3020 won't crank

I've never been on a 3020 before, trying to help widowed friend get her 3020 going, was running last year before husband died.

I turn key to on position, press in the clutch, have the tranny in "park, and then push the button but nothing happens. I think the PTO is in off position.

With a screwdriver I jumped across the starter solenoid terminals, and it cranks.

Are there some interlocks besides the clutch pedal that prevents cranking .... I don't have a schematic, but would like one if anyone has one.
Thanks
DougC

I forgot to say it's a John Deere, late 1960s, SN 78,370 .

Had one that wasn’t making a good connection on the starter, their is a piece of metal plate that acts as a ground I guess idk but it wasn’t tight I bumped it with screw driver and it sparked I tighten down on connection turned over great,

Is it a powershift or a synchro range?

Powershift has two neutral safety switches in series, on at "clutch valve" under your left heel, and one on the opposite (RH) side on the transmission shift valve.

Synchro has only ONE, in transmission case, lower on RH side, near the shift levers that the shift rods connect to.

You will find a 2-wire connector near the starter with two yellow wires, one comes from the start switch, the other goes to the starter solenoid, and the wiring harness from the one or two safety switched plugs in there.

DISCLAIMER: Do NOT proceed unless you are SURE the ignition or fuel is shut off AND the transmission is in "PARK". Proceed AT YOUR OWN RISK of running yourself over, if it should suddenly crank/start and not be in park!

If you unplug the two-wire harness and jumper the wire coming from the start switch to the wire to the starter solenoid, this takes the safety switches out of the circuit, and then try to start it from the operator's station. This will tell you whether or not the neutral safety switch(es) are at fault.

Vote two for neutral safety switch. Common problem.

jt

(quoted from post at 00:39:21 04/09/19) Vote two for neutral safety switch. Common problem.

jt

Click to expand...

ob asked if it's a Synchro Range or a Powershift, and it is A POWERSHIFT, which he says has a second safety switch on it, which I'm not sure where that is ...... QUESTION #1: is it, on the right hand side, that large flat sheet metal looking footpedal, or ?

Regarding the clutch footpedal safety switch on the left, I did put an electrical meter on those two terminals, and it was "open" before the pedal was pushed, but then "closed" when I pushed on the pedal (although the resistance was not zero, rather about 8 ohms). The terminals looked clean. I think I will do as suggested and put a jumper on this wire, just to eliminate the variable, but that may not be the issue.

QUESTION #2 -- Is there an interlock on the hand throttle? What position should it be in?

(quoted from post at 05:26:17 04/09/19)

(quoted from post at 00:39:21 04/09/19) Vote two for neutral safety switch. Common problem.

jt

Click to expand...

ob asked if it's a Synchro Range or a Powershift, and it is A POWERSHIFT, which he says has a second safety switch on it, which I'm not sure where that is ...... QUESTION #1: is it, on the right hand side, that large flat sheet metal looking footpedal, or ?

Regarding the clutch footpedal safety switch on the left, I did put an electrical meter on those two terminals, and it was "open" before the pedal was pushed, but then "closed" when I pushed on the pedal (although the resistance was not zero, rather about 8 ohms). The terminals looked clean. I think I will do as suggested and put a jumper on this wire, just to eliminate the variable, but that may not be the issue.

QUESTION #2 -- Is there an interlock on the hand throttle? What position should it be in?

Click to expand...

QUESTION #1-- "is it, on the right hand side, that large flat sheet metal looking footpedal"

That would be the foot throttle.





Transmission neutral safety switch is on RH side, shown in left image, clutch pedal neutral safety switch is below clutch pedal, shown in RH image.

Switches are in series.

"QUESTION #2 -- Is there an interlock on the hand throttle? What position should it be in?"

There's NO starting interlock on the throttle.

1/3 throttle or so is probably a good spot for the throttle at startup, NOT real critical.

If we need to go farther into the electrical system, we need the serial number.

Have you verified that both batteries are fully charged, and that the connections at the battery posts are all "clean, bight and tight"?

Throttle handle should be moved down a little. All the way up shuts off the fuel at inj pump. 2nd neutral start switch on Poweshift trans is as Bob stated is on RH side of trans attached to """shift control valve"""

(quoted from post at 06:59:32 04/09/19)
Throttle handle should be moved down a little. All the way up shuts off the fuel at inj pump. 2nd neutral start switch on Powershift trans is as Bob stated is on RH side of trans attached to """shift control valve"""

Click to expand...

