PTO driven generator to power a house

chas036

Member
I am looking to buy a generator to power my house in emergency situations, something in the 8000 to 10,000 watt range. I started looking at gasoline generators but then started thinking that maybe a diesel generator would be better choice since I heat my house with fuel oil/kerosene, and would have on hand 200 to 300 gallons at any one time that I could use in a generator. If there were a major emergency, gasoline would be in short supply anayway.

Then I started thinking , since I have diesel tractor (JD 720 electric start), I thought that maybe a pto driven generator would be the most economical choice. My question is, has anyone ever used a pto driven generator in a emergency situation like 2 ro 3 days to power a house, and would you recommend this method?
 
Farmers have been using PTO generators to run their operations for days or weeks at a time during power outages, including their houses for decades.

PTO generators do not put out special "farmer electricity" that only works on barns...

Now here's the main rub with the PTO generator: If you have only one tractor, and you need it for some other reason such as to plow the driveway or clear downed trees or to pull someone out of the ditch, you now have to power down the house, unhook the generator from the tractor, do what you need to do, then hook it all back up and play "catch up" from the time the power was out.

Another concern you might have is the stability and cleanliness of the power. Your tractor needs a good governor and a surplus of horsepower for whatever load is being placed on it so it stays at a relatively constant RPM, for sensitive electronic devices...

The biggest problem with self-powered generators are the owners. They don't maintain them, keep fresh gas in them, run them from time to time, so they are never ready when they're needed.
 
I have a 13kw PTO generator as a whole house backup. Our power was typically out for days at a time due to big snows due to downed overhead lines. But the year I bought the generator the power company ran those lines underground, and the power rarely goes out now. So in the past 4 years I have only needed it once, and it ran perfect on my 26hp compact diesel for about 2 hours that one time.

Make sure you get one with clean power that puts out +/5% total harmonic distortion for sensitive electronics (for appliances and hvac). The only drawback I see is that the throttle on the tractor may not hold the RPM at a steady rate over time like a portable or standby generator. If the motor RPM dropped you could damage the powered equipment. I think portable/standby generators have an automatic shutdown if the generator cannot maintain the speed. I set my tractor RPM with a frequency meter and monitored the RPM during the 2 hours.
 
I have a 25kw Winpower pto generator. I bought it shortly after the big Y2K scare for $500 with the cart at an auction. I have used it after 2 ice storms, first for 4 days, and 2nd for 3 days. It will run everything in our house and doesn't seem to pull the 4010 down at all. Probably the 2 biggest concerns would be a decent manual transfer switch, and keeping snow/rain from being sucked down the intake. I was also told to run it annually. Wife would probably kill me if I sold it.

Mike
 
I have a 15kv PTO generator. I also heat my house with diesel. I always have around 500 gallons of diesel on hand. So same as you it was a no brainier. You might want to step up to at least a 15kv (15000 watt). It takes about 2.5 PTO hp per 1000 watts and your tractor would handle a 15kv fine. The big draw back to a PTO generator is when the power goes out you have to get it out and get everything hooked up. Not fun in the rain, snow or the middle of the night. I have my house all wired properly for it. During the winter I keep the generator hooked to one of my tractors. I have gas and diesel tractors. If you only have a diesel tractor and it won't start when it is cold without a block heater and it was not plugged in when the power went out you are kind of dead in the water. Have a back up plan. I can run the pto generator with my gas tractor and also have a small gas generator if I need to run the block heater on my diesel tractor.
 
... you have to get it out and get everything hooked up. Not fun in the rain, snow or the middle of the night
Yep, be ready for ... "Honey, is the power out? I'm cold!! You paid how much for that &*$@#! generator? Now you get your butt out there! What? It's not hooked up?" :)
 
Like others said farmers have used PTO generators almost since the beginning of time so PTO generators are well proven. Very few farmers have used a two banger Deere on the generators because of the uneven power given out by those two big cylinders surging away. Your 720 will probably be loafing most of the time so the power surges won't be as noticeable as they would if the tractor was under full load but you still might notice a slight ripple in the lights. I would be leery of your computer operated devices in your house because of this.
 
chas, good questions, FWIW here are my thoughts:

1) In the event you choose to go with a stand alone "diesel" powered genset, make sure it will perform satisfactory having sufficient HP if you want to use your "home heating oil" to power it for extended periods ????? I've ran diesel engines on kerosene and/or home heating oil but obviously cant guarantee whatever engine you use with whatever fuel.

