Generac.

I have this weekend received two. Shall we say nasty emails. About my opinion on Generac generators.

Well I am sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. I was asked for advice and I gave it. Based on 45 years of working on generators. I will not lie or pick one brand over the other. I will tell you my opinion. Of each brand good or bad.As my Dad always told me. If you can't handle the answer. Don't ask the question.

I am no expert and never claimed to be. I just tell what I learned in 45 years of field service. Hot and cold rain or shine I was out there. Just like most of you. I never got to sit in a cushy office.

So if the truth hurts. Live with it.

I?m sorry you had to deal with that crap Billy,there?s no need of it. Most everyone here are mature adults ,too bad all of us don?t act like it.

Billy, don't worry about them! "opinion" always follows "your" or "my".
You were asked for yours!

NOTE even though Billy and I have different opinions of Generac ,It was not I who sent the email. I respect his opinion and he has always said some folks have good luck with the latter units..

It doesn't say much for the human condition when some persons get so religiously involved in a brand, or color, or model, or whatever, that they then feel they should defend their preference at the expense of another human being.

Opinions are easy, and everyone has them. When someone, such as yourself, can refer to years of experience, I don't even consider that an opinion. If I state something on here, I try to base it on my experience, not just a preference, or opinion. The problem comes in when my memory doesn't work like it used to!

I wouldn't worry about it Billy. I've seen good and bad in a lot of different brands and not just generators. I will tell you this next time there's a hurricane headed towards Florida and my shop floor is littered with all my friends generators that will not run you'll be the first one I reach out to if I can't get one running or making power!

Billy, anytime I asked you for advice you gave me good unbiased OPINIONS and I appreciate all you helped me with.

THANKS BILLY I hope you remain here because I for one appreciate your help, experience and expertise...


John T Retired Electrical Engineer

Billy, I always read your posts and respect what you say.
You can't please everyone, so don't worry about what folks say.
Richard

Billy, Sorry you have to deal with individuals that can't take well meaning advise.

Thanks for letting us know.

Have a Merry Christmas!

Larry

People base their opinion based on their experience. Some folks can't accept that other people have experiences different than theirs and feel the need to put down others who have a different opinion.

I have to agree. While I don't know a thing about Generac over any other brand, a person's "opinion" is their own. When you ask for it and they reply, it's dam rude to get angry!

Why didn't you stop by. You were only 150 miles away. I hope you are having a good time. I am not going anywhere. Just blowing off steam.

Billy I spent a dozen plus years repairing and maintaining generators aircraft ground start carts and ground power units.

Although I know my way around a generator quite well the majority of the time I do not reply to posts regarding generator questions for the simple reason that;

Based on my own knowledge and having read probably every post you have replied to for the past 6 years, I feel qualified to say Billy Shafer is the YT go to Guru for generator questions.

But hey what do I know this is just my opinion.

Your advice and opinions are always respected here.

Years of knowledge and wisdom are freely shared on this site.

Not all know how to benefit themselves from it.

Sorry you have to put up with that! I think most of us appreciate your comments and your vast knowledge. Happy holidays!

You have years of experience and given an honest opinion that is great in my opinion.If I ask a question I want to hear an honest opinion, of course everyone's experiences are not the
same.I'm guessing the people that sent you the emails have some sort of financial interests in what you gave a low rating to so it goes.

No jm it was not you. I know that. It would be a pretty boring world if we always agreed. Some times you just have to scream or go nuts. Some times I have to wonder if the person should even be around a generator.

To the rest of you. Thanks for letting me get it out. I wish all of you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Try not to eat to much Christmas. Because in eight days you have to do it all over again. May the hangover pass quickly.

Not sure what this was all about so I searched back a few pages and I see one of your comments said .....

"I would check out Champion. They have a good support system. Stand behind what they sell. They seem to be trying to be what Onan used to be. Before Cummins bought them. With Onan it was customer comes first."

Champion as in the Champion gen sets sold by Costco? Or if not those specific ones, made by the same company?

My hat is off to guys like you. I don't see how you guys can do it. With all the noise and equipment running around. Then you had the
jet and prop blast. I was always glad to do my job and get off the airport. I was at DF/W one day. When my truck got sprayed with
avgas. I was not happy.

