I have a friend that owns a house in Crawford County. Incredible scenery there with seemingly endless farms and plenty of Amish. When I get out of college and get a job (I’m 18 right now) I really want to buy a piece of property (50-200 acres) in Crawford or Erie County, or somewhere near there.
- Thread starter JohnV2000
- Start date
gene bender
Well-known Member
Better check the real estate prices
You still have plenty of homework to do if you have plans to farm it. For quite a number of locations in WNY 2,000 dollars per acre buys very marginal farmland with
limited cropping options. The Mennonites and Amish have exotic means of financing farmland which is reflected in their bids. For smaller farms the church will finance
at 1 percent APR for 50 years with a minimal amount down. Can you get the same deal? Unless you figure your job is going to cover all the financing you have a lot of
numbers to crunch. Even if you don't care about profitability there is the matter of getting bang for your buck. I'd want to know that this farm can do more than support
lower grade forage crops and small grains such as wheat and oats unless once again you don't care about that. Not trying to be a jerk but just trying to temper youthful
enthusiasm with some hard logic. One of the first lessons learned while at college while studying agricultural business was know your own strengths and weaknesses
and not guess as to the means of what the neighbors may have. The Amish may be able to pay 2,000 dollars per acre and make a go of it but that does not mean that
you can.
limited cropping options. The Mennonites and Amish have exotic means of financing farmland which is reflected in their bids. For smaller farms the church will finance
at 1 percent APR for 50 years with a minimal amount down. Can you get the same deal? Unless you figure your job is going to cover all the financing you have a lot of
numbers to crunch. Even if you don't care about profitability there is the matter of getting bang for your buck. I'd want to know that this farm can do more than support
lower grade forage crops and small grains such as wheat and oats unless once again you don't care about that. Not trying to be a jerk but just trying to temper youthful
enthusiasm with some hard logic. One of the first lessons learned while at college while studying agricultural business was know your own strengths and weaknesses
and not guess as to the means of what the neighbors may have. The Amish may be able to pay 2,000 dollars per acre and make a go of it but that does not mean that
you can.
Thanks for the information! I could definitely use some more knowledge, some I’m going to keep researching. I don’t have any plans of becoming a full-time farmer, but would like to grow crops for my own personal use and family/friends (maybe road side farm stand?). I was thinking corn, potatoes, lots of vegetables and fruits, maybe grapes. Are my dreams completely unrealistic?
How much land would I need to do what I’d like? If it costs $4,000 an acre, that would be do-able, but then I’d probably be limited to 40 or 50 acres.
How much land would I need to do what I’d like? If it costs $4,000 an acre, that would be do-able, but then I’d probably be limited to 40 or 50 acres.
A good place to start is with a soil map for the farm in question. This can be done at the county FSA office or it may be possible to retrieve on line. This will tell the
soils it will have and in general where they can be found on the farm. Associated material will tell the best uses for crops, pasture, or woodland. You also need to get an
idea as to the growing season and when last and first frost occur. Lots of land away from Lake Erie only has an 80-85 day growing season which for crops such as corn
is rather short. So it is way too early to know if the farm in question is a poor choice. Let the information from Cooperative Extension and the university system be your
guide. Lots of soils in the Northeast are deficient when it comes to drainage so vegetable crops can be grown for a profit. Know what is there for subsurface drainage
such as tile and ditches/creeks to outlet the water. The best ground in terms of texture can be rendered useless if the drainage is poor with expensive remedies being
the only alternative. It would be good if a seller would let you do a soil test if the preliminary stuff looks promising so you know what it will cost to hit the ground running
so to speak. We have talked land but if there are buildings it is important to know what condition they are in and if they can be repaired or need to be replaced.
Buildings in less than very good condition will be very expensive to deal with. What are you going to need for your planned operation? Are they tall enough? Wide
enough? Fire hazard?
soils it will have and in general where they can be found on the farm. Associated material will tell the best uses for crops, pasture, or woodland. You also need to get an
idea as to the growing season and when last and first frost occur. Lots of land away from Lake Erie only has an 80-85 day growing season which for crops such as corn
is rather short. So it is way too early to know if the farm in question is a poor choice. Let the information from Cooperative Extension and the university system be your
guide. Lots of soils in the Northeast are deficient when it comes to drainage so vegetable crops can be grown for a profit. Know what is there for subsurface drainage
such as tile and ditches/creeks to outlet the water. The best ground in terms of texture can be rendered useless if the drainage is poor with expensive remedies being
the only alternative. It would be good if a seller would let you do a soil test if the preliminary stuff looks promising so you know what it will cost to hit the ground running
so to speak. We have talked land but if there are buildings it is important to know what condition they are in and if they can be repaired or need to be replaced.