2) In the event you choose to go with a tractor PTO powered genset using your 720 two cylinder tractor, you might want to consider an Inverter style if such are available??? If its standard non inverter RPM dependent genset, I've heard reports that John Deere two bangers (due to their non smooth only two cylinder response) can cause a slight power flitter. Especially if non inverter, you need good smooth steady constant well governed and tight controlled RPM power WELL DUH... Some (not all) sensitive electronic devices might not perform well if dirty non regulated roaming frequency is applied !!!!!!!!!!!

3) There are a ton of tractor powered gensets out there that provide satisfactory emergency power for extended durations.

4) In the rare event you may be out of power for days on end, you sure have to look at the availability of whatever fuel you choose, but it appears you're already on that page.

5) Be sure to use safe and proper Switching and Transfer methods to feed emergency backup power to your home !!!! Where fire and life safety are concerned if in doubt consult trained competent professional engineers and electricians and your local utility versus risking ones life on lay opinions.

John T Long retired and NEC rusty electrical engineer so noooooooooooo warranty lol read the specs and manuals
 
To use a PTO unit for that long. You need a tractor you will not need during that time. One that can idle for that long and is in good shape. PTO units do have their place on a farm. But you would be better with a good standby generator. One that you test at least once a month. I have seen to many four/five year old generators. With 3 hours on them. Then the owner complain because they don't work.

The fuel you need depends on your location. How easy is it to get. Diesel,gas or Propane/NG. I would not go with gasoline. The new stuff dosen't seem to store well. Diesel would be my first choice. Then Propne or NG depending on where you live.

The next choice is how much power do you need. You need to add up your total load. Then buy a unit that has a little more than you need. If you need 10KW get a 15KW unit. Always better to have more than you need. Up to a point. Dont buy a 50KW unit when a 15KW will cover you.

But the most inportant thing is to use it. Don't let it sit for years. Then expect it to work.

And my advice. Stay away from Generac. 47 years of knowing why.
 
"And my advice. Stay away from Generac. 47 years of knowing why. "

I place a high value on your 47 years worth of experience, Billy. Thanks for sharing.


John T Past Generac now Onan user
 
Just trying to help out when I can John T.From what I hear the guy down here. Still hasn't had his fixed. And it has been two years. So much for warranty. Gonna be a cold one today. 95 down from 101.
 
Our power was out for about 19 hours from Friday evening through Saturday afternoon. I didn't get my tractor PTO alternator going until Sat. morning. It's an old Winpower 25/15. 25K short term, 15/K continuous. I run it with a little gas tractor. I have eight tractors to choose from, and if I'm going to be running more than the house, I'll use a bigger tractor. I bought this unit so that if there's a power outage while I'm drying corn, I can at least still do something to avoid loosing a whole lot of hot, wet corn. So, I appreciate your desire to utilize your tractor, and have ample power, but, a JD 720D would be a last choice for me to do something like this.
 
Ill second onan(not just because they pay me every week). I bought my pto generator from a Maurice Mauler over your way, think all the farmers got them from him.
 
The plus side of using a PTO generator is your tractor has most likely been used on and off (or continuously) during the year. If you generator is like mine it gets started once or twice in the year and started when the power goes off. IF for some reason after sitting for 4 months without running and it decides to gum up the fuel you are without power. Meanwhile your tractor sits in the shed unused.....
 
The other possibility is "minimalist". We have a 2000 watt Honda, which works fine for us. If you have a wood heating stove and a Coleman cook stove, the only thing you really need to operate is your refer and freezer(s). We run the Honda outside, with an extension cord to the freezers and to the refer in the house. We only run one at a time, alternating among them, and then only a couple or 3 times a day, to keep the temp down. If you need power for water, get a big enough unit to run your well pump, but we don't bother with it- keep a couple cases of bottled water on hand, and dip out of the creek to fill the toilets. Just skip baths for a couple of days.

The key to all this is usually SWMBO- mine is used to rough camping in the woods on horse rides, so she's fine with roughing it. Your results may vary (boy, is that ever an understatement!).

What we do now is just move into the self-contained RV and act like we're camping. Run the generator if the batteries get low. Still have to keep the refer and freezers cold in the house, of course, but you could actually do that off the RV generator.
 
(quoted from post at 15:06:46 09/16/19) I am looking to buy a generator to power my house in emergency situations, something in the 8000 to 10,000 watt range. I started looking at gasoline generators but then started thinking that maybe a diesel generator would be better choice since I heat my house with fuel oil/kerosene, and would have on hand 200 to 300 gallons at any one time that I could use in a generator. If there were a major emergency, gasoline would be in short supply anayway.

