Well, makers of Roundup keep losing damage suits. Now what? No till agriculture is based on killing weeds with spray and the human race is based on that method. Back to weed tillage and soil erosion? All will be good as long as our bellies are full and environmentalist are happy. Not.
 
Gosh without Roundup there might not be huge surpluses of corn and soybeans,prices of grain might be at a profitable level and farmers wouldn't be going bankrupt.Huge outfits wouldn't be buying up a lot of Farmland because it so easy to grow row crops with RR grain.Yea that'd be a real crisis,as you say.NOT! Oh and the Chinese military and factory workers would be going a little hungry that one really keeps me awake at night(LOL)I'm gonna really miss having Roundup in my oatmeal and other food we eat too.
 
Back to restricted use pesticides that only those of us who are trained to do it right can buy and use.
 
Roundup has nothing to do with our crop surplus. Taking it away will just cause us farmers to use even more potent and dangerous chemicals for burn down (Paraquat ect) or much more tillage that will result in more fuel consumed and lots more erosion. There is nothing that the US farmer can not produce into total worthlessness. Roundup will go down in history as the most over used chemical ever as some farmers are using nothing but it. I myself use it for burndown in notill corn and also two passes on my soybeans but I also use other chemicals so that I do not get resistant weeds.You talked a good bit about hemp if there is any profit in it a few years down the road it will be massively overproduced as well. Tom
 
Or do the obvious,switch to Liberty Link corn and beans.

Dang,then the wack jobs would have to start from scratch and demonize a whole different product.
 
Is that the answer? Her in WI anybody with even half a brain can pass the open book questions in the order they are found in the book chemical test. Dad was notilling 40 years ago and I remember some nasty chemicals like Paraquat and high rates of Atrazine for burn down. Roudup is not perfect but it is the best we have right now. I would hate to see the results of going away from it again. We need a different mindset on when and how much is used as well as how often. Tom
 
I believe there is an organized effort to destroy manufacturing in this country and this is just another part of it. It's only natural this would come from California.
 
If you're willing to use them and not chemicals you can get about 3X $$$ per bushel for what you grow and you won't have to worry about what the Chinese decide to do and how it affects the price you get.Your market will be other Americans.
 
True there were surpluses but RR crops have multiplied the problem with more production and coupled with consumer resistance to those crops.Been to a Whole Foods, Trader Joes or Wegmans lately? You'll see US consumers are rejecting chemically grown food big time.
 

Considering how quickly our farm land is being swallowed up by new highways, shopping malls, and housing, I am surprised that there is ENOUGH food being produced.
 
I.can almost imagine gps guidance systems applied to our much loved 40?s and 50?s row crop tractors with mounted cultivator. I didn?t google that yet but I did google: ?robotic weeding/cultivation ?. I have a pretty fertile imagination and very few of the crazy ideas I?ve typed into google have turned up nothing. New ways of doing things humans don?t care to do any more brought us tractors, herbicides and whatever is next.Anyway,at some point in time an Oliver 66 with a mounted cultivator was cutting edge technology, not top of the line maybe too small but they sure look cool.
 
Would not miss roundup one bit. Only trierd using it for one weed that was onthe lable. Had the chemical company apply and after found out they did not follow lable I tried it myself following lable And each year the weed came back harder than the year before. And never used it on a crop even when I had RR ready beans one year that seed company switched to them from what I ordered and only found out about it after friends that planted them while I was at Father-in-law's funeral that they did that trick, sold me no more seed. Users of it wait untill the weed has gone to seed before they will spray so the weed seed crop is already in the ground to come up later that year. NO I would not miss it if it went away. Other sprays that are a lot better suited for things.
 
As an Agent Orange victim like many others. I really can't support the use of it. Don't worry the stuff is harmless. Or so they told us.
 
(quoted from post at 07:44:58 05/14/19) Monsanto is owned by Bayer a German Company.So what does that have to do with American manufacturing?
isleading, as you well know that ownership change is in recent times, long into the life of Roundup.
 
Like I said in another reply,there's always Liberty. As far as restricting everything,I'd be OK with that. It's that time of year when,if you pay attention,these forums are going to be loaded up with people asking sprayer questions. If they were certified,or even had the book,they wouldn't have to ask. If you have to ask,or use this stuff hap hazard without knowing what you're doing,you flat out shouldn't be using any of it in the first place. Joe homeowner isn't going to spend weeks studying that manual and taking half a day off to take the test every three years just to buy a quart of ready to use glyphosate once a year. I'd rather eat bees than take that thing,but I have to.

As far as going back to cultivating,you and I both know it can't happen with no til or minimum till. Too much trash.

I don't know how these judgements can ever stand up under appeal anyway. No science to back it up. It's all just based on emotion among jury members. Even the EPA has come out stressing that it's not carcinogenic.
 
Whole Foods, Trader Joes or Wegmans lately?

