Yet another update on the Kubota M6060

Called ther dealer yesterday to get an update on my tractor. Service manager tells me that all 4 of the injectors are bad and she has not heard back on the fuel analysis So I drove over and took my own sample and told her I am gonna send it to a lab if hers comes back. I said, and I probably shouldn't have, I smell a rat in this. You're gonna tell me it was my fuel that caused the problem and gonna try to make me pay for the repairs. All my equipment and my neighbors run fine and they both come out of the same truck, he delivers to him and I at the same time. She said No, she just did it to prove my fuel is good (right). While there I asked the mechanic exactly what can cause this, if the internal of the cylinders was getting too hot due to the lack of air boost from the turbo and he said it wouldn't happen and he doesn't know, they might have been bad from the factory. They haven't gotten the report on what exactly was bad so he don't know. I'm getting a feeling like I've stepped into a big pile of s++t. We'll see I guess
.

Buddy of mine lives in chillicothe Ohio has a fifty horse kubota hydrostatic with 475 hrs on it.the hydrostatic went out of it kubota says it was because he was making hay with it mowing raking baling they say hydrostatic drive tractors aren't designed to pull things is why it went out.cost $12000.00 to repait.kubota knock off $4000 of it.cost him $8000 out of his pocket. Hes going to trade it in on a 70 hp with a regular transmission

While hydrostatic is not designed for that constant load, one call from a good lawyer and that argument would go away. If he did not abuse the tractor warranty cannot be denied. I have seen them come back and tell a guy that the NEXT time he did something the warranty would not apply but to just turn down warranty on the get go is unusual.

Bingo, Jm.

Sounds like there is more to that story that we do not know.

Dean

what?! Tractors aren't to be used to pull things! What are they for?

I was working parts at a Kubota/JD dealer in the mid 1990's ? We were having a lot of the front axle pinions tore up and Kubota was denying the warranties because the tractors had loaders on them. Did you ever run into this ?
We had about an equal number of JD units out there too , but never had one of those with this issue. These were the 20 to 35 hp machines.

Sounds like you're getting the typical dealer run around as they try to weasel out of anything being the fault on their end.

Kubota apparently calls using their tractors like a real tractor abuse(LOL)

I would sue them, unless they state somewhere in the sales contract of their new tractors that ones with hydrostatic transmissions are only to look at and not use.. complete line of bs they are spewing. a tractor that can't pull anything is completely useless.

I agree smells like a 5 day old fish. Sounds to me like this dealership is trying to give you the run around. Even if all 4 injectors were in fact at fault, why haven?t they replaced the injectors, delivered your tractor back to you, and then sort out this mess with the manufacturer? Your dealer doesn?t deserve your business. You are buying goods from him, he is a retail outlet for a manufacturer. While it maybe a manufactures warranty, you have no direct conduit to the manufacturer, he does. Think I would start to shop for a lawyer, and buy some advice.

Thinking about it if the dealer is real scum it may have been too late when you took a fuel sample they may have added something to your fuel tank to make it look like the fuel was the problem.Yea I know I'm a real suspicious Soul but I've seen a lot of crooked things happen.

I was thinking the same thing just doesn't sound right

Makes me furious ever time I read about this Kubota (dealer) issue. Pay that kind of money and get excuses and what if's.

Dad had his brand new 26hp kubota gearbox on the mower deck lock up. The hours were still in the single digits. Dealer said it ran out of oil is why...well no sh!t! I took pics of the deck covered in oil so I would have proof ot had oil. Took 3 months to get a replacement gearbox..apparently they were having issues but still tried to blame it on us not checking oil on a brand new machine. Worse part was they would not lend him something to mow with!

Nonsense, we have a 50 hp Kubota hydrostatic. Pulled the NH 489 mower conditioner in hills, baled 10's of thousand of squares while pulling hay wagon or hay basket, baled round bales. Its still the main tedding and raking tractor on 150 acres. Its got 3000 hours on it now and still the most reliable tractor on the farm. 2002 battery in it and still starts in -30 every time as it feeds most of the round bales all winter. Is it my favourite tractor? No, the cab is too small, seat travel too short and ride is rough in field but everyone else who helps haying loves driving it and that the AC works.

