Indiana DOT cop talks about tie downs and uses speedbinders

Please post a link, not you tube, where
it states its illegal to use speed
binders. I can't find anything in DOT
regulations that says they are illegal.
Thanks. George
 
(quoted from post at 13:24:09 02/18/20) Please post a link, not you tube, where
it states its illegal to use speed
binders. I can't find anything in DOT
regulations that says they are illegal.
Thanks. George

Hi George, Speedbinders are legal in every state. We are manufactured to wstda t-6 standards ( which is a higher standard than odot req's)

It is a high quality binder. I see a lot of guys talking it down on here...they are not for everyone...no worry's. But for those wanting an easier way, safer way, this just might be the binder for you. I am huge in the steel hauling industry and rental...sold over 12,000 units in just the last 2 years alone. Once you use them, you will not go back. Take care
 
Yes, 2 different ratings.
I would have to look them up.
What rating do they have to have to use on tractors weighing under 5K?
George
 
37 seconds in and he would have been busted here in Ontario. Chains/hooks cannot be on the outside of the rub rail. Later he
states you can do that in the US. Just don't cross the border I guess.
 
As said in the video, that was the case here in the states a few years ago. Mfgs started building trailers with no rub rail to prevent idiot screws ups. So they changed the rule. Still suggested to be inside though.
 
(quoted from post at 17:46:04 02/18/20)
(quoted from post at 18:47:42 02/18/20)
Yeppers, either a 6,600 wll or 9,200 wll
I see you website says they are "built" in the USA.
Does that me made in USA?
Or built in USA with imported parts?

Built in USA or assembled here. I do have some US content but it is minimal. I looked to US for manufacturing but the binder would need to retail at $180 apiece. No one would pay that. I employ 2 shops in holmes county ohio for assembly. Hope you understand.
 
MTO website does not state they CANNOT be on outside of rub rail. It states must be on inside of rubrail WHENEVER PRACTICAL. Whenever practical may be interpreted differently. To me when the J hook on the end of your strap will not pass thru the spacer tube or the space between trailer side and rub rail where you gonna hook it? PLUS even if it fits there are cases where you are jeopardizing the strap? I would think as long as you have a reasonable excuse for hooking on outside of rail you are not going to get fined?
 
TOM what YOU think and what happens in the real world must be two different things. I can tell you for certain try and go west of Memphis Tn on I 40 with ANYTHING outside the rub rail and you will cited on the spot. Chain or strap hooks have to be thru the stake pocket or BEHIND the rub rail. Scales have lazier lights that shoot each side and determine the 102 inches, aft that anything else and citation.
 
(quoted from post at 22:27:47 02/18/20) TOM what YOU think and what happens in the real world must be two different things. I can tell you for certain try and go west of Memphis Tn on I 40 with ANYTHING outside the rub rail and you will cited on the spot. Chain or strap hooks have to be thru the stake pocket or BEHIND the rub rail. Scales have lazier lights that shoot each side and determine the 102 inches, aft that anything else and citation.

What is the citation actually for? Chains or straps outside the run rail or over width? What happens if it is a 96" trailer with chains outside the the rails? If they are checking for over 102", that's width. I have to believe the laser will show the total width not the cause. It's splitting hairs, but it is two different things.
 
Talking Ontario Canada by experience. By the sounds of other posts and DOT web site,( see bottom snippet) at least some states are the same? Also on the max 102 inch comment ,we are running a lot of rolltites presently from Lindsay Ontario to Alabama that measure 102 inches INSIDE so around 4 or 5 inches over width.( specified roads-see below) I believe non load carrying devices are allowed max 3 inches each side for total of 108 inches.
cvphoto5693.png


cvphoto5694.png
 
That?s the ytdot talking George . If they don?t know or see something they don?t like they hurry and make something up real quick or quote what billy bobs cousins uncles sisters fathers cousin in law thought he heard once. I think for you speed binders would be great. For me maybe not
 
With all the exclusions and judgement calls its no wonder people are confused and ask 5 cops get 5 different answers.Some years ago I had a GMC road tractor with air brakes that I only used to haul tractors to shows and pulls DMV said I need a commercial license some state police said no I didn't.The question finally went to Richmond to state police HDQT the top fellow there said no I didn't and gave me his personal cell number said if anyone gave me trouble about it to call him and he'd straighten it out.Never had a problem.
 
