IH Loadstar with Dump Bed---345 CID motor and no brakes

RedMF40

Well-known Member
Checked the truck today that I posted about in Tales. Has the 345, easily verified from the helpful information others gave. Was stamped right on that block behind the fuel pump.

Really surprised by the minimalist approach to stopping this truck was given. All the brakes are hanging off that one little line? See photo. I guess you could yank on that big parking brake if you got into trouble and hope that works. At the moment, it wouldn't.

So the pedal goes to the floor, no resistance. How would you go about building pedal pressure? Take off wheels and start knocking on brake parts, or just dump fluid in the little reservoir and give that a try? Or neither? Truck has currently been sitting for eight years. Thought it was longer at first.
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Since the master cylinder is the heart of things, and looks really nasty, I'd put on a new one. Then pull every drum and look for leaks, fix any that appear, make sure there is 'enough' lining on the shoes. Fix anything that looks wrong while the drums are off, the assemble, bleed and adjust.
 
Yep new or reman master cyl, booster and all new wheel cyls and there is 2 per wheel plus flex lines and maybe some steel ones. That's what I got into making brakes work on F700 Ford that had setting for several years.
 
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but getting the brakes going is going to be a timely and costly
project. EVEN IF you were to get lucky and that master cylinder not be dried out you still have a
brake booster there under the left cab and it will most likely be dried out. Only thing to do is
START at the master cylinder and work back. After you get it running you can go to the booster then
on to the wheel cylinders. Money and time all it take.
 
Probably has a Hydravac booster hanging underneath somewhere. Those leak internally after time and pass fluid. As with most juice brake systems on trucks that sit,
you're most likely going to have to go through all from front to back.
 
Id start simple. Fill the master cylinder with brake fluid and see what happens. The very least it could do is work but on the other hand it may no but then you can pump the brakes and see if pressure will build up or if it leaks some place. Then trouble shoot from there. I have a 1965 Ford 1 ton that had bad brakes. You can fill the master up and the brake might work once or twice then nothing due to a bad master cylinder. It too has a dump bed
 
I'd suggest the following... make a list of everything you might need, and find what is available first. You might find a lot of stuff that would be common to find for a Ford or GM is difficult to find or
unavailable for Internationals. I had a REALLY hard time finding hydraulic brake parts for a 1980 IH a couple years ago.
 
Late International trucks are a challenge to get the right parts for. Seems the IH parts information & stuff got lost in a massive black hole for any younger parts guys. You need
to do a major brake job if it's been sitting that long. Stopping is more of an issue than going. That being said the 345 and the other CID members of the International V-8 gas
engine family were pretty much bullet-proof engines.
 
That little line from the master down, the lower part, unless changed is rubber, it gets hard and falls apart with age, if it is rubber, replace it.
 
Fill I it with fluid and get a helper and try and bleed it.Hopefully you can get the bleeders loose.I have a one just like it.The booster is under neath on the left side.Try it you might get lucky.
 
We have got about 6 07 running here on the farm , one dates all the way back to 1961 and I have never had any problem getting brake parts, IH makes it easy they have a line setting ticket in the truck tell you exactly what axle ect is in the unit. Most time NAPA is our source.
 
I would start making a list.

Check the fluids, get it running, get an idea what condition the engine is in, try to get it moving, carefully drive it around off road, just to see if it will move, listen to the drive train.

From that information, see if it is still an economically feasible project.

After sitting that long, the brakes will need to be completely gone through,includingall flex hoses and any lines that show rust. If you put brake fluid in the master cylinder, chances are it will leak at the wheel cylinders and soak the brake shoes, ruining them.

The master cylinder and wheel cylinders should have casting numbers. A good old school auto supply or a truck supply should have cross reference books. Go by the casting numbers, there could be many different brake options on the truck.

The Hydrovac will have an ID tag. Go by that tag. It needs to match the rest of the brake system. Trying to go by a model and year application is risky.
 
That cab is really in nice shape. I think if that truck runs, it is certainly worth fixing the brakes, what ever it takes. If you need a truck like that, it would be worth the expence even though you may not
get your money back for the brake expence.
 