HST needs clean oil is all. If you get water in it, or 50 year old hydro fluid/ dirty rusty sludge from sharing implements with old tractors etc it will wipe the hydro out. Its just a big hydraulic pump and shares common reservoir with the rest of the transmission which is their biggest weakness. Every spec of dirt getting in there is at risk of making one pass through the pump before it's filtered.

Around here you don't see many Kubotas for just that reason. Some of the guys who run them make fun of us for paying for green/red/blue paint, but at the end of the day the service, at least here, is just way better and that's worth a lot of pricey paint.

Hey Bruce, I have and we're waiting to see if that is the case and exactly what happens before we do anything. He says give them a chance to make it right and always record my conversations with them (it may not be admissible, but he can see from that what they are trying first hand). I do like this tractor better than any I own and I have Msasseys, fords and an A.C. Sorry, I just am not a fan of John Deere because they are terribly over priced in this area and the service is no better. I do understand that any dealership whether auto, truck, tractor, lawn mower or refrigerator always figure ther owner had to do something because their product is the best on the market and their mechanics are top notch. So we'll wait till the fuel sample report comes back and see. I don't know what was wrong with the injectors, but I do know there are several reasons they could go "bad". That engine has never had a miss or knock and has good power till it's been running awhile, about a half tank of fuel. Keith

Like I said in an earlier post, I think your dealer started out selling lawn mowers and as Kubota grew and started selling bigger farm tractors, the dealer just sold them and did not train and upgrade his service dept to deal with real farm tractors and their applications.
It does make me wonder why they haven't gotten Kubota factory service involved in this. Bad injectors don't just fix themselves for a while and then go bad again. If that turbo system has a waste gate in it, I would be looking pretty closely at that.--------Loren

Mike in my 28 years with KUBOTA I have NEVER seen a warranty denied in the end. I have had some turned down but after got service rep and dealer area rep involved they always have paid me. Like I said I have had them come back and tell a owner we are going to pay this warranty but next time this happens it will be on you. That was when they suspected the uses was abusing the machine. My experience with warranty and KUBOTA has bee they are a bit better than most manufactures. Had a customer buy a new Mahindra , 6 weeks after he got it discovered a pin hole in the block. Casting flaw, their repair was thread it and put a screw in it. Would not replace the engine.

They have had ther Kubota tech there and he was the one who told them to pull the injectors and send the fuel sample. It was a Massey Ferguson dealer for a lot of years, known as Fairplane tractor sales. The mechanic staff is still there. Parcs is a large dealership with several locations the same as John Deere has done in this area with Bridgeport being ther only J.D. company around, if you want a J.D. you either go to Bridgeport or buy something else. They also sell New Holland tractors and Kubota farm equipment, I have a claim in with the regional Kubota office in Columbus Ohio, so the regional tech is involved. Most all the dealerships in this area sell lawnmowers along with the farm tractors. There isn't enough farms to support a strictly farm store. We don't have any farm that I know of over 200 acres in this area and those will only have maybe 75 acres tillable due to the hilly country.

The first regen related warranty claim (22 hours) on my B3350 was denied by Kubota. Kubota claimed "operator error." It wasn't.

Even after both dealer and I spoke to Kubota regional tech rep, he held his ground.

Dealer then billed me, which, by the way, is neither appropriate nor legal.

I refused to pay, of course, but did bail the dealer out by appealing the claim to Kubota Customer Satisfaction in Grapevine, TX. After a couple of non productive telephone calls to CS, I wrote a very professional and VERY persuasive letter with the claim number. Kubota never answered the letter, by correspondence, telephone or email, but about two weeks later the dealer told me that they had paid the claim.

I did not bill the dealer for my work.

Dean

Wow hydro cant pull anything?
When ihc came out with 656 hydros they were bragging how you could gradually pull lever back as load increased and pull through hard spots easy and quicker than a ta would do

How many of them still pull as intended when up to temperature?

Dean

Sounds like something was lost in translation, intentionally or unintentionally.

