Propane v. electricity for heat in shop

coshoo · Mar 7, 2019

Going to enclose a 24 X 35 foot section of shop, 8 foot ceiling, walls and ceiling with as much insulation as I can get in a 2 x 6 stud, no windows. Its inside an existing pole barn, so no rain or snow on the roof. Trying to decide on electric v. propane for heat. Got some good info on BTU's per gallon of propane (92,000), but how many BTU's per kilowatt of electricity? Disregard the juice needed to blow it around- that's going to be pretty similar with both heat sources, so can be disregarded. I've got pretty cheap electricity- about 6 cents a kilowatt. But can't really make a decision without being able to compare apples to apples. Another factor, if its helpful- will keep the place at 45 degrees night and day, and only crank it up to 65 when I'm working out there. Ambient outdoor temp. in winter is usually about 40 degrees, although it has been closer to 32 this winter (climate change, dontcha know).

Any help appreciated.

Bob Harvey · Mar 7, 2019

Have a look at Daikin heat exchanger system. Not inexpensive, but very energy efficient. C/W A/c. Cut my house Hydro cost from $185 per mo. to $70.

JOCCO · Mar 7, 2019

Very happy with my propane. For farm shop electricity is too costly. You may have to fill in summer to cut cost. No mess I got rid of wood heat.

Willow Lane · Mar 7, 2019

3413 BTU/KWH, not sure on what you expect for efficiency on propane but figure electric at 100%

moresmoke · Mar 7, 2019

I have a 20x40x12 shop. Built out of an old granary. 2x6 studs on 12? spacing. Walls are filled with blown in fiberglass. And about 18? of blown glass on the ceiling. I have a Mr Heater Big Maxx 80k btu hanging propane furnace. Plenty of heat to keep it warm,but you do notice if you bring in cold iron in the middle of winter. I go through just about one 500 gal tank of propane a year.

Location is ND so it ain?t warm outside. If I am around and using the space I keep it at 50-55. If I am not around, drop it to 40. Can easily heat it up more if I need it (painting, etc).

I opted for propane over electric as I only had a 100 amp service to the building, and didn?t figure I could run electric heat and work on anything at the same time.

Bill in IL · Mar 7, 2019

There are calculators out there for comparing gas to electric.

In general for my area?s rates propane is about half the cost of electric resistance heat.

The only way electric heat can come out ahead is on a heat pump or geothermal.

redforlife · Mar 7, 2019

I would venture to guess your cheapest way to go would be propane. Especially with a ventless stove. If you don't have plumbing to keep thawed out, I would turn the heat on and off according to when you are there. And not be turning it up and down.

JMOR · Mar 7, 2019

(quoted from post at 20:02:55 03/07/19) 3413 BTU/KWH, not sure on what you expect for efficiency on propane but figure electric at 100%

ropane efficiency about 80% typical vented furnace. Super high efficiency that can be vented thru PVC will be into 90s.

2510Paul · Mar 7, 2019

I would suggest propane and vented heater. You don't want the heater exhaust in your work space.

One additional thought that may seem counter to this discussion, I would also suggest you put an exhaust fan in the wall for those times the air is full of dust, paint or sealing fumes, tractor exhaust, welding, or just plain other volatiles. I have a shed full of tractors and I find I feel better the next day if I ventilate a little before I turn the heat up. My shed is very tight.

Paul

old-9 · Mar 7, 2019

These radiant overhead tube heaters have been around for a while and are very good. joe
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C.Amick · Mar 7, 2019

Propane is likely cheaper. How high is your ceiling? If you have a concrete floor, you might want to look into propane fired infrared heaters. They would hang overhead and heat up the floor.

504 · Mar 7, 2019

Propane is hard to beat for cost. Per buy your LP in the summer(prepay for later delivery) I have been around tow shops with hanging LP heaters and was happy with both. We switched where I work now from hanging (worn out)to tube heaters.Low ceilings they are bad, and in our warehouse with 20 foot ceilings they are garbage. Someone opens a door and the heat comes on and you sweat, you turn it down then you freeze. This is our second winter with tube heaters(two) and I will never recommend them to anyone I like.