We had 3 of these loadstars with the gull wing
hoods brakes would always take a little work every
fall getting bled and going but nothing to serious I
found on the ih pickups at least they uses a lot of
parts from other vehicles that were obsolete at the
time the truck was built . I had a 1210-8 and needed
a u joint for the shaft between the transmission and
transfer case turns out it took for a model t Ford
 
Common complaint by EVERYONE trying to keep an old truck like that running is what a problem getting and
keeping the juice brakes working is. IH, Chevy, GMC, Ford, Dodge, doesn't make a difference, they're ALL
the same. Plus Mr. GOODWRENCH, guy that was the repair shop manager for the trucking co. I drove for
almost 40 years ago, had been repair shop manager at an IH heavy truck dealership for years before that,
said that "IH built hundreds and hundreds of thousands of trucks, and they NEVER built any two exactly
alike, even consecutive serial numbers." Just makes getting one running and especially stopping, That
much harder.
The line set ticket mentioned before is very important, but chances are it's long gone. Copies can be
bought if you supply the truck's serial number. Think it's $20-$25 but I can't remember if it's the
Wisconsin Historical Society in Madison or one of the IH truck & Scout parts suppliers. Somebody on the
Red Power Truck forum can tell you how to get one.
 
I agree with your thoughts. Reading the other responses doesn't anyone rebuild their own master/wheel cylinders anymore? I know kits aren't as easy to find these days but I still do it on my old stuff.
 
Fixes will be temporary on a brake system that old.New part in another old part needs replacing.Probably better to redo the whole brake system to start with if the truck is worth that much to you.
 
Look at rock auto they usually have parts for a truck
like this cheap if they have a booster get it to
usually sitting these go bad
 
Thanks for the replies, gives me something to think about. I am into this truck for zero money right now but I agree it probably needs whole brake system rebuilt. I'll assume that's the case and see what parts are available and the cost. Other thing is I am not speedy with repairs, even on my light car or truck, let alone a big truck like this. I imagine the return springs must be massive on the brake shoes. Routine work for some people, not for me. Would like to at least get it running, take it from there. Motor turns freely, haven't checked for spark yet. Truck is ten miles from my house, heavy duty wrecker wants $500 to move it that far, just probably their minimum charge for showing up. My thinking is $500 might buy me a good many brake parts and other items I need to get it going. So that's where I am right now. Again, thanks for the helpful comments.....Gerrit in Maryland
 
Many long years ago I bought an old Morgan Driveaway trailer toter .A 1600 IH with 350000 plus miles on it. I used it another 5 years and sold it that
they made a water well rig out of it. I don't think the engine was ever had to be gone into to be repaired. 345 were good.
 
Well when it comes to JUICE brakes on OLD 1 1/2 - 2 ton trucks they can be a night mare . Myself i have worked on them for many MOONS . And it all comes down to the fact they are a pain in the drain. Many people have experienced the NO brakes or they could not stop . And the parking brake is NOT a emergences panic brake , as i have seen them sheared off when someone has tried to use it , you even lucky if the will hold a loaded truck on a hill. So where do you start to FIX the brakes on and old truck that has been sitting ????? Ya start at the brake pedal and you rebuild replace EVERYTHING . And when you get to the wheels you will more then likely discover the bake adjusters are FROZEN SOLID and someone has tried to FORCE them only to shear off the star wheel . You will find dual cylinders on all wheels along with dual adjusters and these old brakes are NON self adjusting and olearning how to adjust them correctly has become a lost art . On these OLD systems when you start to have to PUMP the brake pedal your brakes need adjustment . Old Farm trucks that set are always a nightmare with brakes , like said above frozen brake adjuster and not being able to adjust , and the first thing you here from people is the Hydrovac is your problem Nope it is JUSt BRAKE ADJUSTMENT . Newer 1 1/2 -2 ton's with JUICE brakes now come with a dual system , some are even disc. A lot better then the old systems . Myself if it does not have AIR brakes i don't want it , i will not own it . And they have to be a S cam brake , No wedge loc or stop master style .
 
Couldn't he change over to a 2 compartment or a pair of master cylinders and split the lines between front and rear axles ?
I looked into this for my '64 F 600 years ago, never followed up on it, but at least then you still have a chance only one axle fails, that is a lonely feeling when there is nothing at the pedal LOL !
 