Hydrostatic transmissions, Kubota or otherwise, are not ideal for heavy draft loads because they are inefficient. There is no prohibition against using one for such work, but it will use considerably more fuel than will an identical tractor with a gear type transmission.

Dean

My cousin has John Deere 955 and 855 tractors with hydro transmissions,he uses them in his business mostly moving dirt,gravel and anything that comes along where he can't get a larger tractor.They have been worked hard the 855 has almost 6,000 hrs on it and hydro still works fine.I've redone the bucket on the 955 once and the 855 twice.So some WELL BUILT hydros can stand up to hard work.

Rick how many years old was the tractor that the hydro failed in??? If it was out of the original warranty period then they helped some when they would not have had too.

Keith: Your getting upset when you may have zero reason to be. These new motor's fuel systems are much more touchy than the older ones. Your dealer taking a fuel sample is not a bad idea. You taking one is fine too. The one thing you have to realize is the dealership is caught in the middle between you and Kubota. If the dealership just blindly replaces the injectors without Kubota saying that is the trouble the dealership is on the hook for the parts and labor. So give them time to make it right before getting all worked up.

Almost none of the fellow posters on YT have any practical experience on the business side of an agricultural dealership. The majority of fellows think that dealerships makes a killing on everything they sell. So therefore the dealership should blindly warranty anything, give free loaner equipment, haul the warrantied equipment both ways for free and still the customer is not happy. Here is the GODS honest truth. The average ag. dealership makes about 7% profit on the gross revenue the store turns. Parts average around 20-25% profit. The shop labor might make a little money but without the parts sales the shop is a money looser. New equipment sales is the poor step child as far as profits go, usually 3-4% after all expenses. Warranty work is a big cost to most brands. Every store I have worked at, warranty work lost the store money. I did not say possible income I mean directly cost the dealership money. This loss has to come out of the original sales profit.

So back to your tractor. I looked at what the injectors cost on a JD of about the size your tractor is. A new injector is $579 each list, dealer cost is around $460. So that would be $1840 for four. So if your dealer just throws a set in without doing what Kubota says he should, the dealer is on the hook for over $2K when parts and labor are totaled. I do not know how your tractor is equipped, so I assumed Cab and MFWD. So that puts a new one around $50K. So lets say the dealership hit a good profit on your tractor sale and made 10% clear. So we have $5K. This one warranty repair could wipe out almost half that sales profit. Even if Kubota warranties everything. The dealership will lose some money that will come out of the sales profit. Everything the dealership has tried as far as flushing the tank and changing filters would not be warranty items under JDs warranty policy. So the dealership will more than likely not get paid anything for that form the manufacture. I bet you will not like paying for that either. So that leaves the dealership eating the cost on part of this even IF the injectors are 100% covered.

Another thing jm. is a Kubota dealer. His experience with what he can get covered under warranty WILL be different than dealers in other parts of the country. The territory service reps and their bosses make a HUGE difference in what gets paid and what does not. So a dealer in a different territory than jm. will be dealing with different people making the calls. What one territory rep. will pay for can be vastly different than what another will pay. Guess who is caught right square in the crosshairs??? The dealership. The customer thinks it should be a warranty item, heck the dealership may even think it is a warranty item BUTTT the territory rep does not think it is a warranty item. Where's that leave the dealer?? Holding the bag. Yes in theory you can appeal to people above the territory rep to try and get the claim paid. I can guarantee you that if you do that the rest of the time you have that territory rep. your life will be hell when it involves him/her.

So give them some time. If the dealership has been in business as long as it sounds but just with different lines, They could not be screwing up too bad and still have customers.

