Wiring in a generator? Long

tractorsam · Nov 29, 2019

I know this is a frequent topic with many opinions but I am now looking to wire in a generator to my house and have run across an option I haven't seen mentioned here before (link below). Firstly, I'm in Canada and while handy I do not know the electrical code. So I have a 7kw generator (8250 starting) and would like to be able to power my entire panel as I have freezers and other things scattered all over the place (there are four sub panels fed from the main panel). I know I cannot run everything without overloading the generator and would turn things on and off depending on what I need to run.

The main panel is in the dining room of my house so it's not going to be easy to install a transfer switch. I recently ran across an interlock kit that would work on my breaker panel (I am attaching a link below). Is there any way I can find out for sure if this meets code or not (besides the obvious hiring an electrician)? Also this would appear to leave the neutrals connected which I think has been suggested here as a potential hazard for workers on the line. Any thoughts on this interlock kit are much appreciated. Many thanks, Sam
Interlock kit

Shortrun · Nov 29, 2019

(quoted from post at 17:46:14 11/29/19) I know this is a frequent topic with many opinions but I am now looking to wire in a generator to my house and have run across an option I haven't seen mentioned here before (link below). Firstly, I'm in Canada and while handy I do not know the electrical code. So I have a 7kw generator (8250 starting) and would like to be able to power my entire panel as I have freezers and other things scattered all over the place (there are four sub panels fed from the main panel). I know I cannot run everything without overloading the generator and would turn things on and off depending on what I need to run.

The main panel is in the dining room of my house so it's not going to be easy to install a transfer switch. I recently ran across an interlock kit that would work on my breaker panel (I am attaching a link below). Is there any way I can find out for sure if this meets code or not (besides the obvious hiring an electrician)? Also this would appear to leave the neutrals connected which I think has been suggested here as a potential hazard for workers on the line. Any thoughts on this interlock kit are much appreciated. Many thanks, Sam
Interlock kit

I had heard some utilities have a unit that plugs into the meter base. Meant to allow homeowners to connect a generator, and switch between the 2 sources of power. Call them. Not sure if it is offered in NS, or really anywhere. I am in Ontario.

Janicholson · Nov 29, 2019

I do not know what the Canadian code has in it at all. So take this with safety as a primary foundation. Any kit that covers things, or holds them in position is not good enough. The device must actually disconnect the incoming wires, and through actual switches, disconnects both of the 220 incoming and the neutral conductors. On line they cost around 200 bucks. Some are based in the meter socket, some next to the distribution panel. For less than 100, you are not getting mechanical disconnect. The term to look for is transfer switch. Jim

Billy Shafer · Nov 29, 2019

The first thing you need to do.Is check with the local code office. They may or may not require a qualified electric company. To install it.They are not that hard but you need to know what you are doing.Also I would contact your insurance company.If you do install one. I would get all forms and permits. Put them in a safe place. To show that this was a approved system. In case something happens in the future.

Billy Shafer · Nov 29, 2019

Shortrun. Yes they do or did make a kit like that. You unplug your meter. Install the kit and reinstall the
meter.Really is a good system.The utilie company should be able to help with that.

What ever you do DO NOT BACK FEED the system.You will hear people tell you to back feed through dryer plug.That way
has alot of danger in it. If the power company finds it. They will pull your meter put a tag on your house. You
will not get power back until they do an inspection and clear you'r house. And you could be fined.

I have been to more than one house that had a fire. Because of a back feed and always heard. I know what I am
doing.

4wdtom · Nov 29, 2019

OK I know not to backfeed but how does it cause a fire? If you backfeed through a breaker of an amperage rated to the generator wouldn't the breaker protect you? Sure if you go through a breaker rated higher than the generator amps it could.

Philip d · Nov 29, 2019

I?m currently studying to be an electrical apprentice at trade school in PEI. I don?t see what that cover does to make the panel safe? I?m not saying it won?t but I need more info. I?ve helped my electrician mentor hook a few of these up. There?s a mechanical bridge preventing the home owner from back feeding the panel unsafely and also from sending power out to the generator. It might cost close to $1000 to have it installed including purchase price but it?s safe and you?ll never have to worry about it. The loads you want to supply during a power outages are moved over to this panel and the ones you can?t are left on the main panel. The generator panel is fed from the main panel and during a power outage it?s fed from the generator and the breaker normally bringing power from the main panel is switched off. Good work ain?t cheap and cheap work ain?t good.
Generator panel

Billy Shafer · Nov 29, 2019

A back feed is when you feed power in through a power cord into your dryer plug.Which can feed power back into the house. It will work as long as you keep the main breaker in you house off.That is kind of ok.Say your wife or kid comes home. Sees the main breaker off. Turns it back on. Now you are feeding power back into the system. The man from the power company has teasted the line and knows it is clear to work on.So he thinks the power is off but it is not.

So he grabs the line and gets killed or injured. And you are feeding power into the system when the normal power comes back. Guess which system is going to win the fight.So you end up with a destroyed generator and a good chance of a fire.

A good inter lock system will prevent that.