Bob and Jim: Thank you for your details and photos and your patience .... your help WILL get me to solve this.

Full SN is T111P078370R, meaning it's a Tractor, 3020, RowCrop, Gasoline, Powershift, SN 78370, assembled at JD Tractorworks.

If either of you have access to the correct electrical schematic (not the wiring diagram, which I found at https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sidebyside/equipment/76112/referrer/navigation/pgId/186860 ), please point me to it or I can provide an email for you to send it to.

* I didn't even know there is a 2nd battery, I only saw the one on the left, near the starter. I assumed a second battery was only for a Diesel, making it 24volts due to Diesel demands. I will look for 2nd battery, but please remember that it did crank (albeit slowly) when I jumped across the starter solenoid

1) I will now put a jumper wire at the clutch interlock cable, then turn key to "on", and then push starter button
2) If that fails, then I will find the transmission neutral safety switch, and assuming there's a cable there, will add a jumper that and retry, leaving clutch interlock jumper in (one change at a time)
Then I will repost the result.
Please continue to hang in there with me, thank you

(quoted from post at 06:59:32 04/09/19)
Throttle handle should be moved down a little. All the way up shuts off the fuel at inj pump. 2nd neutral start switch on Powershift trans is as Bob stated is on RH side of trans attached to """shift control valve"""

Click to expand...

Bob and Jim: Thank you for your details and photos and your patience .... your help WILL get me to solve this.

Full SN is T111P078370R, meaning it's a Tractor, 3020, RowCrop, Gasoline, Powershift, SN 78370, assembled at JD Tractorworks.

If either of you have access to the correct electrical schematic (not the wiring diagram, which I found at https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sidebyside/equipment/76112/referrer/navigation/pgId/186860 ), please point me to it or I can provide an email for you to send it to.

* I didn't even know there is a 2nd battery, I only saw the one on the left, near the starter. I assumed a second battery was only for a Diesel, making it 24volts due to Diesel demands. I will look for 2nd battery, but please remember that it did crank (albeit slowly) when I jumped across the starter solenoid

1) I will now put a jumper wire at the clutch interlock cable, then turn key to "on", and then push starter button
2) If that fails, then I will find the transmission neutral safety switch, and assuming there's a cable there, will add a jumper that and retry, leaving clutch interlock jumper in (one change at a time)
Then I will repost the result.
Please continue to hang in there with me, thank you.
Doug

So this is a GAS tractor, correct? (I'm on another thread or two with DIESEL electrical system problems, and I accidentally brought that over here, sorry!)

Factory shop manual I have shows basically the same drawing you found, NO schematic.

Here's a different view of wiring at the starter and safety switches...

I have to agree. The shift pushes it in when you shove it ahead in park. There's a threaded adjustment on it to move it out toward the shift farther.

Our friends have a similar problem with a JD Gator, the dealer service man stopped by, looked at it a little, and gave up. I
stopped over and held the key in the start position and wiggled the shift lever, and it started! Some people over-complicate
problems and avoid the obvious. It's common for linkage to wear and not center up on switches. I would try that and wiggle
the PTO lever too, anything that has a safety switch is a suspect.

(quoted from post at 10:53:02 04/09/19) Our friends have a similar problem with a JD Gator, the dealer service man stopped by, looked at it a little, and gave up. I
stopped over and held the key in the start position and wiggled the shift lever, and it started! Some people over-complicate
problems and avoid the obvious. It's common for linkage to wear and not center up on switches. I would try that and wiggle
the PTO lever too, anything that has a safety switch is a suspect.

Click to expand...

" I would try that and wiggle
the PTO lever too, anything that has a safety switch is a suspect."

GOOD idea to wiggle the transmission shifter to see if it will crank.

There's NO PTO safety switch on a 3020, so there's not much to be gained by wiggling that lever, though!

This is a gas tractor. No shut off on the throttle lever (at least for my early, center console, version). No PTO shut off (but the tractor is basically a 15+ gpm hydraulic pump, if you don't have it de-stroked you don't want to be trying to swirl all of that hydraulic fluid at -20). I'd bet on the neutral safety switch.

Nothing to do with his current problem, but these guys are really prone to flooding. In the winter it's throttle all the way closed, choke out, push the choke in almost instantly (after it cranks, but before it really fires). Any more fuel and it will flood. I've got a Zenith carb, and that's what I've found.

