- Thread starter Geo-TH,In
- Start date
I very much disagree with the mentality that " speed kills". If speed automatically equals crash and die: we would have no NHRA or nascar. Would not need to have a police retirement system either since officers regularly exceed the speed limits. High speed will increase the possibility of injuries but there must be another factor also involved to cause a crash.
john in la
Well-known Member
I would think very few accidents are caused by slow drivers.
It is the driver (even if he is driving the speed limit) that is driving faster than his line of sight that is the problem.
I see it often.
I am at a dead stop at a stop sign.
Because of my length I need to take up part of your lane to turn.
You approach from side and want to turn on street I am on.
Rather than let me out you try to turn past your line of sight assuming you have a clear lane and the right of way.
Problem is once you turn you realize you have no place to go.
OR...
I am in a tractor pulling a implement that sticks into your lane.
You come over a hill driving past your line of sight and hit me.
Is that my fault or yours for assuming the road ahead is clear.
It is the driver (even if he is driving the speed limit) that is driving faster than his line of sight that is the problem.
I see it often.
I am at a dead stop at a stop sign.
Because of my length I need to take up part of your lane to turn.
You approach from side and want to turn on street I am on.
Rather than let me out you try to turn past your line of sight assuming you have a clear lane and the right of way.
Problem is once you turn you realize you have no place to go.
OR...
I am in a tractor pulling a implement that sticks into your lane.
You come over a hill driving past your line of sight and hit me.
Is that my fault or yours for assuming the road ahead is clear.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Shoot now days it seem that if you do not speed you will get run over. In town the limit is 30MPH but most drive 35-40 and that includes to town and county cops. Out on the Hwy. where it is say 70MPH if one does not drive at least 75 you get pasted so many times it is not funny. Last time I drove to Columbia MO I was doing 80MPH just to go with the flow of traffic
Crazy Horse
Well-known Member
George ..... not sure that anyone ever said that speed is the only factor or that speed = crash and die, it's one of several things that contribute though. Your comments about NASCAR and police retirement though is worth a laugh or two, you're joking of course.
AHHH you should do a little research. I remember back in the late 60's and early 70's when folks did try to get the government to shut racing in the US down because of the number of drivers dying on the track. Why did they die? Because the safety equipment of the day did not protect the driver in a HIGH SPEED CRASH. Today's safety equipment on the race track makes a fatal wreck almost unheard of. You are not in a full crash cage with a 5 point harness and helmet on the highway.
So lets attack this this way.
The higher the speed of the vehicle/s involved in a wreck the greater chance of serious injury or death. Can't argue that. It's been proven time and again. Even just a human that's true. A human crawling bumps into something the get a little bump. Walking into something can result in a bloody nose. Run into something and now you have a broken nose, split skin and a concussion. Fall off something where your body achieves speeds in excess of 80-90 MPH or faster and you die. Same thing applies in a car accident. Bump into someone at 2-3 miles an hour and the only thing injured is your image. Get into something at 10-30 driving a modern vehicle with airbags and wearing a seat belt? Most likely bumps and bruises. Maybe a some neck. Get much faster than that and you start seeing broken bones and internal injuries. Hit something at 60-70, head on? May or may not live to tell about it.
They did a crash test on a popular sedan, mid sized, full head on, not partial, at 120 MPH. The determination was that even with seat belts and airbags it would not be a survivable accident even by back seat passengers.
Now because of the American and European Insurance companies they have come up with way for cops and the insurance company to determine vehicles speeds by skid marks, damage to the vehicle and such. Plus some vehicles have an EDR (mandatory sense 2014). Event data recorder. In the event of a serious injury or fatal accident the cops can and do get a search warrant and look at the data. So they can tell, even while they are planting your body if you were speeding and that was a contributing factor in an accident. Heck lets say you were doing 55 in a 55 on icy roads. By definition that's speeding because you were going "to fast for conditions".
So yea, the cops can say speed kills. That doesn't mean a person was speeding. But you have an accident at 70 on the interstate you have a much greater chance of dying than say a 5 MPH touched bumpers in the the parking lot accident barring "road rage".
Rick
37chief
Well-known Member
- Location
- California
I see that all the time. Most cars going 70-75, here's Mr, right going 55-60, in 1, and 2 lanes of a full five lane highway, cars, and trucks going around him, or her. Stan
i believe the biggest cause is 2, people doing something other than driving while behind the wheel, ie cell phones, shaving, makeup ect, and people who cant drive period, they were taught how to pass the test, not how to drive the car or truck, even big trucks, a friend of mine a career long haul driver, told me a couple of months ago he had just found a slot in a truckstop to park, and shut down, he was tired and just wanted to crawl in the sleeper and sleep, a banging on the cab door soon after got him, up thinking the usual lot lizard annoying drivers,he was surprised to find a middle eastern gent of about early 20's decked out in shorts and sandals , he wanted help in unhooking the semi trailer, he had supposedly been to a cdl mill,but nobody had ever taught him how to hook and unhook the trailers ! as another driver that's kind of basic, but like my friend said there are a bunch of these guys out there
fixerupper
Well-known Member
I believe the stats. All the stats mention is speed without mentioning contributing factors. So the faster a distracted driver drives, the more likely he or she will be killed. Distracted driving was the reason the driver made the fatal mistake at speed but speeding is listed as the only cause.
