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Buying non ethanol gas for small engines

R

Rkh

Member
Having trouble with 2 cycle Stihl leaf blower, put sea foam in and seemed to run better. Found out thru this website they sell non ethanol gas in my area. Been using high test for my 2 10hp garden tractors, mf65 tractor, Stihl chain saw, leaf blower, and Stihl weed wacker. For the price of high test, I wonder if using non ethanol wouldnt be better off?

https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=NY
 
If you only use a 2 cycle piece of equipment on a seasonal basis, like a leaf blower, then buying the ready mix might be your best option your best option. I can get about a year out of two cycle oil/gas mix if I use non-ethanol gas. It's pain full to have to dump it in the lawn mower when it gets old, but its better to have fresh in your 2 cycle equipment.

OTJ
 
The advantages of the non ethanol are it stores better, leaves less residue when it evaporates in a carburetor during storage, and is not as degrading to fuel lines, diaphragms, and internal carb parts.

The disadvantage, the ethanol has the same effect as raising the octane of the fuel.

As for needing high octane non ethanol, the tractor and garden tractors are low compression and will run just as well on low octane gas. Running high octane when not needed will increase carbon deposits, and increase operating cost due to higher prices.

The 2 cycle will like the high octane. But weed wackers and leaf blowers are rarely operated at full power (the blower is governed by exhaust restriction, so never actually reached full potential). Chain saws, other 2 cycle applications that see extended full power, lugging, hard use, do need higher octane fuel. Following the oil ratio exactly, and using factory or high quality oil is also critical.
 
Steve@advance put it as well as I've seen and aligns with my experiences. I have been using non ethanol fuel for about 4 years now, and I have had no problems. I do repair small engines on the side and the biggest problem people have with their small engines is a clogged main jet in the carb. If the unit will run, but poorly the by far best magic potion I have found is Mechanic-In-A-Bottle that cleans carbs great. Available at Menards, Tractor Supply, Wally world, Family Farm and Home and others. After telling friends about it, they have thanked me later. The stuff WORKS!!!
 
If you can get non..use it! You can remove the ethanol. Buy hi- test and then remove the crap. Look on Utube and there are boat loads of how to do it videos. Very simple. I like blue dye cause it is easy to see. Really works! Also run your equipment dry so no gas is left in the system's Posted this picture a few days ago and just got done rebuilding this carb. What a mess . It must depend on the metallurgy blend from when the carb is being cast. I keep all of my gas in Eagle safety cans but somehow enough moisture was in some of the gas. Nice carb right???? Plugged half of the gallerys and the main jet. They caught a gas station adding water to the underground tanks. Maybe that is what.caused my carb to get ripped up. First picture is Barkeepers friend. Cleans a lot of the crud off. Went on Ebay and ordered a new carb for around 12 bucks. Just need to swap the choke leaver. Now the next time I will just screw on a new one. These knock off carbs are cheep as can be and they work great. Most likely made in the back of 5he real factory, just with no name on them.
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(quoted from post at 09:09:50 11/15/19) Steve@advance put it as well as I've seen and aligns with my experiences. I have been using non ethanol fuel for about 4 years now, and I have had no problems. I do repair small engines on the side and the biggest problem people have with their small engines is a clogged main jet in the carb. If the unit will run, but poorly the by far best magic potion I have found is Mechanic-In-A-Bottle that cleans carbs great. Available at Menards, Tractor Supply, Wally world, Family Farm and Home and others. After telling friends about it, they have thanked me later. The stuff WORKS!!!
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My small engine mechanic recommends engineered gas....about $8 for a half gallon. He says I can leave it in the tank all year. He says I can blend it with ethanol gas when using the blower, but for storage, drain the ethanol and fill with engineered gas.

My old Ariens walk behind manual says to not use ethanol, and there is not any non ethanol available locally.
 