Buildings in less than very good condition will be very expensive to deal with. What are you going to need for your planned operation? Are they tall enough? Wide
enough? Fire hazard?
I don't know Western Pennsylvania that well once you get away from the northern counties including Erie. For your money to stretch you need to find a fixer upper but that
is far from obvious when just driving down past a place. If a farm is already growing a variety of crops including vegetables successfully most likely the price will be
substantially higher than 2,000 dollars per acre. You need a wise old sage that can be readily consulted and does not expect a fortune for doing so. Distance-wise I am too
far removed to be of any help once you get down into PA so maybe somebody here who lives in Western PA would volunteer. Also, don't be in a big hurry to find a diamond
in the rough as they do not stick right out and a lot of times take a lot of effort to find. I wish I had an easy answer but I do not. Patience, patience, patience.
is far from obvious when just driving down past a place. If a farm is already growing a variety of crops including vegetables successfully most likely the price will be
substantially higher than 2,000 dollars per acre. You need a wise old sage that can be readily consulted and does not expect a fortune for doing so. Distance-wise I am too
far removed to be of any help once you get down into PA so maybe somebody here who lives in Western PA would volunteer. Also, don't be in a big hurry to find a diamond
in the rough as they do not stick right out and a lot of times take a lot of effort to find. I wish I had an easy answer but I do not. Patience, patience, patience.
A place that has an older house and barn normally offers a price advantage but you must be very careful in evaluating older buildings and factor in likely needed near future
repairs and maintenance. Sounds like you would benefit from some face to face mentoring as this can be a bit much for over the net.
repairs and maintenance. Sounds like you would benefit from some face to face mentoring as this can be a bit much for over the net.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
My advice is get a good job making good money as your #1 goal then look for farms in the area the job is located.
Generally, good advice but even well paying jobs in many areas do not offer the start up means to farm other than in a limited hobby sense. Marrying for money should be far down on the list for requirements of a wife but I can tell you such guys have blown past me like I was sitting still in my farming ambitions. I have not done much to disprove the notion or marry it or inherit it when it comes to farming. Anyways, the young man has a number of years to figure it out and change requirements plus expectations for a farm. Maybe he will get lucky and all his dreams will come true.
Some things you need to consider, you have your whole life ahead of you, what are the tax rates in
PA? property tax, state income tax, sales tax, what is the general political climate? Will taxes
continue to increase, will you be supporting parasites in Philly and elsewhere? Will they want to
take your guns in 20 years? What is the general cost of living?, at the present time, most
everything is cheaper and taxes are lower in the South. From all angles it is hard to beat
Tennessee, anyway, researching different areas won't cost you a dime and you may find a better
overall option.
PA? property tax, state income tax, sales tax, what is the general political climate? Will taxes
continue to increase, will you be supporting parasites in Philly and elsewhere? Will they want to
take your guns in 20 years? What is the general cost of living?, at the present time, most
everything is cheaper and taxes are lower in the South. From all angles it is hard to beat
Tennessee, anyway, researching different areas won't cost you a dime and you may find a better
overall option.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Very few businesses can you just walk in with nothing borrow enough money to make it work so you start to make a living at it.Also there are a few good reasons why many of the Amish are moving out of the NE US to Southern Virginia to farm.
From where I am sitting the Amish are "moving" primarily because new opportunities are not opening up fast enough when an Amish (or Mennonite) couple has 6 plus kids with themselves being around age 20 or less when that process starts. If the "English" were dropping like flies then it might be possible but like a friend and myself noted it would barely take a generation or two for the Amish or Mennonites to totally occupy our township leaving no opportunities at all for new families if the cards fell their way. I have yet to hear of some Amish or Mennonite leaving strictly because the pastures are greener elsewhere. Now if the milk market keeps eroding then yes they may have no choice to close up and move out because in a lot of cases they are on the poorer ground that straight corn/soybeans will not pay enough to make a living.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
You sound like you don't know many (any?) Amish or Mennonites personally.I do and have for years down here around Dayton VA and up around New Holland PA.I can also say that
there is very little of the negative attitude towards them down here that there seems to be many places judging from comments of people on YT I've read over the years.
there is very little of the negative attitude towards them down here that there seems to be many places judging from comments of people on YT I've read over the years.