jon f mn
Well-known Member
The reason the statistics say speed is such a factor is because most all accidents are blamed on excessive speed. That means if you slide in the ditch on ice in the winter at 10 mph that is a speeding related accident. Very few accidents happen at high speeds. If someone is going even one mph over the limit it's speeding related and then add all the one that are under the limit but too fast for conditions and the number gets high quick. Then it gets in the news and many wrongly assume it's high speed that is the issue.
rusty6
Well-known Member
- Location
- East central Sask.
Driver inattention and distraction combined with high speed certainly will increase the probability o an accident. Your stopping distance at 70 is a lot longer than at 50. Also the driver's reaction time is a factor. At 50 mph your brain has more time to react, brake or take evasive action when an obstacle shows up ahead. I'll be one of those slow moving guys driving the speed limit that others will complain about.
timcasbolt
Well-known Member
If they're going to enforce cell phone laws, they need to start with the cops. Those guys have at least two phones, a two-way, and a laptop all going at once. Our county motorpool parking lot is filled with wrecked patrol cars waiting for body work.
John, saying speed was a factor in a fatal crash isn't saying that someone was speeding. You crash head on with both vehicles do 5 MPH and no one is going to die. Crash the same to vehicles head on with both doing 50 and someone could well die. At 5 they wouldn't have died. So even if they were on a 55 MPH road speed was a factor. Other factors then need to be addressed. Were they distracted? Not to hard for the cops to get cell phone activity. Just because the phone in question was not involved in a call or active texting doesn't mean that the driver didn't get a text and glance at the phone to see who it was from. But factually every wreck has one common thing. Speed. Now that's different from saying the the major contributing factor to that accident was speed. Don't really see many wrecks where the cops claim the accident was cause by speed alone. Often it's listed as a contributing factor. Has a semi cross the center line about 2 miles from my drive. Hit a car head on. 16 year old kid one his way to school died. A semi hitting a car with both vehicles doing close to 60 MPH? The accident was cause by the truck driver falling asleep behind the wheel. But you can say speed was a factor too. Had they both been doing 20 most likely no one would have died. Had another just west of Battle Lake. Young woman went to pass a semi and hit another head on. Truck was doing about 60. The driver she tried to pass claims he was doing right at 60. She was in a rush to get to college classes. Major contributing factor was her decisions. Yes speed was a factor.
Rick
Not really the cops fault. Why are there not 2 officers in that car? One to drive and the other to communicate? MONEY! Our politicians would rather force the cops into a situation where the public and the officers are at risk than to curb wasteful spending. They have to have X number of units patrolling to have enough presence. Hiring extra officers so that the cop driving isn't distracted? not going to happen. But they will spend money on stuff the city, county or state doesn't need in a heartbeat.
Rick
Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
Hey George,
Slower traffic keep right.
If you stay in the right lane you'll be okay.
Slower traffic keep right.
If you stay in the right lane you'll be okay.
There?s going to be more people than the world can feed especially when we outlaw conventional farming so let em speed they are not dying as fast as they?re being hatched.
The gas station meter doesn t even go this fast
The gas station meter doesn t even go this fast
Stephen Newell
Well-known Member
I don't think it's that simple. Yes some people speed but I think the problem is more that people are in their own little world not paying attention to what everyone else is doing. Then you have people that keep 10 car lengths between them and the car in front of them and when traffic slows they slam on the brakes as hard as they can. Then the person behind them is deemed to be speeding because someone stopped suddenly for no reason and they couldn't react quick enough.
Just because there are a bunch of cop cars wrecked, it doesn't mean it's the cops fault. I have been hit FOUR times driving an ambulance with lights and sirens on, once from behind while stopped waiting to make a turn. There's a reason we block so many lanes or shut down a road.
And some of us are actually capable of multitasking.
And some of us are actually capable of multitasking.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
Speeding is not a "cause". It is a FACTOR. Exceeding the speed limit in itself will not directly cause an accident. (If it did, most of us would crash every day.) Drunk driving and distracted driving are also factors. An example of a "cause" would be turning left in front of an oncoming vehicle. And in that example, speeding (by the oncoming vehicle) could well be a factor. And if you add up all the factors that contribute to all of the accidents, the percentage will be far greater than 100 percent, because most accidents involve multiple factors.
