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37chief

Well-known Member
Location
California
I see china is always quick to parade their military equipment in front of the world. I don't think we have much to worry about them beaning a threat, if they use the same parts in their equipment as they send to the US. Does china make a tractor for export? Stan
 
What few parts I've got that came from China you have to drill out the holes to get them to fit. Need a manifold for my 530 JD and half afraid to order one for fear it will be Chinese crap.
 
Really ? ? The Chinese have an active space program and a HUGE military. The fact that inexpensive products are available is strictly greed on the part of the importer/retailer/consumer. Those folks can and will make anything from crappy points to the finest machine tools on the planet. Time to get up to date and stop listening to idiots like fox news (and that other jerk).
 
you tell him Bob if only communists news network OH I mean cnn was our only state run news life would be perfect well that is if nnalert was pres. MAGA
 
This.

They will make as good a part as you want or make one to a price point that you want.

Lot of state of the art plants being built there...SKF....Metabo....et al.

I try to buy domestic made things as much as possible but being Chinese made does not automatically mean it's inferior. Never underestimate the competition.
 
It's not that all china stuff is junk, they will build what you want for the price you want. It's the US companies that demand the cheap junk so that's exactly what we get. China can and does build many great things, and parts.
 
(quoted from post at 04:35:26 02/15/19) It's not that all china stuff is junk, they will build what you want for the price you want. It's the US companies that demand the cheap junk so that's exactly what we get. China can and does build many great things, and parts.
Click to expand...

I think you are right....the corporations in quest of the almighty dollar is what seems to dictate the quality.
 
(quoted from post at 20:23:31 02/14/19) Really ? ? The Chinese have an active space program and a HUGE military. The fact that inexpensive products are available is strictly greed on the part of the importer/retailer/consumer. Those folks can and will make anything from crappy points to the finest machine tools on the planet. Time to get up to date and stop listening to idiots like fox news (and that other jerk).
Click to expand...

Your argument is the exact opposite....fox news and the prez are pushing the narrative that the Chinese are stealing our technology and that is what will bite us in the end....get a clue!
 
(quoted from post at 20:23:31 02/14/19) Really ? ? The Chinese have an active space program and a HUGE military. The fact that inexpensive products are available is strictly greed on the part of the importer/retailer/consumer. Those folks can and will make anything from crappy points to the finest machine tools on the planet. Time to get up to date and stop listening to idiots like fox news (and that other jerk).
Click to expand...

Granted that their military is huge. They last time I looked there are several problems with it. The first being with no standing threat why would need that large of a military? China's active military is about 2.3 million. Yet they really don't have any outside commitments? Something is going on that either we (our government) doesn't talk about (I know hard to believe) or that we don't know about (considering the CIA's record very believable). Another problem they have that we have picked up on is very poor quality equipment. I believe that are working on that problem but aircraft and tanks are not cheap, even there. I read a report about 25 years ago that claimed that Chinese combat aircraft had a service life of just a couple hundred hours. Don't know if it was true or not. But like us they have a budget. Few (about 25 or so) years back they claimed they were going to a 6 million man active military. They got up to about 3 million and cut back to current levels. Just too expensive.

AS far as news? I get mine from several sources including CNN, CBS and Fox. I really think of CNN and CBS more as indoctrination like the Soviet Tass news agency was rather than real news. Telling me what they want me to know and telling me what to think.

Rick
 
China. Ty have the ability to make the worst to the best. They keep the best and send us the worst. i have heard this from a mechanical engineer. From the electronics engineer comes that "X" amount of electronics is still made in Taiwan. That chunk of land was taken over by the Chinese. How much military stuff has Taiwan electronics in it? Oops.
China has a stronger hold than the Americans will ever admit to. As for the Military, The Russian Military also includes all civilian aircraft and what ever else they desire. I have little doubt that the Chinese are any less possessive.
 
Buying Chinese parts on the assumption that they must all be the same and the cheap one is the same thing As the more expensive one will always get you a junk part
 
You're exactly right - the only reasons companies send business there is to make stuff cheaper. One way to do it is lower quality. There are a lot of people in the country that think price is the only thing
that is important to a purchase.
 
