Pearl Harbor and the War

wjytexas · Dec 7, 2019

Today there are many apologists who say the U.S. was wrong to use the bomb. Aside from the fact the Japanese committed so many atrocities against both soldiers and civilians, that bloody, brutal war had to be ended and ended quickly. I think many thought it would be a lesson learned, but I'm not so sure.

Russ from MN · Dec 7, 2019

I used to work with a WW 2 Pacific veteran, he said they estimated a million Allies casualties if they would of had to invade the Japanese mainland. The bomb was a better alternative.

jeffcat · Dec 7, 2019

Actually it would have been more than that many dead. The Japanese would have held till the very last man, woman, and child. You think the vietnamese were determined? The Japanese had been preparing since the Doolittle raid for national defense. They held so many planes back from combat to totally embark on true Devine wind that would wipe the navy from the oceans. At the time we only had the two bombs. The third was about a month off with another two or three coming. The more reading you do on how japan was preparing the more your head spins. What really gets you is how they sent the largest battle ship in the world on a no return trip with ZERO chance. Funny thing is the Yamato did a lot of destruction with those 18" inch guns. They used many of the shells as armor piercing bombs retrofitted with tail fins at Pearl Harbor.

aFORDable · Dec 7, 2019

There is no humanity in war. It's kill or be killed. Unfortunately that involves civilians in the wrong place/wrong time. Governments declare war, soldiers/sailors/airmen fight wars. Vietnam 71/72

David G · Dec 7, 2019

I agree with use of the bomb, doubtful that Japan would have ever surrendered without it.

BAnNC · Dec 7, 2019

SWMBO's Dad was on a ship headed for Japan. They were carrying medics, supplies and troops to support a Normandy type invasion with 70% casualties. The bomb probably saved his life. AND many more.

wjytexas · Dec 7, 2019

My Dad was on the upper end of the age for draftees/enlistees and was married and he worked in a "critical" job but he got drafted in late July '45 in anticipation of an invasion. But before he was scheduled to report the was ended. The bomb may well have saved his life ..... and mine.

rlp in Co. · Dec 7, 2019

Towards the end of the war, Japan started using Kamakasi pilots that were causing tremendous damage to our ships and men. It would have been a tough fight without the bomb.

Ultradog MN · Dec 7, 2019

Thanks for the reminder.
I just finished reading At Dawn We Slept by Gordon Prang. It's probably still THE definitive account of the attack at PH.
If you are a reader and like history it is worth you while. It was at my local library.

dcarp · Dec 7, 2019

There are no rules in war, only a winner and a loser.

55 50 Ron · Dec 7, 2019

"Retrofitted with tail fins at Pearl Harbor" How did they do that? Did they have machine shops on repair ships close by to retrofit these shells into bombs?

Naaguy · Dec 7, 2019

I was stationed in Japan for 4 years. I worked with several Japanese mechanics that told me they were thankful we used ?the bomb? They thought our fire bombing was much worse.

jeffcat · Dec 7, 2019

Do some research here. All over the net.

wjytexas · Dec 7, 2019

I'll look for it

BarnyardEngineering · Dec 7, 2019

I have to ask: Who are these "apologists" and where are they saying this? I have NEVER heard ANYONE, NOT ONCE, ever "apologize" for the bombing of Japan in WWII. Not in personal interactions. Not in anything I've read in print or online.

Probably from the same place as the nonexistent "War on Christmas" people.

wjytexas · Dec 7, 2019

I have seen questions raised in documentaries describing the burns and after effects. Mostly commentaries on civilians paying the
price for their governments action but their soldiers (who were civilians once) that brutalized Chinese, Korean, Filipino and other
civilians doesn't come up. As I said, it had to be done.

ss55 · Dec 7, 2019

The Omaha World Herald has a respectful photo rememberence of the Pearl Harbor attack.

www.omaha.com/news/trending/photos-th-anniversary-of-pearl-harbor-a-date-which-will/collection_7ca40376-901d-5e53-b9ef-5ebff00099fe.html?utm_source=NEWS - Afternoon Update&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=OmahaWorldHerald&utm_content=_Afternoon Update

fixerupper · Dec 7, 2019

(quoted from post at 15:12:57 12/07/19) I have seen questions raised in documentaries describing the burns and after effects. Mostly commentaries on civilians paying the
price for their governments action but their soldiers (who were civilians once) that brutalized Chinese, Korean, Filipino and other
civilians doesn't come up. As I said, it had to be done.

