School Bus Chassis

Wondering if anyone has ever pulled a school bus body off the chassis? If so, how big of a deal was it?

What type of school bus flat nose or
conventional? Make of body bluebird,
Thomas, international?

I can remember that someone was asking a couple years ago about making something like a toy hauler out of one and was Told that the bodies are fairly flimsy and that they rot quickly because they have a layer of wood under the rubber floor mat.

My dad and I had 6 Diamond T buses. We made 2 bale wagons from them, sold one and kept the other for several years. It was too big to pull behind the baler, and
held 160 small squares. To get the body off, we blue flamed the mount bolts and lifted it up on 4X4s under the back, mid body and front. Using 8 tom bottles and
cribbing. An inch at a time on each side. then dragged the chassis out from under it. (The 4X4s went through holes in the sheet metal!) we made tongues that
moved the drag link back and forth behind the steering axle. Worth it? Kinda. Jim

Others are going to know more but..... my
dad used to drive bus. All of them I have
seen are big straight ladder type frames.
They are built so in a bad accident the
body and frame will separate. Least this is
what I have read and seen In several photos
of accidents. You are going to need
something pretty dang big to lift the body
off the frame. Maybe dump the bus on its
side and when the frame is finally cut
loose everything will fall apart. Just
crawl around and cut everything you can
find that holds it together. Some of those
babys have huge gas tanks. Real score if
you need a storage tank. Just remember..
school buses are Really built though. Let
us see what others say.

(quoted from post at 18:36:04 01/19/19)
I can remember that someone was asking a couple years ago about making something like a toy hauler out of one and was Told that the bodies are fairly flimsy and that they rot quickly because they have a layer of wood under the rubber floor mat.

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Floor is offered in steel or wood. Our 350 Thomas’ have wood floors. Not sure on our 50 Blue Birds or the 250 new IC’s.

The body is all screwed together if you want to take it apart a piece at a time. Basically sheet metal panels screwed to a bow frame.
-Scott

Wow Jim that would work really well. Very time consuming but that is how you would change out the trucks under a railroad car. Good suggestion.

For to set and use for storage or to junk and just get the frame? Big difference in what you need to do.

Yes, it's not a big deal.

(quoted from post at 21:24:38 01/19/19) For to set and use for storage or to junk and just get the frame? Big difference in what you need to do.

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No use for the body.....it would be disposed of somehow. I just want the operational, ladder style chassis. The intent is to make it into a customized hay hauler. It should be able to handle the weight. If not.........bad idea.

Was thinking a flat nose transit style to get the driver position as far forward as possible. Ideally, it would be an IH DT466 chassis. Diesel engine, Allison transmission. Smallest one I can find. A lot of those were used by Thomas. Found what I think is a decent one for about $2,000.

But if a big job to split apart and if not up to the task if you do, bad idea.

we have a couple guys here that did something like that, they cut the body off at the floor. one uses it for hauling water and spray and the other uses it for round bales. they also cut behind the driver and closed for the cab.

Back in the 1950's dad made a buck rake from an old bus. He put the body on skids and pulled it into the woods next to a pond for a playhouse and to get inside when ice skating. It was unique and fun, I wish it was still there.

In the mid 90's helped a fellow install a glider kit in a Blue Bird school bus. The original had been in a front end collision. Damage was done to the front clip. The laws prohibited the repair to the front end for use as a school bus again so he research it and found he could put a new glider kit under it. He bought the bus as a wreck so it wasn't going to be insurance job. The wrecked bus was only 3 years old, beside the collision damage the rest of the bus was in excellent condition.
As Jim stated it was an inch by inch bus raising, bottle jacks and cribbing removed as many bolts as possible with out torching and had to torch of few. Slowly pulled the frame out had to do a lot of jockeying to get it out. It was to my surprise how ridged the body was as the frame twisted and torque to clear it. As we moved the old frame away that thing looked like a long wet noodle all bowed and twisted as it was pulled up in field next to the shop.
The closest delivery of the glider was about 25 miles away to a IH dealer so he had opted to drive it home. Quite a site to see him pulling in with helmet on driving a 40' frame with just a hood covering the engine him on a padded milkcrate. Wired so back lights so some what legal . He did encounter the local leo that just shook his head and smiled.
We reassembled it in reverse order of disassembly quite a project. all while he ran full time bus company and I working full time elsewhere. Without labor cost the project cost him 1/3 of the price of a new bus. With the proper inspections he put it into service for 7 years the remainder of the original bus's legal usable life.
This guy has been my mentor for many years before this and I still consider him that to this day.
To answer the original post can be done easier that we did it, we were trying to salvage everything as we went. they are remarkably ridged and can withstand a lot of jockeying around the frames are very flexible but strong, mostly due to the length. The ride home from the dealer that day he said it was like spring board because it flexed as he hit bumps or ridges in the road.

