I live at the entrance to a state park. Years ago my I started selling firewood from the end of my driveway and paid for tractor upkeep with profits, and a reason to have 6 tractors on 5 acres. I can sell 20 to 30 bundles on a good day, but average about 30 per week over the 4 months I have the trailer out by the drive. What gets me is when cars/ trucks pull in and load multiple bundles of firewood and when I check cash box they didn?t pay and they are long gone. (my wife hates people coming to the house to pay when my wife or daughters are here alone) I have chased down no pay people before and collected. It?s not the people that pay $20 when it should be $25, it?s the people who pull up and load up and don't pay. This year has started out with 1/2 of trailer load not being paid for. I have a large pile of split wood, but this may be last year of selling wood. Or do I place security camera/ DVR to watch trailer and take "crooks" to small claims court. over the last 15 years the crappiest cars are the most honest people (and friendliest), they bring the money to the house.
- Thread starter PDRuff
- Start date
Gambles
Well-known Member
A couple of weeks ago, some kids had a felony arrest for requesting water at a McDonalds drive-through and then getting soda refills from the same cup when they walked inside the store. I thick the kids got what they deserved.
My vote is to get some security cameras, record the thefts and report them. Once word gets out, theft will go down.
My vote is to get some security cameras, record the thefts and report them. Once word gets out, theft will go down.
Russ from MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bemidji MN
Unfortunately the honor system only works with honorable people, and there are not so many of them anymore! I would put up a game camera and a sign, and see how that works, otherwise you might just have to sit out there.
Dave H (MI)
Well-known Member
I dunno...never happened. People call me and want hay/straw or whatever else I have for sale...like bagged oats. I pull the order and load it in an old trailer which I leave up by the milk house. There is a box screwed to the wall and they put their money or check in the box. Whenever I get there next I pull it out. Neighbors leave stuff in there for me sometimes too. Never had anyone steal anything.
Stephen Newell
Well-known Member
Maybe you need a game camera.
Ted in NE-OH
Well-known Member
All you need is a sign that "SECURITY CAMERA IN USE" You don't need the camera, just the sign and then see what happens.
Steve@Advance
Well-known Member
Not sure how I would handle it...
Pretty sure the police would not be interested in helping you enforce an honor system theft. For you to go after someone, alone, would be very risky, I would not risk my life over it!
About all you can do is put up some cameras and signs, might make people think twice.
Or stay there and sell in person, maybe hire someone to man it for a percentage of the take.
Pretty sure the police would not be interested in helping you enforce an honor system theft. For you to go after someone, alone, would be very risky, I would not risk my life over it!
About all you can do is put up some cameras and signs, might make people think twice.
Or stay there and sell in person, maybe hire someone to man it for a percentage of the take.
There is a old retired man and woman in our town that at one time bought a large drink cup each, old cups are ragged and torn, every morning they come in Hardy's and fill their cups and walk out without paying. Its not like they don't have money to pay for the drinks, I reckon they just want to steal. If I was the manager I would burn their butts!!!!
pdruff - Here is your solution to your problem! Firewood vending machine. Yup, they make and sell them. I'll provide a link below.
Firewood Vending Machine
Firewood Vending Machine
Many times places like this have a gimmick where you buy this BIG cup, for 10 times what it's worth, and it's 'free' to fill it. Most of their money is made when people only fill their cup once, or twice.
Sounds to me like the folks your talking about knew a good deal when they saw it.....and realized how to actually make it into a good deal for themselves, and not necessarily for the restaurant as the deal was actually intended to be.
Sounds to me like the folks your talking about knew a good deal when they saw it.....and realized how to actually make it into a good deal for themselves, and not necessarily for the restaurant as the deal was actually intended to be.
put firewood sign out by road with your cellphone number on it, if your home they git wood, otherwise come when you plan to be home, most poeple understand the situation if explaned, probably wount sell as much, but youll get paid for it. i sell garden manure,hay, straw off the road, and thats what i finally did. people would get frusterated, if im in the field or not home. i got most trained to call first
Morality and ethics have gone away since the coming of the computer age. Now almost all people think that it is alright to steal. I would seriously think of getting out of the business. Maybe you could just sell your wood to someone who has a manned sales stand or business?
