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Ever noticed more metric

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37chief

Well-known Member
Location
California
Lately I have noticed more item measurements are given in metric. There is another good example of you can't teach an old new tricks. None of that makes sense to me. I don't know where America went wrong deciding how to measure something. Maybe back then we were right, and everyone else was wrong. Stan
 
Hello 37chief,

It is a simpler and widely used system. I had to Learn the pounds was 16 ounces. The foot was 12 in, the yard was 3 feet. A gallon 128 ounces, a mile 5280 feet. All of that after using the matric system, which is so simple.
Kilogram 1000 grams. Liter 1000 cc. Kilometer 1000 meters. Meter 100 centimeter. You see what I am ranting about?

Guido.
 
I don't mind using one OR the other on a project, but it gets really messy when you get into standard pipe sizes and have to figure out the metric equivalent sizes (some pipe sizes are used structurally and still hold dimensional to the traditional inch designations, but have to be called out in metric).
 
In 1866, Congress authorized the use of
the metric system in this country and supplied
each state with a set of standard metric weights
and measures.

Metric system has been around longer than we have.
The year was 1866
 
The math is easier.

I?ve spent a few decades knowing in my head how much any of that actually is in imperial measures.

You tell me something is 100 kilograms, and I can preform math on it real fast - but I don?t actually have a clue if it is bigger or smaller than a breadbox?

It is not ?easier? to use when your entire reference is based on imperial measurements.

If you sit in an office and just do math, then sure metric is much easier. But, really, you are being replaced by a computer if that is what you do.....

Being in the real world, the visual world, you vacant easily relearn decades of experience stored in your head and go to an ?easier? metric system in a year or two. It is a long time of relearning what you already would know so easy.

Paul
 
?You can?t easily relearn decades of experience?.

Sigh. I wish my spell checker would learn English with me, instead of us fighting each other all the time....

Paul
 
What I really hate is when working on something they mix metric and the old USA standard. You have to drag out twice as many tools and hope you get the one that fits right and won't round it off.
 
I'm pretty sure younger folks got and are getting much more education about metric units than when most of us were going to school. When I work with most younger folks about machining things they pretty much go to metric by default.
 
Same complete muddle here in the UK - maybe worse!
The UK attempted to go metric in 1965, but failed to convince the great British public! There was another 'metrification' deadline set for 2009 but that, too, proved un-enforceable. Only the currency has ever fully made it into metrication.

So now we have a mixture of miles with kilometres, metres with yards, feet and inches, kilograms with pounds and ounces, litres with gallon. Gas and diesel are sold in litres, beer in pints, sugar in kilos, butcher meat in pounds and ounces, fertilizer is bought in 50 kilo bags, but application rates are still often in cwts (112 lbs) per acre, body height is measured in feet and inches, body weight in stones and pounds (though sometimes quoted in kilos, though that is meaningless to most people), and mountain height in feet! And as for nuts and bolts size/thread/pitch - they may be Metric, AF, Whitworth, BSF, UNF, UNC etc etc.

Only metric has been taught in schools for many years, so you would think things might be geting simpler, but it does not appear to be the case! Kids just seem to pick up the 'old ways' from mum and dad!

We just muddle through, but we appreciate the nightmare for visitors to the country!
 
My son works for a large automotive tier one and two supplier, and everything they do is in metric now. (Federal Mogul)
 
Metric is the best system if you understand it and use it. When you learn the English system when your young you can visualize feet, yards, etc but it makes it harder to learn the metric system and have it make sense in terms of what you already can visualize. As a chemist I've used the metric system for years and I still can't visualize Celsius temperature. I'm OK on weight and volume.If you understand both its the English system that doesn't make sense - its not based on anything expect what someone years ago decided it should be and probably changed every time a king or queen died. It is really bad to use for scientific work.
 
You might as well get used to it, USA is about the only developed country in the world that hasn?t gone metric. Personally, I hate it. I was taught Standard measure in school until grade 8. Then that year Canada went metric, I have been confused ever since.
 
To me all metric is just a bunch of numbers . English is easy just picture a pie 🥧 and cut it up
 
mvphoto28009.jpg
 
Guys get over it. Metric is the new standard.

Now think back. All the fractions you had to learn. Converting fractions to decimals. Had we had to learn metrics to start with all that would have been out the window. Math would have been a lot easier.