(quoted from post at 09:45:48 02/17/20) Well when it comes to JUICE brakes on OLD 1 1/2 - 2 ton trucks they can be a night mare . Myself i have worked on them for many MOONS . And it all comes down to the fact they are a pain in the drain. Many people have experienced the NO brakes or they could not stop . And the parking brake is NOT a emergences panic brake , as i have seen them sheared off when someone has tried to use it , you even lucky if the will hold a loaded truck on a hill. So where do you start to FIX the brakes on and old truck that has been sitting ????? Ya start at the brake pedal and you rebuild replace EVERYTHING . And when you get to the wheels you will more then likely discover the bake adjusters are FROZEN SOLID and someone has tried to FORCE them only to shear off the star wheel . You will find dual cylinders on all wheels along with dual adjusters and these old brakes are NON self adjusting and olearning how to adjust them correctly has become a lost art . On these OLD systems when you start to have to PUMP the brake pedal your brakes need adjustment . Old Farm trucks that set are always a nightmare with brakes , like said above frozen brake adjuster and not being able to adjust , and the first thing you here from people is the Hydrovac is your problem Nope it is JUSt BRAKE ADJUSTMENT . Newer 1 1/2 -2 ton's with JUICE brakes now come with a dual system , some are even disc. A lot better then the old systems . Myself if it does not have AIR brakes i don't want it , i will not own it . And they have to be a S cam brake , No wedge loc or stop master style .

Sounds like you really know brakes, thanks for the comments. I know enough about them that I don't like working on them and I'm sure they didn't make it easy when they built this truck. Brakes were probably marginal at best even when new.
 
The really old cylinders, thinking 50's back, must have had a different alloy. They would usually hone out and clean up.

The newer ones tend to rust pit beyond use.

The rare ones can be sent to a rebuilder and be plated back to original size and perfect finish.
 

I'll hide this here at the end of this thread: Decided to pass on the dump bed IH Loadstar that's been sitting for about 8 years. As someone mentioned, the cab is in darned good shape for that year truck. Even peeled up the rubber floor mat and there was minimal rust underneath. BIG mice nest in glove box. Big. Vinyl on the big bench seat looked ok, too. I'll see if I can dig up some more pics and put them here. Headliner coming down but I would have torn that out anyway along with the rubber mats. I like to see steel in old trucks, get scared what might be underneath those floor mats. Could probably revive the motor with minimal effort but the main thing was those brakes. No fluid in the reservoir, old clunky design that was not that safe to begin with, and I could just picture this big truck sitting at my place all taken apart with wheels everywhere, brake parts sitting around and no end in sight. At auction I'd expect a truck like this, even driven in under its own power, to sell for no more than a grand. I am thinking maybe $2K to get it safely down the road with still more work to be done. Thanks for the realistic replies, I'll check for photos and post here.
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(quoted from post at 19:35:26 02/17/20)
Yes, you can spend a lot keeping these hold Hydraulic brakes working. But I've nver had a problem getting parts for my 71 Loadstar. Only exception was a front brake drum. They are not available anywhere except a wrecker. Wheel cylinders are usually pitted beyond rebuilding so I just buy the whole cylinder. Two per wheel. I think I've replaced pretty well everything on the brakes over the 36 years I've driven the truck. Well over 100,000 on it but it gets the job done.
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(quoted from post at 23:04:57 02/17/20)
(quoted from post at 19:35:26 02/17/20)

That's a really nice looking truck. No rust? I like that body style better but I have to say that tilt hood on the later models makes it a LOT easier to get to the motor and everything up front.

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(quoted from post at 14:48:04 02/18/20)
(quoted from post at 23:04:57 02/17/20)
(quoted from post at 19:35:26 02/17/20)

That's a really nice looking truck. No rust? I like that body style better but I have to say that tilt hood on the later models makes it a LOT easier to get to the motor and everything up front.
Pretty much zero rust on this one. It has not seen a lot of road salt in it's life and always parked indoors when not in use. No doubt a tilt hood is a big advantage for engine access.
 

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