(quoted from post at 09:09:54 01/20/19) In the mid 90's helped a fellow install a glider kit in a Blue Bird school bus. The original had been in a front end collision. Damage was done to the front clip. The laws prohibited the repair to the front end for use as a school bus again so he research it and found he could put a new glider kit under it. He bought the bus as a wreck so it wasn't going to be insurance job. The wrecked bus was only 3 years old, beside the collision damage the rest of the bus was in excellent condition.
As Jim stated it was an inch by inch bus raising, bottle jacks and cribbing removed as many bolts as possible with out torching and had to torch of few. Slowly pulled the frame out had to do a lot of jockeying to get it out. It was to my surprise how ridged the body was as the frame twisted and torque to clear it. As we moved the old frame away that thing looked like a long wet noodle all bowed and twisted as it was pulled up in field next to the shop.
The closest delivery of the glider was about 25 miles away to a IH dealer so he had opted to drive it home. Quite a site to see him pulling in with helmet on driving a 40' frame with just a hood covering the engine him on a padded milkcrate. Wired so back lights so some what legal . He did encounter the local leo that just shook his head and smiled.
We reassembled it in reverse order of disassembly quite a project. all while he ran full time bus company and I working full time elsewhere. Without labor cost the project cost him 1/3 of the price of a new bus. With the proper inspections he put it into service for 7 years the remainder of the original bus's legal usable life.
This guy has been my mentor for many years before this and I still consider him that to this day.
To answer the original post can be done easier that we did it, we were trying to salvage everything as we went. [b:3f1fd9448e]they are remarkably ridged and can withstand a lot of jockeying around the frames are very flexible but strong, mostly due to the length.[/b:3f1fd9448e] The ride home from the dealer that day he said it was like spring board because it flexed as he hit bumps or ridges in the road.

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At the risk of sounding stupid......what is a glider kit?

Also, I'm scratching my head trying to understand how can it be both rigid and flexible at the same time?

As to how they come to be, it's my understanding that a lot of these are built in Conway, Arkansas. Chassis arrives however they show up and a bus body is fitted to it on the assembly line. So main goal would be to reverse the assembly process to pull the body off. Except most of us would not have the overhead cranes and winches the factory does, so getting it airborne not so easy?

And then what to do with the body? Don't know if a scrap yard would buy it by the pound?

A wrecked bus, as long as engine and tranny are not damaged, could be repurposed for a lot of things. Or it could be a lot of them are simply parted out and scrapped?

Sounds like a fun project, maybe more time-consuming than you'd planned. I also image the resulting mess is going to leave a pretty big footprint, so I'd plan to have a big area in which to work safely.

I remember visiting relatives north of Detroit as a kid, taking the highway through the motor city and marveling at all the new vehicles and variations on that theme. I especially liked the bare-chassis trucks destined to be school buses or straight trucks or whatever. Had never seen that before.

For the remark about scrapping buses, I've seen Baltimore's city buses piled about five high at the scrap yard where I've taken my metal in the past. Sometimes 20-30 of them at a time--looked like the buses were just taken off the streets and sent to the crusher. Hard to believe they didn't have any more value than that.