(quoted from post at 22:04:46 02/14/19)
(quoted from post at 20:23:31 02/14/19) Really ? ? The Chinese have an active space program and a HUGE military. The fact that inexpensive products are available is strictly greed on the part of the importer/retailer/consumer. Those folks can and will make anything from crappy points to the finest machine tools on the planet. Time to get up to date and stop listening to idiots like fox news (and that other jerk).
Click to expand...

Your argument is the exact opposite....fox news and the prez are pushing the narrative that the Chinese are stealing our technology and that is what will bite us in the end....get a clue!
Click to expand...

Eldon, while we all know that theft of our technology by the Chinese is a big problem and yes the future ramifications are scary, they would not be anywhere near able to use our technology were it not for the last thirty years of our consumer votes against our manufacturing and in favor of theirs. Nearly all YTers who love to run Chinese manufacturing down, have been continually voting for Chinese with their dollars. I still drive by the big box and chain stores to go to my local independently owned hardware and autoparts stores. Where do you shop?
 
You are right about the quality of parts but dead wrong on Fox News and Fox Business, no networks hammer more on the danger of the Chinese economic and military threat.
 
We enabled China to take over our Manufacturing by selling them all of our manufacturing machines after our plants were closed. As far as stealing our technology they were caught stealing our corn breeding from Iowa State University so they wouldn't have to buy our seed.. They were prosecuted and sentenced. We as Americans done it to ourselves buy buying cheap stuff.
 
The place I work for sources several parts from China. Right now we have backorders with no end in sight. They are shut down for Chinese new year which might last a month ? Plus it seems they are now having issues with all the pollution their factories have created. Their government is to be doing something to the factories which is cutting or stopping ? production.
 
What really gripes me is to go down to the John Deere or Case New Holland dealer and pay premium price to get OEM parts and look at the box and see it is Made in China. Is it OEM or Aftermarket?
 
I was looking for a starter for a JD 445 mower/garden tractor,JD wanted $350 for a rebuilt starter.Got one off ebay for around $55 that was a dead ringer for the JD rebuilt that didn't look
rebuilt but looked new.Both were guaranteed for 1 year also.Here is the weird part JD wanted $430 for a new starter guaranteed only 90 days.
 
Eldon - You better put your tin foil cap on if you listen to CNN or MSNBC news. Last company I worked
for, a product manager saw an on-line advertisement for one of our most popular products from a source he
never heard of. So He bought six pieces. Cheap shoddy imitation of our complex part right down to our
corporate logo molded into the main body, but very poorly done. Our in-house design life to failure is
30 years of use. Typically several thousand hours of constant use to test. The Chinese knock-off failed
after 4 or 5 hours, and was marginal in operation the whole time. It was obvious it was a China knock-
off. We actually had a plant in China making product from parts we sent them, might have been an inside
job but the sales of the knock-off stopped.

Been my experience China has good machining and process capability, most US process companies have plants
already in China, but where China fails miserably is their wrought metal producing capability. Say you
want a Class 30 gray iron machined and painted casting. Part will be dimensionally accurate, but iron
will not be to spec, be weak or brittle, lots of slag inclusions but paint will be perfect, but probably
covers up loads of burned in sand. The Chinese workers sweep trash up off the floor and toss it into the
melting furnace. I've seen 1/4" diameter brass rod split in two length wise because of slag inclusions
running the length of the extruded rod. Seen 1 inch thick steel plate split into 1/4" and 3/4" thick
sections for slag or oxide veins running thru the plates. Cause is poor house-keeping, poor process
control, result is early failure of parts or assemblies, sometimes catastrophic failures.

So, yes, China can make "good" parts, but chooses to ship the US junk most times. They have their own
domestic materials with wide open ranges on chemistry, and typically three times as wide of dimensional
tolerances.
You won't hear these things on FOX news, but POTUS is correct, China needs to clean up their act. What
China has done to the US metals industries with their junk steel, iron, brass, even plastics is terrible.
I'M glad to see US based steel companies getting back on their feet.