I have been following Dirt Perfect and his buddy Logger Wade for near a year now. When
I saw the video back on the 10th and thought it would be good for here, but I haven't
mastered that cutting, pasting and posting thingy yet.
I thought they did a very good job of explaining things for compliance in IN anyway. I
thought it was interesting that they made the point that the typical homeowner impacts
would not tighten down the speed binder tight enough, and the chain gage and
inspection of chains the officer had was interesting.He stated that a chain with compromised links could be used as long as the compromised links were NOT within the tension area, between tie down point and attachment point. Also he clarified the varying rules about chains inside or outside of rubrails for IN anyway. I found the discussion of attachment points on steel tracked machines to be interesting also.
I still wonder why the states have not adopted a uniform code for tying down loads. I
guess they are like NY, and are too busy defending the wrights of criminals. ---------
--------Loren
 
(quoted from post at 18:41:17 02/18/20)
(quoted from post at 13:24:09 02/18/20) Please post a link, not you tube, where
it states its illegal to use speed
binders. I can't find anything in DOT
regulations that says they are illegal.
Thanks. George

Hi George, Speedbinders are legal in every state. We are manufactured to wstda t-6 standards ( which is a higher standard than odot req's)

It is a high quality binder. I see a lot of guys talking it down on here...they are not for everyone...no worry's. But for those wanting an easier way, safer way, this just might be the binder for you. I am huge in the steel hauling industry and rental...sold over 12,000 units in just the last 2 years alone. Once you use them, you will not go back. Take care

Retired NYSP DOT Inspector here. I'm not familiar with WSTDA T-6 or ODOT. They sound like State agencies. The question is, have they been looked at and approved by the FMCSA Board for interstate commerce in all 50 States, and is there a specific ruling stating so? I'm neither endorsing nor bashing your product, just curious as to their legality. I don't see why they wouldn't be, but sometimes a bit of clarification settles the issue.
 
WHEN and again i said WHEN you have RUB RAILS then it is best to stay inside the rail , NOW WHEN you are pulling a low boy or a RGN they don't have RUB RAILS and NEVER enough Dee Rings SOOOOooooooo then you have to be creative in your load securement . Myself i started dragging a fifty ton low boy way back when i was a pup and you learned the fine art of chaining down loads . you set something on the deck that weighs fifty ton you sure don't want it to fall off . back in those days the smallest i hauled was in the D 4 class or a twelve ton roller on up to the big dozers and pans , shovels and cranes . After i closed up the shop i went back to the heavy haul and most loads that i normally hauled were under the fifty ton range . And just when you THINK you have this all down you get a load to run with for a NEW company and everything you thought you knew about load securement gets tossed out the window , Case in point here how many chains and binders do you need for one skid steer , (2)- (3)- (4)- (5) ( 6) . We are talking about a under 10000 lb machine , Band new from the factory i had five on the load , I carried 24 chains and binders i have 30 2x 30 ratchet straps . Let the fun begin .Also now keep in mind i had 5;/16ths and 3/8th grade 70 chains and ratchet binders , Straps were of the 10000 lb RATING .
 
When I retired, and sold my RGN, this is how many chains and binders I was carrying. Didn't realize I had accumulated so many over the years. 90% were 3/8 grade 70, the rest 1/2.
<a href="https://s1268.photobucket.com/user/douga3/media/DSCN0340_1.jpg.html" target="_blank">
DSCN0340_1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DSCN0340_1.jpg
</a>
 
(quoted from post at 09:33:23 02/19/20)
(quoted from post at 18:41:17 02/18/20)
(quoted from post at 13:24:09 02/18/20) Please post a link, not you tube, where
it states its illegal to use speed
binders. I can't find anything in DOT
regulations that says they are illegal.
Thanks. George

Hi George, Speedbinders are legal in every state. We are manufactured to wstda t-6 standards ( which is a higher standard than odot req's)

It is a high quality binder. I see a lot of guys talking it down on here...they are not for everyone...no worry's. But for those wanting an easier way, safer way, this just might be the binder for you. I am huge in the steel hauling industry and rental...sold over 12,000 units in just the last 2 years alone. Once you use them, you will not go back. Take care

Retired NYSP DOT Inspector here. I'm not familiar with WSTDA T-6 or ODOT. They sound like State agencies. The question is, have they been looked at and approved by the FMCSA Board for interstate commerce in all 50 States, and is there a specific ruling stating so? I'm neither endorsing nor bashing your product, just curious as to their legality. I don't see why they wouldn't be, but sometimes a bit of clarification settles the issue.

