Another skill lost of youth

I had a water line break and wanted to dig back before that branch and cap it for the winter. Before I started the skid steer I got out my copper and witched the line. The high school kid that helps me was rather surprised when it was in the middle of the hole I dug with the backhoe attachment. My mom could witch water and I?ve always witched water and power lines but no one else in the family. I?m not sure that it?s a skill that will be passed on with new technology.

An acquaintance that works for the nearby town witches all of the utilities for them. Never wrong a day in his life. I?m not sure that kind of magic would hold up in a big city utility company.

I can find septic tanks, but not much good with anything else. I?m pretty sure I know what that means.

After seeing what happened to little joe I don?t dare try it

Untitled URL Link

I can witch but my dad can’t. If I know the general vicinity of a tile or water line or cable I can be accurate using a bent wire or wires. If I’m walking across a field trying to find a tile I get too many false readings. In one field I was witching, the wires would cross every 20 feet as I walked and I knew there wasn’t a tile every 20 feet. One bent wire works as well as two wires. One thing I have never understood is why does the wire always cross my body instead of pointing out?

I can, may dad could, and his grandfather could

Water witching has always fascinated me but I've never been able to get any results myself. I've known a few people that do. The bent wires, or even a couple of willow sticks. One guy can carry a crowbar or pitchfork and have it react when he is over a likely spot for water. Not me.

Not sure how big of copper you used but I learned from the old town maintenance man. He had two copper rods 3/8 inch solid diameter about 3 feet long with a short 90 degree bend on the end. Held the rods out loosely in each hand and he showed me when they crossed water lines with water flow one way and when they spread out water flowed the other way. Don't remember which was which but I did it. Haven't done it in years though. I think about it every time I see the surveyors out with their electronics. I think we even got one water line down 15-16 feet. Good to know people still do it.

I can witch water lines and that is about it. Five years ago we had a 80 year old neighbor lady try to witch a well for my house. Claimed she has never been wrong. Guess what, she was wrong on the well she witched for us. Never did tell her since she was a nice lady.

A few years ago I needed to find a water line to unhook it. I rented a battery powered pipe finder to find it. So out of curiosity I grabbed a couple of marking flags. I took the flags off and bent the wires. I was amazed how when I walked over the line the wires crossed. When I walked away the wires went back straight. Since then I bought a backhoe to add short laterals on some tile and I have been able to find the buried lines very easily.

I can witch. I can put my hand on a persons shoulder that can not and most times they will be able to from that point on.

I played around with it a few times when I was a kid.

Two copper rods bent a little over 90*, the pivot ends stuck down in 2 Coke bottles.

I could walk across the yard where I knew the approximate location of the water, gas, and lateral lines were, and sure enough, they would cross!

Neighbors up the road were having terraces and water way tuned up by local dozer operator. The water way was parallel and next to the county road. Several old guys who had been on the water dept. forever came out to check location of water main as no one could remember which side of the road it was on. After some witching on both sides they all agreed that the water line was on the opposite side of the road in a pasture. Dozer operator goes to work and inside of 15 minutes cuts the water main in two! Oops.......wrong side!

I have a friend who can witch water and underground phone and power lines. He drills wells by trade.

The one person I knew that claimed he could do it when time came to do it he could not.

I have done it many times, problem is, if it is a old buried log or piece of pipe it registers also.
Knew a kid that bought salvage rights of clear cuts in the woods, He would witch buried cedar logs, cut bolts, and got rich!

My wife can do it too, it's a talent!

I?m 30 years old and do it at least once a week for the municipality I work for. I?m not always right but unless it in the road I can usually tell by difference in grass color or settled dips in the ditch line that never got filled. Been teaching a high school boy that helps us in the afternoons and he?s getting pretty good. Thought I was messing with him the first time I showed him. Actually spent about 6 hours this week looking for one that I couldn?t find. Map said it was on the edge of the road and it was brand new black top. Was going to bore in a service but by the time I found it in the center of the road just went ahead and dug across. I think you would be surprised how much witching has been passed down to younger people at least in my neck of the woods but there are about 10 very large utility contractors in about a 15 mile radius of us and a lot of young guys that don?t work for them work for miller pipeline.

I can find things buried in the ground, but I can't tell you whats down there.

Tall Kid can witch we were looking for buried water line he found it

I witched a well once by the barn and was also wrong. About five years later I trenched in water lines to the barn for water. I cut right through 220 wire (shut off) that the oil guys had laid when there was an active well there years ago - capped since I?ve owned this farm. I realize now it was probably those I was getting when I witched. That?s what I tell myself at least.