Then I started thinking , since I have diesel tractor (JD 720 electric start), I thought that maybe a pto driven generator would be the most economical choice. My question is, has anyone ever used a pto driven generator in a emergency situation like 2 ro 3 days to power a house, and would you recommend this method?
I built a pto generator using a 10k alternator (7.2k continuous) from Harbor Freight. Never had to use it for extended intervals, but wouldn't hesitate to run it for days at a time if needed. Mine attaches with the 3 point hitch on my Kubota B7200, which has 14 hp at the pto. More than enough.
 
My two Generacs, 16KW standby generator and 27HP Generac powered Dixie Chopper run flawlessly.
 
Thanks for all the helpfull info. I do have 7 tractors on the farm, JD-A, JD-B, JD-620, JD-730 gas, JD-720 Diesel , two Olivers, a 1800 gas and a 1600 diesel. Would the oliver 1600 diesel be a better tractor fopr generator then the 720?

I thought about using the 720 because it was my most economical tractor to operate, but from what I have read, it might be better to use the 1600.
 
I have a 15 KW PTO generator I have used many times over the years to power my house. Nice thing about it is there is no extra engine to worry about getting running. I even hooked it to my HG Oliver crawler one time and even though it rated 20 HP max, it did fine. That is one nice thing about the setup. You only need enough HP to handle whatever load you call for.

That all said, I like having a gasoline genset on hand for backup. Not propane and not diesel. Why? Ease of starting and efficiency. Chances are a power outage could be in the dead of winter. If the genset is in an unheated area - best chance of easy starting is with a gasoline powered unit.

I have the Harbor Freight 9000 watt surge, 7250 watt continuous unit. All I need to get by in an emergency. I paid $650 for it plus another $40 for a battery. I think it is a great unit for the price/

I still have my PTO gen and a diesel tractor plus 300 gallons of diesel fuel. So if the end of the world comes - I guess I can hook up the PTO generator and watch DVDs on my TV for a few weeks - with all the lights on - and well pump going - until the final end comes.
cvphoto36640.jpg
 
I don't know that much on tractors. But I do know you have to be careful with some diesels. On how they react to ideling to long.Some
like the Onan DJC units and the Allis Chalmers,Detroits,Cat units. Don't like it. They tend to clog up. I am sure others can tell you
more.
 
I have a pto generator, and I connect it to a pole switch. It shuts off the grid, so I am not sending power down the line that could shock a power worker, that is working down the line to restore power. My generator is big enough to provide enough power for both my house and dairy barn to operate as normal. And requires around 80Hp tractor. I just use whatever tractor is handy. Longest I have ever generated our own power is two days. Obviously this is more than what you would need just for a house, but a pole switch is a must in my mind, and not cheap to buy, or have installed. If you are on natural gas, I would forget the tractor generator, and put in a dedicated gas unit, connected to the natural gas supply.

cvphoto36641.jpg
 
timcasbolt How did you get the shaft speed up to the 3600 most of the Harbor Freight generators need??? I have a 10K generator I bought 15 years ago to make a PTO driven generator. I never figured out and easy way to up drive it enough to work correctly using a 540 rpm PTO.
 
(quoted from post at 10:26:54 09/16/19) it might be better to use the 1600.
've run the PTO generator on my Oliver 1650 no problem, has a rock solid throttle control -- stays put. The 283 is a bit more thirsty compared to your 1600 engine I think. Would burn ~4 gallon per hour maybe?
 
(quoted from post at 15:52:16 09/16/19) Like others said farmers have used PTO generators almost since the beginning of time so PTO generators are well proven. Very few farmers have used a two banger Deere on the generators because of the uneven power given out by those two big cylinders surging away. Your 720 will probably be loafing most of the time so the power surges won't be as noticeable as they would if the tractor was under full load but you still might notice a slight ripple in the lights. I would be leery of your computer operated devices in your house because of this.
LOL We ran ours and a couple of neighbors with a 720 gas, there was no surging or uneven power.
 
I have basically the same setup as you. Have a 1500 watt generator to move around between the furnace, reffer,etc.. Water is no problem as I have a spring out the back door that will provide all the water I could want. Spring water is plumbed into the house directly from the spring for use with my water cooled AC. AC system without a compressor raises my electric bill about $10/mo. in the hottest weather.
 
After the oil embargo in the early 70's I read an article where someone used a natural gas powered water cooled engine to make electricity. They also extracted all the heat energy off radiator, oil and even exhaust to heat the house and water.

If you are really concerned about power outages in winter, why not kill two birds with one stone? Heat and electricity.

CO getting in the house would be my big concern.

BIL had a 40 ft diesel pusher motor home. The generator ran off diesel. So diesel generators do exist.
 