Thanks JD, I am hoping for the best, but I can't stand 4 or 6 thousand after paying over 3 thousand for the extended warranty either. The tractor has less than 300 hours on it . I somehow still believe its the turbo or computer that has caused the problem. The problem is- the first thing anyone in business, either selling or fixing, is learn to listen and understand what you're being told. Sometimes listening can lead to the cause instead of just repeating what had all ready been done and charging for it and then saying they could find nothing wrong so use it. I've had it for nearly 2 years and have never complained about anything because I had no reason to, it's ran great. I know they make either nothing or nest to it on warranty work, but the warranty is a good part of why I bought it and why I bought the extended warranty at a little over 3 thousand. If it were no good, why spend the extra money. I will wait for their decision because I have no choice but too, but I can see absolutely no reason for the injectors to be bad on my part. It has never been pulled hard, mowing with a 61/2' drum mower and baling with a 4x4 round baler is the hardest work it's ever seen. The filters were changed at 50 hours as per the book and it says not to let it idle very much so that's the way I operate it.

Keith,
Couple questions to satisfy my curiosity, if you will

Is that a common rail engine?

Does it have spin on fuel filters or the element/cartridge type?

If it has a spin on fuel filter, and it is a common rail engine, do the center hole in the fuel filters come plugged with a plastic cap when New?

Ross

I think the warrenty depends on the dealer standing behind their product. I know from talking to you in the past you have a great dealership. I had a warrenty issue with the smaller tractor I bought in 2015. It was out od wanrreny by 2 months and Kubota told me is so many words that it was my problem. To fix it right the trac has to be split to replace a seal. I explained to them that this tractor has less than 400 hours on it should not be leaking. After a go around with the service manger and salesman that ended that. I have the gear drive so I am getting it fixed on my dollar else where. After talking to a local farmer here that has 4 of the bigger Kubota's I found out that the dealer I went thru had less than a steller reputation. If I was to buy another trac I don't think it would be a Kubota. I am almost afraid what else will happen in the future

So you have given him the dealer sob story,his problem is he paid for the warranty and he needs his tractor fixed right not a bunch of B-S on how tough it is to be a dealer.If I was in his
position and paid that much for a new tractor and the warranty they'd fix my tractor or I'd have them in court so fast it'd make their head swim.I'd bet the day they had the warrant served
they'd wise up real quick on what the problem is and yea they wouldn't want to deal with me again but you think I'd want to deal with them?

I see the JD's have a Sunstrand Series 17 hydrostatic, where is that made? It has a Yanmar engine same as our 4600, and it's been flawless, but we have a 12-12 reverser transmision.

Keith I wish I could have talked to you before you bought the expended warranty. They are a terrible buy on agriculture equipment. The only time I ever sold extended warranties was on three year lease tractors. At that time the factory warranty covered the power train for two years. Adding the third year of power train warranty, to match the lease did not cost much. Extending the full warranty did cost a lot of money. It rarely paid.

Is your tractor under the original warranty or the extended warranty??? The reason I am asking this is when I was still selling new iron, 14 years ago, the extended warranty had a different claims process than the original warranty. The warranty was advertised to just be an extension of the original factory warranty but in the mechanics of the dealership getting paid for the extended warranty work was totally different. The extended warranty was handled more like an vehicle damage claim. So if your into the extended warranty it may just take longer for things to get approved for repair.

Traditional Farmer: I would bet that you have bought very little equipment new???? As near as I can tell no one has told him that he is going to have to pay for anything at this point in this warranty issue. Also I can tell you a fact of life when dealing with people. IF you cop an attitude with someone that person is much less likely to work very hard to resolve anything in a very timely manner. Just a simple FACT. Threatening to sue them really would slow things to a crawl. Because then they have to make darn sure everything is documented top to bottom at the dealership and the manufacture. Popping an attitude with a Company man is death to you having very good results. Talk law suit and your claim/case gets passed on to the legal department rather than service. The manufacture is then motivated to due the minimum as the warranty is written rather than the maximum.

Kubota has a good reputation on warranty. On something like this that has been hard to find it makes warranty ten time harder for everyone. If the darn thing just would totally die then it would be easy to repair. The mechanics of how a warranty problem is handled has different levels. So on one like this it needs to go up the ladder to the fellows that deal with the "Unusual" stuff daily. This is often at the factory level. They will asked for a lot more information than would be on a regular warranty issue. This often includes fuel, oil, coolant samples. These guys are usually very motivated to "HELP" the customer. There are few manufactures with a good warranty reputation, that are out to pass the buck or duck the cost if the problem is really theirs. They want this fixed just as bad as he does. I know in JDs case they would often pay after the warranty was out if it was a real manufacturing issue. Usually not the entire bill but usually more than half.