SON works for a large multi-national corporation, couple years ago they switched from US made nylon tie-
straps, wire ties, chicken bands, to China made similar parts, but the new parts were weak, brittle, and
the tapered end had too much molding flash to start in the eyelet. What the company wasn't seeing was
instead of SON grabbing four per machine he'd grab a handful, would use 6 to 10 to get 4 good ones on the
machine. Most companies would describe that as a huge cost savings, saving maybe a penny per part and
because usage increased so much savings was way higher than predicted, but ignor the fact they needed an
average of 8 pcs to meet the demand of 4 per machine, so cost almost twice as much.
 
If you haven't noticed in recent years any parts you get made anywhere are junk. They are all competing with each other to make things cheaper. If a company made quality parts the price would be double or higher and would soon go out of business. Until the public starts desiring quality at any price it will continue to get worse.
 
i do too...but.. our mom and pop hardware stores sell the same chineesse stuff the wallymart and the other big stores sell. just a higher price. I do look for and try to get American made when i can and do/will pay more if I can get it.. sometimes it the same price or less. If no American made i'll take the mexican made over the china made if available. but in reality its hard to find non chinesse stuff.

machinists and tool making i foresee as being a dying art here... unfortunately.
 
If you want to point fingers at what is REALLY to blame, it is the failure of salaries to keep pace with increases in the cost of living.

Had the rest of the world stayed bombed to oblivion after WWII, we'd still be okay, but they rebuilt and the monopoly we had on manufacturing in the 1950's went away. Most of the unsustainable business practices that led to this were developed post-war, blind to the possibility that the rest of the world might recover some day.
 
China can, and will, build good stuff. Problem is, American companies spec junk, and the American consumer will only pay for junk. America is the problem, not China.
 

Say what you want about Chinese quality, but we used to build high quality tools and parts right here in the U.S.A., and we can and WILL do it again. I would love to buy clothing that says "made in the U.S.A. on the label. Then I would KNOW the size indicated on the label would be correct, and it will fit.
 
I recently bought a Chinese Tractor. It is a JinMa. It is A 2007 model with 400 hours on it. What I like about it is it is strictly old school, no computers. I had never heard of them but I looked them up and they have been making them for years. It is 35 hp and has a loader and 3 point.So far I like it. Only problem it is made for small people. I am not big but my knees keep hitting the dash and turning on the flashers.
 
(quoted from post at 23:03:11 02/14/19) I see china is always quick to parade their military equipment in front of the world. I don't think we have much to worry about them beaning a threat, if they use the same parts in their equipment as they send to the US. Does china make a tractor for export? Stan
Click to expand...

They can make parts superior to those made in the USA if they want to. We in the US are simply too damned cheap to specify quality. I presume their military and medical goods are at the least as good as ours. Likely better.
 
(quoted from post at 20:35:26 02/14/19) It's not that all china stuff is junk, they will build what you want for the price you want. It's the US [i:97fec24bf5][b:97fec24bf5][color=red:97fec24bf5]PEOPLE [/color:97fec24bf5][/b:97fec24bf5][/i:97fec24bf5]that demand the cheap junk so that's exactly what we get. China can and does build many great things, and parts.
Click to expand...

There. Fixed it for you....

-Scott
 
Why would you expect that the parts and equipment made in China for the Chinese military are of the same quality as the parts and equipment made in China for export to the US?

Dean
 
The name on the outside, does not tell what's on the inside. Start buying Cat O.E.M. parts and see where they come from!

Beagle
 
Quote:
I don't think we have much to worry about them beaning a threat, if they use the same parts in their equipment as they send to the US.

hhhhhhhmmmmmm..37chief......

China has 1 billion + Pop...... (India expected to pass China's pop)

China has sent their citizens to attend the free world post secondary Institutions. Then armed with the new knowledge, has turned the Table!!!!!!

With all do respect 37chief, china is and shall stay at the Vanguard of manufacturing....with possibly India supplying a larger portion of the global market

If consumers start standing up and demand quality goods,and squash their appetite for CHEAP ($$$$$$$$) goods...then and only then shall the quality of imported goods improve.

Lets not forget.....It was and still is the COMPANIES from the FREE WORLD moving their companies to these OFF SHORE Nations. These Companies make billions and could not care less about quality.
 