In all honesty,I don't think there's one of those within 50 miles of here minimum. Probably 500 miles for one of them since I've never even heard of Wegmans. Is there a Trader Joes in Michigan? You live in a bubble.
 
Regardless they are no longer an American company right?And they never looked out for Americans since they sold their technology all over the World and enabled places like
Brazil to grow crops they couldn't grow before and compete with US Farmers.Monsanto suckered US farmers to support them and they took it hook,line and sinker.
 
No you guys live in the bubble in rural America,where the population centers (voters) are located things and people's ideas are far different.There are probably more people within 5 miles
of my farm than are in many rural counties.
 
(quoted from post at 03:06:11 05/14/19) Well, makers of Roundup keep losing damage suits. Now what? No till agriculture is based on killing weeds with spray and the human race is based on that method. Back to weed tillage and soil erosion? All will be good as long as our bellies are full and environmentalist are happy. Not.

Well they lied about how safe it is (based on court findings). Pretty simple. You make a product that's unsafe, lie about the safety and people become sick, are injured and the die from the injuries or illnesses you get sued. Pretty simple. Doesn't matter if it's Monsanto or if it's Boeing.

"No till agriculture is based on killing weeds with spray and the human race is based on that method"???? WOW? The human race is based one that method? Where did that come from? Lot of places don't use no till. Plus heck of a lot of places around the world don't even allow GMO's or Roundup. And US farmers only produce about 45% of the worlds food. And if the world needed more food? Well we could stop devoting productive land that could feed people to our gas tanks.

Guess what? Very large areas don't do no till so that's not an issue. If no till was the way all the companies making and selling tillage tools would be out of business. Here you get soil compaction problems in as little as 2 years that impact yields.

Now another thing to add to the farmers problems is that average Joe citizen has or is fast loosing confidence in the farmer. Now ask yourself why. I'm sure that most of you will blame the anti GMO folks and environmentalist. That is not the problem. The problem is that almost everyone has internet access and can research stuff as you are speaking. So you make a false comment like "No till agriculture is based on killing weeds with spray and the human race is based on that method". They can fact check you. Right away they find that the highest percentage of farmers are not doing no till, US farmers produce less than 50% of the worlds food and that we dedicate productive land for the gas tank. And now they are supposed to believe a word you say? Heck if they were trying to sell you on an idea and you caught them lying you wouldn't believe them anymore either.

Rick
 
It's all gonna be up to another generation to sort out. I can quit and walk away with a pocket full of cash anytime I want to. If consumers want to go back to spending 30% of their income on food again like they did in the early 50s,that's their problem. The few years I have left in me though,I'm not going back to farming the way we did in the 60s. That's a young dreamer's game. BTDT,won't do it again. Life expectancy was a h3ll of a lot shorter back then anyway.
 
There are 7 whole foods in Michigan and 8 Trader Joes so now you can do some shopping for quality food.(LOL) And in my area every chain grocery store has a good size organic section,even Walmart.BTW 467 Whole Food stores Nationwide.
 
"It's all just based on emotion among jury members."

That's why I say there is no justice with the current court systems and "jury of your peers" is just a bunch of crap. Never interviewed for juror duty and saw any of "my peers" sitting in the lobby....and only got selected once for a trivial suit. What I find frightening is that our system of courts and all is supposed to be the best there is! That's scary. Didn't like the idea of discarding what was right and wrong.....just base your decision on what you were fed, what the lawyers wanted you to get, twisted to suit their favor to "win the case". Also didn't like witness intimidation having nothing to do with the case, just another trick to win. Pfffffffft. I'm using past tense here as I'm over the age of jury duty calling.
 
Over forty percent of the US corn crop is used to produce ethanol (that US consumers don't need or want anymore) and we still have a ever increasing record carry-overs of surplus corn. Soybean exports are plummeting due to the trade war with China. Agricultural chemicals in our water supplies and waterways are exploding exponentially. On the national level, reducing corn and soybean production seems like the smart thing for the US to do right now. What's the problem?
 
(quoted from post at 05:42:16 05/14/19) Like I said in another reply,there's always Liberty. As far as restricting everything,I'd be OK with that. It's that time of year when,if you pay attention,these forums are going to be loaded up with people asking sprayer questions. If they were certified,or even had the book,they wouldn't have to ask. If you have to ask,or use this stuff hap hazard without knowing what you're doing,you flat out shouldn't be using any of it in the first place. Joe homeowner isn't going to spend weeks studying that manual and taking half a day off to take the test every three years just to buy a quart of ready to use glyphosate once a year. I'd rather eat bees than take that thing,but I have to.

As far as going back to cultivating,you and I both know it can't happen with no til or minimum till. Too much trash.

I don't know how these judgements can ever stand up under appeal anyway. No science to back it up. It's all just based on emotion among jury members. Even the EPA has come out stressing that it's not carcinogenic.

