- Thread starter big tee
- Start date
jimg.allentown
Well-known Member
Did you ever drive one of those? Talk about beating up a driver! You had to wear the seat belt just to stay in the seat. Roughest riding truck I ever drove. I think that Freightliner cab overs were designed by an engineer whose wife ran off with a truck driver!
johnofnewhaven
Well-known Member
They are a wanted collector's item. I know several truck dealers that have them. Not really used to haul freight anymore but you do have some owner operators that still use them. Just nostalgia I guess. I am always shocked what the value of the right ones will bring. You will see them at truck shows all decked out. I guess it is about the same as how some people look at us tractor nuts.
timcasbolt
Well-known Member
I just googled that engine (because I know nothing about Cat engines), and that alone would keep me away from that truck. According to itstillruns.com the head needs to come off every 100,000 miles or 2000 hours. Gotta be the dumbest thing I ever heard.
104"cab,looks to be around 250" wheelbase,3406 very desirable truck.Cabovers are coming back thus prices are coming up.And no you do not have to pull the head every 100,000,more like closer to a million when doing a rebuild.Unless you got it hot and cracked it.That's what I have seen in the last 40+ years of being around them.
I've seen a few cabovers hauling grain into the Ohio River Terminal in Aurora, IN.
Most appear to be farmer or OO owned and hauling from within 150 miles or so.
My guess is that trucking industry lobbyists are lobbying for longer trailers as we speak. If they are successful without any increase in overall length, old cabovers will skyrocket in value, as new ones will be extraordinarily expensive and unreliable.
Got one? Might want to consider holding on to it.
Dean
Most appear to be farmer or OO owned and hauling from within 150 miles or so.
My guess is that trucking industry lobbyists are lobbying for longer trailers as we speak. If they are successful without any increase in overall length, old cabovers will skyrocket in value, as new ones will be extraordinarily expensive and unreliable.
Got one? Might want to consider holding on to it.
Dean
Crazy Horse
Well-known Member
Looks like Freightliner still makes their COE design here in North America, their "Argosy", but since 2012 as "glider" models (no engine or tranny installed) ...... assuming that I am reading this link info correctly. All sales go to other countries in Europe, Asian, Australia etc where a donor truck powertrain is installed ..... usually from an older donor truck that has been taken off the road. And as someone has mentioned, they can haul longer trailers and hence, more load inside. From TV shows I see on any topic, most big trucks on European roads are COE designs.
Freightliner Argosy COE trucks ..
Freightliner Argosy COE trucks ..
Hahaha. Funny post especially the last part. You need to
google better or talk to people/farmers/mechanics to get your
info because the 3406 is one of the best engines ever built.
And that thing about needing to take the head off every
100,000 miles/2,000 hrs is complete BS. I can?t even find that
part on the bogus website you found. Got an 89? KW with
over a million miles and a Steiger with over 6,000 hrs both
with 3406s and neither has had the head off.
google better or talk to people/farmers/mechanics to get your
info because the 3406 is one of the best engines ever built.
And that thing about needing to take the head off every
100,000 miles/2,000 hrs is complete BS. I can?t even find that
part on the bogus website you found. Got an 89? KW with
over a million miles and a Steiger with over 6,000 hrs both
with 3406s and neither has had the head off.
john in la
Well-known Member
Under current federal laws there is NO overall length limit on the federal highway system.
It was when this law was enacted years ago that cab overs went out of style and double trailers came into style.
The one thing that keeps trailer length in check is the width of the road with doglegging of the trailer in curves.
Also one reason lobbyist are pushing for triples. They dogleg of triples and a 53 foot single trailer are very similar.
It could be the buyer of this cabover only bought it for the motor and transmission with attached title.
A new glider kit and this old cabover gives you a new truck that flies under the EPA radar.
It was when this law was enacted years ago that cab overs went out of style and double trailers came into style.
The one thing that keeps trailer length in check is the width of the road with doglegging of the trailer in curves.
Also one reason lobbyist are pushing for triples. They dogleg of triples and a 53 foot single trailer are very similar.
It could be the buyer of this cabover only bought it for the motor and transmission with attached title.
A new glider kit and this old cabover gives you a new truck that flies under the EPA radar.
Interesting, John.
Could it be that state regulations limit overall length?
Once upon a time, tractor trailer regulations were much different from state to state but lobbyists have been able to remove many (most, all?) of the differences.
Regarding gliders: So far the 30 something bureaucrats sitting in cubes in DC have not taken notice of this temporary "loophole." Do not be deceived. These parasites must justify their "jobs" and will eventually do so.
