Hay cutting equipment question

Bruce from Can. · May 28, 2019

I know many are moving to disc cutting machines to cut their hay crops and away from sickle bar cutting heads, on mowers and mower/conditioners. My question is do any of you cut hay with a disc mower, not a discmower/conditioner, just a theee point hitch disc mower. The kind like you might see the township workers trimming the side of the road with. I make very little dry hay, near all our hay is either been put through the forage harvester, or made into silage bales. So I am not as concerned about conditioning the hay to speed drying time. Disc mowers leave the hay in a wide swath, not in a tight windrow, so it may dry down almost as fast as conditioning anyway. A new discmower conditioner with a 10 foot cut, will cost me about $35,000.00 Canadian dollars. While I can buy a disc mower for $15,000.00 . Both units are brand new, and can get a grand off for cash purchase. With most years taking 3 cuts off of 100 acres, and another 100 or so getting one cutting, it is becoming a challenge to keep my 30 year old cutting equipment working, and speed is starting to become a bigger issue as well. Probably cut at a much faster ground speed with a disc cutter. Just don?t know if it is really worth the extra 20 grand for conditioning rolls, and slightly less for fail , if conditioning isn?t really needed. Anyone got one? Thoughts?

Erik Ks farmer · May 28, 2019

I?ve used a 3 point mounted 9? disc mower to put up around 200 acres the last several years. It is certainly much faster than a sickle type machine, I would say the 9? mower is comparable to a 12? hydro swing sickle type machine in productivity. That said I?ve also run 13? hydro swing disc mower conditioners and if it were within my means to own one that is what I would have. I like the ability to lay the hay in a windrow so the ground will dry between the swaths, and my 12 wheel high capacity rake picks the hay up better. The productivity of these machines I would say is a 1/3 greater than the mounted disc mower in a days time.

Erik Ks farmer · May 28, 2019

I think you?ll find it difficult to rake high moisture hay laid flat on the ground in with a disc mower.

Fred Werring · May 28, 2019

I use a plain disc mower and manage to get my hay done. I will drag out the 488 haybine also if I have help mowing, really can't tell much difference in curing between the two. I'm in southern Ohio for a geographical reference.

But most of my hay is just grass, no heavy clover/alfalfa, dries down pretty good if I tedd it once. I'm not making dairy quality hay. And I only do about 80 acres.

I did go with a disc mower caddy a few years ago...3 point disc mowers can be a real pain to hook up if everything isn't just right.

Fred

MJMJ · May 28, 2019

The VAST majority of folks around here use plain disc mowers. Doesn't seem to be much drying time difference between them and my old haybine, especially if tedded.

NY 986 · May 28, 2019

The neighbor made the switch from sickle m-c to disc m-c and saw no difference in the rate of drying/curing. Wishes he had kept the old sickle machine for down hay. The disc will work fine for lightly matted hay but struggles if a field got knocked flat from a storm. Unless you have 35,000 dollars burning a hole in your pocket why change unless to show off?

ohiojim · May 28, 2019

no way you're gonna lay hay down with a disc mower and get it dry as fast as a mower conditioner, but the disc mowers are a fast way to put hay on the ground.

Bruce from Can. · May 28, 2019

Why change? Once you start to go to buy parts, and you machine is deemed to be obsolete by the manufacturer, your existing hay cutting equipment really starts to slow production. Wish I did just have money burning a hole in my pocket, if I did, I?d just go buy one of each , and see which I liked best. Till then, I seek the advice of those that have had experience to share, not so much interested in opinions of those whom have never used this kind of equipment, just think what they have is the best way.

jon f mn · May 28, 2019

I would say that for grass type Hays there won't be much difference in drying, but for hard stem Hays like clover and alfalfa a conditioner will help drying a lot. Of course my experience in several decades old.

NY 986 · May 28, 2019

It was not my intent to offend you which it seems I have done. I do talk to my neighbor which is why I passed along those observations. I am seeing more small dairies buy parts machines to be able to service their existing field units in order to survive. In the case of a 9 foot NH sickle haybine they pull off items such as gearboxes and wobble boxes and go through them. If only needing common bearings and seals they get rebuilt and put on a shelf until needed. Anything that is beyond repair goes to the scrap yard. It's getting harder to get custom work done so guys are doing their best to get their current line up of equipment to produce. Guys who really wanted to deal with cows are seeing that they need to get proficient at machinery upkeep to maximize profits.