UHHH better check. Bayer will appeal. But I doubt that the verdict will be tossed. Just the award. Odds are a judge will significantly reduce the awards from say 2 billion to 5 million.

As far as what the USDA and EPA says? People have zero confidence in either. Fact is you yourself have railed against the EPA over tier 3 and 4, climate change affected by man and other things that affect farmers. So which is it? Can we trust the EPA to be honest or not? Can't have it both ways.

Rick
 
Corn in the can, that's sold in grocery stores has 13 parts per million Roundup in it, that's about 20 times to much, that's where all these leaky gut syndrome comes from ! If it kills weeds, it can kill people!
 
I have brought this up a couple of times over two or three years and got shot down. The lawers and enviro crazies don't care. If you want to use this stuff you better mortgage the farm and buy as much as you can stockpile. Think I am kidding???? Three years ago you could walk into the feed store and buy a pouch of antibiotics for $18.oo. Remember?? Remember good old DDT? Now roaches and bed bugs mosquitoes etc are harder than ever to control. It is comming.
 
And they told us it was harmless. Don't worry. Or as they told us. It will kill bugs,plants,animals and trees. But it won't hurt you.
 
If people were not being harmed by Roundup, Monsanto would not have the anywhere close to the 13,000 Roundup lawsuits against them. It's too easy to just blame the lawyers when the real problem is real people are being harmed by the product.
 

I'm sorry that I even opened this thread. The amount of mis-information is simply overwhelming.

Read between the lines. The only true winners in this whole thing are the lawyers.
 
(quoted from post at 05:59:43 05/14/19) It's all gonna be up to another generation to sort out. I can quit and walk away with a pocket full of cash anytime I want to. If consumers want to go back to spending 30% of their income on food again like they did in the early 50s,that's their problem. The few years I have left in me though,I'm not going back to farming the way we did in the 60s. That's a young dreamer's game. BTDT,won't do it again. Life expectancy was a h3ll of a lot shorter back then anyway.

BS! Go tell that to other farmers. They are the only ones left who believe that nonsense. I have the net and can fact check you. You the farmer market the same as always. You take whatever they will give you. So other than production levels you have no control over the cost of food. Plus fact check where the money for food was going to even back then. It wasn't to the farmer. What happened was automation. Needed fewer workers at the elevator. Needed fewer workers unloading grain from trains. Needed fewer workers at the plants that processed food. Sure what they paid for commodities has to be included but they were not paying that much. The drop from 30% in 1950 to 19% in 1960 had nothing to do with the farmer. 1: people were making more money so that had the biggest effect. 2: production cost went down as they eliminated workers. Heck in 1970 a fair amount of grain was shipped in box cars that had to be unloaded with laborers. Today almost all grain is shipped in covered hoppers. Go into the factories. Look at the automation. You can look it up to. How stuff is made should give you a good idea. Millions of loaves of bread hardly any human interaction.

Rick
 
I have had two friends who died, and others that are sick from that crap Agent Orange, I got a neighbor who was 2 years older than I, he was in the Marine's, he said they washed their fatigues in the very water, that was standing around the dead foliage. It wont hurt you!!!!
 
I need to add something. I think it is time to sit on the sofa with my kitty cats next to me. Turn on the TV, watch cartoons, and suck my thumb as the world come to an end. I have jury duty in two days. Want to guess how that will go?
 
Getting to be a real concern as to chemical weed control here in NY in terms of what will be permitted in the future. A very real possibility chemical control could be 100 percent banned in the next 10-20 years. As far as mechanical control it certainly is an available method but you do lose some control. Somebody said something to the effect of hard to use because of narrower rows. Guess what? Guys will go back back to 30 inch rows and live with the downsides of mechanical weed control if chemical control is no longer allowed in their state.
 
(quoted from post at 07:14:35 05/14/19) Getting to be a real concern as to chemical weed control here in NY in terms of what will be permitted in the future. A very real possibility chemical control could be 100 percent banned in the next 10-20 years. As far as mechanical control it certainly is an available method but you do lose some control. Somebody said something to the effect of hard to use because of narrower rows. Guess what? Guys will go back back to 30 inch rows and live with the downsides of mechanical weed control if chemical control is no longer allowed in their state.

/Winner!

Rick
 
Wegman's is the big regional chain grocery store here expanding to Boston, NYC, and Philadelphia areas. Not what they once were but still pretty could. Gotta ask the next time I am there why the small one person sized cans of veggies have been cut back. I like spinach but the wife does not.
 
If round up and any other spray was banned it would take much more time to get a crop from planting to harvest.how could BTOsraise 10,000 acres or more of Corn n beans while working long hours for a few weeks in the spring and a few weeks in the fall?? They couldn't spend half their time on hunting trips or in Florida/Arizona. They would have to work harder and longer, this will never happen.
 
It?s a misinformation bubble.