SEArk · Mar 7, 2019

a heat pump is a lot cheaper to run in mild climate than propane but would cost more to install,but you would also have air conditioning in summer. put in a 2'' pleated filter to keep what ever clean. If I remember correctly 1 KW equals 1000 BTU on electric heat, normally to expensive.

leroy in ne · Mar 7, 2019

504 these may not be set up right. I have been around 2 buildings with radiant tube heaters that did not work right. Pretty much as you said. 1 was in volunteer fire barn, the other a truck repair shop. The first winter of not being able to regulate either with thermostats to maintain reasonable heat levels with wide swings led owners to find out the wrong type of thermostats were being used. I believe it had to do with anticipation function in thermostat or something like that. I would suggest doing a little research, possibly the only thing needed is installation/owners manual.

jeffcat · Mar 7, 2019

Gas, lp, propane, even oil heat. My dad had a wood stove for the longest time in the shop. His oil heat company gave him a middle of the summer "super " deal on a new oil heater. He had them install the old one from the house out in the shop. Just flip the switch and within 10 minutes that thing makes the whole shop super toasty. Stay away from electric unless you have a well Insulated and air tight shop.

WGM · Mar 7, 2019

Wrong!
1 kw = 3413 btu?s

coshoo · Mar 8, 2019

Thanks for all the help. I did the math, and with our cheap electricity, it beats propane by about 20% for cost. But I think I'll still go with propane, because my electric service will be stretched to the point that I'll have to turn off the heat whenever I weld, etc. Might look into ductless heat pump, though, if I can find one used and cheap.

I'm in Washington, and got a kick out of a politician saying our state can be 80% "clean" energy by 2030. I'm thinking everybody could, if they just had a Columbia River flowing through their state.

Geo-TH,In · Mar 8, 2019

Do the math, a heat pump will never pay for itself and you will be lucky if it works when temps get below a certain level.

I would add 3/4 extruded urethane ,R5, with metal foil on both sides to exterior walls before you cover the insulation. The metal foil blocks radiant heat loss.

I have a 24x24 attached garage. Only need a 1500 w baseboard heater. The garage stays between 45-50 and uses very little electricity. Baseboard heat requires very little maintenance.

Mike M · Mar 8, 2019

I too have a Mr. Heater Big Maxx hanging heater. Lp and it power vents to the outside. Had it many years and so far like it. In a shop you want your heater up off the floor because gas fumes will hover around the 2 feet level IIRC ?

Texasmark1 · Mar 8, 2019

I have a 24 x 24 x 8 ft ceiling, insulated, conventional frame construction "man cave", hobby room in the house I occupy when the weather keeps me indoors, out of the shop. Was using propane non vented radiant type wall heater. It broke so I thought about using electricity and did......in short, bad decision,,,,pricy.

Next season back to propane but went with Blue Flame non radiant as it heats the air in the room, not things and worked better, with a reversed direction, ceiling fan on low to keep things stirred up. Mounted a small,through wall, exhaust fan and when I feel the need which depends on weather and amount of usage, turn it on for a few minutes. Seems to do ok.

Can't help you with the ceiling units used for large work areas.

Mashbox · Mar 8, 2019

(quoted from post at 00:29:44 03/08/19) Have a look at Daikin heat exchanger system. Not inexpensive, but very energy efficient. C/W A/c. Cut my house Hydro cost from $185 per mo. to $70.

Like Bob said, take a look at a mini-split unit that will give both heat and A/C. I installed one to condition the air in a 20' x 28' addition to my house. Unlike a conventional heat pump, these units work at much colder outdoor temps, and seems to be warmer the colder it is outside. The thermostat is a wireless remote that hangs in a wall mounted holder.

The unit I installed years ago is a Mitshubishi, and only requires a 15 amp 240 volt circuit for the complete system. Very low opersating cost. I build a bracket and wall mounted the outdoor unit to keep it above snow level.

Mashbox · Mar 8, 2019

(quoted from post at 00:29:44 03/08/19) Have a look at Daikin heat exchanger system. Not inexpensive, but very energy efficient. C/W A/c. Cut my house Hydro cost from $185 per mo. to $70.

Like Bob said, take a look at a mini-split unit that will give both heat and A/C. I installed one to condition the air in a 20' x 28' addition to my house. Unlike a conventional heat pump, these units work at much colder outdoor temps, and seems to be warmer the colder it is outside. The thermostat is a wireless remote that hangs in a wall mounted holder.

The unit I installed years ago is a Mitshubishi, and only requires a 15 amp 240 volt circuit for the complete system. Very low opersating cost. I build a bracket and wall mounted the outdoor unit to keep it above snow level.

