coywolves......just learned something

was watching a utube video on game cameras and the guy had a pic of what he called a coywolf, which is a hybrid cross between a coyote and a wolf.
first time i heard the name. did a google and heck, these things are all over. here is a link to an article
poke here

SSS! (Shoot, shovel, shut up)

Not long ago I was watching something on TV where they talked about them but do not remember what program it was

There was/is a documentary on Netflix or Prime if I remember correctly.

Here in the northern Adirondacks/St Lawrence River Valley we have big, rangy coyotes that will weigh upwards of 75-80 pounds and look as much like wolves as coyotes. We always swore that they had to be crossbreeds and were pooh-poohed by the State DEC guys that swore that the Eastern Timber wolf had been extinct for a hundred years. Not too many years ago they finally ran some DNA and low and behold; these "eastern coyotes" have as much wolf blood in them as coyote.....
Neighbor shot an 85 pounder last year, not something you would want to run into a pack of on a dark night......

One thing is for sure, the coyotes around here are so much bigger than the western coyotes that I recall seeing out west, they appear more like fox. Of course their coat adds to it, but the tracks here, and the ones I have seen are certainly big and I'd not want to deal with a pack of them. Neighbor shot one during this hunting season, dominant male too. Deer and other animal population is well balanced, fox and bobcat take care of that, but these things are way too many around here now, they get close to the houses, I have found droppings at my front step. I'll be setting traps soon, seen way to many on the game cameras.

Have seen two around here in the last couple of years that didn?t look like the typical coyote. Bigger, more colorful coat and was not afraid to stand and watch me. It?s normal to see a coyote or two daily around here but these were different. I am about 15 miles North of Nashville TN. So apparently they don?t have a problem being around people.

The coyotes I see around my farm in Wisconsin are about twice the size of the ones I used to give chase to with a helicopter in southwestern Arizona. Coming back from my downrange activities at the end of the day it was always good fun to spot one and give chase. Good low level flight training. Sort of like the WWII (The Big One) USN pilots coming back in at the end of the training day and double loop the Huey P Long bridge before landing. Cross breeding between Canadian wolves and coyotes was detected in Ontario, Canada as early as 1919. So it appears the coyotes migrated "up and over", crossbreeding as they went, as coyotes are not a native species in Wisconsin.

I'm down in the Catskills and know someone that got one here 72 pounds.

no "SSS" here, legal to shoot and trap year round.

Interesting.

I thought that wolves would kill coyotes when they caught them.

Dean

(quoted from post at 08:57:23 01/03/20) Interesting.

I thought that wolves would kill coyotes when they caught them.

Dean

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95% of the time, they do. These are all clickbait stories and people fall for it. Hard to imagine that people these days consider Youtube videos as legitimate sources.

Eastern coyotes have a small amount of wolf DNA in them from a LONG time ago, this has been known for decades. But suddenly the term "coywolf" was created to get people to click on an article, and this is where we end up....

Those are not a problem here in Kentucky but at one time we had a problem with coydogs, wild dogs and coyotes mixing, they were more aggressive than coyotes.

Here in Virginia the Game Commission did DNA tests they said it varied a little but basically the 'coyotes' here were 60% coyotes,30% wolf and 10% dog.The colors can run from a very light tan,to almost black.They'll kill goats,poultry,calves no problem, nasty critters.In Eastern NC there is a colony of Eastern Red Wolf and the state protects them so the gene pool for interbreeding is there.

About 30 years ago, the same "hysteria" was created with the coydog theory. Every time someone saw a coyote, it was a "coydog" because that's what we were lead to believe, and again it mostly came from garbage "news" articles, though they were in the news paper back then. Over time it was shown that coydogs are exceedingly rare. It happens from time to time, but very very seldom.
For some reason, eastern coyotes are always compared to western coyotes, and since they're so much bigger it's used a "proof" of these hybridization theories. Fact is, they're simply different animals. Just like a whitetail deer from Alberta is a different animal from a whitetail from Georgia.

Here's an article that shows more actual scientific info than most of the clickbait articles. The hybridization happened thousands of years ago. They could be called a composite breed, but not a hybrid.
And Virgina coyotes show 2% wolf DNA, not 30%.

https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/yes-eastern-coyotes-are-hybrids-coywolf-not-thing/

Sorry, trying to make this a clickable link....

https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/yes-eastern-coyotes-are-hybrids-coywolf-not-thing/

I think I would take what the VA Game Commission stated in their official magazine VA Wildlife over some PBS animal rights propaganda,but hey believe what you want. I unfortunately have
first hand dealing with these animals and they not what is normally thought of as a Coyote.

Also the state of NC has banned killing coyotes in some Eastern counties because appearance wise there is almost no difference between the wolf and the coyotes in that area.

Don't believe the hype....I'm a trapper

eastern coyotes are heavier than western
I'm in NY and my average coyote weight is around 32 pounds (I weigh every one I catch)
Yes, as with any species, there is the occasional animal that is unusually large but is uncommon
Very few coyotes are over 50 pounds but it can rarely happen
Like deer, most overestimate their size and numbers
Coyotes are territorial and stake "claim" to areas approx. 2 sq miles by a Family group of approx. 6 animals....2 adults and their pups
Generally speaking, wolves kill coyotes on sight....they are enemies similar to dog vs cat

One of the top coyote trappers lives near Syracuse , NY....he averages catching over 100 per year and rarely catches one over 50 pounds
Coyotes come in many "color phases" from blonde to black and every combination in between

(quoted from post at 06:43:36 01/03/20) I think I would take what the VA Game Commission stated in their official magazine VA Wildlife over some PBS animal rights propaganda,but hey believe what you want. I unfortunately have
first hand dealing with these animals and they not what is normally thought of as a Coyote.