I?ve never had the occasion since then to witch anything but water lines but have been right every time. Granted, I only do it every year or two so my odds improve greatly. I thought it was total hooey until I did it. You could have knocked me over when those wires crossed in my hand. There is a distinct pull you can?t stop once you cross a water line. It?s bizarre.

I just use about 18 inches of copper ground wire out of regular 110 wiring - no insulation. They are bent
in the middle at a 90 degree angle. I plant my elbows on my hips with my arms straight out in front of me
like I?m driving an old swather. I hold the copper loosely in my hand - enough so that they will blow in the
breeze. They point straight forward. When I cross a line they both spin toward each other and line up
together so that they are parallel with the water line below them. If I keep walking they will keep spinning
backward until they touch my shirt.

I can find any line any where any time all I have to do is go to dig a ditch stick the bucket in the ground and BAM there it is. I can be in the middle of my pasture 1000 feet from anything put my bucket in the ground and BAM there is another one. My wife says I am cursed

My sister is a witch, born on Halloween, can?t find underground water lines though

My uncle was a dowser, went to meetings and all. I have pretty good results myself. A good story....some years back I was dating a girl and mentioned dowsing, I cut a large forked stick and held one side, she held the other and we held hands. I walked over an area where I had a reaction, when we walked over the vein the stick bent down and even swung around behind us, she screamed let go of the stick and that was her one and only dowsing experience

They sense disturbed ground. It works great if you know a line was buried there somewhere. You can dig a trench and back fill it with no pipe in it and it will find it. Good luck finding a line that was directionally bored 10' deep witching it.

No need to worry about losing something that doesn't exist.

For over 50 years, James Randi had a standing offer to pay a cash prize to anyone who could demonstrate paranormal activity. That included dowsing. NOBODY claimed that prize, even though it eventually was raised to one million dollars. That's proof enough for me that dowsing is a myth.
James Randi Challenge

My ex-wife is a witch.



She and my ex-husband-in-law have a daughter born on Halloween.

Anyone can witch for water (unless you couldn't hold the copper wires). Now, whether or not you can find water is another thing. Just one of thousands of hocus pocus things that man has invented somehow through the years.

(quoted from post at 19:35:59 03/02/19)

An acquaintance that works for the nearby town witches all of the utilities for them. Never wrong a day in his life. I?m not sure that kind of magic would hold up in a big city utility company.

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First time I saw it done was about 40 years ago when they brought rural water to the area. I was home when an old guy drove up to the house and told me he was there to locate the utility lines prior to them coming in to trench in the water line. So he pulls out two brazing rods and goes at it. Watching the rods cross was a shock. He had me try it and it worked for me too. And BTW, he was spot on.

Fast forward to last year.....I want to do some drainage work and need to find all the buried lines where I live now. Water, electric, etc. So I call the state's "Dig Rite" number and they inform me they will only locate lines to the meters. Beyond that, it's my problem.

So flashback to my younger days, I go find a couple coat hangers.....straighten them out, leave a short 90 degree bend and go to it. Sure enough, wires cross right where I know the lines should be. Water line, gas line, electric line, sewer line, drain tile line....all of them. Walked over a low electric fence and it crossed there too.

Having too much fun, I know there is a buried electric wire that runs down to a wooded area where previous owner wanted to put in some kind of shelter house / park thing. The end of the wire sticks out of the ground, just not sure where it runs to get there. So I go looking for it too......and nothing.....can't find it anywhere....so I give up and go back to looking for the other wires. Suddenly, nothing there either. Where 10 minutes before, wires would cross......and where I had flagged them......now nothing. Not even a twitch.

Wait a few days, try it again and now its back to working.

Stranger than science.

Do people learn dowsing or do you just have to be born with it? How is dowsing taught to others?

Saw some folks in the graveyard of this old church that our son restored in our community a few years ago. Were putting flags out. I turned around and went back to see what they were doing. Lady said she had some ancestors buried there and a fellow was witching with wires to find unmarked graves.
They had marked a bunch of places.
Richard in NW SC

I wouldn't call it hocus pocus. We had a local man and his son that could do it. His other sons could not. I remember as a kid watching him find water. Where everyone said there was none. He always said it did not work all the time. You had to have a feel for the land. If the feel was not there. There was no water. As my dad said never dismiss what you don't understand.

From what I was taught as a kid. You had to have the feel for it. There was a local guy and his son that could do it. His other three sons couldn't find water in a lake.

(quoted from post at 08:01:50 03/03/19) From what I was taught as a kid. You had to have the feel for it. There was a local guy and his son that could do it. His other three sons couldn't find water in a lake.

