Apparently, they did not work very well or they would have been the standard instead of the novelty today.

Then there is that issue about comparing the complexity of electric to gasoline power. There are not nearly 20,000 parts in a gasoline engine. Even if you count each and every little lock washer and bolt. If they author wanted to make a case for such a comparison, he threw away much of his credibility by outright lies and exaggerations.

Each variety of automotive power has its advantages and disadvantages. While that Tesla may be able to pass a Porsche on the Autobahn, the Porsche will pass the Tesla when it pulls over to the side with a run down battery.

Which one pollutes more? Well, the electric car just moves the pollution from the tailpipe to the power plant down the way. Most of a gasoline powered car can be fairly economically recycled. Electric car batteries are toxic waste.
 
The real electric vehicle joke that nobody seems to care about is where they get the materials for these vehicles. Where does the battery materials come from? Where do the get the raw materials for the magnets in the motor? Do a little research and you will find that petroleum isn't so bad. Funny when these folks pretend to be environmentally conscious when they are actually supporting terrible mining practices and environmental disasters is other countries.
 
(quoted from post at 10:46:33 03/15/20) $5K in upgrades is what you'll spend one year in fuel.
Click to expand...


No big deal for people who own a home and have no plans of moving but could create a dilemma for renters.

Imagine you can't move here and you can't move there because they don't have charger upgrades yet and you don't want to or can't afford to sell your car.
 
My son has a Tesla 3. He loves it and I have to admit I am fascinated by the technology and performance. He can travel from his house to mine (241 miles) on a fully charged battery in the summer with AC running. This is 95% interstate highway (I83, I76 PA turnpike, and I376). Coming from his house to mine is a gradual uphill climb. In the winter he has to stop at a super charger station about 3/4 way here. They stop at a restaurant where a supercharger is and in half an hour the car is charged for a lot more than the rest of the trip takes. The batteries are less efficient in cold weather and the heater takes more energy than the ac. The thing I find both amazing and a little alarming is that updates to battery performance and the cars other systems are done by an automatic download to the car's computer. His driving range has increased just through system downloads. My son isn't an environmental nut but is a computer engineer and likes the technology and performance. As battery technology improves and the charging infrastructure grows the EV will become more the norm. My son wants me to put my order in for the model Y but I'm old and it's sort like buying shoes on line, I want to try them on before I put my money down.
And to make this tractor related I saw a headline that John Deere is committed to electric tractors.
Phil
 
(quoted from post at 10:07:31 03/15/20) This whole thing is BS. Not changing out a motor in ten minutes either.
Click to expand...

"This whole thing is BS."

EXACTLY, yet it provokes a thread this long!

I'm GUESSING it was some investment scam email, pretty easy to accept it as such and quit reading it at the mention of car engines with 20K parts!

If and when I get it I will toss it in the scam bin along with all the fantastic 5G investment emails.
 
The last auto I bought,used, from a Ford dealer, has free oil changes for life. My 2 cents. joe
 
Is the need to recharge an electric car really that much different than than the need to plug in a diesel pickup so it will start in cold weather? In cold climates residences, apartment complexes and employers have added outlets (heater plug-ins, docking stations, whatever you want to call them) to accommodate diesel pickups without much problem.
 
The difference between plugging in a diesel and charging an electric car is orders of magnitude.

A diesel block heater runs on a modest amount of electric at 110 volts. An electric car needs 220 volts at a high current draw for a substantial amount of time to get an effective charge.

Look at it like a glass of water. A diesel only sips a little off the top to keep warm. An electric car takes a long deep drink. All of that electricity needed to operate a car is stored in its battery. That is a lot of kilowatts.
 
(quoted from post at 07:39:01 03/16/20) Is the need to recharge an electric car really that much different than than the need to plug in a diesel pickup so it will start in cold weather? In cold climates residences, apartment complexes and employers have added outlets (heater plug-ins, docking stations, whatever you want to call them) to accommodate diesel pickups without much problem.
Click to expand...

A block heater uses a nominal amount of electricity occasionally when it is cold out.

An electric car would typically be charged on a daily basis depending on the distance the owner commutes.

Rough numbers are $5 - $12 to charge up a battery so if you owned an apartment building with 100 units your power bill could increase by $30 000 a month assuming your building actually had adequate wiring for such a load.
 
(quoted from post at 09:43:23 03/16/20) The difference between plugging in a diesel and charging an electric car is orders of magnitude.

A diesel block heater runs on a modest amount of electric at 110 volts. An electric car needs 220 volts at a high current draw for a substantial amount of time to get an effective charge.

Look at it like a glass of water. A diesel only sips a little off the top to keep warm. An electric car takes a long deep drink. All of that electricity needed to operate a car is stored in its battery. That is a lot of kilowatts.
Click to expand...
t is so different that most homes need a new/larger electric service entrance panel to accommodate any thing beyond a simple Level 1 charge. 100 amp service is not going to handle any kind of " a few hours' to charge system. Taking this on up to Tesla's fastest, high power charger requires 480 volts at 120,000 Watts ( a 480v/250amp service). That's just a smidgen beyond your 16 GA extension cord out to typical block heater. :roll:
 
(quoted from post at 10:45:23 03/16/20)
(quoted from post at 09:43:23 03/16/20) The difference between plugging in a diesel and charging an electric car is orders of magnitude.

A diesel block heater runs on a modest amount of electric at 110 volts. An electric car needs 220 volts at a high current draw for a substantial amount of time to get an effective charge.

Look at it like a glass of water. A diesel only sips a little off the top to keep warm. An electric car takes a long deep drink. All of that electricity needed to operate a car is stored in its battery. That is a lot of kilowatts.
Click to expand...
t is so different that most homes need a new/larger electric service entrance panel to accommodate any thing beyond a simple Level 1 charge. 100 amp service is not going to handle any kind of " a few hours' to charge system. Taking this on up to Tesla's fastest, high power charger requires 480 volts at 120,000 Watts ( a 480v/250amp service). That's just a smidgen beyond your 16 GA extension cord out to typical block heater. :roll:
Click to expand...
ust read about Tesla's newest SuperCharger that is so powerful that it uses a liquid cooled power cord & charges in 100 minutes & only cost $300,000 each.
 
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