The WSTDA has been a trusted resource since formation as the Web Sling Association in 1973 and is recognized by the U.S. Department of Justice as a Standards Writing Organization. They write the standards for fmcsa. The fmcsa doesn't approve products, they approve the standards products must adhere to.
 
I use to use the snap binders till the day i was chaining down a CNC lathe and NOT ONE good place to tie it down with , as i has putting the finial snag to it the chain slipped the cheater slipped caught me across the side of the head and layed me out in the parking lot . I was hurt bad , no one around to help bleeding pretty good and it came down to DIY EMT service finish up the tie down and drive the eighty miles back home . I was off for four days and when i went back every snap binder was removed and all ratchets were put on . Twice getting hit with a binder pipe was enough . First time was pulling down on a dozer in the oil patch. Again out in the middle of no where by myself .
 
(quoted from post at 16:48:41 02/19/20)
(quoted from post at 09:33:23 02/19/20)
(quoted from post at 18:41:17 02/18/20)
(quoted from post at 13:24:09 02/18/20) Please post a link, not you tube, where
it states its illegal to use speed
binders. I can't find anything in DOT
regulations that says they are illegal.
Thanks. George

Hi George, Speedbinders are legal in every state. We are manufactured to wstda t-6 standards ( which is a higher standard than odot req's)

It is a high quality binder. I see a lot of guys talking it down on here...they are not for everyone...no worry's. But for those wanting an easier way, safer way, this just might be the binder for you. I am huge in the steel hauling industry and rental...sold over 12,000 units in just the last 2 years alone. Once you use them, you will not go back. Take care

Retired NYSP DOT Inspector here. I'm not familiar with WSTDA T-6 or ODOT. They sound like State agencies. The question is, have they been looked at and approved by the FMCSA Board for interstate commerce in all 50 States, and is there a specific ruling stating so? I'm neither endorsing nor bashing your product, just curious as to their legality. I don't see why they wouldn't be, but sometimes a bit of clarification settles the issue.

The WSTDA has been a trusted resource since formation as the Web Sling Association in 1973 and is recognized by the U.S. Department of Justice as a Standards Writing Organization. They write the standards for fmcsa. The fmcsa doesn't approve products, they approve the standards products must adhere to.

Oh my, please don't get dodgy when asked a respectful question. Has FMCSA looked at them, referenced them, said "aye, no or maybe" about them in any way, shape or form? I asked respectfully and didn't bash your product in anyway. A simple yes, with a reference citation, or no is all I was asking for. And FMSCA does reference specific type items in their interpretations and outlines when, when and if they are approved for use and also when they are not approved.
 
Its a grade 70 ratcheting load binder. Why would the fact it can be tightened with a drill change the WLL, which is all a load securing officer should really be concerned with.
AaronSEIA
 

Ok, Did not mean to be dodgy and you mentioned you were not familiar with who the wstda was. I simply copied and pasted who they were from their website and also mentioned that the fmcsa does not physically test binders or chains.

The following quote is taken from the columbus mckinnon website ( prolly the most respected load securement manufacturer on the planet)

LOAD SECUREMENT OvERviEw
Load securement, also known as tie-down or load binding, can be a complex rigging
application that often has strict specifications and regulations. CM offers a number of load
securement products, including load binders, binder chain assemblies and tie-down hooks,
that help you safely secure loads for transport as well as meet federal, state and Commerical
Vehicle Safety Alliance (CVSA) regulations. Our load securement products comply with the
National Association of Chain Manufacturers (NACM) Welded Steel Chain specifications
and the American Society of Testing and Materials (ASTM) specifications. They are also
designed to meet applicable Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) rules
for cargo securement.