Bruce from Can. · May 28, 2019

I wondered about how well a wheel rake would work with hay laid flat. I want to be able to rake hay at something around 35% moisture. You raise a good point, I hadn?t considered

tomstractorsandtoys · May 28, 2019

If you are not making dry hay go with the disc mower. When we had the dairy cows we cut with an old Deere 800 swather with no rolls and then would ted it out wide. For haylage we usually could chop the same day with good drying weather. If I was you I would buy the disc mower and also a rotary hay tedder if you do not already have one. Tom

showcrop · May 28, 2019

I mowed for a number of years with a disc mower before going to a sickle bar mower conditioner and then to a discbine. I would say that the main factor is your ground. If you have some very well drained ground to make your dry hay on you could do it all with the disc mower and way faster than with your sickle bar mower. Here in the northeast little ground is well drained, so in order to dry the ground we mow into a narrow swath and let the ground dry for 5-6 hours before tedding out. When you mow wide you are pressing the wet grass down into the wet ground and you end up getting wet bunches when you rake. Another consideration is trailed disc mower vs. 3 pt. The way the 3pt swings wide on corners means your corners get more and more pointed. You will also spend far less time maintaining a disc mower than a sickle bar type.

dcarp · May 28, 2019

Cut hay a disc mower for 10 yrs before I switched to to mower/conditioner. Disk mower will cut much faster, in most any conditions. If dry down is an issue go with the conditioner. If you go with the plane disc mower get a draw bar hitch one. The 3 pt ones are a real pain in the butt to put on and take off.

NY 986 · May 28, 2019

Around here a conditioner is a must regardless of soil type if you want to make dry hay. In a spring such as this a conditioner will be very useful to get the hay to a point to
chop for silage in between the rains.

Ken Macfarlane · May 28, 2019

In maritimes many of the guys who make silage it balage have gone to straight mowers. The first day of dry down is faster unconditioned.

I run a pottinger novacat 305 with the flail conditioner module but it can be removed and run as a straight mower. I make dry hay so haven?t removed it.

HuskerLyn · May 28, 2019

Use a disc-mower to put up Bermudagrass and it works great. Agree that 3 pt hookup can be tough. I do wish I had a caddy and will get one on my next. But for grass type hay I would definitely recommend them.

centash · May 28, 2019

I always had the problem of the hay cut for haylage drying down too fast. I cut with a
NH 492 sickle conditioner and it would go in an open top silo the same day. We learned to leave a few acres uncut which could then be cut and mixed with the cut haulage that was getting too dry. Cut with a disc mower and left just wide enough for a wide throat pickup on the harvester will save having to rake it, save some leaf loss due to the conditioning rolls, save power and may make the whole process a little less timing sensitive. Non conditioned hay will stand a rain or two better than conditioned hay eith less quality loss.
I like your optimism that it may eventually dry off enough to cut hay....lol

ben

jm. · May 28, 2019

Bruce we have used 9 ft Kuhns for the last 8 years but this year got one of the new Kubota branded vicons and it will lay some hay on the ground. Most of ours does not require a conditioner , sometimes we use a tedder if it is a little damp.

Destroked 450 · May 28, 2019

I wouldn't have a 3 point disc mower, to much trouble to hook up and puts a lot of stress on the right side lift arm.
I use a trailed disc mower without the conditioner.

Purchased this Kuhn GMD2850TL 9 ft trailed mower in 2014 for $14000, their a little over $16k today.
I've mowed enough hay with this mower for over 4000 rolls, only maintenance has been grease and blade changes.
The GMD3150 is their 10ft model

If you decide on one like this get the optional CV joint on the secondary drive shaft, it allows you the close up the machine when moving around obstacles without turning the pto off.
I wasn't aware of that option when I purchased mine, figured it out real quick first time I closed it running and rattled the ujoint.