Champion generators. I know of one instance where a customer complained to them about his unit. A few weeks later a new unit was at his door. I haven't seen that done since the old Onan days.

So, I'll ask again Billy ..... the same company that sells their sets through Costco?

As I remember, I told the questioner that Billy had WAAAAAYYY more experience working on generators than anyone I know, and one should probably heed such wisdom gained by hard experience. Whoever sent the emails probably spent a lot of money on a generator and were miffed to find out that their choice maybe was not one that Billy would have made. Billy's not saying every Generac will fail, most probably won't, but he has noticed that Generac has many many models and seem to be hard to get parts for when they fail. I've read his unbiased evaluations many times over the years. I don't think he has a dog in the fight, he doesen't sell them, he just works on them. Billy, if I've said anything out of line, feel free to correct me...John L...

Billy, you are the first person I think of when it comes to the Miller NT 250 welder/generator with an Onan Performer 20 powering it. This site, for an inordinate amount of time, has been a place for many to collaborate on so many different kinds of things, it's amazing. Rest assured, a scant few detractors cannot negate a careers worth of experience, not here, not now, not ever.

I have two champion 3500 w RV generators I bought through Lowes. There are many other places that sell champion, Rural King, TSC, Sporting goods store, eBay and Amazon.

I love mine. Was told they are honda clones. I would recommend champions.

Never bought a Generac.

I do know what Billy is experiencing, people piling on him for his opinion. I wish it would stop. I feel sorry for anyone who can't voice his opinion.

Heck Billy,i consider you the best on generators. I read anything you have to post. I come here for the truthful knowledge and experience you have. Thanks for all you give.

Billy I find you one of the best people on here in knowledge and opinion. And enjoy your posts. You have forgot more than most will know about generators!!! But I will add my two cents worth onan they have worked for me.

I only know of one Champion company. I am sure they have also had their problems. But it is how a company handles that problem that matters. The best of anything is worthless if you can't get it fixed.

Just one of several reasons why I no longer put my email on here.

John L
Everything you said is correct. I do not side with anyone. I give an honest answer of what I think. It has gotten me in trouble a few times. But I accept that as being part of the job. I don't like some salesman giving me false information. Why should I lie to someone else. If I don't know the answer to your question. I will do my best to find out. I am not an expert and never claimed to be. I make mistakes just like everyone else. I try to learn something everyday.

I have a room full of older information. On different generators and equipment. So if anyone needs information. Let me know I might have it. Except for tractors and cows. All I know about them.
One has four tires and rolls.
The other goes moo and craps alot and always gets in your way.

Always respected your approach to maintenance/trouble shooting work. It takes special skills and thought processes.
Jim B..........Retired Engineer

I have never owned a Generac product, but I know folks who have and their experience was not particularly good. And, as I mentioned a while back, I saw them stacked up like cordwood at a local metal recycling outfit.

That said, there are a number of local shops that install them by the dozens. I assume that's because it's very profitable; it takes the same amount of labor to install a Generac as it does a Kohler, but they can sell Generacs at a price anybody can afford. And any time you criticize somebody's bread and butter business, they tend to take offense.

Most likely Billy Shafer has forgotten more about electrical generation equipment than most of us will ever know.

Three years ago, I bought a new 10kw Generac generator, and although I've done test runs I've never had to use it for real.

What irks the hell out of me is hearing people bad mouthing Generac generators without giving specifics. I'm well aware that a difference of opinion is what makes a horse race, but when someone simply says, "stay away from Generac generators", without elaborating with specifics, I have a hard time giving them any credibility.

So, what are the problems with Generac generators? Will someone please inform me?

How about some specifics on Generacs?

I can simply say I know people who have not had good experiences with, say, Dodge pickups. But does that give me any credibility? Not really. Probably quite the opposite.

When I worked for Contel in Wentzville, mo. many years ago, part of my job was doing the weekly routine of running our generators, checking oil, etc. We bought some Generacs in the 50 -100K range. What surprised me was the fact they ran at 3600rpm. I was only there another year afterward, and had no problems with them, but I do know that when they bought more generators a couple years later they went back to Onans. I never knew the reason. It was not unusual for those generators to only be needed a time or two in 5 or 10 years, and then usually just a few hours, but on rare occasions they may have to run for as long as a week.