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
Put out one of these:
<a href="http://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Home-Security-Video-Surveillance-Surveillance-Cameras-Fake-Security-Cameras/N-5yc1vZc579/Ntk-Extended/Ntt-security+camera?Ntx=mode+matchpartialmax&NCNI-5">Fake Security Cameras</a>
<a href="http://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Home-Security-Video-Surveillance-Surveillance-Cameras-Fake-Security-Cameras/N-5yc1vZc579/Ntk-Extended/Ntt-security+camera?Ntx=mode+matchpartialmax&NCNI-5">Fake Security Cameras</a>
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Any business plan these days that relies on the vast majority of the people being honest and trustworthy is flawed and will never work unfortunately.
Gambles
Well-known Member
I'm going to add one more post to this thread and when it was said that there is no more honesty in the world, it reminded me of it.
I live in an rural area and mostly everybody knows everybody. About 10 years ago, my brother put up some wood on the side of the road and, since his wagon was full, wasn't able to get all of it loaded for the trip home. He unloaded what he had and went back to where there was cut pieces left on the ground. When he came back, the superintendent, yes, the superintendent of our high school was there with his pickup loading up what my brother hadn't been able to load. Now it wasn't that this wood was there for a few weeks and would make it appear that it was abandoned. My brother had left for only about a half an hour. My brother made him unload the wood. Since this guy lived down the road only two miles and was a neighbor, told him that if he ever needed some wood he could help him cut some up on the buzz saw and that he could have some free just for helping out my brother. He never came back. Yet if a kid in public school was to get caught stealing another person's property in school, he would be on the principal's case to expel him.
I live in an rural area and mostly everybody knows everybody. About 10 years ago, my brother put up some wood on the side of the road and, since his wagon was full, wasn't able to get all of it loaded for the trip home. He unloaded what he had and went back to where there was cut pieces left on the ground. When he came back, the superintendent, yes, the superintendent of our high school was there with his pickup loading up what my brother hadn't been able to load. Now it wasn't that this wood was there for a few weeks and would make it appear that it was abandoned. My brother had left for only about a half an hour. My brother made him unload the wood. Since this guy lived down the road only two miles and was a neighbor, told him that if he ever needed some wood he could help him cut some up on the buzz saw and that he could have some free just for helping out my brother. He never came back. Yet if a kid in public school was to get caught stealing another person's property in school, he would be on the principal's case to expel him.
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
Make them come speak with you. Two farms down here had the honor system. For garden produce and firewood. Lost so much they stopped putting things out.
If your operation is very small just put up a camera in use sign or a fake camera!! We had one around me where they put up game or security cameras and caught the guy in the act, car number plate too. Police went and summonsed him cost him a lot of money in fines, that was a farm stand. I surmise vending machins are costly but could work and you could put several out in the right places.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Drug heads will sell firewood and anything else they can steal to get $$$ for drugs.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Not true druggies around here have stolen scrap metal,cut down power lines,used a battery Sawsall to get under pickups and SUV to cut out and steal Cat Converters if they need $$$ for drugs they'll
do about anything to get it.
do about anything to get it.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
If you make them call you for the wood, you may as well close up shop. People only stop because it's there and convenient. If the wood's not out there, people won't stop.
The only thing you can do is try to minimize theft with the threat of prosecution. Don't get crazy. Keep it simple. Good quality professional signs that say, "Security Cameras In Use" will have the most effect.
Above all, do not put up a sign with a rant about "due to theft" because that is just going to tell them that they are getting to you and the theft will get worse.
All this will do is REDUCE the theft. The "smart" ones will know that there's nothing you can do even with security footage, and still steal. You are just trying to keep the honest ones honest, the fence-sitters on the honest side of the fence, and the business profitable.
The only thing you can do is try to minimize theft with the threat of prosecution. Don't get crazy. Keep it simple. Good quality professional signs that say, "Security Cameras In Use" will have the most effect.
Above all, do not put up a sign with a rant about "due to theft" because that is just going to tell them that they are getting to you and the theft will get worse.
All this will do is REDUCE the theft. The "smart" ones will know that there's nothing you can do even with security footage, and still steal. You are just trying to keep the honest ones honest, the fence-sitters on the honest side of the fence, and the business profitable.
