use ballast in rear tires?

This warm morning I went out to the barn and could see on the rear tires how full they are with liquid. Just like sometimes you can see on the outside of your propane tank, how much propane is in there. I've never been able to see this before on the tires. With that zillion below zero weather we just had, maybe the calcium stuff in there almost froze and now it is can be seen as a cold mass against the warmer tires? I never knew how full they were. They look to be about 40% full. So I asked the computer how full they should be and this article said they used to recommend 75% full and now recommend 40%. And then it said that liquid ballast is not recommended in rear tires, only the fronts. Among the problems it cited is that it can cause "power hops". What is that? Below is the article. What do you guys have to say about any of this? I have noticed that sometimes when I stop the tractor, the tractor rocks back and forth in tune with the liquid sloshing around in the tires before it settles. Do most of you use liquid in the rear tires?


Using liquid ballast in tires


IMPORTANT:Liquid ballast is not preferred in rear tires. Liquid weight greatly increases tire stiffness at lower operating pressures and greatly reduces ride performance.

In some cases liquid will be needed in the front tires to achieve the correct weight splits with some implements for field operation and transporting.

CAUTION: Installing liquid ballast requires special equipment and training. See your John Deere dealer or tire service store.

IMPORTANT: Never fill any tire to more than 90% full. More solution could damage tire.

Use of water or calcium chloride solution can be used to provide economical ballast. A mixture of 3.5 lb. of calcium chloride per U.S. gal. (0.42 kg per liter) will not freeze solid above -50 F (-45 C). However, liquid ballast is not recommended because it results in harsh ride, difficulty in handling, spills if flats occur, and when used in rear tires can result in greater susceptibility to power hop.

CAUTION: Avoid possible injury due to losing control of tractor. Limit transport speed to 20 mph (32 km/h) when using liquid ballast.
Note:
Use of alcohol as liquid ballast is not recommended. Calcium chloride solution is heavier and more economical.
IMPORTANT: A maximum liquid fill of 40 percent is recommended in rear tires for better tractor performance instead of the previous recommendation of 75 percent fill. Fill tube-type or tubeless tires up to valve level (40 percent full) with valve (A) shown above, in the 4 o'clock position. When putting liquid in either front or rear tires, make sure both front tires have the same amount of liquid fill and/or all rear tires have the same amount of liquid fill.

I prefer cast iron weights over liquid ballast, but that being said, there is nothing wrong with liquid ballast. If the ballast in your tires is sloshing around, I will guess that you need to add more ballast.

I only have antique tractors (even though I use them) so I avoid ballast to protect the rims.

Thought it was interesting that in this day and age we're more interested in ride comfort than traction, apparently. I'm still using steel pan seats.

FIL had all his tires filled around that 40%. I had what I think is power hop at road speeds. The ballast gets to rotating with the tire but it doesn't start right away. Never been a problem, just gives you a little bounce.

My rears are about 75% full of Calcium chloride, makes a BIG difference in traction year round. I sometimes see the vapor on the outside of
the tires if the temperature(change) is just right, also the castings will get kinda frosty.

Dave

It's interesting to look at them. The only one of mine that seems to be as full as they should be and are somewhere near equal is the 2-135 White. The 1850 Oliver has one that doesn't look like it's even 30%,the other side probably isn't 50. They're a little low and not equal in the 2-105 and 1365. I guess that's why the left side comes off the ground first if I lift something too heavy with the 1365.

who ever supplied that info knows little.

I would say they know less

I suspect those recommendations are for
modern high hp front assist or four
wheel drive tractors that operate at
much higher speeds than older tractors.
They get traction from tall wide tires
and run faster than most older tractors
are designed to be run.