I have had good results running 10% ethanol in mowers and tractors that I use all of the time. Weed eater,chain saws all get straight gas,they may sit for weeks at a time and not be used. Two gal of 2 cycle gas will last me most of the summer.
 
locally around Madison, Wisconsin the premium non ethanol is recommended because it is only non ethanol available at Kwik Trip, Citgo stations. A couple stations have non ethanol regular, independants that get the niche market. BP stations have their own brand of additive-Invigereen(?) - but most have the ethanol warning on pumps. Auto parts and farm stores have cans of 50:1,40:1, 32:1, 25:1 2 stroke mixes for about $6.00 to $8.00/gallon that has good storage life, lot used for chainsaws that get seasonal use. Brigges dealers have a Stabil formula for the ethanol mixes, also some good oil with extra zinc for the splash lube engines. Couple small engine shops I know have about 1/2 their 'It don't run this season' with old ethanol fuel leftovers, fouled carbs because customer bought the $2.49 ethanol regular mix instead of $3.29 Premium non ethanol fuel. Chainsaws 2, 3 years old setting over summer poor start, no power, etc- customer thought if 50:1 oil mix was good, then 25 to 1 would be better with cheapest gas and the fouled spark arrestors on exhaust are another didn't maintain item. throwaway chainsaw or trade for $1.00 value on new one, non runners go to high school class or just fixed for poor folks use- not much money in parts most times, just careful labor cleaning, deferred maintenance. RN.
 
(quoted from post at 09:17:29 11/15/19) If you can get non..use it! You can remove the ethanol. Buy hi- test and then remove the crap. Look on Utube and there are boat loads of how to do it videos. Very simple. I like blue dye cause it is easy to see. Really works! Also run your equipment dry so no gas is left in the system's Posted this picture a few days ago and just got done rebuilding this carb. What a mess . It must depend on the metallurgy blend from when the carb is being cast. I keep all of my gas in Eagle safety cans but somehow enough moisture was in some of the gas. Nice carb right???? Plugged half of the gallerys and the main jet. They caught a gas station adding water to the underground tanks. Maybe that is what.caused my carb to get ripped up. First picture is Barkeepers friend. Cleans a lot of the crud off. Went on Ebay and ordered a new carb for around 12 bucks. Just need to swap the choke leaver. Now the next time I will just screw on a new one. These knock off carbs are cheep as can be and they work great. Most likely made in the back of 5he real factory, just with no name on them.
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I've opened up small engine carburetors that looked exactly the same LONG before we even knew what ethanol was. I use E10 in everything I own. NEVER had any problems, even with engines that set for several months during cold weather, and I do NOT use any additives of any kind.
 
The only engines that I buy non-ethanol gas for is our 2-strokes, I heard on here that when you mix oil with gas you lower the octane a little, and ethanol gas sometimes doesn't stay mixed very well. I probably only mix about 5 gallons a year, for our 9 small 2-stroke engines. Everything else gets E-10, and We don't have any problems with anything. I do use some Sea Foam occasionally, if I sense a problem coming on. To buy 91 octane ethanol-free gas for an old tractor with a 6-1 compression ratio and a brass carburetor is a waste of money!
 
I don't have a problem with it but I do what they recommend if I don't forget and that is to make sure the carb is completely dry after you use it. any gas left at all will varnish up. friend of mine says he puts teaspoon of diesel in it after he emptys it and never has a problem when he needs it.
 
I have about 6-7 pieces of Stihl two stroke pieces. I haven't had any problems since I started using the 4.50 a gallon gas my stihl dealers sells. I had problems with them prior to that. I don't know if its ethanol free or not but I mix it with Stihl oil. Although my leaf blower starts allot better in the winter if I keep it in the basement and out of the cold.
 

Marine gas is usually 89 or 90 octane ethanol free.

According to Fuel Testers, ?Phase separation occurs in E10 gas, when only 0.5% water or 3.8 teaspoons water per gallon of fuel is absorbed.

This may be why 2 cycle engines like some outboards have difficulty with E-10, phase separation.
 
I have 3 Stihl chain saws, 3 stihl 2 cycle back pack blowers, 2 stihl string trimmers and 1 stihl hedge trimmer, and 1 stihl hand blower I use a lot, I use gas with 10% ethanol and stihl 2 cycle oil, I don?t have any problems with any of them. You dident say what kind of problem your having? Is your carb adjusted right, is your air filter clean? Did you take the spark aresstor screen out and throw in in the garbage? Or if you want to leave It in a least clean it? Is your fuel fresh? In the past we would burn 5 gallons of mixed gas a week, but we also were running 2 toro 2cycle lawnmowers.
 
Hence why my friend use to say, punch a hole in the muffler with a screwdriver so it will breath better, that?s why I throw the spark screen away also. I don?t use the screwdriver method! I use a drill bit to open them up! Most of the time my blowers are running wide open, no holes needed on there mufflers, they seem to run fine, but the string trimmer needed a little opening up of the muffler.
 