Donald Lehman
Well-known Member
The big problem with security cameras is hiding them so they don't get stolen, too. I used to think people in this area where pretty honest until Wally-World opened up and my wife witnessed first hand the amount of theft that geos on. Most of it is junkies looking for a way to pay for the next fix. All in all, though, our area is better than most.
my SIL and BIL (different families) put out vegies on a stand in their common driveway under a cover from the sun. For many years they did well but lately people drive in the drive, get out look the food over, make a selection and take it. The sign says PAY HERE on a can on the table. The last 3 years have been robbed blind but they still keep trying
Put a fake or real camera up and a shooting target full of bullseye shots ! Then a caption saying we are watching for drive offs. Or something like that. Some will see the humor in it. Others will still take your wood and your camera.
I'd most likely put up a sign saying due to so many drive off crooks stealing wood from me I had to close up shop !
I'd most likely put up a sign saying due to so many drive off crooks stealing wood from me I had to close up shop !
dr sportster
Well-known Member
Kids telescope ,cut end off mount to electric pull box paint all flat black ; fake camera for less than ten bucks. Junk large telescopes work too.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Here's another thought if you don't decide to hang it up:
Man the stand, or at least be visible, during prime camper arrival times: Friday afternoon/evenings and Saturday mornings.
The rest of the time, the trailer is up behind the barn, out of sight, or has only one or two bundles of wood in it for the stragglers or those who need a resupply on Saturday night.
A few hours of your time reduces the theft to ZERO. You won't miss much business and profits will be way up.
Man the stand, or at least be visible, during prime camper arrival times: Friday afternoon/evenings and Saturday mornings.
The rest of the time, the trailer is up behind the barn, out of sight, or has only one or two bundles of wood in it for the stragglers or those who need a resupply on Saturday night.
A few hours of your time reduces the theft to ZERO. You won't miss much business and profits will be way up.
Crazy Horse
Well-known Member
Seems a bit unlikely that serious drug heads are going camping for the weekend, they prefer street corners and bars, etc. Mind you, some of those guys you call "drug heads" could be the guy next door or your lawyer, plumber, dentist, mechanic, or family physician). My point being that druggies are everywhere in every walk of life so don't think that clean-cut family types are not using the stuff. And when I think about it, maybe they steal firewood as well.
Chris in SK
Member
Not much honour anymore??unfortunatly that just means ?free stuff? to a lot of people!
Is there a store in the park or a gas station near by? If there is I?d investigate selling it to them wholesale and let them have the problem of dealing with the public. If your losing half your fire wood to theft, you might be better off selling it by the trailer load at half the price and not have the hassle. I understand check / paper trail might not be ?flexible? as cash sales.
You could still sell a bit from your yard when you are there.
Is there a store in the park or a gas station near by? If there is I?d investigate selling it to them wholesale and let them have the problem of dealing with the public. If your losing half your fire wood to theft, you might be better off selling it by the trailer load at half the price and not have the hassle. I understand check / paper trail might not be ?flexible? as cash sales.
You could still sell a bit from your yard when you are there.
My son is going to get a security camera system for me. Put it 35 feet up on my TV tower (TV tower is about 215 feet from trailer). It will text me when it sees movement at the trailer so I can head out there, it will record the transaction. should be up in couple weeks, will print camera sign like suggested. camera system comes with 4 cameras so will point the other 3 to other parts of the property... so I can finally see what the dog and chickens do all day...
longmeadowfarm
Member
A number of years ago as a 9th grade sunday school teacher i gave my students a home work assignment in ethics. I reviewed the ethical dilemma in class and essentially asked if they thought they were their brother's keeper--making my position clear. The assignment was ---"what would you do if a retail clerk gave you more change than you were entitled to"-- essentially indicating -----the clerk made a mistake. During my next sunday session I asked for their responses. I cannot recall the numbers--but many-- actually too many 9th graders said that their dad/mom said I was wrong and that the responsibility was with the person/clerk who mistakenly paid out too much change... and that they were somehow entitled to the "extra" payment. I determined then that there was little hope for the human race. Honor and integrity had fallen to blatant self interest and greed. I told the pastor that religion had failed-- and left teaching sunday school which I had been doing for 18 years. Am I surprised at what is happing?? not at all I saw it coming almost 15 years ago. We as a society look upon the native indians as savages-- primitive peoples who are unworthy of our esteem. If studied.. the undeniable fact is that these somewhat primitive peoples had a significantly greater degree of honor and integrity than we do in our present form. We have amongst us, rather primitive, uneducated and weak minds who don't fear the Lord and certainly can't be accused of being honorable.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Whoa!! This kind of progressive thinking will never fly here my friend.