"Do most of you use liquid in the rear tires?"
I suppose a better answer might be what your using the tractor for and the basic weight of the machine.
Most of the tractors I have come across through the years are filled with CaCl and are suffering from damaged rims. I usually drain them
off and fix the rims. I currently have two tractors that are filled. One is a Kubota 7500 and that light weight toy needs all the help it
can get. After 19 years and a whopping 412 hours of run time, those rims are not damaged yet.
I picked up a Ford Gold Demonstrator with loaded tires and pie weights. Those 1959(?) rims are damaged and in need of repair. (Next summer
is coming.) CaCl is only one loading agent, but has a 12.5 pounds per gallon weight effect. Water as you know, comes in at 8.35 pounds per
gallon. Beet juice is another option but there have been some, some tire manufactures who warn against beet juice. Sub zero Washer Fluid is
another option as is Anti-freeze. The last two one again going back down to 8.35 pounds per gallon and losing the weight advantage of the
CaCl but not freezing in the winter is the desired advantage over plain water.
As for cast iron weights, those do not cause damage but might be difficult to locate. Some machines might not advise the addition of both
or might advocate fluid with a set amount of cast iron to add to the machine before something gets broke-ed.
Have fun with your research!

Fluid in the front tires? I've never heard that recommended, even in front wheel assist tractors. For any serious pulling I want chloride in my rear tractor tires. Seeing the frost on the tires, in fact the whole machine, is normal for us when the weather starts to warm up. The little 2140 JD has chloride right up to the valve stems and it is none too heavy for getting around in wet snow with a bale on the front bucket.

gotmyfarm! Your looking the recommendations for MODERN high horse power tractors. They are usually MFWD and or full 4wd. These are where you get power hop. Power hop is the tire side wall deflecting under torque load. The front and back get to slipping/flexing/hopping at different frequencies. The tractor then can "hop" up and down rather violently. I have never seen this happen in any tractor under 100 HP(usually 200 HP plus) and never on a two wheel drive tractor. So that excludes 95% of the tractors that the average Yter would use/own.

As for the road speed warning that would be for tractors that can travel fast enough that that centrifugal force can cause troubles. Once again this is on tractors that can travel 25MPH or faster. This is why you rarely see fluid ballast used in European tractors and the majority of the modern tractors over there have high transport speeds.

The calcium chloride in your tires did not freeze but is just still cold and the moisture in the air is condensing on the outside just like a cold beverage does in humid conditions.

On the average older tractors, like most Yters own, I would still recommend filling to cover the rim. This would be 75% or so. On Tubeless tires you have to cover the rim to prevent the rim from rusting when exposed to air.

So your looking at information that is targeted to a totally different machine that you own.

My Ford 4000 had calcium chloride ballast in both front and rear tires when I bought it. When I replaced the rotted front tires and wheels, I had them filled again with chloride because that's what was available. I later had to put a new tube in one of the fronts and they loaded it with Rim Guard (sugar beet juice). Rim Guard is expensive! I think it was almost 50 bucks just to fill a single front tire.

When the rear tires finally gave out a couple a years ago, I bought new tires and rims from Miller Tire and had Miller mount and ballast them. Miller does not use Rim Guard, claiming it damaged their equipment. Instead they use windshield washer fluid, which is much more economical than Rim Guard. Obviously it's not as heavy, but it's proven plenty good for what I use the tractor for, mainly clearing snow (with tire chains mounted).

One advantage of liquid ballast versus weights is it lowers the tractor's center of gravity. My row crop Ford needs all the help it can get on my hilly property.

jdsseller, well darnit, I wish that tire guy would've filled the tires with more liquid then. I had to get all new tires right away when I bought the tractor and trusted he knew what to do.

As JDSeller said, those recommendations are for modern tractors with radial tires trying to achieve the lowest cents/ac operating cost. When radials are
run at the proper pressure for field work, they have a tremendous amount of squat, as the tire rolls that water has to be squished around inside.

I am in the camp that prefers cast iron over liquid. That said, the one tractor I have with liquid ballast, is my loader. The rear tires are full to the valve
stem with CaCl, and there is a 1000 lb iron donut on each wheel. If not careful, the loader can still pick the back off the ground.

I can buy wheel weights from the local salvage yard for scrap price, they have a pile to pick from.