We’ve sold a bit over 100 buses in the past couple of years at a surplus auction. I don’t know how the last bunch did, but the group before that, 30 buses, went for an average of less than $1K a piece. All were running, had good tires and good batteries. These were @ 15 year old Thomas’ with Cummins 5.9, Allison 3500, and air brakes. Mileage varied anywhere from 75K to 250K.

-Scott

No sure about a glider kit on a school bus since the entire body is made by the bus builder and the running chassis is made by a truck mfg.
On big trucks a glider kit is a new frame, cab, hood, radiator, front axle and suspension assembly with no engine or transmission, you can get them with or without rear suspension and axles, can also come with a new sleeper if needed.
Local sawmill I worked at ordered a 16 Peterbilt rolling glider, installed a reman 525 hp Cat, reman 18 spd and reman rear axles.
All reman parts have warranty but not as long as new, engine is a 03 emissions engine so no DEF fluid, no regen or particulate filter.
Using all reman parts they still saved nearly $50K over a new truck and don't have all of the new emissions garbage.
Because of the emissions loophole EPA is trying to outlaw gliders.

Truck and bus frames are rigid in length to support the weights they haul without bowing, they have some side to side flex for traveling on uneven terrain.
For buses once the body is mounted most of the side flex is eliminated.

(quoted from post at 12:47:39 01/20/19) We’ve sold a bit over 100 buses in the past couple of years at a surplus auction. I don’t know how the last bunch did, but the group before that, 30 buses, went for an average of less than $1K a piece. All were running, had good tires and good batteries. These were @ 15 year old Thomas’ with Cummins 5.9, Allison 3500, and air brakes. Mileage varied anywhere from 75K to 250K.

-Scott

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Pretty good business scraping out old school buses, buy them for $1K each, sell the 5.9 Cummins for $2500-3000, if it has flip up hood sell that for $500-1000 and then get $1000+ for the rest at a scrap yard.
Pretty big demand for the older 5.9 Cummins engines.
The flip up hood for my F-800 came from a school bus.

No sure about a glider kit on a school bus since the entire body is made by the bus builder and the running chassis is made by a truck mfg.
On big trucks a glider kit is a new frame, cab, hood, radiator, front axle and suspension assembly with no engine or transmission, you can get them with or without rear suspension and axles, can also come with a new sleeper if needed.
Local sawmill I worked at ordered a 16 Peterbilt rolling glider, installed a reman 525 hp Cat, reman 18 spd and reman rear axles.
All reman parts have warranty but not as long as new, engine is a 03 emissions engine so no DEF fluid, no regen or particulate filter.
Using all reman parts they still saved nearly $50K over a new truck and don't have all of the new emissions garbage.
Because of the emissions loophole EPA is trying to outlaw gliders.

Truck and bus frames are rigid in length to support the weights they haul without bowing, they have some side to side flex for traveling on uneven terrain.
For buses once the body is mounted most of the side flex is eliminated.

try farm show magazine
school bus conversion

There is a place about 40 mile from me that has probably a thousand busses setting that evidently are considered to old to be used for hauling children. But probably most are as good as a brand new bus.

(quoted from post at 12:19:13 01/20/19) try farm show magazine
school bus conversion

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There we go......brilliant minds think alike???? My idea is along the lines of some of the hay haulers, but a little more exotic.

I like the cost of their conversions........except those are 1980's costs. I'd be happy at 2x to 3x that today.

And if there was a guy with a knack, a shop, time on his hands and a desire to take on a project like this, we might ought to talk.

Modirt I should have elaborated. The Glider came from International trucks as a complete frame suspension driveline with everything that the vehicle needed to start drive for all intensive purposes was a completely functioning truck without the actual box or school buses body. The only body pieces were the hood and front bumper. Anything that was part of the school bus body was not included. The windshield and firewall to the emergency door in the rear were part of the original bus body including seats heaters and most of the lighting and wiring with exception of the headlights. This one had a harness that that just plugged in to from the chassis to the body and the wiring was pretty much done.
The body was constructed as unit that was extremely ridged. This repair had to be inspected by state inspectors specializing in school buses and were very particular about any cutting or modification to the body as it could flex and become compromised.

