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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Anybody tried this kind of welding project?

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tractorcedric

01-16-2020 17:18:34




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Bought this little Massey 22 with three point a few years ago. I decided to see if I could get it to hold water. It runs good and only needed a battery to get it running. But some time in the past someone let it freeze. I have the engine out and have it in front of my wood stove. So it is laying on its side on my work horses. I have some nickel 55 and a buss box. Give me some pointers?

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gene bender

01-19-2020 15:12:32




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
I would use the rubber cement they use for windshields. I repaired a block on a B Farmall with a crack like that. Did it on a hot day with sunshine and the block was very warm let it cure in the sun for couple days never did leak again used it for many yrs tractor rides ect still holding . Worth a try still could weld if it didn't pan out.Used a small roller to smothout then later did paint the engine and you need to look hard to even see where the repair was made. That was 15 yrs ago and still no leak. Material came in a blue and white tube got it from a friend who buys wrecked and restores he said try it so I did and would again.

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GregInCO

01-17-2020 19:14:03




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
As mentioned Devcon works great. Iíve used it on a few cracked blocks and it holds the life of the engine. I have also used nickel rod on a stick welder with great results, and last but not least I have brazed them as well with equally good results. Weld or braze an inch or so and peen it and weld or braze more and peen again until you get to the end. I also drill the ends of the cracks to stop them from spreading. I wish I had a picture of a pedestal of an old Deere model A that got drove into ditch and broke the casting. We ground it out and preheated it and brazed it. It held forever. We finished wearing out the tractor and the front end never broke.

Greg

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gregww

01-17-2020 14:52:04




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
Whatever you decide to do or have done, I hope you show the results.



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rustred

01-17-2020 08:17:41




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
Ooh my god ! For u to do it , use Devcon. It will seal better than any welding u can do to that !!looks like u need grinder lessons along with welding lessons. No harshness here just the truth.



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dr sportster

01-17-2020 07:52:12




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
I have read that an acceptable cast iron repair can be made with MIG . I would MIG weld it Pre heat post heat , peen too.



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welding man

01-17-2020 05:33:28




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
At $35.00 a pound for nickel rod. I'd say you are wasting your money. In the last 50 years, I probably have repaired more cast iron than anyone else on this forum, except for George MD and welding ain't the way to fix that mess and that is all I will say. The more you weld, the more it will crack and then the head gasket will leak too. But it's your block, your time and your money. Give it a whirl.

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matthies

01-17-2020 05:32:55




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
Looks like you tried to weld it and then ground it out for us to figure out. sorry :)



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tractorcedric

01-17-2020 07:37:05




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to matthies, 01-17-2020 05:32:55  
Well somebody else tried to weld it before I got it.



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Mark-IA

01-17-2020 05:24:14




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
I prefer Nickel 99 for welding cast like that.



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tractorcedric

01-18-2020 09:07:01




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to Mark-IA, 01-17-2020 05:24:14  
Why 99?



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Clarence Slydell

01-17-2020 05:19:57




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

No, no, no, no, no, no. And no some more. Do not do this! NO!!!

Good way to get yourself sick or dead.



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Wheat47

01-16-2020 21:06:14




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
For the peening, I use the small needle scaler that Horrible Freight sells.
It worked for me, anyway.



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Mutt and Jeff

01-17-2020 03:41:43




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to Wheat47, 01-16-2020 21:06:14  
if you hadn't ground it all out I might try the drill and install little tapered pins. just stitch it. That's how we repaired cylinder heads.

If you have a large enough torch (rosebud) and can get it hot enough to flow brass. Braze it.

if you insist on "TRYING" some nickel rod on the arc welder I am sure you will recieve more than enough "pointers"

And if you find you just burned the hole bigger that ever.

replace the part

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Russ from MN

01-16-2020 20:46:21




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
I repaired a Farmall A once that was worse than that, like someone else said, preheat, weld a 1/2 inch (with nickel) and peen, (with a ball peen hammer). It leaked just a little when I was done so I put some Barr's stop leak in it and it was good for 10 years, then I sold it.