Dean
Could it be that state regulations limit overall length?
Once upon a time, tractor trailer regulations were much different from state to state but lobbyists have been able to remove many (most, all?) of the differences.
Regarding gliders: So far the 30 something bureaucrats sitting in cubes in DC have not taken notice of this temporary "loophole." Do not be deceived. These parasites must justify their "jobs" and will eventually do so.
Dean
john in la
Well-known Member
Yes states still limit overall length; trailer length/width; and weight.
Was a total nightmare when that was all we had were state laws.
The feds stepped in and said 53' trailers no overall length; 102" wide; doubles allowed and 80,000 lbs.
States east of the Mississippi were outraged.
Compromise was you want the federal dollars you will allow this on the federal highway system for commercial trucks.
State roads still fall under state laws.
This is why you can haul doubles in every state under commercial rules but you can not pull doubles in a RV setting in most states east of the Mississippi.
Between the EPA and DOT mandated electronic logs gliders are hot right now.
Up till a few years ago the company I work for only bought new trucks.
Today only road units are new. All city units are gliders.
Was a total nightmare when that was all we had were state laws.
The feds stepped in and said 53' trailers no overall length; 102" wide; doubles allowed and 80,000 lbs.
States east of the Mississippi were outraged.
Compromise was you want the federal dollars you will allow this on the federal highway system for commercial trucks.
State roads still fall under state laws.
This is why you can haul doubles in every state under commercial rules but you can not pull doubles in a RV setting in most states east of the Mississippi.
Between the EPA and DOT mandated electronic logs gliders are hot right now.
Up till a few years ago the company I work for only bought new trucks.
Today only road units are new. All city units are gliders.
john in la
Well-known Member
A glider is a new cab; frame; and front end.
It is meant to repair a wrecked newer truck.
You take the motor; trans; and rear end (big money in this size trucks) out of the wrecked truck and install in the new cab and frame.
Under federal DOT and EPA laws the truck can be a 2019 cab but if the motor is older than (I think) 2000 it does not have to follow the modern rules.
So essentially you can take a 2000 engine block; trans case; and rear end case; install all new insides and have a 2019 truck that follows 2000 laws.
Basically a loophole to get around modern EPA and DOT rules.
It is meant to repair a wrecked newer truck.
You take the motor; trans; and rear end (big money in this size trucks) out of the wrecked truck and install in the new cab and frame.
Under federal DOT and EPA laws the truck can be a 2019 cab but if the motor is older than (I think) 2000 it does not have to follow the modern rules.
So essentially you can take a 2000 engine block; trans case; and rear end case; install all new insides and have a 2019 truck that follows 2000 laws.
Basically a loophole to get around modern EPA and DOT rules.
john in la
Well-known Member
Trucks with a long wheel base like that are used to haul long pieces of steel or logs.
Under federal law you can only overhang the rear of the trailer by 4 feet without a permit.
So putting 60 foot steel on a 53 foot trailer (53 + 4 = 57 feet) becomes a problem.
With room to over hang the front the problem is solved.
Under federal law you can only overhang the rear of the trailer by 4 feet without a permit.
So putting 60 foot steel on a 53 foot trailer (53 + 4 = 57 feet) becomes a problem.
With room to over hang the front the problem is solved.
rlp in Co.
Well-known Member
That's a nice looking truck. That truck probably has air bags under the cab. The ride will not be bad at all. It can also haul about a thousand pounds of payload over a conventional cab. My cabover is very lite. It can haul about 1500 pounds more than a conventional. With my short wheel base, I can get in places that a long wheel base conventional would have a hard time.
johnofnewhaven
Well-known Member
Gliders now are not built to fix newer wrecked trucks. All though you can do that it is not the intended purpose of a glider kit. If a newer truck is wrecked so bad that only the engine and driveline are good then it would likely be a total insurance loss. They are for getting around the new emissions laws. Engines 2007 and older are before the new rounds of emission laws. So they put engines 2007 and older in glider kits to get around the emissions laws. If they put an engine in a glider kit older than a 2000 then they are also getting around the new ELD law.
Crazy Horse
Well-known Member
Greenenvy ..... not the old chassis I don't think. A new rolling chassis complete with body from the glider factory ..... and then an older drive train (engine, tranny, etc) installed.
neverfear
Member
- Location
- South Central MN
john in la
Well-known Member
Johnofnewhaven I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
While I will agree most gliders today are used to get around EPA and DOT laws.