We noticed the flex of the chassis when starting to remove the bolts that held the body to the chassis starting in the back the chassis would droop binding the next set of bolts. We had to crib and jack in several spots as to support the chassis. The weight of the rear and just the chassis would drop the frame about 5-6 inches before we got in front of the rear axle. Reversely though we used that to our advantage when reassembling, just by putting pressure on the gapped area to easily put into place for bolting.
A Blue Bird rep had also visited to ensure we were following proper techniques for the repair. IIRC school buses had 9-10 years from new for a useful life as a school bus and to carry passengers. If the repair was not done in this manner it would not have been approved for passenger service again.
The kit from IH trucks was exactly what they delivered to the Blue Bird Body Company for installation in a new bus.
The body was the ridged part and the chassis flexed. Once together completely there was no negligible flex. I recall one of the inspectors counting bolts and bolt holes on the drawings to ensure they were all put in. Once completed and fully functioning it was then taken to a state inspection facility for school buses and thoroughly inspected before it could be placed in service again.
The removed chassis was parted out as the owner had several other buses that were similar and the chassis was cut up for scrap. We had considered cutting the frame down for a shorter truck but had not real use for it.
I did gain a healthy respect for how school bus bodies were built.

Thanks for putting all that together. Helped a lot.

So the part I'm interested in harvesting from an existing bus is that chassis.....what you seem to be calling a "glider".

Get the right bus and the chassis / drive train will have a lot of life left in it.....as functional for some uses as a new one and at a fraction of the cost......if you can get the body and chassis apart.

As a hay hauler, if you do the bed support framing right, it should be good for hauling 5 ton......10,000 pounds. Maybe more? And yes the bed framing, like on a school bus, has to be part of the structural support to keep it all from flexing.

Flat nose transit style has the driver seat and controls right over the front bumper. With luck, a flatbed frame could mount over that, coast to coast and all controls, etc. stay where they are. Flat nose transit styles are also more maneuverable with front steering wheels moved several feet back from the front bumper as opposed to right behind it.

With some I've heard of, the engine was moved back and lowered to retain access to it and to lower the deck height. If you did that, it may not matter......transit of or other style. But then you may have to re-create the driver position.....seat, steering wheel, throttles, brakes, switches etc. Not as easy as using what already exists. Or again, those guys who know how it all works and a knack for fabrication of linkages, etc. could probably move the engine and retain the controls up front.

If the transit style already has the engine as low as it needs to go, then it's all grins and giggles and good to go as is.

You need one of them city buses that lower when stopped to let off their passengers :roll:
Kidding aside I have no experience with the transit or flat nose versions only to know guys that ran them said they like the maneuverability but also said they were going the first one to the wreck.
Getting them apart was not difficult but very time comsuming, the way we did it was to roll the chassis out all the while jacking and lowering different sections to clear the rear wheels as they came forward. The worst part was clearing the entrance of the body(the steps) that come down to 8-9 inches off the ground that meant we had to jack the the front of the body at the steps probably 5' off the floor to clear it. If you aren't worried about body cut it apart and you have clear sailing. As suggested flop it on it's side, cut it lose and yank the chassis back down and out.
I don't know if it would work for you but I have seen several conversions where you cut the very back of the body off, remove however much of the body you desire and reattach the back end to what remains. That way you keep all driver controls and a cab intact and even a few seats if you want. At that point
construct whatever body or framing that works for your needs.
Sounds like you got yourself a project in the making. Good luck with it sounds like something I'd try.
Incidentally Blue Bird referred to it as a full roller and IH dealer called it a glider. I came to know what a glider was as Destroked had described, commonly used just as he had stated.
It was a new one to me at the time.

We just had seven '05 Thomas' with C7 CAT's and Allison MD3060's go on eBid Nashville today if anyone's interested. These are the big boys, 84 passenger.

https://ebid.nashville.gov/AuctionCategoryList.aspx?catid=3

Any questions on them, let me know.

-Scott