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Stoneman44
Member
Is this what we're calling a Politician's pocket these days?
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
525 million is a drop in the bucket. I still have friends in the industry. From what they have told me. The total is over 200 billion. One Korean company took their 23 million and went home. People got rich off of it. The American people got screwed.
It isn't forgotten. I've seen this subject come up every so often on other forums. But what are we going to do about it? All we can really do is show our displeasure in the voting booth. But there again is a problem. Folks that tend to claim the politicians need changed out don't include their politician in that. They go into the voting booth and vote for the incumbent time and again.
Rick
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Another example why the Gov't should not be subsidizing businesses,let the free market work,once there is demand and the product is cost effective it won't need any subsidy.Plus subsidies mask the real cost of a product.
Of course I doubt many here would want that standard applied to farming(LOL)525 Million$ ain't pocket change in the latest Farm Welfare Bill.
Of course I doubt many here would want that standard applied to farming(LOL)525 Million$ ain't pocket change in the latest Farm Welfare Bill.
It is easily forgotten because it was brought to you by B H O . add fast a furious to the list, the shovel ready projects that were not ready and many more I forgot about. Same way with H R C and the lost emails that were under subpoena and damaged servers and hard drives. and lets not forget Benghazi and all those lies about it being caused from a video.
2 tier justice system. 1 for the civilians and one for the elite !
2 tier justice system. 1 for the civilians and one for the elite !
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
It should 0.00%
You got it Ian. An awful lot is handed out to the food program. There really are people who need it. How many though really do or don't need it? The school lunch jazz. The previous twits really messed it up with pie in the sky "health" lunches. Kids just threw it out. Also this breakfast stuff. Now summer time schools have to provide lunches. Never ending bloating.
I seriously doubt any of it went to China. On the day the loan was written(and guaranteed by the feds), the CEO of Solyndra was granted 10 million unrestricted shares of stock in the company. Within 35 days of the grant, all those shares were negotiated on the open stock market, thus vaporizing the trail of the loan money.
More than likely, the grant stock was sold just prior to the liquidation filing. Then, the SEC failed to reverse the sale of the large amount of stock, and also failed to claw back the proceeds. The money more than likely went to fund the campaigns of the people who approved, and supported the original loan guarantee. Namely, external_link, Boxer, Feinstein, etc, while maybe 15-20% was retained by Gronet as a bonus for facilitating the laundering of the cash.
Hay hay hay
Well-known Member
Well that is not our only debacle....made a mistake to start and we just keep compounding it...
$60.45 billion has been spent rebuilding Iraq, more than $100 billion rebuilding Afghanistan. That is 300 times Solindra
and no end in sight.
$60.45 billion has been spent rebuilding Iraq, more than $100 billion rebuilding Afghanistan. That is 300 times Solindra
and no end in sight.
I seriously doubt any of it went to China. On the day the loan was written(and guaranteed by the feds), the CEO of Solyndra was granted 10 million unrestricted shares of stock in the company. Within 35 days of the grant, all those shares were negotiated on the open stock market, thus vaporizing the trail of the loan money.
More than likely, the grant stock was sold just prior to the liquidation filing. Then, the SEC failed to reverse the sale of the large amount of stock, and also failed to claw back the proceeds. The money more than likely went to fund the campaigns of the people who approved, and supported the original loan guarantee. Namely, external_link, Boxer, Feinstein, etc, while maybe 15-20% was retained by Gronet as a bonus for facilitating the laundering of the cash.
I seriously doubt any of it went to China. On the day the loan was written(and guaranteed by the feds), the CEO of Solyndra was granted 10 million unrestricted shares of stock in the company. Within 35 days of the grant, all those shares were negotiated on the open stock market, thus vaporizing the trail of the loan money.