Adding an update. The cleaned carb now works perfectly. One pull and she pops right off. The new head gasket and carb fix, now I have my lawn vacuum again. Start sucking up all of those nasty leaves. This is the one I ordered from Ebay. Keep it as a spare.
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This e10 /or not comes up on here about ever 6 months and as before I have decided it has to be more a regional thing than the ethanol. We have over 17 air cooled small engines here on this place and run ethanol gas with no problems. That is not saying the folks on here that do have problems don,t I just think it may be more where one is. We do not go overboard servicing the weed eaters and chain saws. I will say if I pick up one that I know has not been run in awhile I might dump the gas and put fresh fuel in but overall just not any problems that I can relate to the ethanol.
 

For little bitty difference between the cost of regular and premium . It isn t going to financially break anyone here to use the non ethanol .
Besides small engines, air cooled in particular are prone to detonation which burns holes in pistons and breaks rings . Use premium .
 
jm,
I don't have an issue with e10 in a chainsaw because I only use electric chainsaw powered with a 3500 watt generator.
My weedwacker is a 4 cycle and I've never had a problem with e10. BTW I don't know where I can buy gas without e10. Don't remember when EPA mandated formulated gas with e10. It's been decades. Can't blame my problems on e10.
geo
 
(quoted from post at 15:58:30 11/15/19)
For little bitty difference between the cost of regular and premium . It isn t going to financially break anyone here to use the non ethanol .
Besides small engines, air cooled in particular are prone to detonation which burns holes in pistons and breaks rings . Use premium .
Click to expand...


Ethanol increases the octane in gas, so premium gas which has a higher octane than regular, would have ethanol in it too.
 
Waste of time and money to buy non-ethanol fuel. Buy clean fuel keep and keep it clean. How do you know "non-ethanol" fuel is actually ethanol free? That's right, you don't. I bet I could sell E10 to the haters, tell them it is ethanol free, and all their "problems" would magically disappear. Ethanol is just the scape goat for poor storage and maintenance practices.
 
Thank you I agree to use hi-test. All I can say is both of my Briggs and
Stratton twin V engines do not run correctly on regular grade crap gas. They
will struggle and fuss a little now and then while mowing. Put hi-test in their
tank and they run as happy as can be. Just my experience. For small use stuff
those Green,Red, and Grey cans of gas are worth it, no question. Another thing
is buy your gas at the local boat docks. Totally ethanol free gas. The reason
is that some boats have fiberglass fuel tanks and the ethanol was eating
through the side of the tank and boat! Also too much humidity and the gas
absorbs moisture. One thing I do is take my 5 gallon eagle safety can to the
local airport. Buy yourself some 100 octain AV gas. Not cheep stuff. In really
cold weather my old fashion Kohler castiron engine just refused to start. Put
100 octain airplane fuel in it. Readjust the needle valves on the carb, and it
starts like a dream. You need to close them down a little because the 100 has a
lot more oomph. These are all my opinion but I have been doing it for years.
All I can say is give it a try.
 
Very simple test. Small bottle with some gas. Pour a little water in and a drop of food color. Take a marker and draw where the water line is. Shake it up really good and let it set over night. If the levels change you have ethanol in your gas. Pour off the clear stuff on top and you now have ethanol free gasoline. Tadaaa.
 
EPA did not mandate E10. If that were the case, non-ethanol gas would not be available at all. Take a look on https://www.pure-gas.org. Ethanol free gas is available in many states - including Indiana.
 
Most of the premium (91 octane) in our area does not have ethanol, says so on the pump, and it costs 50 -75 cents more than regular, E-10, 87 octane. The cheaper premium at places like Sams club or Costco is about 30 cents more than regular and has ethanol in it.
 
Not necessarily so. In NJ the hi-test at my station doesn't have ethanol. Some
stations do but it is 5% not 10 %. I run that little bottle with water test
with some food coloring. Shows you pretty quickly. I bought fuel from another
station and I think that is why my carb got ripped up. Will need to empty the
gas out of the leaf vacuum when I am done.
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One thing not mentioned yet is that many 2 cycle engines call for higher octane gas than the basic 87 octane ethanol/gas . I mix 2 cycle gas with ethanol free 91 octane gasoline and fuel stabilizer and have had no problems with anything since doing so. I have had to replace some fuel lines on older things like an older chain saw and a weed eater which had fuel line issues shortly after using the ethanol blend gas for mixing (before ethanol free gas was offered around here). The cost of the ethanol free gas is very close to the higher octane ethanol blend gas here and only talking about maybe 4 gallons a year for mixed gas so the cost is not worth worrying about to me. I do use the 87 octane ethanol blend gas in my garden tractors and older/ antique gas engine farm tractors and haven?t had any problems with them although I have noticed that the ethanol gas tends to clean up older varnish in carburetors so some people may have had a dirty fuel system when the switch was made. Now you got me thinking? maybe that is part of the problem I had with the Holley carburetor on my 4000 Ford a few years back.
 