I bought a harbor freight 8750 with a honda clone to put on my truck so I can use my hypo-therm plasma cutter. Have about 100 hrs on it with no problems yet, but if it dies and can't get it fixed i'll buy another. It doesn't owe me anything..Would like to have one for the house but rarely have power outage and this one will power what we need. Still enjoy your posts Billy and wonder how far apart we live. I'm in Brownwood area.

Problems with Generac? Here is a real example. Bought a 8kw Generac and had a local electrician wire up a transfer switch on the house panel so I could use it as backup if we lose power, which is not uncommon if a hurricane comes ashore. As soon as it was plugged into the house, it would trip the breaker on the generator. Electrician said it was defective, so I took it back where I bought it and they sent it in for repair. Got it back and had the same problem, took it back again and they sent it off for repair again. Got it back and same problem. Owner of the electrical service came out to troubleshoot it himself. Turned out that the unit was equipped with a GFI circuit although it was not supposed to be and the manuals did not indicate that it had it. At that time, only their commercial grade generators were supposed to have the GFI, and this was not a commercial grade generator. Talking with Generac, they would not admit that it was erroneously configured and incompatible for the use it was supposed to be built for and what I bought it for. Both trips back for service and they never figured out the problem. Once he figured out the problem, my electrician was able to configure it so that the unit would work as intended.
I am not an electrician and given all of the electrical experts here, I am sure someone will find fault with my story, It was about 10 years ago, and I may not have it completely correct, but bottom line was that the Generac did not know what they had built and was not any help in figuring out what they sold me. By the way, I've had no problems with it since then, but I was not impressed with the service.

I can give you forty years of problems.
Lack of support from the Factory.
Failure to approve warranty claims.
Lying to customers.
Selling units and then claiming they are obsolete.
Failure to return calls.
Selling parts at inflated prices.
Selling a master manual for 55.00. Then sending you a bad photo copy of a manual.
Hanging up on a person. Trying to keep a nursing home. Going during a storm.
Selling units that are not supposed to be in the states.
Selling used engines as new.
I could go on for hours.

I am over here in Centerville on 45. I use to do the GTE office in Brownwood. I was told no testing of buildings out of the hour window. I met with the CO tech to set up a test time. He said how about now and threw the main breaker. I just about had a heart attack. 1 pm and he does the test. That I was told never do except between midnight and 6 am

Lack of hydraulic valve lifters?

You asked.

Dean

Ya know Billy, my brother worked for Cummins Bridgeway Power Generation for quite a few years. He worked on every and any make and model generator, from little tiny ones, on up to 16 and 24 cylinder ones, great big ones. I don't remember his stories about them anymore, but he always felt the same about Generac generators as you do; he experienced the same issues as you stated, I do know remember that much. I can't remember the derogatory term he used to call them. That being said, we have 2 small Generac generators on the farm, one my grandpa bought 30 or more years ago, a 6500 watt, and a smaller one that was given to my brother, maybe a 3000 watt. We don't use them much, they don't have a lot of hours on them, and so far they have been ok, but if they did break he knows how to fix them unlike myself.

Friend of mine had a Generac whole house generator installed never really needed it for a few years just ran it enough to keep gas fresh etc.Power went off he needed it the unit lasted about 2 hrs before it burned out,of course the warranty was out by then.

(quoted from post at 20:29:46 12/23/18) How about some specifics on Generacs?

I can simply say I know people who have not had good experiences with, say, Dodge pickups. But does that give me any credibility? Not really. Probably quite the opposite.

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Goose, We all know that the topic of Generators comes up frequently. We all know that Billy Shafer has chimed on on many of these threads lending his knowledge garnered from many years of working on generators. Why not just search and read to your heart's content?

You and me both George. It is unfortunate that a whole bunch of extremely knowledgeable people have left or dont post or reply because of a few self proclaimed know it alls that hide behind keyboards and PO whomever they chose to hate on.

Just a note of encouragement Billy. Keep up the good work here and high standards of your postings.

