Soy Bean Farming

Married2Allis

Well-known Member
I have a good friend that has a ~250 acre farm. His family had a dairy operation there for years from 1955 and to about 20 years ago. He has kept into farming with hay and soybeans and also part- time jobs to keep the farm. He currently sells about $15,000 worth of hay per year. He still has decent tillage equipments, at least 2 grain trucks, and tractors in good condition: IH 1086, Case 1370, Case 1070, etc. He was talking last night about growing soybeans but not having the 'drying' equipment.

Just wondering what he would need in equipment to put most of those acres into soybeans and also what is the cost/profit per acre? He has mostly hay in those fields now. What are the risks of growing soybeans in a small operation?
 
Location matters on questions like this, cold north, hot dry SW, humid SE, where?

Generally one does not need drying equipment for soybeans, they dry naturally out in the field 98 out of 100 years. Unless you are someplace really weird climate?

Beans are a ?fussy? crop, some years good some years bad, it depends on the weather in September usually. They don?t like being planted year after year on the same
field in most locations, diseases build up in the soil and make them poorer. (It is much easier to grow corn on corn, beans on beans does work in some locations but is a
disaster in others.) weed control in beans can be more difficult unless you use Liberty traited these days.

On the other hand they can be planted later, typically harvested earlier, they don?t need N fertilizer, you get less bushels per acre then corn so are easier to haul and
store, and so forth. They don?t need drying equipment,

I would not want to plant 250 acres of beans year after year. I would want a crop rotation. Beans leave a little N in the soil, so rotating to corn or grass hay is a nicer
plan.

Right now in the farm economy, bean provides suck, corn prices are scraping by, and hay prices are pretty good, so his choices seem odd?

I would do more of a 100 acres soybeans, 100 acres corn, 50 acres hay rotation if it were me. But maybe that doesn?t fit your location? Wherever that is. And we don?t
know his motivation to change from mostly hay to mostly soybeans.

Paul
 
2020 might not be the year to increase soybean production. It could be better to wait until after the export markets stabilize. If China decides to invest in soybean production in South America and move its pork production there too it could be a rough few years while US farmers search for new export markets.
 
Thanks Paul, he is in Maryland. This September has been hot and dry, but in recent years has been cooler and wetter. His wife is having to retire for health reasons, so I think his income picture is changing ... may be the reason he's wanting the change. I think he is getting tired of catering to hay buyers. Alot of horse farms in the area. He does not grow corn as far as I know. So your idea would be corn/hay/soybeans, can you rotate corn/soybeans? I have no idea about soil or weed conditions. We normally get hot summers here.

What is cost /profit per acre of corn, soybeans?
 
There are years in the Eastern US that beans come out at 15, 16, or more percent moisture which means having air in the storage bin and most likely a burner to add heat.
If your friend lacks a bin then that means depending on others which I would not do. With the unstable export market for soybeans elevators that could dry beans may not
have room leaving your friend with out a way to deal with his crop. If he is in a high equity position it might be prudent if he lacks cash to borrow in order to erect a bin
complete with air and heat. Even if he can't afford or does not see the need to have enough storage for all his crop having something will at least allow the combine to move
in the field for a time while the local elevator makes room. I would not rely on a plan that just leaves all the crop out late in the fall as the East Coast is prone to storms off of
the Atlantic including those that dump snow.
 
I've been doing a corn/soybean rotation for 20+ years. Corn one year, soybeans the next. If he's serious about soybeans, tell him
to google up Dr Fred Below, Univ of Ill agronomy professor. His presentations are all available online. "Six secrets of soybean
success" is a good one to start with. Informative and also entertaining. Soybeans improve the tilth of the soil due to their root
composition. Much better than corn. For example, you'll have about 34000 corn plants in an acre whereas you'll have about 165000
soy plants per acre and those soy plants puts down tap roots vs corn which has a clump of roots that tends to hold the soil
together. I don't like to see corn fields right next to soybean fields. I guess farmers do that to hedge their bets but I don't pay
much attention to that aspect. I'm more concerned about blocking diseases and pests. Generally, a pest or disease that is
comfortable in a corn field cannot survive in a soybean field and vice versa. That's why I like to see those crops as far away from
each other as possible. I think it isolates them better although I've never heard any learned "expert" talk about that. Diseases
and pests affecting soybeans will be different in Maryland from here in Wis. I'm about 100 miles north of the "aphid line" and we
don't have asian rust around here. He might see both in MD. Corn/soy/alfalfa would be my idea of an ideal rotation plan. I just
don't like the idea of trying to sell hay. If he's already set up for hay, that would be a good way to go, I would think.
 
Soybeans are dismal, corn is not real good, in today?s Ag economics.