What's negative about saying that there is not enough land for sale in the NE (NY, PA, MD) for every Mennonite and Amish couple that want to farm because that is the truth of it. There is no observable decline in the number of Mennonite and Amish farms where I am at. I know plenty of Amish and Mennonites and they have their poor characters just like the rest of us. Which is to say that they can bull chit others while keeping their real intent to themselves. I don't hate them for it but I am not going to pretend that they don't do it. I think that it is funny of some of the attitudes I see here knowing when guys were younger and wanted to farm that they would at least shun outsiders and probably do worse if they could but now as old men with marginal farmland to sell they see these same people as heaven sent.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
There is a huge amount of land for sale in NY and why not high taxes and terrible climate,plus a poor economy.Just the opposite in Southside VA low taxes,great climate and a pro business
state.
state.
Lots of good advice so far. Most educations seem to avoid financial wisdom. You appear a bit eager to assume large debt loads (or maybe you have a trust fund for your land purchase).
Run a few amortization calculators and observe how much interest is paid and how little goes toward the principal. Also be aware of loans and requirement for "bare land" vs. a single family home. Most of the homes you drive by are actually people renting their home from their bank.
I've never actually checked one out personally, but some of the Dave Ramsey programs would probably be a great help to any young person stepping out into the "real world".
Run a few amortization calculators and observe how much interest is paid and how little goes toward the principal. Also be aware of loans and requirement for "bare land" vs. a single family home. Most of the homes you drive by are actually people renting their home from their bank.
I've never actually checked one out personally, but some of the Dave Ramsey programs would probably be a great help to any young person stepping out into the "real world".
From where I am sitting there is very very little land for sale and none sitting with a "for sale" sign in terms of farm property. Taxes are high but the people who still live here deem it acceptable as they still live here. A poor general economy matters very little to the Amish and Mennonites as they do not seek jobs in town. Milk, meat, hay, and grain are exported out of the area that are not consumed locally. None of this changes the fact that the Amish and Mennonite population is growing faster than ground being available for purchase making it necessary for quite few to relocate if owning land is of the utmost importance. If any ground has been sitting for sale for a while it is because it is overpriced for its value to the Amish or Mennonites. They will gamble on marginal ground all day everyday but even they are not fools when it comes to buying swamps or hill ground with 2" of top soil sitting on top of shale.
Very interesting points you made there. I agree it might not be the smartest financial decision to have large debts, but I guess it will depend on what job I get. I’m going to college to be an engineer, and I like to think I’m smart enough to get a good job, but my dad often jokes that “you’re smartest when you’re 18”.
I’m an engineer and live just south of Pittsburgh. I looked for land and saved for almost 20 years before I found a place for a reasonable price. It was a place that needed and still needs a lot of work but that is what Made it affordable for me. It is also 30 min away from my house but it’s worth the drive.
It will be another 10 years till I build a house on the place but I’m willing to wait.
Study hard, work hard, think long term on financial decisions (save), and keep looking for your farm.
Good luck
T in NE
Well-known Member
- Location
- Cambridge, Nebraska
State income tax
City income tax
School tax
Property tax
Highest fuel taxes in the country
City income tax
School tax
Property tax
Highest fuel taxes in the country
T in NE
Well-known Member
- Location
- Cambridge, Nebraska
When we sold our place in 05, the 50 and 100 acre parcels brought the same total price as the 5 acre pieces. Cousin's ex husband ran into the same problem when he sold his place. Banks wanted him to sell the 10 acres with the house separate from the 50 across the road, didnt want to loan money on open acres.
T in NE
Well-known Member
- Location
- Cambridge, Nebraska
I went to school in cambridge springs.
Lived about 2 miles west of i79.
Look at the tax rates, license requirements
(know a guy who builds gas stations. What
his 4 licences in Ohio let him do, would
take a dozen in PA) I got out 9 years ago
with no intention of moving back
Lived about 2 miles west of i79.
Look at the tax rates, license requirements
(know a guy who builds gas stations. What
his 4 licences in Ohio let him do, would
take a dozen in PA) I got out 9 years ago
with no intention of moving back
We just watched the documentary "Farmland" (2014 by James Moll). It reviewed the lives of six young farmers. It appears the pathway to being a farmer is to INHERIT.
The one person in the film we really admired was the young lady running a truck patch in PA. She was the lone farmer that did not inherit her job.
The one person in the film we really admired was the young lady running a truck patch in PA. She was the lone farmer that did not inherit her job.
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