The concept of why a glider kit is offered from the factory has been and still is to repair a wrecked truck.
While I will agree most gliders today are used to get around EPA and DOT laws.
The concept of why a glider kit is offered from the factory has been and still is to repair a wrecked truck.
john in la
Well-known Member
Odd the mandate date of July 1st has past and Fitzgerald has nothing on their web site to back this guys story up.
Fitzgerald Glider Kits
Fitzgerald Glider Kits
johnofnewhaven
Well-known Member
Ok then why would anyone want to put back in a new emissions engine in a glider kit if the engines are so unreliable. Like I stated if only the components are the only usable thing left out of a wreck it would be a total loss. I know of no one that has taken a new glider kit and put 2008 and newer engines in them. What the heck would be the point of that? Just go buy a low miles new emissions truck or a new truck. You can buy a low mile new emissions truck cheaper that putting a glider together forsure! If it is a total insurance loss then the insurance company sells it through an auction or to a salvage buyer. 2008 to about 2011-2012 (pre Def) engines are really not even wanted by salvage buyers because of the emission problems. International MaxForce engines are worth only scrap.
john in la
Well-known Member
I use to work at a truck dealer pre EPA standards (early 1980's)
Drilled a lot of frame rails so that the rear end could be mounted into a glider.
Done many gliders where the inside of the motor and trans were not touched because they were only a year or two old.
So what would be the point of a factory even offering glider kits way back then if a wreck was totaled and sold as scrap and it predated EPA and DOT rules.
Like I said since mid 2000's gliders have taken on a whole new role to try and side step EPA rules but glider kits originated long before the 2000's. They were originally built to fix wrecked trucks.
So by your standards if I buy a 2019 truck and my driver lays it on its side in the first couple of years (bends frame and crushes cab) I should junk tens of thousands of dollars in the engine trans and rear end that are less than 2 years old.
I do not think you realize that most of the cost in a new truck is the motor trans and rear end.
Drilled a lot of frame rails so that the rear end could be mounted into a glider.
Done many gliders where the inside of the motor and trans were not touched because they were only a year or two old.
So what would be the point of a factory even offering glider kits way back then if a wreck was totaled and sold as scrap and it predated EPA and DOT rules.
Like I said since mid 2000's gliders have taken on a whole new role to try and side step EPA rules but glider kits originated long before the 2000's. They were originally built to fix wrecked trucks.
So by your standards if I buy a 2019 truck and my driver lays it on its side in the first couple of years (bends frame and crushes cab) I should junk tens of thousands of dollars in the engine trans and rear end that are less than 2 years old.
I do not think you realize that most of the cost in a new truck is the motor trans and rear end.
johnofnewhaven
Well-known Member
John of LA. I have been in the truck industry for over 33 years and I still am. I have bought and sold literally thousands of class 8 and medium duty trucks. I have worked with manufacturers, manufacturers financial divisions, lease companies, insurance companies, trucking companies, new dealers and wholesalers. I have sat on advisory boards for value guides. I have given Court depositions on values for insurance companies and bankruptcies. I have help set residual values for lease companies and manufacture financial divisions. I also help lease companies spec out new trucks to get the best value on the secondary market. I have toward plants of every manufacturer of class 8 trucks in the USA. I have operated them as a business ( won't ever do that again). I am very familiar with glider kits. I
also understand what dollar amount the engine,transmission and rear end make up of a new truck. It is about 30% to 50% depending on the make and model of the component. Glider kits have been around for 40 plus years. It was introduced as a cheaper alternative to a new truck. I am saying that if you take a 2 year old over the road truck that is totaled (as you used for an example) and everything is junk except the engine, transmission and rear end then yes the insurance company will more than likely deem the damage and repair exceeds the value of the truck. I have seen less than a year old truck be totaled by an insurance company and yes the engine, transmission and rear ends were all usable. I don't think you realize the cost of rebuilding a totaled class 8 truck. As far as pre-emissions era glider kits many people would take the components from a wrecked truck and put them in a glider kit but the insurance company already paid on the total loss and sold the wreck to a salvage yard or sold it back to person or company who had it insured. I know of no insurance company that buys a glider kit to put back together a wrecked truck because it is cost prohibitive and the bank financing it doesn't want a glider as collateral when they originally financed a factory-built truck. I understand you put together glider kits back in the 80's but gliders were introduced as cheaper alternative to a new trucks. It just so happens glider kits work out great for good components out of a totaled wrecked truck.