That was another thing I wasn't sure of: radial or not. I ended up getting the non-radial tires. Is that okay for what I'm doing, making hay, with minimal road driving? And I don't have any front end attachments where I would need a lot of weight in the rear, so maybe 40% fill is okay except for the rust issue? I do want to get a round bale spear but I think it would go on the back end of the tractor?

I?m quite used to bias type tires and being 75% filled and everything working out mostly all right.

That article might apply to a rather different goal and different tire type and different weight balances, I donno. Thesloshing comes from less than 75% full, the power
hop comes from the wrong weight for the load needed, can happen at any mismatched combination.

Cast iron weight is wonderful but you need to find some, and be able to manuver it, and need a place to put it on the tractor without interfering with other things, need to
move wheels all in or all out and you find some issues.

Have 3 tractors with fluid, 1 in all 4, and works well. 75%.

Paul

Deere recommended it in all the Dubuque
two cylinders. They need the weight to
keep the front down.

Never heard of that and had several 2 cylinder tractoes. Nothing in the books either. Probably later tractors with a 3 point hitch that I never had and would have taken it off if would have had it when I bought it. But it is not normal to want fluid in front on a 2 cylinder Deere.

gotmyfarm!, here is the most important question:

Is what you have working for you? If so, you made the right choice.

Could it be better? Maybe? Probably? Sure? But it's going to cost you a ton of money to change to radial tires now.

You can always add more fluid, or find some iron weights, later, IF you find that you need them.

As for the "rust issue," if the fluid stays in the tube, there is no rust issue. Use good tubes, get them installed properly, and they will last for decades. If you address leaks promptly and appropriately, there is no rust issue.

When you come out one morning and a rear tire is flat, it went flat for a reason. A lot of times you can just pump them back up and they'll seem to hold air just fine, but that's where the problems start. "I'll just run it today to get through this field," or "I'll just run it until harvest is over and then I'll fix it." This turns into months and years.

(quoted from post at 10:05:38 02/03/19) That was another thing I wasn't sure of: radial or not. I ended up getting the non-radial tires. Is that okay for what I'm doing, making hay, with minimal road driving? And I don't have any front end attachments where I would need a lot of weight in the rear, so maybe 40% fill is okay except for the rust issue? I do want to get a round bale spear but I think it would go on the back end of the tractor?

Click to expand...

With so little information about what you have and what you are doing there its nothing going on here but guessing. I will just pass on though, that since you say that you are haying, that haying doesn't normally require much power or ballast, but if you are on hills that more power and PLENTY of weight are advisable. I pull my baler and wagon behind my Ford 971 and I have plenty of ballast both front and rear. You really should start a new thread and give some information.

For what fluid costs these days and how much a farm service call to fix tires these days I've gone away from fluid on most all my tractors,I can load up an empty tire and wheel haul them down to my tire guy and get them fixed and put them back on the tractor easy enough the savings soon pays for some iron weights plus I don't loose the weights if the tire goes flat out in the field and the weights don't spray all over me and the tractor either.

Looks like those of you who use liquid do fill to more than 40%. If I could go back to last year, I'd tell the tire guy to put in 75%. He didn't charge specifically for the liquid, just 'tires and labor', the bill said. Sounds like weights are a good way to go. I think I'd like the stillness of weights over the moving liquid. Now I know for what I'm doing, I really don't need much extra weight in the back, but do like the idea of a heavy tractor that has no capability of ever lifting off the ground. I would feel better with a little more weight in the front. I had that one day working last summer, where the front end felt too light for comfort. I was driving while leaning forward with all my weight I could get further forward over the steering wheel, as if that was going to help I'll have to look into front weights. I was under the impression that radials are more important to have if you do a lot of road driving, which I don't. I don't know if they are so important out working in the field? Maybe they'd last a little longer? I'm happy with the tires I got, although this is my first tractor and first set of new tires, so have nothing to compare to. Very deep treads in them and I've been able to finagle my way out of some crooked wet spots and mud spots. Thanks for all the input.