I go over to China probably quite a bit. One trip not to long ago I witnessed exactly what you guys are talking about. I was at a presentation taking place at a large foundry. For years their product was cast plumbing fittings. Guy holds up a 1/2 T announces it is for domestic use, lays it on a scale, then another for export, places it on scale then last one for US export, lays it on scale. You want to guess which one was lighter. His point was or is they will make just exactly what the customer wants to suit their price.
 
(quoted from post at 08:36:24 02/15/19)
(quoted from post at 23:03:11 02/14/19) I see china is always quick to parade their military equipment in front of the world. I don't think we have much to worry about them beaning a threat, if they use the same parts in their equipment as they send to the US. Does china make a tractor for export? Stan
Click to expand...

They can make parts superior to those made in the USA if they want to. We in the US are simply too damned cheap to specify quality. I presume their military and medical goods are at the least as good as ours. Likely better.
Click to expand...

BEFORE U.S. manufacturing was sent to China, WE made the best stuff available anywhere. You can no longer compare China's quality to the U.S made parts, because none of those parts are made in the U.S. anymore, and what China makes is still not as good as what USED to be made right here.
 
MiG 21 had estimated combat life of 200 hours, Russian engine had 300 hour TBO - overhaul time. Peacetime use in Egypt- fly MiG 21 to just over 200/250 hours on engine and then arrange replacement with
rebuild from Moscow. have a dozen engines on shelf in country for couple hundred planes with 75% operational. Possible communist takeover of government, kick out Russian 'advisors' and support, Russians stop
resupply and MiG21s don't have replacement engines-and at just over 300 hours turbine bearing siezed, MiG21 becomes a glider- not a good one. Rest of MiG21s grounded. Egyptian aircraft mech that did work on
commercial planes when not on active reserve duty checks out Rolls Royce that had same design family grandfather as russian engine, gets out tape measure and figure he can put in commercial rolls Royce
engine in MiG airframe, get a field serviceble engine with 2000 hours TBO and 90% performance of Russian engine--and that means 150 or so fighters able to fly safely, demonstrate some combat capability so
politicians can threaten other politicians. Chinese make F9(?) copy of MiG21 with about same copy of Russian engine as short life-BUT for past 10 years have had a upgrade with a copy of Rolls Royce engine
with about 1000 hours TBO- these are used southern China coastal region with a few in service near North Korea, Siberian border region-- and supposed to be a export version offered to Pakistan. MiG19 variant
also supposed to have a better engined version being used domesticaly with a offer for export to preferred customers. Old designs from Russian patterns proven to work at usable level and with some upgrades.
Rumanian IAR has upgrade of MiG21 with Rolls Engine or French made licensed variation, French fire control, radio and is offered for sale at price a bit less than F5 from american export version, competitive
price to Fiat G91 light fighter/bomber. China offers somewhat less capable but cheaper version for some customers. China Tank variation of Russian light tank upgrade from 73mm short gun with 85mm or 100mm
gun from old T34- 20% lighter than T34, able to ford water with kit, narrower for some restrictive roads, better fuel economy- not a heavy slugger against other medium tanks- but good enough support and able
to handle a Scorpion or AMX13, Bradley. Motorcycle- a 250cc variation of old East German Eisenschwein used by police and military, good reputation for reliability, ease of maintainance, some sales in Africa
where 2 strokes still allowed on roads, other is 4 stroke Chinese version of Russian Copy of pre war BMW R71(?) with sidecar sort of like Urals that is sold in USA. MiG15Bis 2 seat trainer with 3 different
engine choices - export offer for trainer use at 3/4 price of T37(?) or BAC Tutor/Constable. Military customers may want expendable at low cost-- but if those customers want a long life for used by Generals
utility vehicle, then maker is advise to watch quality control--dis satisfied customer with rifles, bayonets and larger guns may come back to complain, demand 'blood' payment. RN
 