Jeremy in DE · Mar 8, 2019

(quoted from post at 08:19:04 03/08/19) Thanks for all the help. I did the math, and with our cheap electricity, it beats propane by about 20% for cost. But I think I'll still go with propane

I'm glad you did the math. And your conclusions are good ones even after doing the math because there are other factors than per BTU cost.

It's a small annoyance to me when people say something like "electric heat is expensive". Well.... that depends what you pay for electricity and that varies considerably by location-- and it depends on what the alternative costs, and that varies considerably by location as well.

It's always good to do the math. (For me electricity just squeaks better than propane per BTU.)

KL in Wi · Mar 8, 2019

I have a 42 x 32 shop and its heated with an infrared (tube) heater. One tube runs the width of the shop. I wouldn't have anything else. Heats fast with fast recovery if you open the overhead door. It heats the floor and everything else in the shop. It's nice not to have to wear snowmobile boots to keep your feet warm like other shops that I've been in with forced air heating. If the guy who installs it doesn't know how to do it correctly, it can be a real disappointment. That was my problem at first. Then I found a guy who knew what he was doing and I have been happy ever since. Only problem in ten years was this year I had to replace the gas valve. You do have to keep the reflectors clean or the heat doesn't radiant very well.

Texasmark1 · Mar 8, 2019

Propane $1.95/gallon, electricity, $0.114/kWH

Crazy Horse · Mar 8, 2019

One of the posts below mentioned electrical heat efficiency being close to 100% ..... he is correct but you have to factor in other things like the efficiency of the original source of energy along with getting it to your property. Someone still has to pay for that energy loss and you know who that is ...... here is some info from a government website that explains it all nicely ....

Electric resistance heating is 100% energy efficient in the sense that all the incoming electric energy is converted to heat. However, most electricity is produced from coal, gas, or oil generators that convert only about 30% of the fuel's energy into electricity. Because of electricity generation and transmission losses, electric heat is often more expensive than heat produced in homes or businesses that use combustion appliances, such as natural gas, propane, and oil furnaces.

moresmoke · Mar 8, 2019

If the OP pays 6 cents for electricity, the only less he is concerned with is between the meter and the heater.

Affordability all comes to your local prices. I have done this math for myself, and propane and electric resistance come out about even. My Mom pays 5 times as much for electricity as I do. Propane is 2.5 time as much. Makes oil cheaper.

carpenter · Mar 8, 2019

You must be in a pretty mild climate area. You don't need much heat compared to me
in Minnesota and Wisconsin. I have done what you are planning a couple times and it
is so much better and faster and easier than using the existing outside walls.

You did not ask but the most important part is make it air tight.
So a simple way is sill seal and or lots of quaking under the walls.
Wall and ceiling sheathing such as OSB or Sheetrock. Tyvek or tape it.
Air tight. Than insulation and sheetrock and tape it again it again on the inside. Will it have an over head door?
Get a good tight overhead insulated overhead door if you are planning one.
This is more important than the heat source. Use resistant electric or better yet a heat pump. Minnie split.
Than you will have ac. If it is 40 outside and you only want it with 45 inside it will be fine if you
leave the lights on. lol.

PJH · Mar 8, 2019

Electricity doesn't experience the wild price swings and other monkey business that were related to propane just a short time ago.

Crazy Horse · Mar 8, 2019

Moresmoke ...... well the article I quoted from was just making the point that don't think that anything is totally efficient, and if it appears to be then you still have to pay for the parts of the system that aren't. The only thing that any of us really care about is cost, whether cost of the fuel or the cost of getting it to your house or shop. On an individual basis, nothing else matters. If it was all free of cost, then we'd never even be talking about it here on YT.

Destroked 450 · Mar 8, 2019

I have a small 24x28 with 12ft ceiling work shop on the end of my tool shed, it's well insulated, we also live in a area with low electric rates.
Our energy use for our all electric home is slightly less than moms all propane house with us with 300 more square ft of living space.
I installed a large window heat and air unit, 21,000 btu AC, 14,000 btu heat. the heater will maintain heat in the shop but takes a long time to recover after the door have been opened, a wall mounted propane fueled ventless radiant heater helps with heat recovery and serves as a backup heater should we have a power failure.

Propane v. electricity for heat in shop

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