Lots of boats in Michigan, ethanol-free marine gas is easy to find. I use it in anything that is stored for the winter, just to be safe, lot easier than cleaning carburetors.
 
The same here....I had way more problems 40-50 years ago with small engines-etc than I do
now....I used to have the carburetors off stuff all the time and crank or pull the rope until my
arm fell off....I run 87 octane E-10 in all of my small engines and several of my pulling tractors
and they can sit for 6 months and start right up..Ethanol cant be to blame for everything
that goes wrong...
 
All the fire depts around here have switched to the "canned" fuel. WAY LESS problems with starting and running saws, and Stihl's are the preferred saws around here as well. We don't have time to mess around with getting one started. We need it when we need it, not eventually...
Cuts down on repairs as well. Yes it's not cheap, but your gas powered equipment is going to run RELIABLY.
 

If ethanol was trouble free in gasoline . The aviation regulators would allow the stuff to be mixed with 100LL Aviation fuel.
 
Here is a video that has a LOT of toys and starts out by complaining about the ethanol. I would want to bet he knew just a little more.
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Jay leno
 
So, you are saying that the problems with E10 are all imaginary? I think not.

I have seen first hand evidence of problems with ethanol in several pieces of equipment that were brought to me. Some were repairable, others not. Carbs were too gummed up to repair and too expensive to replace.

When E10 was starting to appear in my area, gas stations began switching one by one until there was only one in my area that still sold ethanol free gas. The local parts stores reported that fuel pump sales increased as the availability of non-ethanol gas decreased. Coincidence? I think not.

I sure have had to replace a lot of fuel lines on small 2-cycle equipment like string trimmers, leaf blowers, and the like. Never had that problem before ethanol. Also imaginary?

How about the boating aspect? That imaginary as well?

Then there is the issue of aviation. Ethanol is strictly forbidden in aircraft.

To sum it up, the "haters" as you call them definitely would know the difference.
 
That's right! Trouble is the stupid govement is still trying to cram it down
our throats. You should hear my friend who is a mechanic at the airport.
 
In my area the forest fire guys too. When you are done dump the saw out. Then start it up and let the carburetor get empty. Next call, open a can and pour it in. The saw starts!!
 
Does Canada use ethanol blend gas similar to what we do
here in the USA? Here in N.Y. gas is 10percent ethanol blend
(E10)unless you find a supplier with non ethanol gas which is
usually also higher octane. Popular with boaters as I have
heard they have had a lot of issues with ethanol blend. I
believe in the midwestern states it?s also possible to buy E85
in some places which requires a ?flex-fuel ? vehicle.
 
I have been using 87 octane non ethanol gas for years in everything I own except my truck. I use a Primrose fuel stabilizer also. My tractors can set for months and three to four pulls on the crank they start and run like they were used the day before. One tractor sat for over four years and started easy. Lawn mowers run on the same fuel as well as my chain saw which hardly ever gets used anymore. I start the saw twice a year and it starts and runs perfect. The gas in the saw is at least two years old. I won't run anything but non ethanol.
 
(quoted from post at 20:23:08 11/15/19)
(quoted from post at 15:58:30 11/15/19)
For little bitty difference between the cost of regular and premium . It isn t going to financially break anyone here to use the non ethanol .
Besides small engines, air cooled in particular are prone to detonation which burns holes in pistons and breaks rings . Use premium .
Click to expand...


Ethanol increases the octane in gas, so premium gas which has a higher octane than regular, would have ethanol in it too.
Click to expand...

No. Ethanol is one way to increase the octane rating of a gasoline, but it's not the only way. It's how the fuel is produced and blended that determines the Octane rating. We had real high octane fuels 40 years ago (108 Octane of higher) that had no ethanol in them. Same for aviation fuels where ethanol is strictly forbidden.
 