We are in a tussle with the main global buyer of soybeans as well as several world over-supply issues, and so they have dropped 20% or so in value the past year. We
export between 1/3 and 1/2 of our soybeans so world prices is what matters, we have to sell to the rest of the world. African Swine Fever has killed off 1/3 or more of
China?s hogs, meaning they really don?t need to buy much soybeans for hog feed anyhow. In short the world just doesn?t want many soybeans right now we have then
stacked up no place to go.

Corn prices have dropped along with soybeans, as we farmers are growing a bit more corn and less soybeans. As well, ethanol fuel is under attack and there appears
to be less demand for corn here in the USA. Together, this has also dropped corn prices quite a bit.


Both of these are very political issues, I?m trying to just say how it is not stir up a political fight here.

Meanwhile, hay prices have gone the opposite direction here in the Midwest, I?m in Minnesota, growing and baling dry hay has been very difficult in the cold springs and
wet summers we have had, hay prices have doubled in the past 4 years.

Markets prices might be different there than here, but here your friend would be foolish dollar wise, if he has an established hay market.

Here in the upper Midwest it is typical to be growing 50% corn, and 40% beans, and 10% odds and ends crops. Corn and beans compliment each other and rotate well.
In our climate and market corn is the better crop, soybeans make less but are part of the rotation.

Honestly, it is hard to see a profit on an acre of soybeans this year. Who knows maybe next year is different.

Food in the USA should be really cheap, grain prices have dropped a lot over the past 3 years. You might want to ask your grocery store or restaurant why their bill to
you isnt 2/3 of what it was 5 years ago. Grain prices are not a happy topic......

Paul
 
(quoted from post at 09:08:25 09/13/19) There are years in the Eastern US that beans come out at 15, 16, or more percent moisture which means having air in the storage bin and most likely a burner to add heat.
If your friend lacks a bin then that means depending on others which I would not do. With the unstable export market for soybeans elevators that could dry beans may not
have room leaving your friend with out a way to deal with his crop. If he is in a high equity position it might be prudent if he lacks cash to borrow in order to erect a bin
complete with air and heat. Even if he can't afford or does not see the need to have enough storage for all his crop having something will at least allow the combine to move
in the field for a time while the local elevator makes room. I would not rely on a plan that just leaves all the crop out late in the fall as the East Coast is prone to storms off of
the Atlantic including those that dump snow.
Yes he was saying too that the later he could wait to sell his crop, the better the price would be -- but the weather conditions were a risk, and the beans might absorb more moisture. I wonder what bin size would he typically need and what would the drying equipment cost? Is that something you have to build away from other buildings, can it be inside of a barn?
 
When corn was about $6.00 per bushel, there was still less than 10 cents worth of corn in a box of corn flakes. Let's see, how much do they get for a box of corn flakes?
 
(quoted from post at 09:25:07 09/13/19) Soybeans are dismal, corn is not real good, in today's Ag economics.
What would 100 acres of soybeans yield in your area (if a $$ amount can be quoted)? Are there subsidies that apply?
 
Well. 250 acres times 50 bu an acre would be 12,500 bushels.

In a bad year you might hope to get to 30bu an acre, in a great year and really paying attention to detail you might get more than 80 bu an acre beans. So, would a
15,000 to 20,000 bu bin be about right? But if he rotates with corn, then corn would yield 120-220 bu an acre and would need a pretty good drying system. Some real
investment.

It?s hard to wrap my head around drying beans very often, does just blowing air work there, or do you need heat too? A simple setup with a metal floor with holes and a
big fan to air dry wouldn?t be too bad. If you need to add heat then drying grain becomes complicated and expensive. More or less drying beans is hard, as they dry too
fast so you end up with some wet beans on top and way over dry beans on the bottom.

Drying a crop is about airflow, so setting something up inside a shed already there sounds very suspicious, it?s not how things work for the scale size of 250 acres of
crop. Growing and handling grain is a lot different than growing and storing hay, I think there might be a huge learning curve here?

Paul
 
(quoted from post at 09:32:57 09/13/19) When corn was about $6.00 per bushel, there was still less than 10 cents worth of corn in a box of corn flakes. Let's see, how much do they get for a box of corn flakes?
$4 per box. That is insane.
 
Bean yields are 30-80 bu an acre here, so we hope to average 50-60 for those who are honest.

We have a lot of wet ground and a high ph, so our ground is more suited to corn growing than bean growing.

Anyhow, cash price for beans today is $8.11 a bu. So, gross $500 an acre?

If you own the land it?s $50 an acre taxes. If you rent you will have a hard time finding land for $200 an acre.

Seed is $30-50 an acre.

Fertilizer is $75 an acre.

Machinery, fuel, time, spread over the acres.

There is t much $$$ left.

5-6 years ago beans were worth $12, last year they were $10, that made the math a little more fun......last week beans were worth about $7.75, so don?t count on the
$8.... we are in a downward spiral for grains.

