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Fence lines

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farmallboy15

Member
So in the next year I am wanting to get some livestock. The property lines of my farm are overgrown fence rows. Some trees are up to ~30? in diameter, grown around old woven wire.

In my case, I would like to keep the trees so I don?t have to see neighbors and the wife likes trees...

Where would you build your perimeter fence?
1. Clear the trees and build the fence. Plant new trees on my side.
2. Build as close to the trees /property line as possible.
3. Come in ~30-50?, enough to bushhog around the perimeter
4. Something I haven?t thought of yet...

Any ideas are welcomed!
 

Build the new fence ON the property line to avoid future issues with neighboring land owners. A temporary, electric fence could be built to keep the livestock contained.
 
Not the best solution but I have strung new wire almost on the property line. Putting the new fence against the trees. Now 40 yrs later its grown into the trees. And every storm limbs or a tree falls on the fence crushing it to the ground. Trees should be a 100 ft. From your fence. But in the real world! A happy wife is a happy life. LOL.
 
Any where but the property line would probably lead to mass confusion in years to come, string a temporary electric fence and work on clearing the fence line in your spare time.
 
Be careful about cutting trees in a fence row. Part of that is owned by the adjacent land owner. Make sure that there are very visible survey monuments for property lines. I even put a fence t-post next to the monuments (on my side). I have also driven t-posts in the old fence row and painted them orange or yellow.
Set your fence inside your property line with enough space to easily keep it mowed.
I have a former sand pit next to my property. It was sold to the County Parks. Park Commission saw my mowed yard and approached me one day about installing a new fence...on my property. NO! Put it on your property. They cleaned out brush 3 feet onto their property 5 feet wide for a quarter mile and then built a new fence. I love it. I let the fence row grow for the rabbits and hopefully some returning pheasants. There are deer in the area that regularly jump the fence to graze on acorns in my yard.
Do not let anyone attach their fence to your fence that is on your property. In two open fields that I fenced I used my survey transit to set the fence 2" on my property. KEEP OFF. Adjacent property owner was not willing to share fence cost and maintenance.
Lastly remember, "good fences make food neighbors" (hopefully now days)
 
Fyi...if a neighbors tree falls on your fence and your livestock get out it's still your responsibility. I have had to have my high tinsel woven wire patched several times and it's only been up 2 years and insurance will not pay.
 
You are going to need a trip the the Courthouse to see what the rules are in your state and county. The laws in Mo will be a lot different than yours are.
 
I guess things are just different in Michigan. Just about ever thing you say is backwards to Tennessee fences. I am 76 years old and have always tried place fences on the line. That is just the way it is done in this part of the country. If I am following your advise , I would fence my pasture and give up a strip of pasture and then my adjoining neighbor would fence his. then we would have a strip of nothing in between. Sure a waste of land and fencing. I on the other hand have seen all kind of disputes come up years latter where the fence was no on the line.
 
Put it ON the line or you re just giving your land away while still paying the taxes.
 
Trees in fence lines, are like weeds in a corn field, cut them down. Now if your wife isn?t on side with that, here is a question. Is this fence between you and a neighbor. Or is it between you and the road allowance? If it is between you and the road, I would make a grand gesture , and let the wife keep the trees, and trim them back some, and build the new fence on your own property. The county or township isn?t going to claim the land.
 
So it sounds like most suggestions would to be to do something like this:

cvphoto42350.png
 

Farmallboy, that is essentially how I did mine. We used five strands of high tensile. When we moved to this property in 1989 my daughter had a boyfriend who would do anything in order to be around her, and we needed the fence for HER sheep. I had him pull the wire down the property line right through underbrush and limbs and downed branches right next to the original big "line" trees, while I followed along and fastened to the trees with insulators. Then we went back and pulled four more. It worked well for us around ten years. The sheep cleared the ground right back to the fence.
 
I hate to say it but "good fences make good neighbors". I never thought I would say that, but I have learned the hard way. Build a legal fence, exactly on the legal line. check your state laws. If you don't, eventually you will be sorry.
 
First thing I?d do is get the property surveyed. That is if the property hasn?t had a resell survey. Cheaper to survey than getting into a dispute with the neighbor over a fence on his property.
 
In some states (maybe Iowa?) each land owner is responsible for half of the line fence, the half to your right as you face the line fence.
 
Were it me, I'd clear my side up as high as I could reach, nail some 2x4 oak to the big trees, and start stretching wire. Fence is on the line, your wife keeps her trees and everybody's happy. Seems pretty simple to me. So what if you're 1.5 inches to your side of the survey line? You've not lost anything. Heck, you've gained ground by clearing to the treeline!

Mac
 
(quoted from post at 23:41:25 11/18/19) Were it me, I'd clear my side up as high as I could reach, nail some 2x4 oak to the big trees, and start stretching wire. Fence is on the line, your wife keeps her trees and everybody's happy. Seems pretty simple to me. So what if you're 1.5 inches to your side of the survey line? You've not lost anything. Heck, you've gained ground by clearing to the treeline!

Mac
Click to expand...
0 years ago, I hated to cut a tree....but, after 50 years of rebuilding 5 miles of fences over & over, I'm with the guy that said, "cut every tree within 100 feet of a fence".
 
I cleared the fence row to my north- the west neighbor was okay with it, at first. After about 500 feet, completely clear, she decided she wanted to keep five large, cottonwood trees. They drop limbs and junk all year long, thanks. Right on the line, I can't run a decent little ditch through the root masses.

The other neighbor farther east, was not interested in me "cutting down all his valuable trees", so the cottonwoods and ash stood until the borer killed most of them. I cleared the scrub, brush and trash, but left most of the rocks.