Respectfully, please notice.....they "meet" fmcsa specs, they "comply" with nacm... I "meet" or " comply" fmcsa specs. WSTDA writes the specs the fmcsa references for tie down manufacturers to "meet". I'm am in contact with wstda to verify this as we speak. I will let you know what I find out. To the best of my knowledge the fmcsa doesn't evaluate or test chains and tie downs.

I hope I'm not coming across in a abrasive manner as that is not my intent. If you can show me a binder that has been certified or approved by the fcmsa, I will contact them and proceed to go through the same steps to acquire approval. It will do nothing but bring more legitimacy to my product but I don't think it works that way. Perhaps I'm wrong, I don't know but willing to do whatever it takes.
 

To me looking for FMCSA or DOT Approved/Certified is just like people saying "OSHA Approved". OSHA does not approve a hard hat from XYZ for example. They provide standards they want it to meet. The manufacturer is responsible to do what they need to do to meet and certify to those standards. OSHA oversees the use of the products, just as the FMCS/DOT does.

From the International Safety Equipment Association: "OSHA does not certify or approve any products. Any claim that a product is "OSHA approved" is misleading.
Product standards determine performance requirements, and certification indicates conformity to standards. How those products are installed and used in the workplace falls under OSHA.
OSHA standards and regulations may mandate the use of a product that meets a standard, but not specify how that product is certified. For example, the OSHA PPE standards require that hard hats, safety glasses and safety footwear meet specific ANSI standards; the OSHA respirator standard requires that products be NIOSH approved. OSHA officials often participate in the development of those standards, and ANSI and OSHA work in close cooperation.
For some products, such as electrical products in the workplace, OSHA requires third-party approval. When this is the case, it specifies the standards to which the products must be approved, and accredits test labs to certify to those standards. These labs are designated Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories, or NRTLs. Keep in mind, however, that OSHA does not require third-party approval for PPE. Therefore no lab even if it is an NRTL should claim to be recognized by OSHA to test and approve PPE."
 
(quoted from post at 12:47:34 02/21/20)
To me looking for FMCSA or DOT Approved/Certified is just like people saying "OSHA Approved". OSHA does not approve a hard hat from XYZ for example. They provide standards they want it to meet. The manufacturer is responsible to do what they need to do to meet and certify to those standards. OSHA oversees the use of the products, just as the FMCS/DOT does.

From the International Safety Equipment Association: "OSHA does not certify or approve any products. Any claim that a product is "OSHA approved" is misleading.
Product standards determine performance requirements, and certification indicates conformity to standards. How those products are installed and used in the workplace falls under OSHA.
OSHA standards and regulations may mandate the use of a product that meets a standard, but not specify how that product is certified. For example, the OSHA PPE standards require that hard hats, safety glasses and safety footwear meet specific ANSI standards; the OSHA respirator standard requires that products be NIOSH approved. OSHA officials often participate in the development of those standards, and ANSI and OSHA work in close cooperation.
For some products, such as electrical products in the workplace, OSHA requires third-party approval. When this is the case, it specifies the standards to which the products must be approved, and accredits test labs to certify to those standards. These labs are designated Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories, or NRTLs. Keep in mind, however, that OSHA does not require third-party approval for PPE. Therefore no lab even if it is an NRTL should claim to be recognized by OSHA to test and approve PPE."

Jim, Thank You.
 
(quoted from post at 17:45:58 02/20/20)
(quoted from post at 16:48:41 02/19/20)
(quoted from post at 09:33:23 02/19/20)
(quoted from post at 18:41:17 02/18/20)
(quoted from post at 13:24:09 02/18/20) Please post a link, not you tube, where
it states its illegal to use speed
binders. I can't find anything in DOT
regulations that says they are illegal.
Thanks. George

Hi George, Speedbinders are legal in every state. We are manufactured to wstda t-6 standards ( which is a higher standard than odot req's)

It is a high quality binder. I see a lot of guys talking it down on here...they are not for everyone...no worry's. But for those wanting an easier way, safer way, this just might be the binder for you. I am huge in the steel hauling industry and rental...sold over 12,000 units in just the last 2 years alone. Once you use them, you will not go back. Take care

Retired NYSP DOT Inspector here. I'm not familiar with WSTDA T-6 or ODOT. They sound like State agencies. The question is, have they been looked at and approved by the FMCSA Board for interstate commerce in all 50 States, and is there a specific ruling stating so? I'm neither endorsing nor bashing your product, just curious as to their legality. I don't see why they wouldn't be, but sometimes a bit of clarification settles the issue.