Yes there are some subsidies, but this year they only apply in a complicated way to what crops were grown last year. You need someone with a crystal ball to
understand what you might get next year, if anything, on land that was growing hay this year. Some people got $15, some got $100 an acre, some got nothing. And
mostly you forgot that on a portion of your acres, not every acre qualified. It is extremely complicated.

Paul
 

Tell him to concentrate on hay until the beans market comes back. He could put you on board as his PR person, LOL.
 
(quoted from post at 10:03:00 09/13/19)
He could put you on board as his PR person, LOL.
lol -- I want to help in any way I can. He sells his hay cheaper than anyone else so he has plenty of customers, and doesn't mind making smaller bales.
 
You want good airflow going in and uninhibited outward flow of moist air from the drying process. You might dry a couple wagon loads using twist in aerators in a heated
shop but using a barn to dry a few thousand bushels at a time could be very problematic. Further, a bin really should not be blocked in tight by other buildings. Maybe a
building on the prevalent windward side during winter to keep snow from blowing in. I will reiterate that handling grain in the East is a little different game than the Midwest.
Very seldom does grain or soybeans get dry enough to store while sitting in the field during the fall. If the ground is dry and the crop is thrash able it is advisable to start
soybean or corn harvest and use artificial means to bring the crop down in moisture to a safe level for storage. Waiting for the crop to hit storable moisture in the field might
mean having to deal with poor weather which on soybeans will kick the moisture back up in a hurry. Maybe you friend could find a used bin/fan/burner to put up and save on
the cost somewhat. Further, you can't dump on the ground nor have a dirt floor so an elevated concrete floor need to be put in place as well. Even with some breaks your
friend will have over 10,000 dollars invested if he can find a used system that will handle 5,000 bushels. Best to call a dealer to know what new is.
 
A lot of emphasis has been put on storage here but I want to mention harvesting and specifically the combine. If he has a combine or looking to buy one I will mention that
it is very advantageous to have a rotary combine. More thrashing area before the crop exits to separation i.e. chaeffer/sieves means the tougher the conditions that the the
combine will get the soybeans out of the pods. This is where the rotary has it all over the cylinder/walker machine. Further, the table that mounts on the combine should
have the ability to closely shave the field surface which a lot of older small grain units can not do. It is advisable for this reason for your friend to have what is called a flex
head or "bean" head to make sure he can get the maximum amount to crop from the field. Don't have to own the newest and feel that the older IH and NH machines can
work very well if good maintenance is followed.
 
Not saying that caution should not be exercised but I had a few college professors say if you wait until the upswing is obvious you can cost yourself some opportunity. Also, this friend of the OP needs to gain experience. Therefore, putting in perhaps twenty acres for 2020 might be a good idea.
 
Thanks for all of the great replies and advice. Seems like alot to consider. Could something like this be adapted as a type of dryer or does the grain have to be spread out?

mvphoto42594.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 09:57:29 09/13/19) Bean yields are 30-80 bu an acre here, so we hope to average 50-60 for those who are honest.

We have a lot of wet ground and a high ph, so our ground is more suited to corn growing than bean growing.

Anyhow, cash price for beans today is $8.11 a bu. So, gross $500 an acre?

If you own the land it?s $50 an acre taxes. If you rent you will have a hard time finding land for $200 an acre.

Seed is $30-50 an acre.

Fertilizer is $75 an acre.

Machinery, fuel, time, spread over the acres.

There is t much $$$ left.

5-6 years ago beans were worth $12, last year they were $10, that made the math a little more fun......last week beans were worth about $7.75, so don?t count on the
$8.... we are in a downward spiral for grains.

Yes there are some subsidies, but this year they only apply in a complicated way to what crops were grown last year. You need someone with a crystal ball to
understand what you might get next year, if anything, on land that was growing hay this year. Some people got $15, some got $100 an acre, some got nothing. And
mostly you forgot that on a portion of your acres, not every acre qualified. It is extremely complicated.

Paul
Thanks for doing the math, he will appreaciate this info very much.
 
Your friend might not want to invest heavily in soybean farming right now. It might be a break even enterprise at this point. He should ask around to see if there are custom operators around to do his harvesting, rather than investing in a combine, if he decides to go ahead with this.One could also sell the beans at harvest without investing in a grain bin, by just trucking them to the elevator right out of the field. Last year farmers lost all of their export demand for soybeans to our largest foreign buyer due to the trade war. The soy market has not recovered from that.
 