LSaunders · May 28, 2019

The Kuhn 283 pull type disc mower-conditioner that I've run for the past 11 years has adjustable wings on the rear, similar to the old NH Haybines, so you can make a windrow, or leave it flat as I do to dry for horse hay. I don't think the mower only machines have that capability. So the combo types would let you skip raking when you're making silage or balage.

paul · May 28, 2019

Yup, grass hay works fine to bale.

Alfalfa I do a handful of acres, but I should have a way to condition that crop you would not be happy doing a much alfalfa with just a disk mower.

I got my 9 foot 3 point at a farm auction, it was so new the paint wasn?t off the original blades themselves, $8000. One of my better buys. Got it 3 years ago, it works fine for grass hay, a NH model I forget the model number.

Paul

paul · May 28, 2019

Medium to shorter grass hay rakes just fine with my cheap 3pt wheel rake. Tall grass (can be 5 feet tall in my swampy area before I can get to mow it) is tough to rake with a wheel rake, just too much stuff for the wheels to handle. Last couple years I have ended up mowing with the disc mower, and round baling it directly without any raking. It is so thick and long it fills the baler pretty good. Can come through and rake the scraps after if I missed much. This assumes a dry window to let it lay long enough. Otherwise I can use my old NH bar rake to rake it, but I tend to get too big a windrow for the baler with even one pass.

So, depends what type and volume of grass hay we are talking about. If you grow grass on lighter ground that won?t grow a row crop you should be fine? Here locally we grow grass hay on wetlands more or less too wet to farm for row crops but dry up most mid summers, real low ground and that can lead to some very heavy and over ripe hay crops. Those are tough to manage any which way with the wet ground, wet hay, humid summers... ah geez now I?m depressed again just thinking about it.....

Paul

Brown Swiss · May 28, 2019

Bruce i bought a disc mower brand new for 10500. I was ppanning on just doing silage bales but the alfalfa dried so fast even without conditioning that i made a lot of dry hay also. Mine is 11 foot cut, massey 1362. I recomend a krone though if the protective drive shears then it takes out the ones next to it. Krone if it shears that hub raises up out of the way.

newhollandnut · May 28, 2019

Had conditioners but have ran 2 new holland disc mowers for years and never had any problem with drying. Run the tedder on probably about half of it mainly just because my uncle is in his late 70?s and loves running the tedder. Running two nine footers you can lay down more hay than you can get baled but near 100% is cut after work and either take a day off or bale on the weekends. To answer you main question and I think you already know the answer. No you are not going to get $20,000 worth of a better job with the conditioner. There 3pts are a pain to hook up sometimes but I?m pretty sure you kubotas probably have the fender mounted 3pt controls and that makes a huge difference

495man · May 29, 2019

Made dry hay for years with a straight sickle bar mower.

Still make dry hay with a straight disc mower.

David Snipes · May 29, 2019

I use a 3 point mount disc and I will never go back to a sickle. It cuts faster, is clog free and will do well on lodged grass. The manual says it will cut up to 18 kilometers per hour, but I would get bounced off the tractor at that speed. It has no conditioner so I ted my hay the same day and sometimes a second time, depending on the weather or soil moisture level. It's a JF Stohl brand had has unique style cutting blades. When they wore out I tried after market ones and found the to be inferior, so I went back to the Stohl factory blades.

dairyman · May 29, 2019

For the way you want to use it I?d think a disc mower would be fine. We run a Reese drum mower for doing hay and when we?re chopping hay silage we typically cut one afternoon and chop the next. We?ve also run in the same field as a friends new Holland 1411 discbine and didn?t notice any real difference in dry time for the hay,this was in July early season may be different. We also do dry hay with our drum mower by attaching the spreader attachment and also tedding the next day. Obviously your area may have different weather patterns affecting outcome. I?m in north central Ohio for reference.
Dave

Destroked 450 · May 29, 2019

I was tempted to buy a Reese but wasn't sure if my 50 hp tractor would handle a 10 ft cutter.

BarnyardEngineering · May 30, 2019

The mistake people make with disc mowers of any kind is grinding the grass off right at the ground. THAT is what makes the hay hard to pick up with a rake.

When the hay is up on a few inches of stubble, it's much easier to pick up with a rake, and the field seems to recover quicker.

Hay cutting equipment question

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