More than likely, the grant stock was sold just prior to the liquidation filing. Then, the SEC failed to reverse the sale of the large amount of stock, and also failed to claw back the proceeds. The money more than likely went to fund the campaigns of the people who approved, and supported the original loan guarantee. You know the names and party. While maybe 15-20% was retained by Gronet as a bonus for facilitating the laundering of the cash
Hay hay hay
Well-known Member
I do think we need to recognize that many things we enjoy like satellite transmission is based on technology developed by NASA (govt.) Our jet planes came out of military development programs. And many of our lifesaving breakthroughs came due to government subsidized research. One simple example is the government research that proved that Tobacco causes many diseases. The tobacco industry would never have funded that research. Tobacco still kills 480,000 people a year.
But generally, I agree that government should not be subsidizing business. The line between subsidies and encouraging new developments can get very blurred. However, I totally disagree with states subsidizing companies to locate there. If Amazon had no state incentives they would have built the same 2 new headquarters. We just spent billions on a zero sum project. Toyota would still build plants here if no state gave them a dime.
But generally, I agree that government should not be subsidizing business. The line between subsidies and encouraging new developments can get very blurred. However, I totally disagree with states subsidizing companies to locate there. If Amazon had no state incentives they would have built the same 2 new headquarters. We just spent billions on a zero sum project. Toyota would still build plants here if no state gave them a dime.
Crazy Horse
Well-known Member
How could anyone ask questions about such a piddly amount when the government debt in the US will soon reach $25 trillion? Up here it's just as bad relatively speaking, I think we are at almost $700 billion. Only 1/10 the population of course and military spending equates to a tiny fraction of what you guys spend.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Tobacco would have never been what it was to start with without Gov't help.And since its killing 480,000 people a year proves that Gov't research can't cure stupidity.
Northvale PA
Member
A solar panel plant was built in Clarksville TN. It never opened. most of it was was then demolished for scrap. Apparently, that is where about $1.2 billion went. True story. News article does not mention Solindra but that kind of money doesn?t grow on trees. My gut tells me the US taxpayer got skunked on that one.
Hay hay hay
Well-known Member
Sounds good, please send me the details from 2 reliable and unbiased sources so I can support you.
Hay hay hay
Well-known Member
Please explain.
Sure was good for this area , trucks ran 24 hours a day for over a year, 6 feet of stone on 78 acres , lots of trickle down jobs . The state of Tennessee got took for some money but all the construction money was a boom for awhile. Google is now taking over part of the site.
Northvale PA
Member
I disagree. That investment was someone?s money thrown down a rat hole. Then, more money was spent to demolish the buildings and more money is being spent a 3rd time by G00gle. Inevitably the tax payer was tapped each time. Either thru grants or tax incentives, land deals, etc. Waste is waste, in the end. Eventually, the money gravy train will run out.
The figure that was quoted by the boss hog was actually our total foreign aid budget for this year is 54 billion going to all countries of the world, not to Afghanistan only. He used that number in some speeches in comparing the cost of a southern border barrier in how it related to the annual cost of foreign aid.The source was the boss hog , I figured he knew the dollar amount he signed for.
bwillett
Member
- Location
- West Central Ohio
Roughly 80% of the farm bill is consumed by Food Stamps, and other Welfare having NOTHING to do with actual agriculture. Look it up.
I sure do agree with you about waste , but my point is or was that it was not all waste , there was quite a bit of local good. Jobs fed more jobs, do not think much government money went into the tearing it down and now Tennessee has some real stiff claw back clauses on industry after this deal. I really think these folks intended to manufacture the product , thing is China could just build it cheaper and the market shrank or at least did not come around like they predicted. I for one think when government gets out of wind power and solar power both industries will certainly drop back. I certainly agree with you that government spending has to be curtailed but not sure who or how it is going to happen.
Hay hay hay
Well-known Member
So make your argument. How much for Afghanistan and Iraq? That is the problem? All our bosses' priorities are explained in vague generalities. Do you run your life, and make decisions on vague generalities.
Rent is too much, gas is expensive, wages are too low. Please be specific. Sad, Fantastic horrible, mean are just words.