RB the nice word was Genajunk. The other word among many was POS. Which was a real shame. Because they did have some very good units. They had a 20 kw diesel that was a work horse. The only problem I had with it in ten years. Was a light bulb for the panel and a selector switch. It never failed to work.

I had two at a movie production company. One never gave us a problem. You couldn't keep running. It ate parts like candy. The main problem has always been with the factory.

We all have a brand that frost out balls mine is a Euro junk, VW and BMW are pert near banded here I will even go as far as to tell owners over the phone I don't like euro junk and don't want to work for anyone that owns one...

My reason I have lost my arse on a few I have trowed the towel in find someone that is willing to clean your wallet out its not me...

You have my condolences...

(quoted from post at 06:10:57 12/24/18) RB the nice word was Genajunk. The other word among many was POS. Which was a real shame. Because they did have some very good units. They had a 20 kw diesel that was a work horse. The only problem I had with it in ten years. Was a light bulb for the panel and a selector switch. It never failed to work.

I had two at a movie production company. One never gave us a problem. You couldn't keep running. It ate parts like candy. The main problem has always been with the factory.

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Perhaps you could liken Generacs to Saber lawnmowers. Sabers are green so they have to be good. Generacs are advertised and sold and bought everywhere so they have to be good right?

Your experience is highly valued here, Billy. Indeed, your comments herein were heavily influential when I was generator shopping in 2014.

FWIW, I bought a 20KW Kohler despite much disliking the local Kohler dealer and much liking the local Generac dealer.

Keep up the good work.

Dean

Never had any luck with Generac generators. Have switched to Honda which has worked well for me.

Vito

I am by no means a generator guru but respect anyone who lives and learns his trade to amass their knowledge. If Mr. Shafer with his credentials offered his opinions and knowledge especially after being asked then I would more than likely be inclined to pay attention.
I've been in and around constructions of all kinds for the past 40 years and have been the end user of many generators big and small.
Most recent experience now 3yrs out needed to replace 5 wore out Champion generators originally purchased at Lowes. All 5-6k have ridden around in trucks or job trailers for most of their lives and not been treated kindly on job sites. So any machine would have a hard task to stay alive in the conditions. So while shopping for new generators knew a guy who knew a guy that worked for Generac. Got me in touch with the commercial sales rep. and he convinced me not to buy the homeowner version and buy the commercial version. He gave what looked be a good deal. for 5 6500watt generators.
In less than 1/2 year all 5 had experience some type of failure. Granted not all were the fault of the generator. I know 2 busted due to being dropped off a trucks. 2 had connection issues at breakers and 1 consistently the plugged oil filter(looked to be sealant left in at manufacture).

Banged out the 2 that were dropped and back into service they go. Ordered new switches and breakers received 1 ea. in 3 weeks. Back ordered the other set still haven't received them. Cobbled together the other 1 with parts from defunct Champion to get back into service. Flushed crankcase several times and put back together and stopped filter plugging issue but smoked now.
Thankfully we kept the previous generators for spares. They didn't all work great but better than nothing.
All 5 have had the air box broken off they seem to be a magnet for getting kicked or run into by something. I started to stock an extra in our shop. It doesn't just break the cover it distorts the air box so that the throttle won't function properly. IIRC that assembly was about $120 ea. The 1 that that oil filter plugged finally seized up about a year and half old. That became a parts machine. All had issues with motor and gen mounts that were very frail and bent easily, they all had wheel kits that failed miserably, replace with wheels from harbor freight. Replaced several more breakers and switches throughout use. Loose wires, Loose wires. They were not designed for quick repair either. Remove the handles , gas tank air box to gain access to the control panel.
Yes a lot of this was due to hard and abusive use. But counted on to function daily and when needed to be repaired or corrected we would wait weeks for parts. I tried to reach the guy that sold them to me, he quit and his replacement will not call me back. After discussing with the parts manager he says someone will be in touch hasn't happened. Good thing we kept the champions 3 are back in service to replace the Generacs that have failed.
My mid 80's parents have a whole house system connected to propane. Nice install very neatly done. When service was due no word from the servicing contractor. So after some inquiry he quit Generac and someone else was handling it. Contacted him and he came within a day or 2 and took care of everything and has so religiously since. Had a failed sensor indicated on the control and he responded within 24 hrs. and corrected it. He did comment to me when I met him that he has to stock whole units and controls so that he isn't stuck waiting for parts. Also that he had difficultly getting the right parts from his supplier.
Other than 1 unit all failures have been non motor or generator
related.
Just saying you like or buy whatever you want but I won't be buying Generac or generic anytime soon.
I still have the first generator that I bought 40 years ago it was used daily for many years, McCulloch with a Briggs engine and a big yellow cover over the stator. Still runs and works good.
So thank you Mr. Shafer for your continued input.