(quoted from post at 11:00:30 04/09/19)

(quoted from post at 10:53:02 04/09/19) Our friends have a similar problem with a JD Gator, the dealer service man stopped by, looked at it a little, and gave up. I
stopped over and held the key in the start position and wiggled the shift lever, and it started! Some people over-complicate
problems and avoid the obvious. It's common for linkage to wear and not center up on switches. I would try that and wiggle
the PTO lever too, anything that has a safety switch is a suspect.

Click to expand...

" I would try that and wiggle
the PTO lever too, anything that has a safety switch is a suspect."

GOOD idea to wiggle the transmission shifter to see if it will crank.

There's NO PTO safety switch on a 3020, so there's not much to be gained by wiggling that lever, though!

Click to expand...

OK, here's the update, I returned to the tractor (10 miles from here):
1) jumpered the clutch interlock, made no difference, still no cranking
2) Looked for second battery (none) and looked for transmission neutral safety switch on right side, and found none (likely exists only on Diesel like Bob later said)
3) Put jumper cables on battery, just to get 14.7volts, at tractor instead of the 12.2volts battery was reading (no load)..... made no difference.
4) Decided to open up the steel electrical panel that holds the key, headlight switch, push button switch, etc. After that panel was tilted down/moved, tried it again, and now it cranked, had working gauges, and headlights worked .... so obviously there is a poor/intermittent connection there somewhere .... will deal with that later if necessary
5) Tried to start it. It cranked at fair rpm for 5 seconds, then slowed to almost no cranking, within 10-15 seconds. I waited between attempts, letting battery charge a bit, and made about 4 attempts, with no firing.
6) To isolate the problem between gas and spark, I poured gas down air cleaner tube. After couple start attempts had one "pop". After waiting longer for more battery recovery, it started. Hurray. Battery date code says November 2012 ...... will replace that very soon.
7) Now I have 3 new questions:
QUESTION #1: [b:d99e210638]What is that foot pedal lever on the floor pan, right side, just behind a person's foot? [/b:d99e210638] I pushed it down and could hear something change, had to lift it back up by hand. Might it be a differential lock or something?
QUESTION #2: The loader two levers don't do anything with the loader. Loader won't raise or dump. Absolutely no sound difference when I move those levers.[b:d99e210638] Is there a hydraulic system on/off control somewhere? [/b:d99e210638]I did not check hydraulic fluid level, yet. The 3 point works.
QUESTION #3: On the left and on the right of the "dash", there is a large lever .... [b:d99e210638]what are those two levers for?[/b:d99e210638]

Thank you
DougC

(quoted from post at 09:30:42 04/09/19) I have to agree. The shift pushes it in when you shove it ahead in park. There's a threaded adjustment on it to move it out toward the shift farther.

Click to expand...

On powershift trans operator must pull gearshift lever down & to the right to engage in park position on shifter. IIRC engine will also start in neutral.

7) Now I have 3 new questions:
QUESTION #1: What is that foot pedal lever on the floor pan, right side, just behind a person's foot? I pushed it down and could hear something change, had to lift it back up by hand. Might it be a differential lock or something?

[i:654c4848f0] Yes, it's a diff lock. It should come back up when you push either or both brakes (probably only if tractor is running, but that's a guess) [/i:654c4848f0]

QUESTION #2: The loader two levers don't do anything with the loader. Loader won't raise or dump. Absolutely no sound difference when I move those levers. Is there a hydraulic system on/off control somewhere? I did not check hydraulic fluid level, yet. The 3 point works.

[i:654c4848f0] Should check level, but if 3 point and steering work you have hydraulic pressure. If the loader is plumbed in from the rear SVC, the answer has to do with your next question. If it's plumbed in properly from below the brake pedals I'm not sure [/i:654c4848f0]

QUESTION #3: On the left and on the right of the "dash", there is a large lever .... what are those two levers for?

[i:654c4848f0] On the early 3020, the lever coming up from the floor on the right is the PTO. The lever immediately to the left of the steering is the 3-point, which you've already found. On my (center console w/ 2 SVC) I've got two smaller levers to the left of the 3-pt lever to control the SVCs. I hope I'm using the right acronym, by SVC I mean the hydaulic ports off of the back of the tractor. If your loader is plumbed to these, the corresponding lever needs to be towards the rear to power that hydraulic port in order for the loader controls to work. If you have a later "side console" 3020 I'm not familiar w/ the layout, but one of those levers will control the SVC that your loader may (or may not) be plumbed into.[/i:654c4848f0]

BTW, JD is very proud of those suitcase batteries. I moved mine and put a real battery next to the starter. If you're looking to sell it check Runnings and TSC, etc. Recently I've seen the suitcase batteries in those places with higher cranking amps than stock and still considerably less expensive than a JD dealer. They started showing up the year after I moved my battery...