In the 70s people forgot they need good food, and went for the basic cravings - sugar and fat and cheap.

Food processors complied, and made sugary fat cheap food. Consumers rejoiced, and spent their money on cars and electronics from overseas.

The pendulum swung and consumers realized the food they were getting was cheap and highly processed into gunk, and wanted something different but they were now so far removed from the farm they didn?t know what they wanted.

Food processors got scared. They knew above all most consumers want cheap food, but the beating drum of also wanting good food from a small but growing segment was hard to ignore.

So food processors and retailers hit upon the organic label, and got it pushed through the fed govt. these food processors could the. Continue to make the cheap sugar and fat foods for the masses, and developed a premium line of speedy trendy food that they advertise as good and healthy because it has some magic words associated with it.

Actually gmo grains and conventional farming produces just as good if not better foods; but the food processors and retailers have marketing figured out and they have lead people astray with their chatchy ad campaigns.

What is wrong with our foods is that they are over processed and cheap and sugary and fatty. All added and stirred together in the processing.

GMO or herbicides or organic is a waste of breath there is nothing to any of that. Nothing.

But it was a simple convenient way for the big global food companies to divide and conquer. They could get their main ingredients for their big volume cheap food eve. Cheaper, and create a premium, high priced small volume line of organic foods to fleece high dollars from upscale affluent types.

And the consumers are so far removed from the farm, and food in general, that they slurp up that advertising gimmick hook line and sinker.

As have you.

That?s fine, pendulums always swing.

Folks will come back to be center, and realize the organic hype is just that, hype, and what is good healthy food is stuff that is less processed, made from good healthy stuff off the farm. Organic is really meaningless, science can help us and can be good for us but we can?t focus on super cheap, super sugar salt fat food. We need to focus on good food.

The mid 20s age group is already coming around to that, and leaving your ideas in the dust.

It?s good that people care about their food, and their health, and eating good food.

The whole organic movement had good intentions but derailed itself down a silly avenue that is meaningless.

Expletive will get back tot he basics, and get over the hype of advertising many fell for.

It will be ok, there will probably always be a small nitche market for garden growers like to to peddle your stuff.

Farmers and bulk grains are bott he problem in our society.

Using those bulk grains (and veggies)to create poor mush is the problem.

Organic is beside the point.

People will realize that eventually.

Heck in 75 years they will forget and again be on a trend of cheap, fat, salty, sweet processed foods.... so it goes.

We know better, most of us, even as we do it.

Way back when I started my day before school with a bowl of Quisp. Little puffs of some processed fluffed grain that was probably 40% sugar..... my life would not be any better if it had been organic Quisp. Might be better if it was less processed, less sugar, regular grain.

It isn?t if it is organic or not. That?s a pointless advertising gimmick.

Paul
 
I think that the BTO's are sweating in private here in NY. It has been a wet spring here which could carry into summer. A situation where chemicals are 100 percent banned would mean trying to cultivate in the mud in a lot of cases which is not happening.
 
I think the folks that are defending Roundup the strongest in this thread, are the ones that are the most dependent on Roundup to grow their crops, the way they want to, large acreages , no till. And it works, no argument. The real discussion begins with, how do you continue to farm, if there was no longer Roundup. On my farm, I would hardly notice, as I am not depending on Roundup. I do grow corn, and have used Roundup for weed control in the past , but there are other options. Most farmers that are dependent on Roundup grow only corn and soybeans, and do not rotate their land into hay, or cereal crops. When farming was mixed vs mono crops, a farmer had opinions, example would be not growing row crops on highly erosion prone land. But modern Ag doesn?t lend itself to smaller fields and strip crops, everyone just wants to have fields 100acres or more in size. If Roundup is banned some day in the future, it won?t be the end of the world, just the end of current cropping practices.
 
But you do use chemical control. What would you do if there was a 100 percent ban of chemicals in your province?
 
And an end to huge surpluses which would raise prices.Also would be a huge boost for small farmers that actually want to farm and not put out hundreds or thousands of acres and collect all the gov't goodies they can reel in.Federal Crop Insurance and RR crops have done more to destroy the small farms than anything else both have let BTO get a foothold,drive the price of land up and create huge surpluses.
 
Doesn't take scientific facts to be sued. All it takes is having some money and a lawyer willing to argue to convince the jury.

Judge isn't an expert
Jury aren't experts
Lawyers aren't experts

Cancer risk is highly complex and teaching a jury the statistics of risk analysis, the chemistry and bio-chemistry behind the method of action of glyphosate and all the other technical details doesn't play well against my client has cancer and has suffered and they are sitting over there on a big pot of money.

Do some work on risk analysis, you will soon see humans are utterly terrible at understanding risk and ranking it as its done with a bunch of the emotional/feeling parts of the brain rather than logic or evidence. All it takes is to make the jury feel the same and you win, doesn't have to be true, or scientifically accurate.
 