The WSTDA has been a trusted resource since formation as the Web Sling Association in 1973 and is recognized by the U.S. Department of Justice as a Standards Writing Organization. They write the standards for fmcsa. The fmcsa doesn't approve products, they approve the standards products must adhere to.

Oh my, please don't get dodgy when asked a respectful question. Has FMCSA looked at them, referenced them, said "aye, no or maybe" about them in any way, shape or form? I asked respectfully and didn't bash your product in anyway. A simple yes, with a reference citation, or no is all I was asking for. And FMSCA does reference specific type items in their interpretations and outlines when, when and if they are approved for use and also when they are not approved.

So YES, I MEET or COMPLY with FMCSA for all 50 states.
Here is the reply from wstda...

WSTDA Reply - fmcsa approval on products
Inbox
x

Bob Jasany
5:56 PM (5 minutes ago)
to Steven, Rene, Kristin

Mr. Helline,



Thank you for your inquiry to the Web Sling &amp; Tie Down Association regarding FMCSA approval of products.



FMCSA does not have a product approval process. In the case of chain binders they do require that the working load limit and manufacturer s designation be plainly marked on each binder. See Section 2.6 Markings found in the WSTDA Recommended Standard Specification For Load Binders Used With Chain Tie Downs WSTDA-T-6 for complete information on marking requirements.



For information on Joining WSTDA, including the membership application forms, go to www.wstda.com At the top of the Home Page click on Join WSTDA. Then click on the drop box selections for information and membership applications.



Thank you.

Bob



Robert S. Jasany

Technical Coordinator

WSTDA
 
(quoted from post at 16:47:34 02/21/20)
To me looking for FMCSA or DOT Approved/Certified is just like people saying "OSHA Approved". OSHA does not approve a hard hat from XYZ for example. They provide standards they want it to meet. The manufacturer is responsible to do what they need to do to meet and certify to those standards. OSHA oversees the use of the products, just as the FMCS/DOT does.

From the International Safety Equipment Association: "OSHA does not certify or approve any products. Any claim that a product is "OSHA approved" is misleading.
Product standards determine performance requirements, and certification indicates conformity to standards. How those products are installed and used in the workplace falls under OSHA.
OSHA standards and regulations may mandate the use of a product that meets a standard, but not specify how that product is certified. For example, the OSHA PPE standards require that hard hats, safety glasses and safety footwear meet specific ANSI standards; the OSHA respirator standard requires that products be NIOSH approved. OSHA officials often participate in the development of those standards, and ANSI and OSHA work in close cooperation.
For some products, such as electrical products in the workplace, OSHA requires third-party approval. When this is the case, it specifies the standards to which the products must be approved, and accredits test labs to certify to those standards. These labs are designated Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories, or NRTLs. Keep in mind, however, that OSHA does not require third-party approval for PPE. Therefore no lab even if it is an NRTL should claim to be recognized by OSHA to test and approve PPE."

Well, yes and no. I've worked with both the FMCSA regs and OSHA regs. Speaking specifically to FMCSA, they do spell out (often very specifically) what flies equipment wise and what doesn't. At least they did up to my retirement 10 years ago or so. I don't see it changing a lot over that time. When you get behind the scenes and look into the research involved in the rules changes and Interpretations, industry plays a major (THE major!) role in what goes on. If industry wants something, it usually happens. In the case of WLL they refer to the manufacturers markings but they also lay out some basic standards that make it clear that just because the Wong Foo company says their 1" strap is good for 10,000lbs WLL doesn't mean the guy on the side of the road has to buy that garbage. Believe it or not, there is a good deal of common sense in the FMCSA.
 