(quoted from post at 12:32:23 02/15/19) MiG 21 had estimated combat life of 200 hours, Russian engine had 300 hour TBO - overhaul time. Peacetime use in Egypt- fly MiG 21 to just over 200/250 hours on engine and then arrange replacement with
rebuild from Moscow. have a dozen engines on shelf in country for couple hundred planes with 75% operational. Possible communist takeover of government, kick out Russian 'advisors' and support, Russians stop
resupply and MiG21s don't have replacement engines-and at just over 300 hours turbine bearing siezed, MiG21 becomes a glider- not a good one. Rest of MiG21s grounded. Egyptian aircraft mech that did work on
commercial planes when not on active reserve duty checks out Rolls Royce that had same design family grandfather as russian engine, gets out tape measure and figure he can put in commercial rolls Royce
engine in MiG airframe, get a field serviceble engine with 2000 hours TBO and 90% performance of Russian engine--and that means 150 or so fighters able to fly safely, demonstrate some combat capability so
politicians can threaten other politicians. Chinese make F9(?) copy of MiG21 with about same copy of Russian engine as short life-BUT for past 10 years have had a upgrade with a copy of Rolls Royce engine
with about 1000 hours TBO- these are used southern China coastal region with a few in service near North Korea, Siberian border region-- and supposed to be a export version offered to Pakistan. MiG19 variant
also supposed to have a better engined version being used domesticaly with a offer for export to preferred customers. Old designs from Russian patterns proven to work at usable level and with some upgrades.
Rumanian IAR has upgrade of MiG21 with Rolls Engine or French made licensed variation, French fire control, radio and is offered for sale at price a bit less than F5 from american export version, competitive
price to Fiat G91 light fighter/bomber. China offers somewhat less capable but cheaper version for some customers. China Tank variation of Russian light tank upgrade from 73mm short gun with 85mm or 100mm
gun from old T34- 20% lighter than T34, able to ford water with kit, narrower for some restrictive roads, better fuel economy- not a heavy slugger against other medium tanks- but good enough support and able
to handle a Scorpion or AMX13, Bradley. Motorcycle- a 250cc variation of old East German Eisenschwein used by police and military, good reputation for reliability, ease of maintainance, some sales in Africa
where 2 strokes still allowed on roads, other is 4 stroke Chinese version of Russian Copy of pre war BMW R71(?) with sidecar sort of like Urals that is sold in USA. MiG15Bis 2 seat trainer with 3 different
engine choices - export offer for trainer use at 3/4 price of T37(?) or BAC Tutor/Constable. Military customers may want expendable at low cost-- but if those customers want a long life for used by Generals
utility vehicle, then maker is advise to watch quality control--dis satisfied customer with rifles, bayonets and larger guns may come back to complain, demand 'blood' payment. RN
Click to expand...

RN, It looks like you posted some very interesting information. Could you proofread and repost it?
 
And I believe that the parts at the independantly owned hardware and auto parts stores would be from the same factory being built to same specifications. Just when packaged they just grab a different box, one for store A, next box store b, next for store C and back to store A. I like the local stores as well but do not think you get any better parts there, just being they buy by the box of say a pipe fitting the national will buy by the truck load of boxes so they can sell the item for less than the small purchaser can buy the item for. I do know that 30 years ago my Father-in-law when buying something simple for his drug store he could only buy 6 bottles of rubbing achol at a time but his bigger competor in same town (also independantly owned) could buy instead of 6 bottles he could buy 6 cases and his cost then was enough less that he could sell it at a profit for less than my Father-in-law had to pay for it. Now the chain store instead of the 6 cases would but like 6 truckloades at a time and get each bottle for probably 2% of cost my father-in-law had to pay for the same bottle. This is same exact product. Just the manufacture with less cost to send out large orders could do it so much cheaper to the big box store. When chain store came in they came to him to buy him out and get him to work for them. Where he was having to scrimp to get by and working 80 hours a weel he then was getting more money to live on and working 40 hours a week and also could get a vacation.
 
Was having problems with my Stihl blower and it needed a carb rebuild. I know the guy who owns the dealership where I bought it so I asked him about getting a rebuild kit.

He said forget it, they don't do that anymore. Just put a new carb on it. Sent me a link. To eBay!

So I order what I thought was a generic Chinese knockoff carb for $15.

I get the carb and pull apart the machine, take off the old carb and look closely at it. OEM carb is stamped made in China on the bottom. New "knockoff" carb is EXACTLY the same in every detail. Casting marks, stampings, etc. Perfectly identical.

Put on new carb, filled gas, pulled 3 times, machine never has run this good before. Draw your own conclusions.

There's good Chinese parts and bad Chinese parts like everything else.

Grouse
 
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