Diesel electric locomotives

Probably could, the large mine haul trucks in the coal mines are diesel-electric too. Really all in all pretty cool technology that?s been around for quite a long time. And in more recent history further developed with inverters and AC motors.
 
Higher initial cost and reduced efficiency (fuel economy) compared to fixed gear and power shift (planetary) transmissions.
 
It is the coming thing, the big ones are doing that already, much more efficient than hydraulics and can have traction control.
 
Doesn?t the Toyota Prius and similar cars have similar technologies? I do know in a locomotive on flat terrain it takes about 1 HP to move 1 Ton of freight .a tractor would have to be geared much lower.I?m sure it?s been looked at before
 
Well you can look at your hydrostatic lawn mower. There is always a percentage of lost energy. Even you car or truck automatic. That is why your tyranny locks up into an overdrive at speed. Almost everything mentioned has been very big equipment as were a 150 or 200hp tractor is a toy. Most likely it is on the way. We are going to see more stuff as the green crazys have their way. Mho.
 
JD just put out their info on a high tech electric tractor, no batteries just a very long cord. Had a Hugh reel on it on the front for maybe 1200 feet or so of cord, and a robot arm to keep the cord out of the way of the implement being pulled. It was an interesting pic!

Other companies, including JD, have looked into battery powered units as well in the past.

So, it is sure being looked into.

Paul
 
I can see it being used on semi's some days, probably in combination with battery power. One advantage it would have would be allowing the engine to operate at a steady speed in it's optimal power range, be it charging batteries or actually driving, or both.

As for smaller vehicles, it would add too much cost and weight with minimal return.

For tractors, maybe there could be an application for it, high tech traction control, simplified drive train, battery power, ???.

Two of the advantages for locomotives, eliminates the need for a super heavy duty clutch and transmission system, and it can operate efficiently in either direction.
 
The electric drives that railroad locomotives have provides the same "variable ratio" effect that truck or tractor's mechanical transmission provides. A mechanical multi-speed transmission to withstand the 5000+ horsepower of a locomotive engine would be highly impractical so the generator/motor system is used. However, these components are very expensive and would be cost-prohibitive in smaller machines where the mechanical transmissions are simple, effective, and efficient.

Replacing hydrostatic drives with electric generators and motors has been studied in an effort to improve efficiency while maintaining the speed range flexibility. Back when diesel fuel was $4+ per gallon this made some sense but with our current fuel prices the added product cost can't be offset by fuel savings. Replacing mechanical transmissions with electric drives provides no efficiency benefit (actually, it would usually be a loss) so in this case there is nothing to offset the added cost.
 
As always, when it makes dollars & cents , it will be used. Dreams don't make money.
 
As someone else has alluded to, the electric motor is replacing the multispeed transmission. I believe this is also done in navy ships, though they often are using high rpm turbines for the power to run electric generators. Perhaps someone who was in the navy could give more details. Also applies to diesel electric submarines, of which the USA has one.

Also, I think that Komatsu and Cat may have very big diesel electric bulldozers.
 
My Dad worked in railway 30+ years. Rail shipment was the most efficient way to transport. Until corporate removed/drained/siphoned funds for everything but maintaining the business. Common thread? After posting the original message I discovered that MTZ farm equipment has a diesel electric tractor available in USA.
 
(quoted from post at 05:50:16 02/19/19) As someone else has alluded to, the electric motor is replacing the multispeed transmission. I believe this is also done in navy ships, though they often are using high rpm turbines for the power to run electric generators. Perhaps someone who was in the navy could give more details. Also applies to diesel electric submarines, of which the USA has one.

Also, I think that Komatsu and Cat may have very big diesel electric bulldozers.
I don't remember there being any big ships with diesel electric drive when I was in. I remember seeing stuff about electric drives in older electrician mates manuals but not in the newer ones. Currently steam or gas turbines are the main sources of power.
I don't think the navy has any diesel boats. They had 2 left when I was in but one had a bad fire and they decommed the other.
 
Diagram of a diesel electric locomotive.
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Long ago I watched one of these Letournau scrapers working. One operator, several engines driving electric motors. Must not be efficient, never have seen one since.
cvphoto13503.jpg
 
Back in the 20's and 30's when money was very tight the government helped the railroad industry develop diesel-electric engines as a testbed for submarines. Thus was born the war-winning technology that was used in U.S.Submarines in WW2
 
Sammy I'm just guessing here that you were the surface navy. It is true we don't have submarines where the only propulsion power is diesel and the purpose of the sub is killing other ships i.e. surface targets. All of our subs today are nuclear powered but every one has a backup to get home it's not very fast but it is designed to get the ship to a port--diesel. If you get a tour they'll show you the motor. You may not recognize it.
 
Chevy build the Volt that at time runs as a gas electric. Primarily meant to be a battery EV, but has a gas genset range extender.

JD electronic solutions in Fargo has had a standing ad for power system engineers for the past 5-6 years. So you could assume they think there is a future in it. I think high clearance sprayers will be the first ag application that goes electric. Some advantages to be had over all hydraulic.
 
My first ship was an old sub tender.
It had diesel electric propulsion.
Four GM Cleveland 16-248s in both the fore
and aft engine rooms plus two 12-248s in
each engine room to provide electricity
for the ship.
It had a couple of 871 Detroits for
emegency power too.
 