During the tough times of the late 1970's there was an old joke going around:

"When my neighbor looses his job, that's too bad.
When I loose my job, that's a disaster!"

A lot of the people here are looking at how today's changes in farming will affect them personally rather than looking at the big picture of what is good for the country, what's good for consumers, what's good for the industry and what's good for rural communities. It's normal and healthy for a person to look out for our own selves first, but eventually we all have to deal with the reality at hand.
 
(quoted from post at 07:30:30 05/14/19) It?s a misinformation bubble.

In the 70s people forgot they need good food, and went for the basic cravings - sugar and fat and cheap.

Food processors complied, and made sugary fat cheap food. Consumers rejoiced, and spent their money on cars and electronics from overseas.

The pendulum swung and consumers realized the food they were getting was cheap and highly processed into gunk, and wanted something different but they were now so far removed from the farm they didn?t know what they wanted.

Food processors got scared. They knew above all most consumers want cheap food, but the beating drum of also wanting good food from a small but growing segment was hard to ignore.

So food processors and retailers hit upon the organic label, and got it pushed through the fed govt. these food processors could the. Continue to make the cheap sugar and fat foods for the masses, and developed a premium line of speedy trendy food that they advertise as good and healthy because it has some magic words associated with it.

Actually gmo grains and conventional farming produces just as good if not better foods; but the food processors and retailers have marketing figured out and they have lead people astray with their chatchy ad campaigns.

What is wrong with our foods is that they are over processed and cheap and sugary and fatty. All added and stirred together in the processing.

GMO or herbicides or organic is a waste of breath there is nothing to any of that. Nothing.

But it was a simple convenient way for the big global food companies to divide and conquer. They could get their main ingredients for their big volume cheap food eve. Cheaper, and create a premium, high priced small volume line of organic foods to fleece high dollars from upscale affluent types.

And the consumers are so far removed from the farm, and food in general, that they slurp up that advertising gimmick hook line and sinker.

As have you.

That?s fine, pendulums always swing.

Folks will come back to be center, and realize the organic hype is just that, hype, and what is good healthy food is stuff that is less processed, made from good healthy stuff off the farm. Organic is really meaningless, science can help us and can be good for us but we can?t focus on super cheap, super sugar salt fat food. We need to focus on good food.

The mid 20s age group is already coming around to that, and leaving your ideas in the dust.

It?s good that people care about their food, and their health, and eating good food.

The whole organic movement had good intentions but derailed itself down a silly avenue that is meaningless.

Expletive will get back tot he basics, and get over the hype of advertising many fell for.

It will be ok, there will probably always be a small nitche market for garden growers like to to peddle your stuff.

Farmers and bulk grains are bott he problem in our society.

Using those bulk grains (and veggies)to create poor mush is the problem.

Organic is beside the point.

People will realize that eventually.

Heck in 75 years they will forget and again be on a trend of cheap, fat, salty, sweet processed foods.... so it goes.

We know better, most of us, even as we do it.

Way back when I started my day before school with a bowl of Quisp. Little puffs of some processed fluffed grain that was probably 40% sugar..... my life would not be any better if it had been organic Quisp. Might be better if it was less processed, less sugar, regular grain.

It isn?t if it is organic or not. That?s a pointless advertising gimmick.

Paul

OK with everything you just said? Do you have irrefutable proof of it? If not it's your opinion. If you do? Call Bayer. I'm sure they will hire you in a heartbeat to work on their defense team.

Just like the claim that the jurors made those findings based solely on emotions and no facts. Guess what? The lawyers for the plaintiff had scientist and others who testified against Bayer and Roundup. They were cross examined by the Bayer lawyers. They the Bayer lawyers presented their experts. They in turn were crossed examined by the plaintiff's lawyers. The jury then decided that the experts presented by Bayer where not honest and found against Bayer. The only place I see emotion was in the size of the awards.

Now ask yourself some questions. And I'm not getting into weather GMO's are good or bad. Nor supporting or condemning Roundup. But why has Cargill seemingly been distancing itself from this stuff the last couple of years? Starting right about the time when Monsanto (very profitable company at the time) sells out to Bayer? Dumping liability on Bayer? Inquiring minds want to know? Why does anyone trust what a FOR PROFIT company tells them? Seems to me it's most often they just blindly believe when their own profits stand to improve.

Here is a question for you. If you had a tank that held enough water for you to shower. Would you let me put one drop of roundup in that tank of water before you took a shower each time? How about it I added that drop of Roundup to that tank before your wife or kids showered? Do you trust it's safety that much? How about a water tank that held a weeks worth of water for cooking, dishes and human consumption. Going to let me put a drop of roundup in that tank once a week? Stop using bottle water? If you say no then claim Roundup is safe who am I supposed to believe you?