I'll give you my 2 cents. There are lots of people across the nation that use ethanol fuel mixes in small engines, both 2 and 4 stroke, and never have any issues. There are also lots of people across the nation that have found they had all sorts of problems in 2 and 4 stroke small engine, and some larger engines, that were directly related to ethanol use. I'm one of the latter group. I've stood in waste deep snow changing a fuel line that never gave a moments problem until I put ethanol in it. I've cleaned countless carbs and had to toss a few that never had a problem until an ethanol fuel was used. You can go to pretty much any forum or manufacturers website or look in the owners manual of a small engine and find ethanol warnings. It is a real problem. That still doesn't mean that just using ethanol once will ruin anything, but over time you stand a good chance of having increased issues. If you use the ethanol fuel blends I get locally, I guarantee you will have problems in a short time in small air cooled engines.

My opinion and worth just what you paid for it.
 
I used to blame the government for ethanol too. But, every time the federal government even considers dropping or reducing the requirements for ethanol, the corn producers throw a fit out of fear that loosing 40 percent of their existing market will collapse corn prices, so the spiral continues. The same thing happens when restrictions or limits on the use of high fructose corn syrup in children's foods are considered.

I suspect we will be stuck with ethanol until corn producers find new markets for their expanding corn production, or they develop a market for alternative crops and can decrease their reliance on corn production.
 
(quoted from post at 08:30:36 11/16/19) Does Canada use ethanol blend gas similar to what we do
here in the USA? Here in N.Y. gas is 10percent ethanol blend
(E10)unless you find a supplier with non ethanol gas which is
usually also higher octane. Popular with boaters as I have
heard they have had a lot of issues with ethanol blend. I
believe in the midwestern states it?s also possible to buy E85
in some places which requires a ?flex-fuel ? vehicle.
Click to expand...

The Sarnia Shell refinery supplies the local Canadians Tire gas bar . 87 octane is 10% ethanol , 89 octane is 5 % and 91 octane is 0%.
 

The two highest octane formulations of unleaded gasoline is toluene and xylene . Can t go any higher and still be gasoline .
 
No doubt Ethanol gives some problems. Then the other problem is like two of my riding mowers that have never had anything except 10 per cent ethanol gasoline used in them since I acquired them in 2006. One was new, other is a 81 model Cub Cadet 672. Haven't had any fuel related problems with either. Never drain them, never add additives and they both just sit in the barn all winter.

Then you have one of my H Farmalls. Complete teardown and going over (I'm not a believer in calling them restored as they are only new one time). Last fall I added some Sea Foam because it didn't want to idle quite like it should. Well, this spring, no gas flow to carburetor. Well, just blow out line to tank, nope, take off sediment bowl, no flow out of tank. Drained tank with hose, removed sediment bowl shut off assembly. The inlet was totally coated with white looking hard crud.

Cleaned it and carburetor and all is good. That Sea Foam really reacted with something that was in the tank or gasoline.

A few years ago , former customer brought in a carburetor from his Super H Farmall . Never saw a carburetor so gummed up. Had to sand blast the crud out of the bowl. He had treated it with Sea Foam before putting it away for the winter.

I have burned ethanol blend in my cars and pickup since 1987 no fuel related problems.

Never use ethanol blend in chain saws or two cycle trimmer. The hoses on trimmer turned hard as a carp last year.

I have seen fuel line hoses turn brittle with ethanol blend on older equipment.

Had a 300 Farmall that it looked like someone had poured tar in the intake ports. That was right at the time the 706 was new as he had not put that gasoline in his 706 yet. Maybe 1964, long before ethanol blends. And so it goes. GAS GETS BAD, AlWAYS HAS, AlWAYS WILL.
 
Just for a little test put a couple of shots of gas in a glass jar(no lid). Just set it on a shelf and check it in 60 days. Try it with all of your local blends.
 
It is approved by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) for use in any conventional, gasoline-powered vehicle. The use of E10 was spurred by the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990 (and subsequent laws), which mandated the sale of oxygenated fuels in areas with unhealthy levels of carbon monoxide.

I don't know of any gas station selling gas without e10
 
The word was "approved," not "mandated." The E10 came from the surplus of ethanol that was produced in anticipation of increased demand for E85 (that never happened). This was all part of the renewable fuels act of 2007. Not only was E10 NOT mandated, it does not even count towards the goals outlined in RFS2007.

I see on the pure-gas website that there are no stations in your immediate area selling non-ethanol fuel, but there are 150 gas stations in Indiana that are selling ethanol free gas. There are another 191 in Ohio and 170 in Illinois.

I repeat: if this was a mandate, there would not be ANY stations selling ethanol free gasoline. The so-called "mandate" refers to E85 and biodiesel fuels as well as having a minimum biofuel component in fuels like home heating oil.
 
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