Understand why locomotives use electric drive: It requires incredible starting torque to get a train moving. Piston steam engines have maximum torque at zero rpm, so they didn't need transmissions. But diesel engines have NO torque at zero rpm, and need to get close to normal operating speed to generate significant torque. It's impractical to build a mechanical transmission with the amount of speed reduction required by a locomotive, although you can get close with a torque convertor. But an electric drive can have very high starting torque, and it is simple and efficient.

Another advantage of electric drive over diesel is in packaging. An electric drive eliminates the need for drive shafts and offers a lot more flexibility in where powertrain components are located. Other than the motors themselves, the engines and generators can be located almost anywhere. That's useful when designing almost any sort of equipment, but it's particularly important in submarines where space is limited and the hull design dictates where things can go.

For farm tractors, there's just not the compelling need for electric drive. Hydrostatic and mechanical transmissions provide sufficient speed reduction, and packaging isn't a big problem. But electric drive IS used for big construction equipment, such as rock haulers. All the major heavy equipment manufacturers, such as Caterpillar and Komatsu, offer such machines.
 
Correct, and interesting story at that. It was more like the gov't convinced the engine makers that diesel electric would replace steam and if they worked together to develop those sub engines they would have a leg up in the train market after the war, which they did.
 
FWIW, GM developed a Diesel-Electric motor scraper (pan) in the early 1960s. It was technologically successful but not commercially successful.

MAN attempted to market diesel-hydraulic (hydrostatic) railroad locomotives in the US in the late 1950s-early 1960s. Far too inefficient as compared to EMD D-E units, the effort was a commercial failure.

Modern D-E locomotives use AC traction, i.e., multiphase induction AC motors on each axle. Such motors require far less maintenance than do DC motors due to the absence of brushes, etc. The prime mover drives an alternator. The "transmission" is essentially a VFAC unit. Electronics monitor, power, fuel economy, wheel slip, temperatures, etc.

Dean
 
> Long ago I watched one of these Letournau scrapers working. One operator, several engines driving electric motors. Must not be efficient, never have seen one since.

Letourneau (later WABCO) built a lot of heavy equipment with various types of electric drive. My dad had a "C-Pull" self-loading "paddlewagon" scraper that used electric power for steering and to operating the scraper paddles, but used a conventional manual transmission behind a single 8V71 Detroit. The Hancock scraper bowl had hydraulic cylinders for height and ejection. Steering was accomplished by a single toggle switch on the dashboard that activated a huge motor in the gooseneck.

The Tournapull scrapers were notoriously unreliable, but it wasn't an electrical failure that finished off our C-Pull. The differential ring and pinion shelled out, and it just wasn't worth the cost and aggravation to repair.

We later got a Euclid (later Terex) TTS-14 tandem bowl scraper, similar in design to the three bowl Letourneau in your picture. The TTS-14 was based on the single bowl TS-14 and was powered by three 4-71 Detroits driving five-speed Allison powershift transmissions. Compressed air controls were used to operate the transmissions and hydraulics. The front engine had a mechanical throttle, while the mid and rear engines had air throttles with two positions: idle and full throttle. This was a very efficient machine anyplace big enough to use it, since it could do the same amount of work as two conventional scrapers and push-cat.
 
> All of our subs today are nuclear powered but every one has a backup to get home it's not very fast but it is designed to get the ship to a port--diesel.

Interestingly, the backup diesels in US nuclear subs are nearly identical to the engines used in WWII-era subs: They're Fairbanks-Morse 38 8-1/8 opposed-piston engines, originally developed in the thirties.
 
They left out the Dynamic brakes. One of the handiest things since the beginning of Diesel locomotives.
 
Your question has been answered.

But if you would like to pursue some relative information, do a google on this baby and get "mindboggled": Generous Electric, ES44AC, Currently run by BNSF (Burlington Northern-Santa Fe) AC traction motors, 4400 HP. Or the competing GM (ElectroMotive Division) who being the industry leader for many years, if you asked me, got left in the smoke and mirrors when GE decided to get into railroad business: SD70ACe, AC traction motors also and a paltry 4300 HP, and also in the BNSF corral.

BNSF Bringing the NE territory of Burlington Northern together with the S-SW territory of the Santa Fe routes made for good coverage of the US. They like to use them on those coal trains from the Dakotas that seem to be a mile long. Houston (TX.) power and light uses coal from up there as I recall and I have passed them on US 69 in my neighborhood and the cars just keep coming...seem to be no end.

Both are in N Scale in my 41 engine model train layouts primarily in Illinois Central for the "City of New Orleans" theme, and for the Santa Fe theme the connectivity from the heartland to the West coast passenger services and current activities like coal moving and such. Course a lot of rail traffic of today is containerized from the West coast and those babies go on forever if you ever tried to pass one while driving on I 10 or such.
 
Sure hope they don"t get confused when hooking it up, if the tractor is using a drag hose to apply liquid manure....
 
Actually, GE was in the locomotive business much earlier than was GM.

GM was not left in the dust by GE until they decided to no longer invest in the business in the 1960s/70s. Prior to that, GE was an also ran.

FWIW, the GE locomotive works is the remnants of ALCO.

Dean
 
. Cruise ships are doing the same thing with all electric drives .eliminates wasting floor space for those large , long and dangerous prop drive shafts .
Allows operation on 1,2,3 or 4 etc Diesel engines or gas turbines . One diesel operating at 100% power burns less fuel than two engines at 50% power each .
Electrical demand on military ships is increasing with every new whiz bang peice of equipment. Someday they may get around to installing rail guns .
Electric drives allow simple installation of a bow thruster which any ship finds handy while maneuvering.
 

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