I put my five wire tensile fence 20 feet from the line, enough for four passes with a 72inch mower. The dead, falling ash trees still hit the fence on occasion, so I monitor the cattle more often when they are out there.

My original east fence was about three feet on my side of the line, Grandpa replaced it there in the 50's to replace one built when two relatives owned adjacent fields and could not agree on fence installation.

Be careful about relying only on a survey- I've been told they only count if both parties agree they are correct- one side can always contest the location.
 
Just FYI a surveyors report in some states is typically only legally considered as an EXPERT OPINION. Subject to certain "Legal Survey" statutes in some states, it can take a Court of law to set the boundary given a dispute. That being said, at common law in many states where old "fence lines" were treated as and considered the boundary between adjoining landowners for several years (similar to Adverse Possession) THAT AND NOT a survey can over time (given certain conditions) ripen into the boundary. I bought and sold several farms and each time I had them surveyed to existing for years maintained treated as boundary fence lines I may have lost acreage or gained acreage, it was NEVER the same acres as the Deed stated.

NOTE there can be risk to a landowner who voluntarily moves a fence and years go by and that new fence is treated as and considered the "boundary".

SO to answer part of your question, BEFORE you cut trees or move the fence you may want to consider that below:

DISCLAIMER different states have different laws so CONSULT A LOCAL REAL ESTATE ATTORNEY and DO NOT bet the farm on lay opinions or even professional until all the facts and the States laws have been thoroughly researched. What may have worked for Billy Bob in State A may be the opposite for Bubba in State B.

Best wishes yall

John T Live from the RV in Livingston Texas
 
last time I got caught in fence troubles found out in todays world single electric wire is a LEGAL fence, right hand rule applies sometimes ,sometimes not. good luck
 
(quoted from post at 04:47:41 11/19/19)
(quoted from post at 23:41:25 11/18/19) Were it me, I'd clear my side up as high as I could reach, nail some 2x4 oak to the big trees, and start stretching wire. Fence is on the line, your wife keeps her trees and everybody's happy. Seems pretty simple to me. So what if you're 1.5 inches to your side of the survey line? You've not lost anything. Heck, you've gained ground by clearing to the treeline!

Mac
Click to expand...
0 years ago, I hated to cut a tree....but, after 50 years of rebuilding 5 miles of fences over & over, I'm with the guy that said, "cut every tree within 100 feet of a fence".
Click to expand...

Point taken. Unfortunately, you can't really do that around here. It's mostly woods! Then again, we don't have that much trouble with limbs/trees on the fences. I guess when you go tree to tree like we do there is a lesser chance of a limb hitting the wire. Our worst enemy for fences locally is deer and people. Since I sold my cattle, I really don't keep the fences up like I used to. But, I've noticed that where the deer cross them, they'll be 2 or 3 times as loose as in other spots. Also seems like people don't watch what they're doing and drive their cars through fences all too often. Oh well, what can you do? I'm just thankful that rowcrops don't need fences to stay in!

Mac
 

As mentioned, survey first unless you can find the original survey monuments (likely iron and likely buried). Plainly stake and flag the corners during the planning and construction time. Discuss with your neighbor! Keep it on the line.
 
How much line are we talking here? 300' or 3 miles?

Cutting down 3 miles of 30" trees is going to take DECADES to do yourself or cost a FORTUNE to have it hired out, even if that's just a bulldozer. You need a bulldozer or a big excavator regardless to get the stumps out.

Nobody's going to want the wood because it's full of metal.

If the trees are not an eyesore and they perform a function, either build the fence as close as you can or leave a buffer zone so you can maintain up to the property line with machinery if you so choose. Either or. Whichever works best for your needs.

Either way, what is the neighbor going to do? The line is the line whether you have a fence on it or not. If you fear a claim of "adverse possession" by the neighbor, then make sure you maintain it yourself. Here in NY there is no adverse possession law anymore.
 

Agree with John.. adverse possession or prescriptive easement.

If you give up land by moving the fence over, after so many years, you have lost that land.
If you agree to the new water way preservation program here, after 5 years, the land is permanently in the water shed and you've lost control. If you let a neighbor cross your land, after a period of time, you have granted a defacto permanent easement. Dont be foolish, check out the laws of your state. If your going to let someone cross your land,, get a legal lease so it can be terminated at your calling. When in doubt, put the fence back where it was, trees be danged!!!
 
Another thing to think about. They changed our fence laws in MO 10 years or so ago. So If you have zero livestock, you are not responsible to build any fence to help the neighbors keep theirs in.

But, If you get livestock, then you are suddenly responsible for your half of the fence all the way around your property. So if you have 160 acres, and say 6 neighbors that border you. You could be building lots of fence.

Might be something to think about. That is why I have resisted the urge to even get my wife that one damned miniature donkey that she thinks she wants for a pet.

Gene
 
(quoted from post at 15:11:12 11/18/19) So in the next year I am wanting to get some livestock. The property lines of my farm are overgrown fence rows. Some trees are up to ~30? in diameter, grown around old woven wire.

In my case, I would like to keep the trees so I don?t have to see neighbors and the wife likes trees...

Where would you build your perimeter fence?
1. Clear the trees and build the fence. Plant new trees on my side.
2. Build as close to the trees /property line as possible.
3. Come in ~30-50?, enough to bushhog around the perimeter
4. Something I haven?t thought of yet...

Any ideas are welcomed!
Click to expand...

#3 is your best bet. Lowest cost, least labor, the old fence preserves the property line. You might want an 8 gap between fences, so you have plenty of room and make a double pass with the bush hog.
 
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