Paul you can have your opinion of the organic food thing all you want. For the most part I agree, it's a gimmick. But my mother had company bad in the late 90's that was into organic. She ask me to get a bottle of organic milk for her. I had to drive 25 miles and the largest grocery store in Fergus Falls at the time had a 4'X6' organic food section. That's it. Now that was an upper scale grocery store too. The lower scale ones had nothing organic. Now around here? Most of the folks on a budget shop the "Super Center". We seldom go in a WalMart at all so it was a shock this winter when I was in one at the amount of space dedicated to "free range/grass fed/cage free (add whatever else) organic" stuff. It's way more than a fad. Kinda funny living in a rural area to be in a convenience at 7 AM when the young folks are stopping for coffee and snacks at work to watch young construction workers reading labels on "healthy snack bars". Talking to each other "hey you don't want that brand, may contain GMO's". We ain't talking doctors and lawyers. We are talking mechanics, plumbers, electricians, machine operators and carpenters.

I know. There goes the notion that you are your own boss. Well you never really were. The weather was. The crops were as was the livestock. Well now the consumer is too. They do away with the "renewable fuels" mandates which becomes more and more possible each day and the farmer will be totally dependent on customer demand.

Rick
 

cvphoto23092.png

Mulch tillage and no tillage are used on large amounts of U S cropland according to this chart. This data shows about 20-25 % corn planted by no till methods, possibly 40-60 % or more of soybeans planted by no till nationwide.(the soybean data is from 2012). Roundup is probably used on 80% of no till corn acres, possibly same % on no till soybean acres. We plant about 88-90 million acres of each crop, so talking use of Roundup on millions of U S cropland acres. Your estimate could be different on Roundup use but it is still significant amounts used.
 
I have been heading towards Organic this past few years, and I would not hesitate to go to cultivating row crops. My land isn?t highly erodible, and I do short rotations, never corn on corn. I don?t believe I will ever be a Certified Organic farm, the rules around Organic Dairy leave me cool.
 
I can?t really speak to government subsidies for growing crops, as our government is too broke to offer any, so we have no experience with them. I do agree that production would drop, and perhaps price would increase, there by offsetting yield loss. We as farmers can farm without Roundup, just not the way you do with Roundup.
 
(quoted from post at 08:36:04 05/14/19) I can?t really speak to government subsidies for growing crops, as our government is too broke to offer any, so we have no experience with them. I do agree that production would drop, and perhaps price would increase, there by offsetting yield loss. We as farmers can farm without Roundup, just not the way you do with Roundup.

Bruce there is no direct corn subsidy here in the US. The tax payer foots part of the crop insurance bill. The only way to make crop insurance without subsidies would make the insurance too expensive. So the government has to subsidize it to make it work. There is a back door subsidy in forced ethanol and bio usage.

Rick
 
If anybody told you that,it was the Army. The makers warned the military of the dangers,but they ignored it. Sorry for the danger that your own commanders put you in.
 
I appreciate we can have different opinions. I often find your comments very puzzling, but it?s all good. It gives an opportunity to continue educating.

Supplying good food is what it?s all about, and that?s what I do. Most of my grains go to feed livestock or to exports, but a small percent likely finds its way into non-animal foods.

Can?t help what General Mills or Heinz-Kraft or the rest do to the raw ingredients I supply them. But that is where 90% of the issues are. And I do t even blame those companies, they were producing what people wanted. Cheap, fatty, salty, sugary. The basic food drugs.......

People finally got tired of the poor quality foods but didn?t know where to turn, good of them to at least see the issues. Don?t blame them a bit for wanting a change.

Now to get them educated to turn in the right directions, and ignore the chattering internet bullies.

We are getting there. It doesn?t happen over night.

Paul
 
It's like Marge Simpson the other night on The Simpsons. She opened a store in their garage selling this fad and trendy stuff. She said "I made $1000 today,and after expenses,I made $998.". She said she sold "$50 worth of organic raspberrys" to somebody,and said "I hope she enjoys both of them.". LOL
 
That's about to change due to the tariffs,but I'm not allowed to get political. Hello 1980s and government storage. Happy days are here again.
 
Same here Bruce,but it's the whole principle and injustice of the thing. A group of people who are opposed to some practices have found a name and a product to villainize. If they accomplish their goal,they won't stop,they'll just go after something else,and the next time,it might be something that I do depend on more heavily.

Glyphosate was a Godsend for me until we managed to eradicate that scourge called quack grass because of its massive root system,but now that it's gone,fine and dandy,these other grasses can be handled with atrazine. I use glyphosate on first year corn. I plow down alfalfa sod,wait 30 days and hit it one time with Roundup. I could probably just as well clean it up with a pre emerge shot of atrazine,but Roundup is safer and more thorough.
 