Bob : Thanks for the battery tips.

Can you help answer any of the 3 questions I listed?

DougC

Can you see my post today at 9:54?

(quoted from post at 14:31:25 04/09/19) Bob : Thanks for the battery tips.

Can you help answer any of the 3 questions I listed?

DougC

Click to expand...

Lever on LH outside of dash on tractor with powershift trans is damper clutch disconnect lever. Pull lever back to disconnect engine from trans input shaft for easier cold weather engine starting. One must pull knob on front cowling that hold ign switch to unlatch handle to move lever forward.

(quoted from post at 14:49:13 04/09/19)

(quoted from post at 14:31:25 04/09/19) Bob : Thanks for the battery tips.

Can you help answer any of the 3 questions I listed?

DougC

Click to expand...

Lever on LH outside of dash on tractor with powershift trans is damper clutch disconnect lever. Pull lever back to disconnect engine from trans input shaft for easier cold weather engine starting. One must pull knob on front cowling that hold ign switch to unlatch handle to move lever forward.

Click to expand...

For that LH large lever, it wouldn't move. I wondered what that spring-loaded knob was for, now you've enlightened me ..... thank you. How about the RH side lever, is that for the PTO?

Regarding the plumbing of the hydraulic hoses for the loader two control valve levers, I will have to look more closely. But they do NOT go to the rear of the tractor, as I recall. I was thinking they "disappeared" up under the hood, high up in front of the "dash" , but not sure that makes any sense. Will check it out next week when I go back. Thanks again. Doug

Disconnect lever could be rusted in place. Lever on RH outside of dash is pto control as you stated. FEL control valve supply/return hoses could be attached under hood as you stated.

(quoted from post at 04:48:44 04/10/19)
Disconnect lever could be rusted in place. Lever on RH outside of dash is pto control as you stated. FEL control valve supply/return hoses could be attached under hood as you stated.

Click to expand...

Thank you Jim. I returned to the tractor yesterday, replaced battery, so now starts/runs OK. John's widow found the tractor operator's manual, so am reading that, and it showed where hydraulic dipstick and fill place was. The level was down to the bottom of the "Safe" line, so I added a gallon of hydraulic fluid, bringing it to the full line.[b:73c6a53a11] Loader and 3 point hydraulics still not working [/b:73c6a53a11](I had previously reported 3 point was moving, but I think it only lowered). The dash gauge shows good transmission pressures. So what am I missing, that I can't get hydraulic system to work at all?

I did see in the operators manual page 8, a dealer installable option of a hydraulic pump shutoff screw, somewhere near the bottom of the fuel tank .... I haven't found the location to see whether it exists on this tractor, and is then open or closed.

Ideas? Thank you

Hydraulic problem solved. On the left side of the dash are 3 levers. One is for the 3 point, the other two are supposedly for rear remote hydraulic outlets. But the tractor has only one rear hose outlet pair. The control valves on the loader frame has the supply return hoses going up under the hood somewhere. It turns out the left most hand dash lever has to be pushed up/forward and "locked" in that position, then I have loader hydraulic working. No where in the Operator Manual does it reference that, and no one on line, or the half dozen people I talked to apparently knew that or told me.

So the problem did turn out, as I initially suspected, to simply be "I didn't know what I was doing, and it was simple" ..... nothing was broken.

Thanks for update. I've never seen or heard of loader control valve attached directly to SCV bypassing rear breakaway coupler & there's a much much better way to supply & return hyd oil to loader control valve for loader operation. See photos below.

1st photo is pressure attachment connection.



2nd photo is return oil connection

(quoted from post at 05:20:55 04/27/19)
Thanks for update. I've never seen or heard of loader control valve attached directly to SCV bypassing rear breakaway coupler & there's a much much better way to supply & return hyd oil to loader control valve for loader operation. See photos below.

1st photo is pressure attachment connection.

2nd photo is return oil connection

Click to expand...

Of course for this "tractor of a friend" (78 year old widow, she doesn't even know how to drive it), it isn't something that will get used more than a couple times a year, for 2-4 years, then sold, so I won't be working on it any more than needed to keep her happy, and her memories alive.