Chas,
I have a Winco PTO 7 10 that we no longer need that I would be willing to sell if you would be interested. It powered a 4200 square foot home several times and did a very adequate job. It works and looks like new. Tom OConnor
810 964 4850
 
I was built a generator using that same
generator head. It only lasted about 5
minutes. The plastic fan stripped out from
the shaft. I took it back and they gave me
another one; brand new. I put it on and it
lasted 10 minutes. Took it back and got my
money back. Trouble is, I wasted a lot of
time and money. They quit selling those
after that. The fans were made out of a too
brittle plastic. They should have made them
from nylon.
 
Chas , take this information for what it is worth, just one man,s experience. Been selling KUBOTA generators for years. My home has a Generac wired in. My experience and I have seen many. Your PTO generators hooked up to the tractor and you set the output by the speed of the pto. Now ever thing is fine, but unknown to you the load increase like a hot water heater kicks on or something. First thing you know you have low voltage to say the refrigerator and it tries to start either kicks out or damages the compressor. The PTO generators were life saver for farmers milking cows and the lights go out or something like that. They are probably better than nothing even in a home with no power but a static generator wither air cooled or diesel is much better. New ones have electronic voltage regulation and seem to work well. Again just my experience I have had several folks come in and buy a stand alone generator after a storm saying their pto operated unit caused problems.
 
John he is livid about that recommendation and can back it up ,BUT he does admit he has no experience within the last 10 years or so. GENERAC is now the largest seller of home standby generators and has a dealers nations wide witch provide home service. Also all unit sold in the last few years carry a 7 year warranty. Lots of us satisfied GENERAC users out here. Mine is 20KW whole house on propane. Has never failed so far and we have had some 50 hr outages.
 
I was out of power for a week due to an ice storm back in "76.
I happened to have an old Ford in the back yard. I took out the
heater and put garden hose ends on the hoses and ran it into the
house. Let the car idle while running the heater full speed by
running power from the car to the heater. Got a second heater
from a salvage yard. Kept the house at 50-60 degrees while the
outside temp was in the 20's. No frozen pipes and an extra blanket
did the trick. Cost me a gallon of gas an hour, but gas was not
that expensive back then.
 
(quoted from post at 19:07:14 09/16/19) timcasbolt How did you get the shaft speed up to the 3600 most of the Harbor Freight generators need??? I have a 10K generator I bought 15 years ago to make a PTO driven generator. I never figured out and easy way to up drive it enough to work correctly using a 540 rpm PTO.
I built a frame to hold the alternator and a set of sprockets on pillow blocks. My kubota has an 858 rpm output, so 60 teeth on the drive and 14 on the driven, then adjust the throttle for 60 hertz. I also built one for a 540 pto, but that required a speeder in the middle. There used to be pictures of it on practical machinist, but I don't know if they're still there.
 
(quoted from post at 10:52:16 09/16/19) Like others said farmers have used PTO generators almost since the beginning of time so PTO generators are well proven. Very few farmers have used a two banger Deere on the generators because of the uneven power given out by those two big cylinders surging away. Your 720 will probably be loafing most of the time so the power surges won't be as noticeable as they would if the tractor was under full load but you still might notice a slight ripple in the lights. I would be leery of your computer operated devices in your house because of this.

Using an "A" , 60, "G" or 70 spark ignition will oscillate and surge on the pto operating a generator.
The Dubuque two cylinders, the B,50,520,530,620,630, any 720, any 730 or the 80,820,830,840 are usually smooth enough on the pto .
 
Would the drive pulleys off a 540 PTO grinder mixer or hammer mill be close to 6:1 speed increase?
 
Yes. Out of that group the 1600 would be my choice. I find even the alignment of the PTO makes a difference. Sometimes I'll also turn on one of the smaller fan motors at the bins to put a little more load on the alternator in an effort to smooth out the system. My house is such a small electrical load that the alternator almost "coasts". I think some of that must be in the chain in the drive case on the alternator.
 
I've two old pto alternators left over from when we milked cows and had to run some fairly parlor recording equipment. Always used a plug in electric clock to set and maintain speed . Correlate it with your watch or cell phone.
 
(quoted from post at 18:10:04 09/16/19) A generator is such a hassle, especially in the winter. Find a friend or hotel for a couple of days.
And frozen pipes, and other damage to a house is an even worse hassle. Not to mention having to compete for a room with other people too lazy to prepare for a power outage, not to mention that hotels and your friends might not have power either....
 
All of the tractors on your list above are Waterloo built tractors. Dubuqe built tractors of that time frame were
the 2 cylinder upright engines such as the M, 40,420,430, 435.

Later the Dubuqe factory built small 4 cylinder tractors like the 1010 & 2010.
 

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