You are dead right with your thoughts.
GeneMO
Well-known Member
- Location
- Pilot Grove, Mo.
Old farmer kept having firewood dissappear off his woodpile. He decided to put a stop to it. He drilled a hole in one chunk, filled it with blackpowder and put in a plug. He put up a sign.
"one piece of firewood is loaded with explosives, you guess which one". He, of course, knew which one he had loaded up. Few weeks later he was back out at the woodpile, and there was another sign. It said: " Now there are two sticks of firewood loaded with explosives, you guess which one"
Gene
"one piece of firewood is loaded with explosives, you guess which one". He, of course, knew which one he had loaded up. Few weeks later he was back out at the woodpile, and there was another sign. It said: " Now there are two sticks of firewood loaded with explosives, you guess which one"
Gene
Goose
Well-known Member
The following from a book entitled, "A Dirty, Wicked Little Town", a history of Omaha from the time in 1853 when several people stood on the west bank of the Missouri River and wondered if that would be a good place to start a town:
In about 1856, at a time when everyone cooked with wood as well as heating, a fellow in newly settled Omaha would go up in the hills north of Omaha, cut firewood, then haul it to a lot in the Florence area of north Omaha to retail it. He began experiencing pilferage.
He took a couple dozen pieces of wood, bored holes in them, packed them with gunpowder, and hammered a wooden plug back in. He then left them where they could be easily pilfered. When stoves began blowing up regularly in the neighborhood, the pilferage stopped.
In about 1856, at a time when everyone cooked with wood as well as heating, a fellow in newly settled Omaha would go up in the hills north of Omaha, cut firewood, then haul it to a lot in the Florence area of north Omaha to retail it. He began experiencing pilferage.
He took a couple dozen pieces of wood, bored holes in them, packed them with gunpowder, and hammered a wooden plug back in. He then left them where they could be easily pilfered. When stoves began blowing up regularly in the neighborhood, the pilferage stopped.
thought the felony charge was kinda harsh for stealing soda, here the rest of the story. Have you ever stolen soda from a restaurant? Maybe the cashier forgot to charge you for a fountain drink but still gave you a cup, or you ordered water but upon filling your cup, realized it had a terrible funky taste and switched to Diet Coke instead. Point being: As far as crimes go, it's a pretty easy and seemingly innocuous one to commit.
So it's not hard to feel at least a tiny bit of empathy for an 18-year-old dude in Springdale, Arkansas who was arrested earlier this week after his little water-for-soda switcheroo went terribly awry. According to ABC 7, Cody Morris and two friends ordered three large waters at a McDonald's drive-thru; they then poured out the contents and went inside the restaurant to fill their cups with soda. The manager had apparently seen this abuse of the free-refill system one too many times, and decided to call the police to report the incident as a robbery.
Morris's two friends returned their drinks, but he wasn't going down without a fight: He fled with his beverage and, according to police, "hit the manager twice with his car when the man tried to block his escape." His vehicle was later found parked outside a nearby bowling alley, where he was apprehended and charged with felony robbery; he was soon released on $2,500 bond, which is coincidentally the cost of about 1,700 large sodas at McDonald's.
So it's not hard to feel at least a tiny bit of empathy for an 18-year-old dude in Springdale, Arkansas who was arrested earlier this week after his little water-for-soda switcheroo went terribly awry. According to ABC 7, Cody Morris and two friends ordered three large waters at a McDonald's drive-thru; they then poured out the contents and went inside the restaurant to fill their cups with soda. The manager had apparently seen this abuse of the free-refill system one too many times, and decided to call the police to report the incident as a robbery.
Morris's two friends returned their drinks, but he wasn't going down without a fight: He fled with his beverage and, according to police, "hit the manager twice with his car when the man tried to block his escape." His vehicle was later found parked outside a nearby bowling alley, where he was apprehended and charged with felony robbery; he was soon released on $2,500 bond, which is coincidentally the cost of about 1,700 large sodas at McDonald's.
jimg.allentown
Well-known Member
Most of the "solutions" given here will have very limited potential for success.
Signs stating "security cameras in use" will soon be ignored when it becomes apparent that there are really no cameras - unless there really are camera(s). Signs are cheap and common. Cameras are more expensive.
Fake cameras are easily spotted. Real cameras are easily defeated or fooled.