Accident investigators don't consider just the proximate cause of a crash. They look at the entire chain of events that led to the crash and consequent injuries or deaths. For example, was the weather bad? Was the driver in a hurry to get to his destination? Was the sun in the driver's eyes? Were all the vehicle occupants buckled in? These could all be contributing factors.
Accident investigators don't consider just the proximate cause of a crash. They look at the entire chain of events that led to the crash and consequent injuries or deaths. For example, was the weather bad? Was the driver in a hurry to get to his destination? Was the sun in the driver's eyes? Were all the vehicle occupants buckled in? These could all be contributing factors.
What a crock. American farmers only produce about 45% of the worlds food and there are millions of former farm land in the US that is idle and has been sense the 80's. So when they outlaw CHEMICAL farming (not conventional) and you have to cultivate corn and beans your production isn't going to drop enough to matter. Feeding the world gets to be that much of a problem they can always outlaw "renewable fuels" and the land used to grow said renewable fuel crops can revert to growing edible foods.
Heck, go back in time a little. Long before chemical faring even started. The American farmer grew enough food to feed us, England and most of post war Europe. That was back when the American farmer produced about 70% of the worlds food. Now they produce 45% on way less land.
Rick
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Mr Righteous putt putt traveling slower than the bulk of the traffic causes wrecks due to to extra lane changes , extra braking session and extra merging manoeuvres .
Stay in the right hand lane if you want to putter along. Better yet take the back roads .
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Traveling at the speed limit will still causes wrecks by disturbing the flow of faster traffic . Doesn t matter if you like it or not or if the speed limit was exceeded or not .
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Traveling at the speed limit will still causes wrecks by disturbing the flow of faster traffic . Doesn t matter if you like it or not or if the speed limit was exceeded or not .
My take, having investigated thousands of car accidents- Yes, speeding probably IS the ultimate factor involved in those deaths. But there are probably 2 or 3 other factors in the mix also. A person traveling at 70/55 (speeding) while texting, not wearing a seatbelt, after having a drink or 3 on bald tires in a car with bad brakes.They hit something not because they were speeding, but it's the speed that is the actual cause of death.
You have to learn to read beyond the headlines when it comes to stuff like this.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
That isn't even what I am talking about and you know it.
Mr Righteous Putt Putt traveling at the limit in the left lane is forcing drivers to make two lane changes and two merges . Accidents do not occur when traffic is flowing smoothly without interruption. Wrecks occur while drivers are speeding up, slowing down and making lane changes.
If you are blocking traffic get into the right hand lane or take the back two lane roads .
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Causing a wreck by causing dozens of unneeded lane changes and merging per mile . That is what causes collisions .
Yup, and I can give you the 2 main reasons he's doing that. #1 is because he's been told he has to be someplace in 30 minutes that takes 45 minutes or an hour to get to. If he uses lights and siren, people complain he's using lights and siren but only going 10mph over the limit...which is the speed everyone else normally drives at. If he doesn't, he's got you complaining because he's not! #2- If the cop drives 55, no one will pass him and then people complain that he's blocking traffic! I did this one time down around Albany NY shortly after our Superintendent got filmed driving like everyone else on I87 at 70-75mph. The word came down that we were to drive with that in mind. I had to go the Academy, so when I got outside Albany I drove the speed limit which was 55mph at the time. After a while I passed another Trooper in a cross over and he radioed me and asked what I was doing. I told him I was driving 55 like the Super said to. He said, "You have like 800 cars backed up behind you!" That is what happens and that's why "the cops" end up not driving 55!
That's NOT what you said. Nowhere did you mention traveling in the left lane at the speed limit, so there's no way for anyone to assume that's what you were talking about.
Regardless, if you're so impatient that you end up in a wreck because someone is going the speed limit in any lane, it's still your fault if you're speeding.
Just did some traveling on the interstate and was constantly passed on the right on 6-8 lane highways going 5+ over.
There is an abundance of people on the roads that have NO clue as to what the laws are, proper driving etiquette, or common sense, and people going the speed limit usually aren't the problem.
Regardless, if you're so impatient that you end up in a wreck because someone is going the speed limit in any lane, it's still your fault if you're speeding.
Just did some traveling on the interstate and was constantly passed on the right on 6-8 lane highways going 5+ over.
There is an abundance of people on the roads that have NO clue as to what the laws are, proper driving etiquette, or common sense, and people going the speed limit usually aren't the problem.
showcrop
Well-known Member
If everyone simply did the right thing there would be far fewer problems and traffic would flow faster. Keep right except to pass. Unfortunately this takes drivers. Many people occupying cars prefer to just get in their favorite lane and just sit there and back off when they need to. A smaller number are simply scared to change lanes. Once a week I spend an hour or so on a four lane, (each side) highway. The fastest lane is the right. The two middle are slowest. Left lane goes at a moderate speed.
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