also understand what dollar amount the engine,transmission and rear end make up of a new truck. It is about 30% to 50% depending on the make and model of the component. Glider kits have been around for 40 plus years. It was introduced as a cheaper alternative to a new truck. I am saying that if you take a 2 year old over the road truck that is totaled (as you used for an example) and everything is junk except the engine, transmission and rear end then yes the insurance company will more than likely deem the damage and repair exceeds the value of the truck. I have seen less than a year old truck be totaled by an insurance company and yes the engine, transmission and rear ends were all usable. I don't think you realize the cost of rebuilding a totaled class 8 truck. As far as pre-emissions era glider kits many people would take the components from a wrecked truck and put them in a glider kit but the insurance company already paid on the total loss and sold the wreck to a salvage yard or sold it back to person or company who had it insured. I know of no insurance company that buys a glider kit to put back together a wrecked truck because it is cost prohibitive and the bank financing it doesn't want a glider as collateral when they originally financed a factory-built truck. I understand you put together glider kits back in the 80's but gliders were introduced as cheaper alternative to a new trucks. It just so happens glider kits work out great for good components out of a totaled wrecked truck.
Check Break
Member
The source you went to for info doesn't know anything either. If that's the engine she came with when built, it's a 3406B which was one of CAT's best mechanical engines. With clean air, oil and fuel and driven reasonably, more like 750,000 or more miles before thinking about doing anything.
Check Break
Member
Not at all. It depends upon whether you're on the outside looking in or the inside looking out. Shop rates make most wrecks totals. We rebuild everything we wreck. Sometimes we repair the cab, sometimes we rebuild. We have one FL that's been rolled twice, cab rebuilt both times. Rolled a sister and replaced the cab because it was the cheaper option at that time. A friend of mine wrecked his heavy haul ten years ago. The dealer didn't know what to do but I got the insurance company to agree to repair it because it had a high replacement value. What started out as a $70K quote ended up at $140K when finished. The shop completely screwed the insuror. In our shop it would have been treated as having but a scratch. So, repairability is completely dependent upon the capability of the repair facility and their shop rate. When you have your own shop, the cost is significantly less.
johnofnewhaven
Well-known Member
I said you can buy a low mile
new emissions truck for less
than putting together a glider
kit. What you are saying has
nothing to do with a glider kit.
You absolutely can buy a low
mile new emissions truck
compared to buying and putting
together a new glider kit!!!
Especially right now because the
truck market is in the tank!!!
new emissions truck for less
than putting together a glider
kit. What you are saying has
nothing to do with a glider kit.
You absolutely can buy a low
mile new emissions truck
compared to buying and putting
together a new glider kit!!!
Especially right now because the
truck market is in the tank!!!
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When someone comes on the computer,and blows their horn about how much they know,33 years pushing trucks with a pencil,how great thou art,yada,yada,yada,credilbility to me goes out the window. Been driving and building semi's since the 60's,still at it,and that's all I will say. Have a nice day.
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When someone comes on the computer,and blows their horn about how much they know,33 years pushing trucks with a pencil,how great thou art,yada,yada,yada,credilbility to me goes out the window. Been driving and building semi's since the 60's,still at it,and that's all I will say. Have a nice day.
timcasbolt
Well-known Member
Lighten up Francis. Your opinion isn't worth one penny more than mine.
johnofnewhaven
Well-known Member
Been driving and building semi's since the 60's? Just blew your own horn trkr. Guess your credibility is out the window too. Thanks for posting the old advertisement, backs up what I was saying. As far as your "pushing trucks with a pencil" comment you need to re-read my post...all my post about glider kits. Also just a rude slam. I did own trucks (as I stated) for awhile as a small trucking company several years ago. Nope never had the desire to drive for a living. Guess in your eyes that is the one factor that makes me not credible. I have wrenched on many a truck over the years. No I have not "built" one unless you consider swapping out major components or a cab change building a truck but I don't consider that building a truck. Keep on trucking trkr and have a nice day.
People want them they?re different and pretty dang cool the old ones like this not the newer ugly aerodynamic pos cab overs As far as ride with air suspension and cab air bags they?re not bad at all drove an old kenworth for about ten years all over the west and it was actually nicer and had a lot better cab than day a ford conventional
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
3406 Cat. NO electronics. Just pure horsepower. I spent some time driving a similar Ford. Air ride cab, air ride seat, and air ride suspension. Rode NICER than ANY Cadillac.
johnofnewhaven
Well-known Member
I think they mean a 1984
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