A partial solution might be to simply spend more time monitoring the trailer during peak times. The presence of a person would be a big deterrent.
Another idea might be to put the wood in a locked cage similar to the ones that are used for propane tanks. Post your cell phone number on a sign that tells the customer to call for service.
Signs stating "security cameras in use" will soon be ignored when it becomes apparent that there are really no cameras - unless there really are camera(s). Signs are cheap and common. Cameras are more expensive.
Fake cameras are easily spotted. Real cameras are easily defeated or fooled.
A partial solution might be to simply spend more time monitoring the trailer during peak times. The presence of a person would be a big deterrent.
Another idea might be to put the wood in a locked cage similar to the ones that are used for propane tanks. Post your cell phone number on a sign that tells the customer to call for service.
This has been an interesting read. Many have different ways of handling this situation.
Couple of years ago my wife wanted to try selling some eggs and veggies with a trailer up by the road with honor system payment. About the 3rd time she had stuff just stolen I told her enough and I stopped hauling the trailer up there everyday. I wasn't mad, I just refused to make us victims any longer. The funny part is had someone bother to drive into the house and told us they really needed the food that was stolen we would have given it to them. Total theft amounted to about 25 bucks. I think about the only real solution is to man something like that. The county cops are not going to get over excited over small thefts like that even if they have security camera video of the thief. The thief will most likely come back, destroy the camera and steal even more. Heck people break into businesses with security cameras all the time. And they know the cameras are there. Yet it happens again and again.
Here campfire wood that is going to be used in a state park has to be certified by species to be disease/critter free by DNR. They sell small bundles, 6-8 pieces of wood 4" across around here for what I consider outrageous prices. People buy it so I guess it's really fair. The folks camping at resorts and at the state parks want wood for campfires. If the price was too high they wouldn't buy it. But they do.
Rick
Couple of years ago my wife wanted to try selling some eggs and veggies with a trailer up by the road with honor system payment. About the 3rd time she had stuff just stolen I told her enough and I stopped hauling the trailer up there everyday. I wasn't mad, I just refused to make us victims any longer. The funny part is had someone bother to drive into the house and told us they really needed the food that was stolen we would have given it to them. Total theft amounted to about 25 bucks. I think about the only real solution is to man something like that. The county cops are not going to get over excited over small thefts like that even if they have security camera video of the thief. The thief will most likely come back, destroy the camera and steal even more. Heck people break into businesses with security cameras all the time. And they know the cameras are there. Yet it happens again and again.
Here campfire wood that is going to be used in a state park has to be certified by species to be disease/critter free by DNR. They sell small bundles, 6-8 pieces of wood 4" across around here for what I consider outrageous prices. People buy it so I guess it's really fair. The folks camping at resorts and at the state parks want wood for campfires. If the price was too high they wouldn't buy it. But they do.
Rick
I know this is an old post but I was trolling through Firewood vending forums and saw it and figured I would put in my 2 cents. We have firewood vending machines in Texas and a lot more modern than the firewood express. But for State parks and other camp sites there is an ongoing transition to making people buy from known local sources, on the park itself or certified heat treated to stem the tide on spreading trees diseases and invasive species.....camp fires are more for the "experience" rather than home heating and the higher prices reflect increased costs compared to roadside and gas station sales. Also the convenience factor... Kind of like paying $8 at a ball game for a beer instead of$1 at the store. Also, if you buy from the Park you are supporting the park and helping them maintain that experience. Do I feel guilty about selling $5000 in bagged firewood at 10 parks during Thanksgiving week?....No ....and The campers and Park Rangers think it is great and we rarely ever get negative feedback as the campers are free to smuggle it in or get it from an approved source... outside the park, but that would require them to put down their beer, get in the car and go searching
rockyridgefarm
Well-known Member
Dunno if it would help, but maybe you could post a sign that says "proceeds go to a good cause". Never mind the "good cause" is keeping your old tractors running.
It sounds like you don't really NEED the money, and the firewood really isn't worth anything. The value is in your labor. It would chap my rear if someone was stealing my labor, too.
You gotta ask yourself - Is the money I make from the honest people worth more than the aggravation of losing from the dishonest people?
It sounds like you don't really NEED the money, and the firewood really isn't worth anything. The value is in your labor. It would chap my rear if someone was stealing my labor, too.
You gotta ask yourself - Is the money I make from the honest people worth more than the aggravation of losing from the dishonest people?
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