OT Check Engine Light Came On.....

sixbales

Member
Toyota Tacoma 2006, 160K miles. A few weeks ago, the "check engine" light came on. The code translated to ?Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1)?. Usually this means your catalytic converter needs to be replaced or there is a problem with your O2 (oxygen) sensors. But this was not an O2 sensor code. A Toyota catalytic converter costs over a grand. I would change the O2 sensors before buying a catalytic converter.

As a first step, I bought a bottle of catalytic system cleaner ($25) at Auto Zone and put it the tank (1/8 gauge reading). Took the truck out on a 4-lane highway with a 75 mph speed limit, and put 32 miles on it. Erased the code and it hasn't come back on with more than 600 miles driven since, but I expect it will...just a matter of time.

What do you guys do in these situations??
 

Google O2 sensor risers

O2 "o2 sensor spacer"

How To Fix A Catalytic Converter Check Engine Code With Spark Plug Non Foulers

Yes I have added a can of BG K44 and cleaned up a converter :)...
 
That is one of the "cause and effect" codes.

It can be a bad converter, but why?

A number of problems can contribute to a fouled converter. Replacing the converter will probably be the end result, but if there are other problems it could be a short lived and expensive fix.

There are generic converters available, most muffler shops can install one for less than a factory converter. Not sure about the quality, but haven't heard anything bad about them, but not done it personally.

Here is some more info.
Converter Code
 
I have not put on a convertor in 16 years but the last one was about $45.00 cost. They are universal ones out there and they are legal.
 

universal converters are junk and a waist of money... BTDT even the scrap converter guys don't want them you would be lucky if they would buy it...

The best bang for the buck is to buy a direct replacement from advance auto they will warranty it for 5 years... Try that with a universal from a exhaust shop BTDT you are chit out of luck..
 
Six Bales,
I bought a 2005 Tacoma 5 yrs ago with 127,000 miles.......prior owner said it needed 02 sensors.
The codes said it needed new catalytic converters.
I went the spark plug extender route....used two extenders on each of the downstream 02 sensors.
Knock on wood......check engine light has never come back on.
This is not my prime vehicle so I have put only about 15,000 miles on it in that time.
The truck runs fine but the mileage isn't great.
However, they aren't known for great mileage anyway.
Shortly after I bought the truck, Toyota gave me a new frame, new rear springs, lower control arms and new brake and gas lines.
So.....if I finally have to spring for the $1,200 or so for new converters, I won't feel too bad. LOL
 
I'll start with a bit of education.
How do oxygen sensors work? The PCM (computer, or whatever you choose to call it) provides a .500volt reference signal to each oxygen sensor. As the sensor is exposed to exiting exhaust gases, it reacts by generating a voltage. Under .500 volts is seen as lean, over that voltage is seen as rich. Every time that sensor voltage changes from over to under the reference voltage, it is called switching. The rate at which this switching occurs is monitored by the PCM. If the sensor stays on the rich or lean side for too long or too often, the PCM generates a mixture code (P017x). Since there is a sensor before the catalyst as well as one after the catalyst, this gives the PCM the ability to monitor the efficiency level of the catalyst by comparing the switching rates of the upstream sensor to the downstream sensor. When the PCM determines that the catalyst is losing its effectiveness, it will generate the P0420 series codes.

In this case, once you have generated that code, it usually means that the catalyst has reached its end of life. Changing oxygen sensors will not likely do much more than cost you money. If the sensor or sensors were bad, they would have already generated a code telling you that. Since they did not generate such a code, changing them will probably not fix the problem.

Next a few words about catalytic converters. A catalyst by definition is a material that alters a chemical reaction without becoming part of that reaction. Automotive catalysts are designed to last the life of the vehicle that they are installed in. They are exposed to very hot and corrosive exhaust gases exiting the engine. The most likely reason for failure is contamination. It is said that the zinc in oils used in flat tappet engine is one source of contamination. Other metals like lead also cause contamination of the catalyst. It is quite likely that if you are able to de-contaminate the catalyst using that cleaner product, it will probably help more than changing sensors.