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I think there may be a difference between dousing for underground water for wells and "witching" for buried lines. I've never tried looking for water for a well.

I'm convinced there is some type of magnetic field what sets up in buried lines........like magnetic north and south. Have heard some say the electric lines must be hot to find them for example.....but that doesn't explain finding buried sewer lines.

Again, stranger than science.

> Lady said she had some ancestors buried there and a fellow was witching with wires to find unmarked graves.

So...in other words, they were planting flags in random spots around the cemetery.

I used to sell and set LP tanks. It's easy to do. I had to find phone lines, water lines, underground electric cables. It never failed.

I have done this for many years. I use 6 ga.wire about 18 to 20 inches Long and bend down about 6 inches for a handle. It will locate wire, from water line to drain line to culverts. You have to believe it for it to work. It won't work for a lot of folks. I have dug a few empty holes and after a little while I would look up and see a overhead line. So it will locate above and below ground. It helps to have a general idea where thing are so you know what you are looking for.

I have been told i was the best at finding water out in open fields. Found 3 large lakes one week last fall with my buddy's combine....

(quoted from post at 06:57:04 03/03/19) Do people learn dowsing or do you just have to be born with it? How is dowsing taught to others?

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For finding water lines, electric lines, etc, it is no more complicated than this.....and in case you missed it.......hold the rods loosely. they have to be free to swing back and forth. Hold them mostly level.....end tips of the rods maybe just a few degrees below level so they will stay straight out.....but not so much that the rods have to overcome any significant degree of gravity to rotate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW_xDXDtDmc

Try it!

soceery, soothsayers and occult activities are not approved of by the Bible .

Evidently utility companies routinely use underground pipe and cable detectors. I am pasting a link below for detectors that can locate lines up to 10 feet underground.

I believe that it is a logical mistake to assume that any phenomenon that science cannot currently fully explain must be based on witchcraft or the occult. It could be that brass or copper rods are Just a more crude version of the technology that the commercially manufactured equipment uses.
Underground pipe and cable detectors

> I believe that it is a logical mistake to assume that any phenomenon that science cannot currently fully explain must be based on witchcraft or the occult.

Those devices are over two grand. Why would utility location companies waste their money on them if dowsing actually works? I'll also note that these are not passive devices: they use a transmitter to inject a single into a conductive line which is detected by a receiver unit, so it's a huge stretch to say dowsing uses the same "technology".

Before you make the claim that "science cannot explain" a "phenomenon", the burden of proof is on you to establish that the phenomenon actually exists! And every time a self-professed dowser is asked to demonstrate their ability in a controlled test, they fail miserably. Asking "how does dowsing work?" is akin to asking "why is the moon made of green cheese?"; the premise itself is false.

I believe that the high dollar equipment is more precise as far as location and the specs state that it also gives a depth reading which is within 10% accurate. Knowing the approximate depth is an advantage that would pay the cost of the instrumentation in a few uses. I did not believe that the brass rod method of locating pipes worked until I had clogged septic field years ago. I called an experienced plumber who was able to find the distribution box and all of the laterals using ell shaped brass rods. I tried using the rods and they deflected at the same locations for me as they did for him. I put zero credibility on any mind over matter theory. However I and about half of the other posters have been convinced through personal experience that the brass or copper rod method works to locate underground pipes. If something works for my purposes, I will continue to use that technology or method. Note that I stated that the brass rod method "could be"a more crude version of the high dollar technology. I believe that There is a physics principle behind the brass rod locating method. I certainly respect the opinion of those who do not believe that the method works. This subject will never be resolved on an internet forum. It is interesting that the method continues to be widely practiced if it is a consistent failure.

The most extensive scientific dowsing study that I have found was done by the university of Munich. See the link below. It is very interesting reading. Under controlled double blind testing conditions administered by a team of 14 scientists, many individuals were given a chance to demonstrate their abilities. Some only had no more than statiscally random success rates, others had enough success that the chances of randomly achieving their results varied from 1/500 to 1/1700. You will need to download the entire p d f file from the scientific exploration journal. The study results do not claim to answer all questions about this phenomenon, however it is very interesting reading and has a favorable conclusion towards dowsing by individuals with demonstrated success rates. If there is any other scientific study of comparable extent and quality done on this subject I would be interested in reading it also.
University of Munich Unconventional Water Detection Study

Never heard of using copper rods. All I've ever seen used are those steel wire marker flags, stripped of the flag and bent into an L shape. Worst case, some baling wire straightened out and folded into L's.