(quoted from post at 20:20:35 02/21/20)
(quoted from post at 17:45:58 02/20/20)
(quoted from post at 16:48:41 02/19/20)
(quoted from post at 09:33:23 02/19/20)
(quoted from post at 18:41:17 02/18/20)
(quoted from post at 13:24:09 02/18/20) Please post a link, not you tube, where
it states its illegal to use speed
binders. I can't find anything in DOT
regulations that says they are illegal.
Thanks. George

Hi George, Speedbinders are legal in every state. We are manufactured to wstda t-6 standards ( which is a higher standard than odot req's)

It is a high quality binder. I see a lot of guys talking it down on here...they are not for everyone...no worry's. But for those wanting an easier way, safer way, this just might be the binder for you. I am huge in the steel hauling industry and rental...sold over 12,000 units in just the last 2 years alone. Once you use them, you will not go back. Take care

Retired NYSP DOT Inspector here. I'm not familiar with WSTDA T-6 or ODOT. They sound like State agencies. The question is, have they been looked at and approved by the FMCSA Board for interstate commerce in all 50 States, and is there a specific ruling stating so? I'm neither endorsing nor bashing your product, just curious as to their legality. I don't see why they wouldn't be, but sometimes a bit of clarification settles the issue.

The WSTDA has been a trusted resource since formation as the Web Sling Association in 1973 and is recognized by the U.S. Department of Justice as a Standards Writing Organization. They write the standards for fmcsa. The fmcsa doesn't approve products, they approve the standards products must adhere to.

Oh my, please don't get dodgy when asked a respectful question. Has FMCSA looked at them, referenced them, said "aye, no or maybe" about them in any way, shape or form? I asked respectfully and didn't bash your product in anyway. A simple yes, with a reference citation, or no is all I was asking for. And FMSCA does reference specific type items in their interpretations and outlines when, when and if they are approved for use and also when they are not approved.

So YES, I MEET or COMPLY with FMCSA for all 50 states.
Here is the reply from wstda...

WSTDA Reply - fmcsa approval on products
Inbox
x

Bob Jasany
5:56 PM (5 minutes ago)
to Steven, Rene, Kristin

Mr. Helline,



Thank you for your inquiry to the Web Sling &amp; Tie Down Association regarding FMCSA approval of products.



FMCSA does not have a product approval process. In the case of chain binders they do require that the working load limit and manufacturer s designation be plainly marked on each binder. See Section 2.6 Markings found in the WSTDA Recommended Standard Specification For Load Binders Used With Chain Tie Downs WSTDA-T-6 for complete information on marking requirements.



For information on Joining WSTDA, including the membership application forms, go to www.wstda.com At the top of the Home Page click on Join WSTDA. Then click on the drop box selections for information and membership applications.



Thank you.

Bob



Robert S. Jasany

Technical Coordinator

WSTDA

Okay, so as I read that you don't belong to this WSTDA yet? That's fine. As I read it you've answered my question and, no, FMCSA hasn't said anything about or offered any opinion on your product. Thats all I was asking. If the FMSCA or a State DOT agency had offered some interpretation or approval of your product that would have silenced some of the detractors. As I said, I don't see why it wouldn't be good to go, but if a regulatory agency had made it plain they were good, as was done with automatic slack adjusters and various load securement systems years back(cross bars or friction matting for example), it would have cleared things up for you. I didn't take it as abrasive, but I didn't think it was a difficult question. My apologies if I wasn't clear in my thought process. Approval or an interpretation stating systems like yours are ok from an actual regulatory agency should clear the way for you. They had to do that with ratcheting binders years back.
 
(quoted from post at 17:14:48 02/23/20)
(quoted from post at 20:20:35 02/21/20)
(quoted from post at 17:45:58 02/20/20)
(quoted from post at 16:48:41 02/19/20)
(quoted from post at 09:33:23 02/19/20)
(quoted from post at 18:41:17 02/18/20)
(quoted from post at 13:24:09 02/18/20) Please post a link, not you tube, where
it states its illegal to use speed
binders. I can't find anything in DOT
regulations that says they are illegal.
Thanks. George

Hi George, Speedbinders are legal in every state. We are manufactured to wstda t-6 standards ( which is a higher standard than odot req's)

It is a high quality binder. I see a lot of guys talking it down on here...they are not for everyone...no worry's. But for those wanting an easier way, safer way, this just might be the binder for you. I am huge in the steel hauling industry and rental...sold over 12,000 units in just the last 2 years alone. Once you use them, you will not go back. Take care

Retired NYSP DOT Inspector here. I'm not familiar with WSTDA T-6 or ODOT. They sound like State agencies. The question is, have they been looked at and approved by the FMCSA Board for interstate commerce in all 50 States, and is there a specific ruling stating so? I'm neither endorsing nor bashing your product, just curious as to their legality. I don't see why they wouldn't be, but sometimes a bit of clarification settles the issue.