WJY when I was in high school In the 60 s I read a book about the savage atrocities of the Japanese during the war. They used captured US soldiers for medical experiments. I just deleted an explanation I had typed up of one of the experiments I read about because it might have caused a poof. After reading that book I have agreed that while the bombs caused untold suffering to civilians, going that route was necessary to alleviate even more suffering if the bombs were not used.

Kansas4010 · Dec 7, 2019

I had an uncle who was in the Pacific. He was wounded and recovering when the bombs were dropped. He was stationed there afterwards for a while to make sure Japan didn't start anything. He was one of the last to come home and couldn't have any children after that. He was stationed close to where one of them dropped. I didn't know anything about it until after he passed away a few years ago.

Billy Shafer · Dec 7, 2019

How many of them. Would not be here if we had not used the bomp.My dad was on a sea going tug. They were told to fill out their wills. Send everything they had home. Because they said there was a slim chance. Of them making it.

fuzz48 · Dec 7, 2019

MY DAD age 35 was drafted in 1943 after three of his brothers had died in WW II Thanks to all that served. My brother was Air Force 67-71 Myself Army 67-69

37chief · Dec 7, 2019

If your uncle was stationed near where the bomb was dropped he was fairly close, he was probably stationed at Iwakuni Japan. I was stationed there in 65, and it was a hour or so train ride to Hiroshima where the first bomb was dropped. It was a marine air base, and they didn't let the sailors forget it. Stan

jeffcat · Dec 7, 2019

Absolutely...carpet bombing was just not cutting it and the B-29s were just fling way too high. They were up in the high level very fast moving jet stream winds. Blew anything they were dropping all over the place. So they changed over to lower level with incendiary type. You can't put incendiary bombs out. Water just makes white phosphorus worse. So many citys that were bombed were giant piles of firewood. If you would like to watch an animated movie about WWII Japan and how it was and then how bad it got. Watch "Grave of the fireflies " Very eye opening.
Firefly

fixerupper · Dec 7, 2019

Kansas4010 a good friend of my Dad told me he was stationed in Japan after the war on cleanup duty. He said he carried dynamite in his pocket. He would toss the dynamite into caves in case someone was hiding in there. He said he has been jumpy ever since then. He also witnessed the papers being signed to end the war. He was stationed on a ship anchored beside the Missouri so he was not real close be he could see it from a distance. He was like thousands of other vets, a Nebraska farm boy who went to war and then came home to blend in with the rest of society, only they carried invisible scars. When he was in his late 80s he went to the VA for psychological help when memories of his war experiences came back to him.

derwen1959 · Dec 7, 2019

Earlier I watched documentary about. Pearl harbour and there is evidence that Roosevelt knew it was going to happen but for some reason did nothing

Traditional Farmer · Dec 7, 2019

If they didn't want the crap beat out of them they shouldn't have started the war.If anyone is to 'blame' its the Japanese military for failing to surrender when it was obvious they were headed for certain defeat.

MarkB_MI · Dec 8, 2019

I don't know what your question has to do with Pearl Harbor. After all, the attack on Pearl was an attack, albeit unprovoked, on a military installation. The bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as well as the fire-bombing of Tokyo, were deliberate attacks on largely civilian populations.

The main thing is that once we had a nuclear weapon, there was really no question that we would use it. The idea of continuing to fight the Japanese without using the nukes is largely an academic discussion that post-dates the war.

It's often overlooked that the firebombing of Tokyo killed more people than either of the A-bombs. Had the Japanese not surrendered after Nagasaki, we probably would have fire-bombed all the remaining cities into oblivion, because we had used up our entire stock of nuclear weapons. It's hard to say whether or not an invasion would have been required; if it had my father would have been part of it and might not have survived. He ended up being part of the occupation force in Japan and ended up as member of McArthur's "Honor Guard".

muleboss · Dec 8, 2019

(quoted from post at 16:28:02 12/07/19) There are no rules in war, only a winner and a loser.

There is no winner in war. All are loser in one way or another.

Bill(Wis) · Dec 8, 2019

We had used up our entire stock of nuclear weapons, BUT, a third bomb was being assembled at Tinian in the Marianas. The plutonium core was about to be shipped from the US and would have been ready to drop in a matter of days. Additional plans for up to 12 more bombs had already been made.