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gregww

01-16-2020 20:26:16




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
Might be wrong, but looks like more cracks in blue area.



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tractorcedric

01-17-2020 09:09:46




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to gregww, 01-16-2020 20:26:16  
Good eye! Yes there is a crack there too. I did not intend to start a war. I did not think this would be so controversial. I don't deny that I need grinding and welding lessons. And the comments about breathing the fumes really got my attention. Thanks to everyone!



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Thehickdaddy

01-17-2020 21:02:35




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-17-2020 09:09:46  
Isnt it amazing what starts a war on here and what gets no comments at all?



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JTWAT

01-16-2020 19:30:55




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
Look at www.muggyweld.com
They have some videos and rods for repairing cast.



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tractorcedric

01-16-2020 20:48:26




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to JTWAT, 01-16-2020 19:30:55  
Some neat video on muggyweld. I will see if I can drill and tap the ends of the crack. Someone else had already been welding on it. I have another engine if this don't work. Thanks for every ones replies!



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tom upton

01-16-2020 19:11:57




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
If you hadn't of ground it out already I would have used lock and stitch method. Now that you have ground I would pick Belzona as the next best, But first drill and tap a 1/16 or 1/8 NPT hole at each end of crack and locktite a pipe plug in, and grind it off flush. Google Belzona cast iron crack repair. I have used it a lot at work and as long as you have repair area prepped the way they say it is amazing how well it sticks. If you are bent on welding it then still drill a small hole at each end of crack, but not all the way thru to stop crack from propagating farther. Make sure joint is clean and well prepared ( picture looks like you have it grooved out fairly well) Run torch over joint to warm but not heat. Just after you shut torch off you need to be able to put your hand on for a second and not get burnt so I am going to say 200 degrees F or so. This also helps to burn out any crap in root of joint that your wire brush does not get out. I have also washed down with brake cleaner before but depends on if there is crap in joint. Your 55% nickel sounds like the right rod, run it as low as you can but still get a good wetting/fusion action. If you have not welded grey cast iron before you may want to practice on another old piece? I would start welding progression from the ends of crack towards the center. Weld a short bead maybe 1/2 to 3/4 inch max. Have a chipping hammer that is well worn/rounded on the end and peen the weld and surrounding cast to relieve the stresses induced by the welding.( peen it a lot, all around the heat affected zone on the weld itself and an inch or so each side of weld. you wont peen it too much) Before putting another short bead down make sure cooled to a point where you can put your bare hand on weld zone without getting burnt. When you have completed joint peen it all around until you think you have done enough than do it some more. There is probably a pile of info on you tube etc. on welding engine blocks. At the end of the day you do need to be a decent welder to do this so not knowing your experience level I cant comment on whether you will be successful?

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3000OH

01-17-2020 04:58:13




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tom upton, 01-16-2020 19:11:57  
Chlorinated brake cleaner + arc welding = good chance at being dead. More than a few cautions about it on welding pages.



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tom upton

01-17-2020 14:22:54




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to 3000OH, 01-17-2020 04:58:13  
WOW you are right on I had no idea! I have always used chlorinated pre weld as non flammable. Thank you so much for pointing this out. I have been welding for 40 plus years and did not know about the deadly gas created by heating chlorinated brake cleaner. I feel pretty darn stupid.



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MJ in the UK

01-17-2020 02:49:58




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tom upton, 01-16-2020 19:11:57  
I would also use Belzona as I have used it many times on cracked blocks with great results. MJ



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el6147

01-16-2020 19:11:16




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
send me an email and I'll explain to you how to weld it using you nickel rod.