Please excuse me for being an engineer and a businessman that expects facts.
If you want help with your tractor you can not just say "don't work good"...be specific. We should expect no less of our leader.
Rent is too much, gas is expensive, wages are too low. Please be specific. Sad, Fantastic horrible, mean are just words.
Please excuse me for being an engineer and a businessman that expects facts.
If you want help with your tractor you can not just say "don't work good"...be specific. We should expect no less of our leader.
It's not only food stamps that are not listed or counted as welfare.
Food Stamps/SNAP School meals too under USDA.
Heat assistance under Department of Energy.
Rent assistance under Department of Housing/Rural/Urban Development.
Medical assistance under Department of Health.
Education assistance (CEP program) Department of Education.
Then our politicians both with straight faces claim the military budget is bloated. Guess what's hidden in the military budget? Some of Foreign Aid in the form of military aid (training and equipment) when that should be under the Department of State.
Just our politicians at work like they have been for over 6 decades.
Rick
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Actually its a lot more if all the food giveaways are included.Farming and welfare are in the same law for a good reason.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Its up to Trillion$ because Piddly Amount$ X Million$ of times add up to big money eventually.
Crazy Horse
Well-known Member
Is that how it works? Hmmm, never thought of that, obviously I should have paid attention to Mr. Clement when he taught us our multiplication tables in elementary school.
Yes, but! The reason we had 9/11 was because we had been backing the Afghanis during the Soviet (remember the USSR?) invasion. When the Kremlin fell, we packed up and left the Afghans. That caused a lot of bad blood because of broken promises. Should we do the same thing all over again? I'd much rather see the money spent here, or better, left in our pockets. But at the same time I can understand not wanting to just pack up and leave as was done then. Tough choice.
Thing of it is if you can get them to build in your city or state the state and city both gain that many jobs, sometimes good paying jobs. That translates into increased home building and sales, increases in retail businesses and even more jobs and growth in general. That adds up to more property and sales taxes plus income taxes as the population swells to fill those jobs. So basically cities and states have to get these companies like Toyota and Amazon a reason to build in a particular area.
Rick
I consider it intellectually lazy, and somewhat disingenuous to tar both sides with the same brush - without a shred of evidence. On the left we had a <name> Global Initiative. A fund where hundreds of millions went in, and much of it went back out without any oversight. In a losing effort the left side outspent the right side by more than 2:1 per vote. It's in the public FEC filings for anyone to look up. Where did that money come from? We also know because the DNC told us that the candidate drained the coffers for herself, and none of the other potentials even had a chance.
Can the same evidence be shown on the other side? If so, bring it on. We've had a highly partisan 'investigation' going on for 18 months or so, and there's nothing there. A couple of swamp rats were caught lying, and one was caught enriching himself at the public trough, but so far - bupkis as it relates to the right campaign. Clean as a whistle.
So, I'm ready to hear about any nefarious funding like the <name> Global Initiative on the right, which - BTW promptly went BK once that side lost the election Can we say 'pay to play'? Lets hear it, the world would like to see the campaign on the right's dirty laundry.
Andy Martin
Well-known Member
I think it's a hoot they created the Super Delegates to get their girl nominated and ------ off a lot of dedicated party loyalists.
Don't get me wrong. I know the left is dirty, but so is a lot of the right. That irks me to no end because I'm as conservative as you can get. You want to see how the right engages in the same type of big dollar, pay to play, help my friends who will pay me back stuff? Just type into a search engine "Repu blican charged with insider trading" or "Repu blican charged with fraud" or "Repu blican charged with malfeasance" or "Repub lican charged with steering contracts to donor". Lots of it out there. Lets face it, the R's had the Wh, Senate and House for 2 years, what did they do? Fought tooth and nail against a guy who wanted to drain the swamp. He'd try to kick the dam out and they be busy beavers, making sure to stem the flow! It's maddening.
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