Over the years I had to use round-up in my landscape business, one guy had maybe an acre of plant beds, we had to spray the weeds in then once a month or more, we use to mow 75 to 90 lawns a week, 90% of the home owners had there lawns treated once a month with weed killer, pesticides and herbicides, ect, The company's put up yellow signs warning people to stay off property for 24 hours, we've seen people open there door and let there dog out on the lawn paying no attention to the signs! I read somewhere there is more pesticides and herbicides put down on lawns than all the farm land in the U.S.!
 
I need to get to work mowing lawn at the farm and spray a little roundup along the side walk. Need to spray apple trees soon also for blight. Put some mousse on my hair to hold it down after applying after shave lotion on face to cut the sting. Chemical Pete I guess. You guys get so carried away.
 
A subsidy for US bean growers is highly likely to be announced in a few weeks if not hinted at already. Depends on if the next round of talks go in the pits in late June.
 
Well I can't prove either way and don't know how much proof these courts need ?
But something for sure is causing cancer rates to skyrocket. Really sad to see all news stories about the little kids with it. The obituaries used to mainly have old people listed now I see lots younger than 50 in there. They never list a cause though.
 
Sonny Perdue said he was looking at all options and was working on it. I'm sure corn will get more than one cent this time too. With KC wheat under four dollars,look for some there too.
 
I have been there, i have seen them make bun's for Mc Donald's just to supply the eastern part of USA, It's unreal the automation they have!
 
Guys, many of you missed a point I was trying to make which is this: no till + herbicides equals significantly less soil erosion. Soil erosion is water pollution, pure and simple. I happen to be in construction. NO ONE can till a construction site without silt fence, sediment traps, etc. It is expensive and inspected after each rain. So far, farms have been mostly exempt from this heavy handed regulation. My opinion is that if farming methods go back to more tillage, a different problem will immediately result. I am upstream from Chesapeake bay and that is the holy grail here. In a very serious way.
 
I was on the USS Saratoga CVA 60. We were off the coast in what they claimed was the safe zone.Well if we were in the safe zone. Why are so many of us dying. From the same things that is killing the guys in the zone. Plus if the stuff is harmless. Why do they claim we were in the safe zone.
 
(quoted from post at 09:14:41 05/14/19) I appreciate we can have different opinions. I often find your comments very puzzling, but it?s all good. It gives an opportunity to continue educating.

Supplying good food is what it?s all about, and that?s what I do. Most of my grains go to feed livestock or to exports, but a small percent likely finds its way into non-animal foods.

Can?t help what General Mills or Heinz-Kraft or the rest do to the raw ingredients I supply them. But that is where 90% of the issues are. And I do t even blame those companies, they were producing what people wanted. Cheap, fatty, salty, sugary. The basic food drugs.......

People finally got tired of the poor quality foods but didn?t know where to turn, good of them to at least see the issues. Don?t blame them a bit for wanting a change.

Now to get them educated to turn in the right directions, and ignore the chattering internet bullies.

We are getting there. It doesn?t happen over night.

Paul

See Paul, that's where the problem comes in. Yes people wanted cheap food. But they didn't control that at all. And with the subsidies the government jumped on anything that reduced the cost to the government. Like for example surgery foods that used corn syrup as a sweetener. So the food industry not only produced that garbage, with the help of the USDA and Department of Health convinced the buying public that all that crap was healthy. The side benefit of being cheaper? That sold many consumers all was good. After all we can trust the government watchdogs to ensure nothing bad is going to happen. And a very few people tried warning everyone. But they got no air time and Al hadn't invented the internet yet. Then in the 90's the internet came into wide spread usage. Now it was in everyone's face. All of a sudden they went from wanting safe cheap food to wanting safe food and are willing to pay that difference. The consumer lost confidence in the farmer, the AG companies, food producers and the government.

OK I may think that GMO free is good or bad. Doesn't make much of a difference. Now 2 or my daughter in laws are real picky about this stuff. Each is raising 3 of my grand kids. What are they learning? So opposed to my purchasing habits you have those 2 and 6 young children who are going to think the same thing. Drives my sister and BIL nuts too. Their youngest moved back home. He's really gotten into the whole gmo/cage free/grass fed/free range/whatever else there is thing. So he buys his own food and cooks his own meals.

You keep saying they need to educate themselves. That on your part is placing 100% trust in a for profit company. There isn't a company out there I trust 100%. Maybe you need to educate yourself as to the track records across the board of for profit companies.

No one as of yet has been able to provide me with peer reviewed studies produced by anyone with absolutely no ties with Monsanto/Bayer money. Those multiple peer reviews also has to be completely free of that money. And that goes both way. If you became obscenely wealthy tomorrow, let it be known that you didn't like GMO's then started giving the UofM several million a year I bet shortly they would release a study that nukes GMO's. I'd want to see those studies done by an independent source with not ties to any money of activist group.