We have a garage owner feels the same way. Has a shot gun on the wall marked. German Car Repair Tool.

Vito, when my son started building houses about 20 years ago or so, he was going to buy a Costco generator, probably a Champion or some such brand. A friend of his who had been around the block a few times in the business told him to put his money back in his pocket, save up a bit and buy a Honda. Not a Harbor Freight (or up here Princess Auto) Honda-powered unit (with Honda clone engines that have no replacement parts available), but a Honda gen set from a Honda dealer. He took the guy's advice and has bought Honda ever since and wouldn't use anything else. I'm sure there are other reliable brands out there too. Our club purchased a number of Champion gen sets, small units. Great thing about buying from Costco is that they take them back regardless of time lapsed or reason. The fourth one we bought we still use and it's been pretty good with limited use. The first three we didn't have much luck with.

(quoted from post at 22:24:16 12/24/18) We have a garage owner feels the same way. Has a shot gun on the wall marked. German Car Repair Tool.

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I THINK I WILL STEAL THAT ))

The other goes moo and craps alot and always gets in your way.



I see you have met my tractors. 8)

I have a Honda pump unit. On the liquid feed truck at work. Seven years now and it has never failed me. I agree if you want a top of the line engine. Buy a Honda. Others have copied them but know one can beat them. Simple to use and easy to work on. We have a Briggs on the other unit. Nothing but trouble. So bad I stopped using it.

Well Billy a google search for Generac reviews backs up your claims pretty well.

I have never understood. Why a cow will run across a pasture. Only to stop right in front of you. Or they will walk in front of you.
When all they have to do is step aside and let you by.

(quoted from post at 23:31:38 12/23/18) When I worked for Contel in Wentzville, mo. many years ago, part of my job was doing the weekly routine of running our generators, checking oil, etc. We bought some Generacs in the 50 -100K range. What surprised me was the fact they ran at 3600rpm. I was only there another year afterward, and had no problems with them, but I do know that when they bought more generators a couple years later they went back to Onans. I never knew the reason. It was not unusual for those generators to only be needed a time or two in 5 or 10 years, and then usually just a few hours, but on rare occasions they may have to run for as long as a week.

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Probably bought the lowest bid .

Hello Billy Shafer,

Just trash those e-mails! Ignore them, they will go away. I had help and an offer of parts from you. So I have learned to heed your advice and experience. It is always appreciated,

Guido.

Hello Billy Shafer,

I forgot to add my bad experience with generac parts. A head valve kit, should have been a stock item, took 90 days to get here. Marry Christmas,

Guido.

Billy, could you tell me who built my 3500 watt, 110 only, 5 horse Brigs powered unit that My late Father-in-law bought new from Sears in 2005? I don't think Sears built them themselves so who would have built it. In the few years I have had it since he passed I have used it several time running around the clock for a week once. Just used an extension cord in threw a window to power the house. Has been good unit for me but will be going up for auction in a short time as I have moved from farm into a senior apartment in town and cannot take it. I have never give it a thought to who actually built it for Sears. Thanks.

Leroy.
If you can give me the model and serial number. I can find out more information. I think that was the time Generac sold the small power section to Briggs. Then later bought it back. Most likely it is a Briggs unit. They built units for many OEMs.

Onan did build some with Briggs engines. But I believe they stopped by 1999. I will do some research on it. Be glad to help.

Well Guido. That is better than doing a install on a new Generac transfer switch. Calling in your parts needed list. And being told the switch is obsolete not under warranty.