We have a different take on what his dealership is doing,I think they are dragging their feet hoping he'll just say "What the heck it ain't worth the hassle,I'll live with it".
Experiences like his I've known about is one reason I don't buy new a guarantee/warranty is only as good as the person/company passing it out like a lot of insurance companies
everything is coming up roses until you start to cost them some money.Meanwhile the tractor owner has a $50K boat anchor until things slowly work their way thru the system.Anyway I'll be interested to see how it all turns out.

My gator died while my daughter was running me to the field and she had to walk the rest of the way home. I called deere the next day and they said with all the mowers in the shop it would be a few weeks till they could get it in, by the time they got it in the warranty was expired. ( it was not the day I called!) Ended up the motor and come apart. I guess they had some bad head gaskets that would burn the oil and cause the motor to lock up. Even though it was in the serial number range with bad gaskets and me calling before the warranty expired I still had to pay because it was past warranty date when they filed the claim. I bought a new Polaris soon after that!

JD, It's still under ther original warranty with less than 2 years on tractor and less than 300 hours.

Wonder if your State has a lemon law that would apply to tractors ? Some have them on cars. Something like if they can't fix it in 3 attempts they have to buy it back ?

I have been following your issue with great interest. Having been a truck mechanic and worked on common rail fuel systems, I will be surprised if it is the injectors, unless it is a design problem/failure. I saw that one time back in the '90s with Cummins' first electronic injectors. BUT-you never had a miss, just a gradual lack of power. I still stand by what I said in my earlier reply-test drive with a diagnostic computer, observe/record all parameters before and after problem occurs. Something will be different.
In response to others about Kubotas-our local Ford then New Holland dealer dropped New Holland because of warranty problems, and switched to Kubota, and reportedly has hardly any problems. Mark.

Yea I don't know about the numbers,both these tractors are Yanmars and have been great machines.

All 4 injectors are bad, the fuel tested good so the company authorized new ones then will put on computer to find the real problem with it when they come in. In talking with ther service manager today, she is also leaning toward the wastegate, sensor, or computer being the problem I believe some folks have taken my posts in the wrong manner. This tractor is super, it's not nor has it been a lemon at all. We just get frustrated when we have hay to get put up and it's taken so long (to me anyway) and people do not want to hear what I am saying, maybe I just don't say things as they should be said. It is just as J.D. seller said, everything they do has to be proven and ok'd by the company or they do not get paid. And having worked on cars and trucks back in the 80s, I too realize there is virtually no profit in warranty repairs. but at the same time customer satisfaction is still the biggest advertisement anyone can have. I still will take my tractor back to them in the future and will still question why and how much and who is gonna pay. I'm retired and not a big farmer at all.

Glad they are at least getting to the problem,all injectors bad with only 300 hrs something ain't right.Seems to me they could have put the tractor on a dyno right off the bat and
found out about the injectors or do they put these newer tractors on dynos?

Keith: These new tractors are NOT fun to work on. Those injectors being bad, can cause all sorts of issues with the other engine systems. The problems today are more computer/sensor systems failing or partially failing. You hope for a total failure as those are easier to find.

An example we had on our JD 8330. One of the injectors was not misfiring but had a terrible pattern. So that cylinder was not burning all the fuel. So the system was seeing raw/unburnt fuel and reducing the fuel delivery to the entire engine. The result was low power without any codes. Several computer scans never showed any issue other than the fuel consumption being lower than normal. After fooling with it for a whole spring we just pulled all the injectors and had them checked. two were bad. The injectors had under 1000 hours on them.

One big problem with the agriculture equipment today is there are not enough NUMBERS of any unit to have near the data that you can easily find on your car/truck. Common cars can easily have 50-100 thousand units built each year. So there are lots of problems that show up across more units so you have shared knowledge on some really odd ball failures. Even a really popular tractor would not have more than 5000 units a year. So you do not have close to as much data. Also few bootleg fixes/programs because of the much smaller market.