4wdtom · Dec 8, 2019

The bombs saved lives by ending the war. If we had had to invade there was a projected loss of life of millions on both sides.

doublebass73 · Dec 8, 2019

(quoted from post at 14:36:31 12/07/19) I have to ask: Who are these "apologists" and where are they saying this? I have NEVER heard ANYONE, NOT ONCE, ever "apologize" for the bombing of Japan in WWII. Not in personal interactions. Not in anything I've read in print or online.

Probably from the same place as the nonexistent "War on Christmas" people.

Just because YOU have NEVER heard ANYONE doesn't mean it didn't happen.
[b:df6fa3df81]
Here's a couple apologies for Hiroshima and Nagasaki:[/b:df6fa3df81]

https://www.ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/hiroshima-and-nagasaki-apology

https://dissidentvoice.org/2018/08/sharat-g-lin-offers-u-s-apology-for-hiroshima-atomic-bomb/

[b:df6fa3df81]Here's a couple people saying that we should apologize for Hiroshima and Nagasaki:[/b:df6fa3df81]

https://sojo.net/articles/why-we-must-apologize-hiroshima

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/11/opinion/11iht-edlet.html

[b:df6fa3df81]Oh and here's your "non existent War on Christmas":[/b:df6fa3df81]

"Boston parks commissioner said that the term "holiday" was being used because instead of Christmas it was more inclusive"

https://www.christianpost.com/news/boston-confirms-christmas-tree-not-holiday-tree.html

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/t...op-up-to-challenge-freedom-from-religion-grou

https://www.wnd.com/2018/12/delaware-town-boots-churchs-nativity-scene/

https://www.opposingviews.com/relig...forced-remove-nativity-scene-consider-options

https://ffrf.org/news/news-releases...-michigan-town-to-remove-bible-nativity-scene

http://www.northescambia.com/2014/1...jay-town-hall-after-lawyer-claims-its-illegal

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/11/13/durham-nh-tree-lighting-removed-frost-fest-celebration/

oldtanker · Dec 8, 2019

WOW, where to start.

OK at the beginning. Did Roosevelt know? Sure. He knew something was going to happen but he was being advised by the Navy. The problem with that is the top people in the Navy were "battleship" admirals. They honestly looked at the aircraft carrier and naval aviation as support for the fleet. Many refused to be believe that aircraft could hit ship underway and maneuvering and there was no way they could sink a battleship. They had picket ships out from Pearl Harbor and thought that if the Japanese would be so foolish as to attack Pearl Harbor that the ships at Pearl would have plenty of time to build steam and sally forth to meet the Japanese fleet. What they expected was an attack someplace but they envisioned ships standing off shore and lobbing shells. And that's what they advised the president. So while Roosevelt knew something was going to happen he had been advised that at sea, battleship against battleship the US Navy could fight and win. IT was not a sneak attack. That much we know. But it was a surprise in that the Navy brass were shocked and surprised at 1: the method of attack 2: the damage inflicted 3: the Japanese failure to actually invade and occupy Hawaii after such a successful attack.

Now as for the bombs. Certain people at high enough levels in Japan had tried to get the Russians to intercede and get us to settle for terms. The problem was that they didn't have the power or authority to actually negotiate a surrender. All they could have done was tell the prime minster and emperor that the US was willing to discuss terms. That could have gone either way. That could have seen them as heroes having ended the war or villains executed for displaying a defeatist attitude. Today some revisionists are trying to claim it would have worked and had the US been willing to talk the bombs would have been needed. Tojo was still in power through the middle of July 45. No way he would have backed down. He stepped down a mere 3 weeks before the first bomb was dropped.

Rick

dr sportster · Dec 8, 2019

Once the attack on Pearl Harbor happened all bets were off. The Japanese opened up a whole can of whoopass which they could not comprehend . What do you think will happen if you bomb the United States of America?

Ozlander · Dec 8, 2019

Oldtanker,
I agree with what you said. The code breakers in Hawaii knew Hawaii would be attacked. But, they had to go thru the Washington code breakers, who didn't believe it would happen because they had not themselves broke it. The Hawaii guys sent a message direct the Secretary of War Simpson, who showed it to Roosevelt.
Roosevelt wanted the war because his buddy Churchill needed help with his war.

Pearl Harbor and the War

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