The WSTDA has been a trusted resource since formation as the Web Sling Association in 1973 and is recognized by the U.S. Department of Justice as a Standards Writing Organization. They write the standards for fmcsa. The fmcsa doesn't approve products, they approve the standards products must adhere to.

Oh my, please don't get dodgy when asked a respectful question. Has FMCSA looked at them, referenced them, said "aye, no or maybe" about them in any way, shape or form? I asked respectfully and didn't bash your product in anyway. A simple yes, with a reference citation, or no is all I was asking for. And FMSCA does reference specific type items in their interpretations and outlines when, when and if they are approved for use and also when they are not approved.

So YES, I MEET or COMPLY with FMCSA for all 50 states.
Here is the reply from wstda...

WSTDA Reply - fmcsa approval on products
Inbox
x

Bob Jasany
5:56 PM (5 minutes ago)
to Steven, Rene, Kristin

Mr. Helline,



Thank you for your inquiry to the Web Sling &amp; Tie Down Association regarding FMCSA approval of products.



FMCSA does not have a product approval process. In the case of chain binders they do require that the working load limit and manufacturer s designation be plainly marked on each binder. See Section 2.6 Markings found in the WSTDA Recommended Standard Specification For Load Binders Used With Chain Tie Downs WSTDA-T-6 for complete information on marking requirements.



For information on Joining WSTDA, including the membership application forms, go to www.wstda.com At the top of the Home Page click on Join WSTDA. Then click on the drop box selections for information and membership applications.



Thank you.

Bob



Robert S. Jasany

Technical Coordinator

WSTDA

Okay, so as I read that you don't belong to this WSTDA yet? That's fine. As I read it you've answered my question and, no, FMCSA hasn't said anything about or offered any opinion on your product. Thats all I was asking. If the FMSCA or a State DOT agency had offered some interpretation or approval of your product that would have silenced some of the detractors. As I said, I don't see why it wouldn't be good to go, but if a regulatory agency had made it plain they were good, as was done with automatic slack adjusters and various load securement systems years back(cross bars or friction matting for example), it would have cleared things up for you. I didn't take it as abrasive, but I didn't think it was a difficult question. My apologies if I wasn't clear in my thought process. Approval or an interpretation stating systems like yours are ok from an actual regulatory agency should clear the way for you. They had to do that with ratcheting binders years back.

Well, it was a very difficult question with many consequences. At least from a manufacturer and company owner view. You had me at a catch 22. If I answer your question the way it was asked, wanting a yes or no answer. I would be putting out there that, no, fmcsa has not looked at my product and hasn't approved it. So as a manufacturer, that statement would be detrimental to sales if someone would conduct a web search for dot / fmcsa approval for speedbinders. The question was unfair to me because I knew that fmcsa did not evaluate binders and answering your question the way you wanted, out of context was unfair to me, my company, my employees, my vendors and existing customers. The consequences are too dire and unjustified. So, I thought explaining the process / definition of what it actually means to meet fmcsa was more a more fair, productive road. I had to be careful on answering it. You saw it as a simple yes or no. It wasn't. Your initial response was a bit "snarky"...I think you would agree. Perhaps this explanation from a business view better explains why it wasn't so simple. I hope you understand. Take Care, thank you for your service.
 
(quoted from post at 22:11:02 02/23/20)
(quoted from post at 17:14:48 02/23/20)
(quoted from post at 20:20:35 02/21/20)
(quoted from post at 17:45:58 02/20/20)
(quoted from post at 16:48:41 02/19/20)
(quoted from post at 09:33:23 02/19/20)
(quoted from post at 18:41:17 02/18/20)
(quoted from post at 13:24:09 02/18/20) Please post a link, not you tube, where
it states its illegal to use speed
binders. I can't find anything in DOT
regulations that says they are illegal.
Thanks. George

Hi George, Speedbinders are legal in every state. We are manufactured to wstda t-6 standards ( which is a higher standard than odot req's)