If it works for you, you don't need to hold them "loose." You can't hold them tight enough to keep them from pivoting. One time Dad found a tile line with the wires, marked where it was. The contractor used his fancy detector next, and dug where his detector said the line was. Nothing. Dug where the wires swung. Dead-nuts on.

> The most extensive scientific dowsing study that I have found was done by the university of Munich.

It seems that critical reviewers of the Munich study don't beleive the folks who conducted it were objective, or that its conclusions are valid.

In my opinion, the James Randi Challenge pretty much debunked dowsing. If any one of the hundreds of thousands of self-professed dowsers had proven his ability to find buried objects in a CONTROLLED environment, he would have collected a cool million. A few tried, none succeeded.
The Failure of the Munich Experiments

Mark, thanks for posting that. The author of that article is a behavioral physiologist with no claimed expertise in the physical sciences. He presented his paper at the second annual skeptics conference in 1998, not in a science journal or before a scientific gathering. He does not claim to have done any empirical research on the subject. The Munich study refutes the four most common scientific objections to an empirical basis for dowsing. Professor Enright does not respond to the critique of the objections in His article. His critique of the Munich University study seems to be based on a fear that if any empirical validity can be proven for dowsing, it opens the door to a paranormal basis for the results. He also does not mention the scientific testing of the skilled dowsers results in finding actual water vein and underground river locations in arid regions in multiple locations around The world. The data from the Munich study indicate that skilled dowsers were providing more accurate locations, and predicting depth and flow rates more accurately than geotechnical test equipment using seismological testing, and long wave electromagnetic radiation detection. I don't see the relevance of his argument against the paranormal, because the Munich study offers various technical and biological theories as explanation for the success of the dowsers in the study. They don't at any point posit or support a paranormal explanation for the empirical data gathered in the study. I found the article interesting, but this opinion piece does not negate the findings of the scientists who participated in the Munich study.

The Randi foundation is chaired by the magician James Randi. It is an advocacy and grant writing foundation with two employees including Randi. They do not employ scientists. Their goal is advocacy against paranormal phenomena. They are not a technology or science research company. According to Wikipedia, the challenge ended in 2015. Since it was not administered by an independent third party scientific group, it was nothing more than a publicity stunt in my opinion.


In the article cited, Professor Enright concluded his paper with the following thought:

"Because of the vigor, however, with which Professor Betz and colleagues defended their positive conclusions (Betz et al. 1996), and in view of the discouraging history of other claims about the occult, one may have residual doubts, as do I, about whether reason will prevail in this arena (Enright 1996)."

Indeed, the German scientists involved in the Munich study intend to work with other disciplines to study the biophysical and physics phenomena involved in dowsing to create AI or algorithms which would incorporate the superior predictive capabilities of dowsers compared to current geotechnical equipment to create technology that can duplicate the dowsers success in real world geo fault and discontinuity detection which seems to be the dowser's basis for finding water in arid regions.

Maybe when technology is developed that functions competively with the best dowsers, the paranormal skeptics can relax. Or not.

The Munich study remains the most definitive scientific study on this subject. There is unlikely to be funding for any more definitive study in the near future. We can certainly have different opinions on this subject, and still respect the integrity and intelligence of those with a different view. Thanks for the discussion, Mark, and everyone else, it is very interesting and relevant to rural living.

I think when it comes to talk of witching and dousing, there are two different issues that tend to get cross threaded and lumped together and discussed together as if they are the same thing. In my mind.....they are not.

One is dousing for ground water for wells, lost coins, buried treasure, etc........I have no experience with that and could not care less........

The other is the use of bent wires to find buried water lines, electric lines, gas lines, etc. That one does seem to work....and if it does work for our needs, a whole lot cheaper than buying a $2,000 piece of equipment, which, btw, also seems to require some practice and education in order to get accurate results.

On a previous post, I put up a link to a video of a guy showing how to make his wires out of coat hangers, etc, and then went out and found some lines. I never caught it before, but towards the end of that video, he walked it over a section of empty garden hose. Got nothing. Then walked it over the same hose with it running a full stream. Wires crossed.

Hard to figure out why and all, but it would seem that there is some type of magnetic field that must set up not all that much different than magnetic north and south. What is odd about that is the rods do not have to be magnetized to work. Just have to be conductive, like steel, copper or brass. You would think some curious person with an understanding of electrical fields, and a means of measuring it with test equipment could find a way to explain it, but it seems to remain shrouded in mystery.

(quoted from post at 19:36:37 03/03/19) soceery, soothsayers and occult activities are not approved of by the Bible .

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Yea, the naysayer is here.

It seems to me that if it didn't work, there wouldn't be people all over the world and for the last several hundred years or more that say they can do it.