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jon f mn

01-16-2020 18:44:23




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
You should never argue with George md when it comes to cast iron welding. And I know the loc-n-stitch works. But since you already ground it, and it looks too deep for that I would plate over it. Looks to me like there is enough before the flange so you could get a plate formed to cover the crack and drill and tap holes all around it to bolt it on. You will have to carefully form around that bump where the frost plug is, but it can be done if your careful.

Otherwise you can weld it. I would just weld it in short 1" welds and peen it well after each. The peening will help relieve the stress and help prevent cracking. If you don't have a real chipping hammer go buy one because that will be important. When it's all welded cover it with a good blanket to help it cool slow.

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db4600

01-16-2020 20:13:55




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to jon f mn, 01-16-2020 18:44:23  
Jon have you used sand to cool down? We had a vein of brown blow sand down by the rail road track. Pa had a few buckets stashed. He would set them on the stove and bed the warm cast with warm sand for cool down. A bit messy in some cases, but sand filled the profiles better than blanket.



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jon f mn

01-17-2020 01:53:09




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to db4600, 01-16-2020 20:13:55  
I have never used it, but then I never did a job where it would help either. If you warmed it like that I would think it would work good. I can't see how it would help much to use it cool like most do tho. I'm not great at cast as some are so my advice should be taken with care.



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db4600

01-17-2020 04:41:24




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to jon f mn, 01-17-2020 01:53:09  
Point taken. Bit of a novice myself.



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george md

01-16-2020 18:28:00




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
In the real world ,if you want to screw up a cast iron repair : arc weld it. That way you can chase cracks till the cows come home. Best repair for that is the lock n stitch repair pins . If you have

not ground so deep that there is nothing left to thread ,you might

be able to use iron tite pins.

I do my share of cast iron repair.



showing cracks in 427 side oiler
Ford block, it froze

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db4600

01-16-2020 18:25:04




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
From your explanation it sounds as you got into it reasonable so you ambitions arenít out of line. I watched Pa weld many a piece of cast. Some he brazed, but mostly Nickel rod. Clean, heat, weld, peen, weld, peen etc. Let it cool down slow. Iíve seen Pa weld engine block, gear box, sprockets, but the best was the rock shaft on a 670 MM in the tractor. País been gone for 25 years. He welded the tractor 40 years ago and itís still operating with the same owner. Pa was a dairy farmer with a dirt floor shop and patience. Maybe smoking that filter less Pall-Mall between rods had something to do with it.

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Andy C

01-16-2020 18:13:43




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
if you can carefully find the ends of the crack, drill a 1/8 or so hole at the ends. this will relieve the stress to help keep the crack from progressing. finding the ends is imperative.



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47fivewindow

01-16-2020 18:08:09




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
That's way over my head. I have seen it done in the frame, heating with a torch and welding a little at a time. Weld and chip, weld and chip. He drilled a small hole at each end of the crack.



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svcummins

01-16-2020 17:56:09




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
Had a guy weld a crack just like that in a Massey Ferguson 750 combine he welded a little bit a time until the crack was fixed it lasted for all the time we had the combine eventually sold the machine and it was still going. Wonít hurt to try



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gregww

01-16-2020 17:47:45




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
There was a time I considered myself a fairly decent welder. But I would not touch that. If you are really serious about fixing that, take it to a pro. You may only get one shot at this. If you give it a shot, and fail, a welding shop will probably refuse to even try.



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Bob

01-16-2020 17:31:44




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to tractorcedric, 01-16-2020 17:18:34  
Unless you intend to completely disassemble it and pre-heat (and aftercool afterward) the casting before attempting to arc weld or braze it properly, your best bet is to clean it up a little more and pucky it up with JB Weld or equivalent.

An amateur attempt at welding it without going through all the steps to produce a correct repair is an exercise in futility, IMHO.

And a HACK!



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db4600

01-16-2020 18:14:43




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 Re: Anybody tried this kind of welding project? in reply to Bob, 01-16-2020 17:31:44  
A bit harsh?



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