It is a high quality binder. I see a lot of guys talking it down on here...they are not for everyone...no worry's. But for those wanting an easier way, safer way, this just might be the binder for you. I am huge in the steel hauling industry and rental...sold over 12,000 units in just the last 2 years alone. Once you use them, you will not go back. Take care

Retired NYSP DOT Inspector here. I'm not familiar with WSTDA T-6 or ODOT. They sound like State agencies. The question is, have they been looked at and approved by the FMCSA Board for interstate commerce in all 50 States, and is there a specific ruling stating so? I'm neither endorsing nor bashing your product, just curious as to their legality. I don't see why they wouldn't be, but sometimes a bit of clarification settles the issue.

The WSTDA has been a trusted resource since formation as the Web Sling Association in 1973 and is recognized by the U.S. Department of Justice as a Standards Writing Organization. They write the standards for fmcsa. The fmcsa doesn't approve products, they approve the standards products must adhere to.

Oh my, please don't get dodgy when asked a respectful question. Has FMCSA looked at them, referenced them, said "aye, no or maybe" about them in any way, shape or form? I asked respectfully and didn't bash your product in anyway. A simple yes, with a reference citation, or no is all I was asking for. And FMSCA does reference specific type items in their interpretations and outlines when, when and if they are approved for use and also when they are not approved.

So YES, I MEET or COMPLY with FMCSA for all 50 states.
Here is the reply from wstda...

WSTDA Reply - fmcsa approval on products
Inbox
x

Bob Jasany
5:56 PM (5 minutes ago)
to Steven, Rene, Kristin

Mr. Helline,



Thank you for your inquiry to the Web Sling &amp; Tie Down Association regarding FMCSA approval of products.



FMCSA does not have a product approval process. In the case of chain binders they do require that the working load limit and manufacturer s designation be plainly marked on each binder. See Section 2.6 Markings found in the WSTDA Recommended Standard Specification For Load Binders Used With Chain Tie Downs WSTDA-T-6 for complete information on marking requirements.



For information on Joining WSTDA, including the membership application forms, go to www.wstda.com At the top of the Home Page click on Join WSTDA. Then click on the drop box selections for information and membership applications.



Thank you.

Bob



Robert S. Jasany

Technical Coordinator

WSTDA

Okay, so as I read that you don't belong to this WSTDA yet? That's fine. As I read it you've answered my question and, no, FMCSA hasn't said anything about or offered any opinion on your product. Thats all I was asking. If the FMSCA or a State DOT agency had offered some interpretation or approval of your product that would have silenced some of the detractors. As I said, I don't see why it wouldn't be good to go, but if a regulatory agency had made it plain they were good, as was done with automatic slack adjusters and various load securement systems years back(cross bars or friction matting for example), it would have cleared things up for you. I didn't take it as abrasive, but I didn't think it was a difficult question. My apologies if I wasn't clear in my thought process. Approval or an interpretation stating systems like yours are ok from an actual regulatory agency should clear the way for you. They had to do that with ratcheting binders years back.

Well, it was a very difficult question with many consequences. At least from a manufacturer and company owner view. You had me at a catch 22. If I answer your question the way it was asked, wanting a yes or no answer. I would be putting out there that, no, fmcsa has not looked at my product and hasn't approved it. So as a manufacturer, that statement would be detrimental to sales if someone would conduct a web search for dot / fmcsa approval for speedbinders. The question was unfair to me because I knew that fmcsa did not evaluate binders and answering your question the way you wanted, out of context was unfair to me, my company, my employees, my vendors and existing customers. The consequences are too dire and unjustified. So, I thought explaining the process / definition of what it actually means to meet fmcsa was more a more fair, productive road. I had to be careful on answering it. You saw it as a simple yes or no. It wasn't. Your initial response was a bit "snarky"...I think you would agree. Perhaps this explanation from a business view better explains why it wasn't so simple. I hope you understand. Take Care, thank you for your service.

You read my initial question as "snarky", I wrote it as, "Gee, if this guy has some approval one way or the other from some agency then that should stop the nay saying and boost his sales." When you avoided the question from someone who has been on the enforcement end, it sets off bells and whistles. Glad it's straightened out. Good luck with your product! I wish you success!
 

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