A word about the "anti fouler" trick. Using anti fouler is done by removing the downstream sensor and installing an anti fouler in between the sensor and the catalyst. The "science" behind it is that it theoretically will slow down the switching rate of the downstream sensor which causes the PCM to see a better efficiency level of the catalyst. I have tried this on several vehicles, but have not had any success in eliminating the P0420 code this way. Your results may vary.

After you used the cleaning material and drove the vehicle over 600 miles without the code returning, the cleaner would appear to have worked. By this mileage, the PCM is apparently satisfied that the problem has been resolved.

Now a word about trouble codes.

There are normally 3 types of codes. Most common is what is called a "hard fault" code. this is a code that is generated by a failure of a circuit or sensor that is always present. An example would be a failed TP sensor. The PCM sees the voltage reading from that sensor to be out of range, and immediately generates a code that will not clear until the hard fault is repaired.

Next are codes generated by "monitors." Monitors are areas of memory in the PCM that store information about the operation of the engine in real world operating conditions. Several functions are monitored and data is stored about the operation of these functions. Among those that are monitored are the oxygen sensor circuits, EGR circuits, evaporative emission circuit, catalytic converter efficiency, and several others that vary by make, model, and equipped options. Codes for these functions are only generated after certain conditions are met when each if the monitors has stored sufficient data. When the data is not within normal limits, a code is generated as in the case of your catalytic converter.

The third type of code is a "memory" code. These codes do not normally cause the "check engine" light to turn on. They are stored as possibly intermittent incidents, and do not generate a fault code until a fault has occurred enough times to satisfy the PCM's programming to cause the MIL (check engine) light to come on.

Last, but not least, I suggest that if you are going to attempt doing your own diagnosis and possibly your own repair work, you should invest in a decent scanner for the job. I got one that is updateable from Auto Zone for under $250 that has a lot of capabilities - including reading sensors live, clearing codes, and a few other functions. With repair shops charging over $100/hour for this type of work, it would pay for itself in very short order - and in the process would save you a pant load of money.

Sorry for such a long post, but I hope you did read through it and learn something useful from it.
 

A lot of years and many miles for still having the original O2 sensors . A lot of fuel has been wasted by running rich with an old sensor .
 

Jimg.allentown, good information! thanks! Now instead of thinking of you blasting your horns at someone trying to merge into traffic I may think of this instead!
 
(quoted from post at 00:49:34 01/05/19) I'll start with a bit of education.
How do oxygen sensors work? The PCM (computer, or whatever you choose to call it) provides a .500volt reference signal to each oxygen sensor. As the sensor is exposed to exiting exhaust gases, it reacts by generating a voltage. Under .500 volts is seen as lean, over that voltage is seen as rich. Every time that sensor voltage changes from over to under the reference voltage, it is called switching. The rate at which this switching occurs is monitored by the PCM. If the sensor stays on the rich or lean side for too long or too often, the PCM generates a mixture code (P017x). Since there is a sensor before the catalyst as well as one after the catalyst, this gives the PCM the ability to monitor the efficiency level of the catalyst by comparing the switching rates of the upstream sensor to the downstream sensor. When the PCM determines that the catalyst is losing its effectiveness, it will generate the P0420 series codes.

In this case, once you have generated that code, it usually means that the catalyst has reached its end of life. Changing oxygen sensors will not likely do much more than cost you money. If the sensor or sensors were bad, they would have already generated a code telling you that. Since they did not generate such a code, changing them will probably not fix the problem.

