Natural gas

37 chief

Well-known Member
Are any tractors operated on liquefied natural gas, like propane? How is natural gad extracted from the earth. There must be a bunch down there. Stan
 
According to Google, Natural gas has to be cooled to -265 degrees Fahrenheit to become a liquid. I don't think that would make it a viable fuel for a tractor.
 
Some citys run their mass transit systems and city vehicles on it. There is some over the road tractors out there. They have there tanks behind cab, can tell by gauges on drivers side.
 
Our natural gas vehicles(service vans & cars) had two tanks at 3600 PSI to drive in the 80-100 mi/day range. More tanks for more range. Compressor & storage cascade took up 80 sf for fast fill operation. Minimum inlet pressure at 50 psi to compressor. Octane of natural gas close to 130, therefor timing needed adjusted to take advantage of higher octane to achieve efficiency.
 
Why not?

NG is mostly methane, then ethane, then propane.

I work on liquefied natural gas facilities, it does take more energy to take it down to that cold.
 
(quoted from post at 19:46:12 02/15/20) According to Google, Natural gas has to be cooled to -265 degrees Fahrenheit to become a liquid. I don't think that would make it a viable fuel for a tractor.

In reality, CNG doesn't have to be kept "cold" but to contain it at room temperature, the tank has to be strong enough to deal with pressures of 2,9003,600 psi, and that's at "room temperature".

Some years ago, I toured a university lab that worked with alternative fuels, and they were using some sort of carbon fiber tanks (to save weight).

I can't remember how many were made (by a supplier) in a batch, but a high percentage were were "destructively tested" or cut up to verify quality.
 
Hello 37 chief,

Our city trash trucks are powered by natural gas, they make less noise running then a gas engine,

Guido.
 
While that may be the correct temperature for natural gas to remain liquid, that is at atmospheric pressure. In a tank, it is pressurized to 3600 psi, which will enable it to remain a liquid at the ambient temperature of its surroundings.
 
we have oil rigs that run on natural gas once set up on a pad for drilling and sit there for some time. also have them hooked to high line power too.
 
Natural gas is extracted in the same way as oil. It is sometimes from an all natural gas well. More frequently it is produced from the same wells as oil. Most wells produce gas,oil,and water. In offshore production the water is separated from the oil and gas. With the oil and gas being sent to the shore.
 
Natural gas is composed of about a dozen gasses, here is the "normal" composition

Methane 80%
Ethane 10%
Propane 4%
Butane 2%
Others about .1% each

Remember each gas liquifies at different temperature.
 
(quoted from post at 17:37:36 02/15/20) Are any tractors operated on liquefied natural gas, like propane? How is natural gad extracted from the earth. There must be a bunch down there. Stan

Natural gas is not like propane. I don't believe there would be any tractors operated on liquefied natural gas (methane). There are cars and over the road trucks that operate on compressed natural gas. The pressurized (aproximately 3000 Psi is common) tanks hold only gas, there is no liquid in the tanks. Natural gas is not easily liquefied as is propane. To liquefy natural gas it must first be cooled to it's critical temperature, minus 117 degrees F. Then it must be pressurized to it's critical pressure, 668 Psi. Now you can begin the liquefication process. As if that is not a big enough problem, the liquid must be maintained in a cold state. Natural gas begins to boil at minus 259 degrees F, at 100 degrees F the vapor pressure will be approximately 5000 Psi.

In comparison propane is easily liquefied and has a vapor pressure of 190 Psi at 100 degrees F.

Natural gas is obtained similar to crude oil; by drilling a well. Many times the natural gas is present with the crude oil and must be removed/managed before the crude oil is recovered. In the days before there was a market for natural gas it was sent to large flares and simply burned.

Yes, we have a lot of natural gas.
 
I have a friend that drives for the Omaha 'Metro' bus system-city bus. They got several buses that run on CNG. Had not figured out that they will only run a half a day between fueling! They started a set up at the bus barn to fuel them there, but it is not operational as yet. SO, these buses have to be on certain routes so that the mechanic can take them, in the middle of the day, probably 10 miles to a CNG station. At this point in time they are anything but efficient in Omaha!
 
Terre Haute tried CNG busses. Found out
diesel was cheaper. Too many maintenance
issues.
This was many years ago. Perhaps they
have solved the mechanical problems.

CNG has been around for decades. Large
tanks are equilivant to a few gallons of
gas.
George
 
Propane IS natural gas; it's just been refined so the lighter gasses have been removed, making it easier to liquify. The problem with natural gas is that it's not practical to liquefy it, so natural gas vehicles use COMPRESSED, not liquified gas. So the tanks have to be large and stout, and they don't have nearly the range as similar-sized LPG tanks. And you need an expensive compressor to fill a CNG tank.

CNG makes a lot of sense for fleet vehicles that are refueled in a central location and don't need to range far from that location.

Some yachts use exchangeable natural gas tanks; CNG can be safely stored below deck, while LPG has to be stored above deck. Maybe exchangeable tanks would be a solution for smaller tractor and industrial vehicles.
 
(quoted from post at 21:42:28 02/15/20) While that may be the correct temperature for natural gas to remain liquid, that is at atmospheric pressure. In a tank, it is pressurized to 3600 psi, which will enable it to remain a liquid at the ambient temperature of its surroundings.

Wrong . This is NG not LP.
 
(quoted from post at 19:37:36 02/15/20) Are any tractors operated on liquefied natural gas, like propane? How is natural gad extracted from the earth. There must be a bunch down there. Stan

Had a customer with a few full size GM vans running on NG.

The tank took up half of the cargo area and did not hold enough to get through a day without refueling.

He had never ending cylinder head problems with them, finally gave up and switched them over to gasoline.
 
LPG (liquid propane gas) and LNG (liquid natural gas) are two completely different fuels. Furnaces and grills use different orifices to change the air/fuel ratio between the two fuels.

LPG has been used in some tractors and a few vehicles since WW2.
 
At work we vaporize propane to run in engines. In fact I am working on a gas regulator as we speak.
 
> LPG (liquid propane gas) and LNG (liquid natural gas) are two completely different fuels. Furnaces and grills use different orifices to change the air/fuel ratio between the two fuels.

> LPG has been used in some tractors and a few vehicles since WW2.

Re-read my post. I spoke only of LPG (liquified PETROLEUM gas, aka propane) and CNG (compressed natural gas). I did not mention LNG, as it's not practical as a motor fuel. LNG is primarily used as a means to transport natural gas overseas in tankers.
 
Reading this thread in modern view is funny.

You can tell which posters are doing so via classic, not having read any of the other replies to the original post.

Over and over again and all of the contradictory answers to the original guestion.
 
St. Cloud Mn (where I live) uses CNG buses. The tanks are on the roofs and are substantial. The buses are New Flyer brand, made just south of St. Cloud. It is a Canadian Company. The buses are 4 cylinder turbocharged high compression design with waste gates. they are very nice, I ride them to and from work every day. 2/3 of the fuel is used per day. There are only 5 or so diesels running on fixed routes. Jim
 

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