New to forum and have my first question

Hey yall how's everyone. Let me introduce myself to everyone, my name is Mike and I'm 19 years old, have had a love for old tractors since I was a little kid and finally got my first tractor(back in November), a 1957 farmall cub, well I've always heard about how these old generators wernt the greatest at charging :| and me and my dad just today got the ol cub converted to 12volts and re wired it like the diagram said. We went to crank it as a test(gas tank and grille was still off) and it barely made a full cycle and popped a couple of little sparks out of the little starter and the starter wouldn't turn anymore after that, we kept pulling the starter lever and it was clicking like it had a dead battery, we are getting 12 volts to the starter even though it wont turn. It's the original Delco Remy starter and could the 12 volts cooked the starter or the starter solenoid or could it just of died on that last turn? Thanks for the help and advice, Mike

It's possible you may have cooked it, but first I'd recheck all your battery cable connections. Make sure they're all clean and tight. If your starter has the mechanical switch, pull that and check it too. Those have been known to fail.

It was probably on it's last leg. Try tapping it with a hammer, when you engage it. If that makes it work, it's probably the brushes. If
not, rebuild , or replacement time. A 6 volt starter will handle 12 volts pretty well, if you don't crank them too long.

Hey thanks guys, but I'm thinking about just getting a 12v starter now just to level it out. But I have to check the lever this Thursday, ain't off of work till Thursday and Friday. But I really thank yall for the help

If a Cub will not turn over on 6v better check why. So instead of fixing the problem you went to 12v and now you get to fix the original problem. Do not throw new parts until you have found the problem unless you have lots of money.

Starter was already on its last legs most likely,starts with bad bushings and then the parts start to wear internally.Another starter or maybe yours can be rebuilt which will
probably cost as much or more than a new one.Check ebay for a starter.

Welcome to Yesterday's Tractors and glad to have you!

> I'm thinking about just getting a 12v starter now just to level it out.

No need to do that; just fix your current starter.

Mike,
YT sells parts. Not sure this starter will fit your cub.
There are different opinions on YT about using 6v starters on 12 volts. Some people
will tell you they haven't had a problem with them. Perhaps if your engine has low
compression you may never have a problem. My engines were rebuilt and have good
compression. My starter drives were damaged in winter when oil was cold and cranking
is more difficult.

I had to buy a 12v starter from YT for my Ford Jubilee after the starter drive sheared of
and chipped a tooth off the flywheel.

I couldn't buy a 12 v starter for my Farmall C and 12v would shear off starter
drives on that tractor too.

So my fix was to replace battery cables with 12g copper wires and use an old 12v
lawn mower battery. For me, that works great because my tractor came with a mag and
it was designed to be hand cranked. So cranking speed isn't important.

If your cub has a coil instead of a mag, you'll have to figure out how to by-pass
ballast when starting to get a hot spark if you go with a small battery.

The electrical on old tractors isn't rocket science. You'll need to learn how to use
a voltmeter and do some trouble shooting. I grew up with these old tractors. My cars
as a teenager used the same technology, points, condensers, coils, voltage
regulators. Which needed replaced often.

Like I said, there will be different opinions on using 12v on a 6v starter. There
are good people here with good advice. Keep asking questions and you'll figure it
out.
YT

Welcome Mike, here are my thoughts on your question.

1) IF ??????? it has a saddle mount onto starter mechanical push down to start switch, I have seen many of those switches go bad (IE Starter itself may be fine) due to burned pitted corroded contacts OR the copper starter contact post under that switch is burned and pitted. It's easy to remove that switch (disconnect battery first, remove the two small switch mounting screws) look underneath for a burned pitted post on the starter or the switch contacts are all burned and pitted. CHECK THE SWITCH FIRST !!!!!!!!!!!!!

2) To be safe, I would remove, clean and wire brush and re attach EACH AND EVERY battery and ground and starter switch connections. Insure the ground cable is attached to clean shiny metal NOT rusty thin sheet metal.

3) Insure the battery is good and fully charged.

4) A 6 volt starter can work on 12 volts okay just avoid longgggggggggg cranking times.

5) If all the cables and grounds and connections are good and the switch is good ???? and its a good full charged battery IT TAKES AN AWFUL BADDDDDDDDDDDD 6 volt starter motor that will not crank at all under 12 volts.

Sure the old starter may be bad (worn down brushes or bad bushings or bad or shorted armature etc) but I would FIRST check the starter switch and cables and connections and grounds...?..

John T

Hey , Rusty ol farmall, where are
you from? I see you used "y'all"
in your post! Maybe from the
south? Our 16 year old son has a
'50 cub with a belly mower. Uses
it all the time. Kevin in Central
AL.

Welcome Mike!

Like others said, the starter was probably ready to quit, the 12v just finished it off.

But as a final test, put your volt meter or test light directly to the starter stud (not the cable, but the end of the stud going into the starter) and a bare metal spot on the starter case itself (not the engine or chassis, but directly to the starter case), try the starter while taking a reading.

If you have battery voltage, and the starter is not doing anything, the starter is open internally, possibly just brushes worn or dirty.

If you have "some" voltage, and the cables are heating up, and the starter is heating up, could be the drive is jammed in the flywheel. Try loosening the mount bolts, let the drive gear relax and get into mesh with the flywheel. If that gets it going, the starter may need new bushings and/or a drive gear.