Next a few words about catalytic converters. A catalyst by definition is a material that alters a chemical reaction without becoming part of that reaction. Automotive catalysts are designed to last the life of the vehicle that they are installed in. They are exposed to very hot and corrosive exhaust gases exiting the engine. The most likely reason for failure is contamination. It is said that the zinc in oils used in flat tappet engine is one source of contamination. Other metals like lead also cause contamination of the catalyst. It is quite likely that if you are able to de-contaminate the catalyst using that cleaner product, it will probably help more than changing sensors.

A word about the "anti fouler" trick. Using anti fouler is done by removing the downstream sensor and installing an anti fouler in between the sensor and the catalyst. The "science" behind it is that it theoretically will slow down the switching rate of the downstream sensor which causes the PCM to see a better efficiency level of the catalyst. I have tried this on several vehicles, but have not had any success in eliminating the P0420 code this way. Your results may vary.

After you used the cleaning material and drove the vehicle over 600 miles without the code returning, the cleaner would appear to have worked. By this mileage, the PCM is apparently satisfied that the problem has been resolved.

Now a word about trouble codes.

There are normally 3 types of codes. Most common is what is called a "hard fault" code. this is a code that is generated by a failure of a circuit or sensor that is always present. An example would be a failed TP sensor. The PCM sees the voltage reading from that sensor to be out of range, and immediately generates a code that will not clear until the hard fault is repaired.

Next are codes generated by "monitors." Monitors are areas of memory in the PCM that store information about the operation of the engine in real world operating conditions. Several functions are monitored and data is stored about the operation of these functions. Among those that are monitored are the oxygen sensor circuits, EGR circuits, evaporative emission circuit, catalytic converter efficiency, and several others that vary by make, model, and equipped options. Codes for these functions are only generated after certain conditions are met when each if the monitors has stored sufficient data. When the data is not within normal limits, a code is generated as in the case of your catalytic converter.

The third type of code is a "memory" code. These codes do not normally cause the "check engine" light to turn on. They are stored as possibly intermittent incidents, and do not generate a fault code until a fault has occurred enough times to satisfy the PCM's programming to cause the MIL (check engine) light to come on.

Last, but not least, I suggest that if you are going to attempt doing your own diagnosis and possibly your own repair work, you should invest in a decent scanner for the job. I got one that is updateable from Auto Zone for under $250 that has a lot of capabilities - including reading sensors live, clearing codes, and a few other functions. With repair shops charging over $100/hour for this type of work, it would pay for itself in very short order - and in the process would save you a pant load of money.

Sorry for such a long post, but I hope you did read through it and learn something useful from it.

Excellent post. Probably wasted your time creating it though.
 
Depending on the way the system is programmed, the state of the sensor has different effects. On some systems, like GM and early Chryslers, the oxygen sensors were used as more of a feedback device. In those cases, you are quite correct. BUT, on the more modern OBD2 systems, depending on the oxygen sensor as a feedback device is simply too slow and too late to meet modern emission requirements.
Oxygen sensors are strictly "after the fact" sensors. By the time the system has reacted to a rich or lean condition, too many more cycles have taken place. On the contemporary systems, mass air flow meters have replaced the old MAP and VAF sensors. They are much more accurate in determining air/fuel needs, and they can respond and correct fuel mixtures much faster than relying on an after combustion sensor. Faster and more powerful PCMs along with more and better sensors all over an engine leave the oxygen sensor in a secondary role of giving the rest of the system a "report card" so to speak.
 
There?s a lot of reasons the cat efficiency can be low, in my experience it?s usually excess fuel being dumped out the engine via misfires that the cat can?t handle. Other common one up here in salt belt is the heat shields fall off and under light load in cold weather the efficiency drops too low. This one often happens coasting down hills in -30 c in a vehicle all the cat heat shields have fallen off of.

If you clean the misfires cause up, sometimes the cat will cook itself clean.
 
I'll change the plugs today just in case one might be misfiring randomly.


Several years ago, on my wife's car, I had the number 5 coil go out and I replaced it promptly, but the catalytic converter on that bank was permanently damaged as a result of this misfire.
 

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