47fivewindow · Nov 29, 2019

when you try to backfeed a whole house you are using the wiring and breaker of the appliance you chose. If the wiring is not able to handle the amps for the whole house, say 40 amps, and the 20 amp breaker doesn't open. whoops-fire.

buickanddeere · Nov 29, 2019

First of all ThankYou for for doing the right thing and using a transfer switch .
The shock hazard from the neutral to utility workers is much over rated and is not possible unless there are multiple failures.
Here it is again according to code and not an opinion. If the generator has a bonded neutral than the transfer switch is to switch the neutral as well as the two live lines .
If the generator has an open neutral, the transfer switch only needs to switch the two live lines .
That said most utilities overlook the use of a bonded neutral generator with a two pole transfer switch . Having the ground and neutral temporary in parallel with a small capacity generator . Is a very minor concern vs the a s s h o l e s that back feed a welder, clothes dryer or stove receptacle without a fail safe interlock .
So connect the generator to your transfer switch breaker panel AFTER you have a real genuine qualified contractor look at the installation .
I know the temptation is there to try and save a buck. However amateurs do make errors . Electricity, your property and your family are not worth being cheap.

tractorsam · Nov 29, 2019

I was hoping you might chime in. From what I can tell the piece in the link I attached only prevents you from turning the generator breaker on at the same time as the main breaker, provided the panel is fully assembled. I figured there was no way it would be legal and that easy.

I have been looking at panels like the one in your link but they won't really do what I need. I would like to be able to run the basics in the house (furnace, wood stove blower, fridge, water pump, etc) but I also have freezers out in an outbuilding (run off a pony panel) and then there is the barn water (run off another pony panel).

What I'd really like to do is have the generator in one of the outbuildings (exhaust plumbed outside of course) and have the power run back to the house and then have a transfer switch so I can fully disconnect from the utility feed and run off the generator (only turning on the necessary breakers). Thanks, Sam

tractorsam · Nov 29, 2019

I'm not an electrician, I can and have done some electrical work but I know this is beyond my skill level (certainly to do it correctly and
legally). It looks like there is only really one way to do this and it's going to cost some coin.

Philip d · Nov 29, 2019

You could ask an electrician to install a manual double throw switch. It looks like a slot machine handle on the side of a box. Power is fed to one set of terminals from the utility and power is fed from another set from the generator. You wouldn?t have to rewrire your panel and it would safely allow you to feed your panel from the generator.
Transfer switch

Billy Shafer · Nov 29, 2019

What that panel does. Is lock out the main breaker before you can turn on the generator breaker.
Since you are new to electrical system. A few tips.
Go to work with a clear head.
Don't be afraid to get shocked. It will happen.
Don't get in a hurry. Nothing is worth getting killed over.
If you don't know ask.
Don't work with anyone on drugs or booze.
If you think a job is not safe. Let someone know.
Remember electricity. Doesn't care who you are. If it gets a chance it will kill you.
Once you have helped clean bodt parts out of a panel. I think you will understand

Philip d · Nov 29, 2019

Very good advice! Oh I?ve been shocked quite a few times over the years on our farm lol, they stress lock out tag out before working on any circuits at school. They tell us that most companies will terminate employees who don?t follow loto procedures before doing any electrical work.

Billy Shafer · Nov 29, 2019

Along with the lock out tag. I also put a lock on the handle. If it had a spot for one and only I had the code or key for the lock Or I would wire the handle open.

TGP · Nov 29, 2019

This one does a good job of insolating the power grid.
It's simple, reliable and automatic.

Considering the work(wiring) it saves it's reasonable.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/GenerLi...?bvrrp=1999/questions/product/2/301962163.htm

Just my opinion.

Tom

Philip d · Nov 30, 2019

That one looks pretty simple to use

phil25 · Nov 30, 2019

The meter conversion units are popular around here, as the houses are generally older and panels were installed in the
spare corner of the back room...or on the kitchen wall.
BUT: they got a bad name for a while because the unit when installed, put the unit/meter joint out into the drip
line of the roof edge.
Just something to be aware of that a little roof device may be needed sometimes, otherwise they are a lot less work
and mess to install, you need a electrician, permit, power company disconnect, install, inspection/permit approval,
power company re-connects, and you control your load with the main panel breakers.
hope it helps.

Billy Shafer · Nov 30, 2019

That is the one I would use. I know it cost money. But when you add up all the time and cost of other units. It is
about the same. And it is approved by just about everyone.

Determined · Nov 30, 2019

You said your main panel was in the dining room and you had several outbuildings with sub panels that you will need power at.

Unless they are very small I would doubt that all those other panels in your outbuildings are switched through the panel in your dining room.

What you need is a disconnect that separates your system completely from the grid power and that would have to be done at the box or pole where the service enters your property on your side of the meter.

Billy Shafer · Nov 30, 2019

As I said before. Before you do anything. Check with the local code office.Does not really matter what we all think. Local codes will tell you what you can do.

tractorsam · Nov 30, 2019

I?ve been looking these up and they look like a great option. Easy install and the most flexibility. I?m going to give the power company a call as soon as I get back home and see what I have to do to get it in. Down the road I will have to re-engineer the whole system when I go to a bigger generator but that will be years from now when I have fixed some other issues with the house. Thanks, Sam

tractorsam · Nov 30, 2019

Planning to contact the utility on Monday.

tractorsam · Nov 30, 2019

The main panel is 200A in the dining room. Via a
100A breaker it feeds another panel in the attached
apartment. That panel feeds the greenhouse (which
has a panel) via a 30A breaker. It also feeds the
workshop via a 60A breaker. The workshop (which
has a panel) feeds the barn which has its own panel
(not sure what size breaker). It?s a bit convoluted
but it?s worked so far.

buickanddeere · Nov 30, 2019

Assuming the 200 amp main panel is on an outside wall ? Triplex from above or hurried cable from underneath?
Something that should be checked is where the neutral is bonded to earth and where the neutral floats.

Wiring in a generator? Long

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