If you have very low voltage, and nothing is happening, you have a bad connection or bad/discharged battery.

Just be extremely careful! Be absolutely sure the tractor is in neutral and stay clear of moving parts! It could begin cranking at any time during the test!

PS: As for running a 6v starter on 12v, some models handle it better than others, just depends on the design of the starter. As said, avoid long cranking intervals. If it doesn't start right up, something is wrong. Stop cranking and find out what the problem is.

Also be very observant and deliberate with your starting procedure. Always have everything ready before hitting the start switch. Once you engage the starter, keep it engaged until the engine starts. It's the initial engagement that causes the most stress.

And finally, watch and listen to the engine and starter. If you let off the starter, be sure the engine has stopped completely, and the starter has coasted to a stop before trying again. Engaging the starter while the engine is rebounding off a compression stroke is a sure way to break something! Be sure the ignition timing is set correctly. Timing advanced too far causes the engine to kick back against the starter, not good.

Hey thanks yall for the possible problems and suggestions. And to grandpa love, I live in florida (whole family lives in the south, florida, Georgia, North Carolina, virginia, kentucky). And thank you for the welcomes to the forums, it's always good to have people to make you feel welcomed and part of the group. But anyhow, I'm seeing most of yall are saying the brushes are probably worn or dirty, a few saying the starter Is cooked, but before I buy another one I'm going to investigate it and get into the brushes and see what's goin on. Possibly send it to a rebuild shop and have it tested and/or rebuilt. But I only got it for $700 and so I expected some things to be ready to pass away. But hey it's really fun working on these ol tractors and good to have someone my age trying to preserve our rural/agricultural history. But this is off the topic question but I've been wanting to ask. So, I already plan on getting a few more into the herd (an M, H, john deere a,b,mt, Oliver's and many others, and hopefully some old diesel tractors like a Sheppard which is on my bucket list to own one day. I don't know about yall, but I actually love the originality of that ol generator, it's different and a thing if the past any before my time. Is there a way to convert a generator to 12v? I'm only going to have this on the rarer tractors. Thanks yall and have a great day, Mike

Nineteen year olds don't have "Bucket Lists". Old guys my age (79) have them. Anything you write down is a "bucket list" lol

Well I guess it's the old soul that I have, but you gotta love them Sheppard diesels and old Oliver's, farmalls, john deere, allis chalmers and ford 8)

If you want to keep it original, by all means do so!

The generator can be rebuilt no problem, it may even work if properly wired and a new regulator.

The regulator is the problem. The new ones are all aftermarket, not the same quality at the original.

But it can be made to work. It will take some homework, research the theory, figure it out and learn it.

There are several articles on this site under "Articles" on the left.

If you are trying to stay original, will be more of a hobby than a needed work tractor, then original is the way to go!

Keeping it 6 volt will require that everything be right. It will need size 0 battery cables, a well tuned engine, and everything ready for a quick start. With everything in place it will start quite well on 6v.

Buy a shop manual, they are not expensive. Immerse yourself in it, get into the mind of the engineers that designed it.

You will be amazed at what they did back then! Remember everything was designed to be simple and field serviceable, quite the opposite of todays "at the mercy of the dealer" planned obsolesce mindset.

Hey thanks Steve, I just learned a heap from you and the generators, honestly, I eventually plan to try and work all my tractors(from my current cub to future ones) but I just thought there has to be a way to convert the generator to 12 volts. I really love the look of that generator. But I can probably only get one more antique tractor to my collection until I get my own home with tons of acreage. Bad news is that it's hard to decide between them, they are all neat in there own ways, I really would like to have a ol oliver 77 or 88 with that giant inline 6 gas engine, talking about a really neat tractor, but it's only the voltage regular that's a flop on the generators?

Well, the regulator is a problem. Some say there are good ones out there, but...

Generators are old school technology, they do require more maintenance than an alternator, not many people left that truly understand them, don't put out as much, and need to be operated at a higher RPM to get the most output.

You could probably find a 12v generator that would fit. 12 v batteries are cheaper and more interchangeable with other equipment, the 6v batteries are pretty short lived too.

But then, going with 12v, you are back to slamming the starter, so it's a trade off.

12 volt generators are available. They were running tractors on 12 volts long before alternators were invented. So you should be able to locate one.

Also, as mentioned, get all the manuals--owner's manual, parts book, and shop manual if available. Lots of good info there. Reproductions are available, or there are dealers who specialize in originals. There are also usually a ton of them on Ebay.

Hey thanks rich, this generator stuff is for my future other antique tractors in the future(some will be converted to 12 volts with alternator , some kept with generator) but back to business, I'm going to get brushes for my starter and play with it and see if that solves the problem. Before getting another one

This is semi-on topic. i have Ford 860 with what I believe is the original 6V generator. When I acquired it, it wouldn't charge at all. Figuring I had nothing to lose, I removed and disassembled the generator. I found two worn brushes, a broken brush spring, and a worn commutator. I undercut the mica on the commutator, replaced the brushes and broken spring. The old dog charges like a champ now.

As so many on this forum have stated before, troubleshoot then replace parts.

I'm not sure there's a 12v starter for
Farmall. There wasn't one for my Farmall
C.