Rick
 
Roundup ready is not solely responsible. Everything from better planters, better seed genetics, improved fertility programs, and better harvesting equipment has improved yeilds. Yet you lay it all at the feet of Bayer, Monsanto, and Roundup every time the subject comes up, because it doesn't fit in with your idea of the way other people farm. Well, guess what. We do not care how you think we should do it! You raise your goats, or whatever it is you raise however the heck you want to. I'll raise my corn and soybeans the way I want. What you fail to see is the big picture. They are coming for all of us, sooner or later! Today it's Roundup, tomorrow it may be some idiot decides that barbed wire is cruel, or that goats are too cute to kill! Then what are you gonna do? The point is that we are less than 2% of the population, and if we do not stand together and fight these lunatics, the are gonna pick us off, one by one!
 
It has everything to do with it when they mine for the phosphate and manufacture the chemicals In the United States
 
i love this thread. i cant shake my head enough and giggle

pass the gmo popcorn that was in a weed free field because of roundup, im here for the long haul!!
 
The thing of it is while spraying chemicals on the land is not good the alternative is greatly increased soil erosion and more fuel useage. Neither of which are good.
 
That's John Deere that has their stuff built in India these days(LOL).Fiat comes out of Europe that has stricter standards for things like paint and food crops than those in the USA
so you can rest easy.Many farm chemicals that are legal in the US are illegal over there and they are able to feed themselves just fine BTW.
 
(quoted from post at 00:26:22 05/15/19) That's John Deere that has their stuff built in India these days(LOL).Fiat comes out of Europe that has stricter standards for things like paint and food crops than those in the USA
so you can rest easy.Many farm chemicals that are legal in the US are illegal over there and they are able to feed themselves just fine BTW.


No they can't. They haven't been able to feed themselves for some time. Not enough land. They import a lot of food. And for England, Germany and other European countries? They were importing food from other countries prior to WWII. So that's not even a new problem.

OK, do farmers need to band together to fight everyone else?

Look at that for a second. You want to fight your customers? Something is really wrong with that line of thought. You think of the end user as the enemy? The end user is the customer! You are not going to get that trust back by fighting. Fighting will only serve to make the customer fight back. They have the money. There are foreign sources for food. And they have the money. You guys have convinced yourselves that the demand for cheap food is the consumers fault. Gotta have certain things to survive. Food is not optional, nor is water and Oxygen. The customer never boycotted food by a mass hunger strike demanding lower prices. They, just like YOU walk into a store, place what they need in a cart or basket and go pay whatever it is they are told to pay. The consumer is the one who is bent over the barrel. They have to take what is offered and they can afford. You reduce beef output causing prices to go up they eat less beef and more pork and chicken. But the consumer is not your enemy. Most good small business owners know that they have to cater to and take care of the customer. So if the customer demands GMO free food? Give them GMO free food! What's so hard about that? Guess what? Do what the customer wants and they are willing to pay more. Look at what the organic eaters pay for their food!

Rick
 
There are a very few that fan the flames of misinformation, and fire up minor food trends that last a few months or few years.

Agriculture in the USA is pretty stab,e and durable and long lasting. It has many layers of food supplies that we will not ever go hungry if we keep the basic framework in
place. However, we can?t, and shouldn?t, change that framework quickly. Chasing the fad of the year would be crippling to USA food supplies.

All the bizarre headlines that have come down the way the past couple decades.

Consumers aren?t the enemy, but they could be better educated.

Farmers supply raw food materials, consumers generally buy processed food from the grocery store shelf.

There seems to be a big disconnect in that middle part?

Paul

Paul
 
Many consumers have become very educated on the way food is grown and produced that is why you fellows are having problems selling them the same old Bill of Goods.Educated or
not what counts is where people choose to spend their money and the Dollar$ are going away from what you fellows are offering up more all the time.If people only wanted cheap food as you say they'd be eating dried beans and fatback 3 times a day.
 
Facebook isn?t an education. Ask just one of these highly educated people what is so bad about gmo if they really know gmo even Is without looking on their smart phone . Ask them if they know anything about the hundreds of other herbicides that are on the market besides roundup and see how smart they are .
 
Go look at fiat cnh box made in China stamped on every part on the shelf but oh that couldn?t happen John Deere has factories in India they build the cheapest tractors there to compete with the junk put out by fiat cnh the e series wouldn?t even exist if it weren?t for the fiat Belarus landini crowd or the people don?t need a tractor but want one to carry leaves and limbs to burning pile
 
As far as new tractors go I?d take a 40 year old hesston which Is fiat over probably any of the new ones no matter what color it is at lest it wouldn?t be crippled with def and other computer junk
 
Seems like you're the one been hanging out on Facebook since you know so much about it and I'll take your word for what's there I never joined up.You fellows really don't get the point, people do not have to explain or justify why they don't want to buy something.Not too hard to see why someone wouldn't want to buy and eat
food with pesticide residue in it,I sure don't.Do you season your food with pesticides? If not why not since you think they are so good for you.
 

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