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TF I assume that you are doing your duty and reporting the results of your DNA testing to the VA Game Commission.

I's not my testing it is THEIR testing,not my 'duty' to do anything I'm aware of.Think whatever you dream up I deal with these animals on a daily basis have to spend a good deal of $$$$ on buying and
keeping Livestock Guard Dogs to keep them from killing my livestock.

AZglide,

I live a bout 40 miles south of Nashville, TN. We have lots of coyotes around here, but you seldom "see" them. They are nocturnal creatures so I "hear" them all the time, but seldom see one.

Having said that, my wife saw one about a year ago that she is sure was a wolf rather than a coyote. It was much bigger than the few coyotes that we have seen, and its coat was much shaggier than a typical coyote. I don't know for sure what it was, and neither she nor I have seen it since, but I think maybe it was some kind of mixed breed if not a real wolf.

Tom in TN

(quoted from post at 07:07:40 01/03/20) I's not my testing it is THEIR testing,not my 'duty' to do anything I'm aware of.Think whatever you dream up I deal with these animals on a daily basis have to spend a good deal of $$$$ on buying and
keeping Livestock Guard Dogs to keep them from killing my livestock.

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Are you sure that they aren't mountain lions? A friend in Harrisonburg has llamas to keep the coyotes away.

No not Mountains Lions and I've had people buy Great Pyrenees from me to protect their LLamas.Donkeys are pretty good I'm told never tried one but have heard they will sometimes kill what you
don't want killed.I'm pretty close to the Shenandoah National Park so never know what is up there,a lot of bear around here but they rarely bother livestock and they stay away from dogs because people hunt them with dogs. After deer season I have a guy that is supposed to a hot shot coyote hunter coming, has the night vision equipment,infrared scope etc so hope he can get a few.

I'm about 10 miles inland from the St Lawrence River in Northern NY. I lost over 60 sheep and goats in one year to our local coyotes. I've shot and trapped these animals and they will go over 50 lbs on occasion. We ended up having to get guard dogs, Pyrenees/Marema crosses and pure Pyrs. We also have to use electronet fence. They have little fear of anything when they are hungry. Our NYS DEC finally accepted that we do indeed have a resident coyote population about 30 years ago. About 5 years back they finally admitted they have a given amount of wolf DNA which is thought to be responsible for their pack hunting habits. Just a couple years back DEC finally put it in print that it was okay to shoot a coyote out of season if it was harassing livestock/pets. We don't have any wolves in Northern NY, but a pack of coyotes will take out a sick or injured cow/horse sized animal. A lamb/goat kid or young calf is easy pickings. They'll take a healthy adult sheep or goat if there are at least 2 of them. I'm pretty sure one coyote can handle an adult goat or smaller breed sheep, but I've never seen absolute proof of it. We shoot on sight year round up here.

One of the habits of canines is that that will breed out of their specific sub species. Yes, wolves will kill coyotes and coyotes will kill dogs. But a coyote can successfully breed with a dog and wolf with a coyote. I think it requires unusual circumstances for that to happen though.

As far as trusting DEC/DNR/scientists- Our DEC and scientists told us for decades we weren't seeing coyotes. They said the same thing about Moose, turkeys in the Adirondacks, Bald Eagles and Mountain Lions. I had a professor from SUNY with a bunch of his students on the road in front of my home one day. I went over and asked what they were doing and the Prof says they are working on a Ruffed Grouse survey. I mentioned I had heard a Grouse drumming in our woods just that morning. The Prof laughed and said, "Grouse don't drum this time of year!" He left off the "You ignorant, lying, moron!" that I'm sure he was thinking. All his little college student sycophants snickered and giggled at his statement of FACT. Right about then the Grouse started drumming again. The Prof. got red in the face when I told him he should let the Grouse know he shouldn't be drumming this time of the year. He and his band of admires got back in the van and left the area. My point is that "experts" aren't always all that expert and that sometimes they don't know what they don't know. Add to that that if they (NYS DEC) admit a population of an animal exists, then a management plan has to be established, at great cost, for that animal. That's why NYS DEC refuses to acknowledge the possibility of anything but a transient population of Mountain Lion exists in NYS.

Forty years ago I had a pet coyote. Was very protective of me. At my farm store when I was there several older farmers would gather. Coyote was a favorite of those fellows. They would pitch him dog food,[. Never tried or at least just once would they try to touch him. Couple of times a new customer would state that's a real coyote.. All guys replied NO its mixed with dog as coy dogs were legal to own. Wife had a sheltie small dog that got lost around the farm. Coyote left yard , gone several hours came back with lost dog safe and sound.

Wolves were hunted out of existence in our part of the world by about 1940. Had a bounty on them. 11 wolves were re-introduced into
Upper Michigan many years ago. By US Fish & Wildlife. People went right out and shot them. US F&W didn't give up. They held
educational sessions as to why wolves were important. This time it worked. Wolves made it into northern Wis and one day a neighbor
lady saw a wolf in front of her house and called the DNR to report it. They assured her that there were no wolves in our county.
That she'd have to go two counties north to see a wolf. The next day a car hit and killed a wolf in front of her house. "DNR could
not be reached for comment". We laughed about that for a while.

Yep its a lot different story when a person is dealing with things in real life rather than reading what the Pin Heads have posted on the Internet.No season for Coyotes here can kill them
24/7/365 with any method we want like spotlighting.

several states in mid-west where they have legal seasons for hunting or trapping wolves

I know a government trapper in Minnesota who traps them all summer

Many states consider coyotes "vermin" and have open season year
round for hunting and trapping

We have wolves around here but they are Federally Protected in the western great lakes region (Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota), that means no hunting or trapping. Only way to legally kill a wolf is in defense of human life.