The $30 for Seed and $75 for fertilizer, but I see no $40.00 for chemicals or weed control and $ 40 for fuel planting and harvesting. Inputs run around $185.00 an acre here in Tennessee . Our taxes are lot less that $50.00 and acre and 50 bu average is pretty easy to maintain and selling on contract after storage nets out around $165.00 an acre MOST years and better some. We are very fortunate very rarely do we ever have to bin dry beans. Most time we can get them down to 13% in the field and some years actually get too dry. We run a corn,wheat,beans rotation most years with some milo and sunflower thrown in ever now and then. SO FAR have the best corn harvest going I have ever had in my farming life. Tennessee was blessed this year with rain sometimes three times a day in June and we were also abel to get ours out in early spring.
 
Really a bad time to be thinking of raising beans, even with the government welfare check it's barely profitable, and the
export market might not come back. I just read that 20% of the ethanol was exported, that has stopped, so ethanol plants are
shutting down, corn prices will be falling more.
 
While in theory not a bad idea it may not be all that useable where the subject of this thread is at. Elevators are scarce in many parts of the East/NE. Sometimes what is there is considerably under capacity for the area. Many areas years ago were mainly livestock with very little need to take in any amount of crop. In the last grain boom a few elevators invested in additional infrastructure but many did not choosing to push what resources they had to the limit to maximize profit. Rail cars were the key to keep the elevators running during the harvest season and many times there were not enough cars to keep up with what wanted to come in. A fair amount of railroads were abandoned during the 1970's leaving some agribusinesses without a way to mass ship or bring in product. Also, don't be surprised that you come last being the new guy. If 5,000 bushels of space opens up during the season don't be surprised if the traditional clients get called first to bring their beans in.


Custom combining can work or create headaches. Around here you have the guy who will say yes in April but will park his combine after he does his own work because it was wet, FIL in the hospital, or some other excuse. Then there is the well meaning guy whose combine is in poor condition that can't be relied on or will do a poor job. Then there is the guy who just wants to move in to work the farm and when he hears the the farmer is going to operate another year fails to show up at harvest time. Any prospective custom harvester should have references and do check those references out.
 
(quoted from post at 12:11:37 09/13/19) Thanks for all of the great replies and advice. Seems like alot to consider. Could something like this be adapted as a type of dryer or does the grain have to be spread out?

mvphoto42594.jpg

Married to Allis, as the ad states it is a FEED bin not a drying or storage bin. In order to dry you need a big flat floor with air passage under it for the air to be able to get under the grain and then push up through it carrying the moisture out.
 
Wrong again, 2019 has been another record year for ethanol exports, as has been every year of the current administration. Where do you get your fake news?
 
Don't be so quick on calling it fake news. For one thing, obviously the 2019 numbers aren't all in. But those that are available show a down turn. A simple Google search turned up this data copied and pasted from the website "US Exports of Fuel Ethanol":

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2010 324 519 1,153 973 414 387 603 707 929 834 930 1,717
2011 1,364 1,425 2,003 2,865 1,743 1,604 3,036 1,246 2,525 2,895 3,634 4,117
2012 1,819 1,785 1,992 1,775 1,397 1,410 1,519 1,206 1,191 1,284 965 1,313
2013 1,518 1,017 1,312 967 952 796 830 1,182 1,299 1,206 2,134 1,525
2014 2,091 1,517 2,059 1,659 1,265 1,378 1,599 1,292 1,353 1,949 2,114 1,872
2015 1,640 1,662 2,057 1,761 1,497 1,499 1,716 1,272 1,492 1,792 1,427 1,995
2016 2,297 2,027 2,614 2,922 1,628 1,295 1,955 2,179 2,346 2,946 3,074 2,583
2017 2,844 3,605 3,023 2,115 2,862 2,297 2,822 2,285 2,011 2,488 2,565 4,175
2018 2,104 5,298 5,122 3,866 2,280 3,609 2,487 2,942 2,141 4,178 3,620 3,330
2019 3,048 2,715 3,335 3,578 2,375 3,059
 
We grew soys here in MI for years. Never even thought of owning "drying equipment". I fail to see the point of it. We did store some of the time also...still no drying and no spoilage. If people are drying soys then they are just shooting themselves in the foot.
 
I know my numbers were incomplete, I was getting depressed.... :)

We are suffering our 4th wet year in a row, crops were planted very late. My back yard actually looks fairly good, but frost is near on the calander and the crop has a lot of maturing to do. We will see, little nervous.

Paul
 
That feed bin will hold about 700 bushels. Remember 250 acres of beans could be around 15,000 bushels.

That feed bin would be very hard to adapt to drying. You would want a flat floor, and put a perforated floor across the bottom to blow air through.

Paul
 
https://www.agriculture.com/news/future-of-ethanol-exports


This article states that the market year ended August 31 and that 2019 was another record ethanol exporting year.
 
I'll put my 2 cents in if he has a good hay business I would just stay with that.I make more money on hay then I could ever make on the row crops with input costs.All my hay is usually gone by Christmas most of the time if I could put all my ground in hay I would. Another thing unless there is dependable custom cutter in the area he is going to need a combine.
 

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