Rick
 
I had an '81 Cadillac Eldorado many years ago- I remember changing the starter, 2 SAE bolts, 1 metric. Grrrr.
 
And to boot, in the construction industry here in Canada we still use feet and inches, except on the drawing, where everything is labeled in millimetres. At least in Europe, from what I understand, it's measured in metres or parts of metres. But pipe is imperial everywhere? Sure in Europe, it's labelled in mm, cm or whatever, but it's still 3/8", !/2," etc ID. I'll say it's confusing. I have the hardest time with *C. I still have to convert to *F to really know what it feels like. My wife and kids don't understand *F at all!
 
In Switzerland you can buy so many grams of meat at the delicatessen, or a kilo of it, or a pound if you just want half a kilo. Same with bread. You buy a kilo loaf or a pound loaf if you want half a kilo of bread. ?????
 
Well Canada has used the Celsius temperature system since 76 I think. It makes a lot of sense really, 100 for boiling water and zero for freezing (instead of 212 and 32). It was a bit awkward at first but I think everyone up here pretty much thinks metric for temperature and totally disregards Farenheit. Travelling is in Km for the most part and most people, but I keep track of my gas mileage in MPG by converting .... but those are Imperial gallons (not the USA version). The metric system of L/100Km confuses me since it is not a unit rate where the second term in the ratio is "one" unit like miles per SINGLE gallon. A lot of other stuff is sort of back and forth it seems. Everyone knows their weight in pounds, I've never heard anyone tell me their weight in Kg. But when you go for a medical, they note our weight in kilograms and write that into your record.
 
If there was only one metric system it might be fine. Since there is not just one and there is a difference in them it makes things even more confusing. Now don't get in to bolt threads and the several different pitches and angles along with the stupis sizes that always seem like they are to small compared to the old SAE sizes.
 
There is little real feel for an inch, or a foot, or a yard, or mile. The same goes for a mm, cm, m, or km. I ask my students to mark off an inch. one in 20 will get it within a 1/16. most are more than an 1/8 off. It just makes less errors to use metric. Set the framing between a series of 8 windows with a 2'3-1/2" rough opening and 5 inches between brick mold. Then try it with 650 RO and 150 between moldings Jim
 
(quoted from post at 13:12:22 12/14/18) Hello 37chief,

It is a simpler and widely used system. I had to Learn the pounds was 16 ounces. The foot was 12 in, the yard was 3 feet. A gallon 128 ounces, a mile 5280 feet. All of that after using the matric system, which is so simple.
Kilogram 1000 grams. Liter 1000 cc. Kilometer 1000 meters. Meter 100 centimeter. You see what I am ranting about?

Guido.
Click to expand...

Guido,

I enjoyed your post:

When I was in college my buddy went home for the weekend. He was eager to show off what he had learned and was explaining the metric system of units to his mother. As he told the story, she listened intently to the entire speech. She then asked, "why don't they just divide feet and inches into ten parts?" That was over 45 years ago and I still find it funny when I hear a discussion on the metric system.
 
Rick

Isn't it ironical that the things used in the metric system had to be worked out via fractions etc so they could do that juggle with the decimal point?

https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/making-an-english-foot/

Chiefio has done a few more of these - likely in that folder too
 
When I was in Military school I took a couple of years of mechanical drafting and machine shop. I am far from a master machinest but there are lots of ways to measure stuff. Good enough for government work to hammer on it a couple of times till it fits. I purposely try to buy tape measures that have both standard AND metric on them. I flip back and forth between the two depending what measure of accuracy I need. I also work with machinest rulers and also surveys rulers. Mechanical drawings can be in hundreds per inch. Can also be in thousands. These are easy cause it is all zero to a hundred. Count on your toes and fingers. For the trailer I am putting new sides on there are four wood blocks that need to be VERY precise so the corners of the racks will be dead on square and even. Used my machinest 6 inch pocket rule to get this measurement. The wood block lenghth is 5-25. That is five inches then add 25/64 and you get the length I needed. Now I know 5 3/8 is just shy of that but measuring like this has served me very well. I have several of those three sided drafting rules but they are not too handy doing carpentry work. It is what ever floats your boat but I like the exactness of being able to devide something up in 100 sections verses 3/16 or 5/8 when if you look at a machinest rule and you see 12 or 20. One more crazy thing working with a vernier caliper and or digital calipers. Harbor freight has the digital that measures in all three. Just love it!!! Metric, standard thousands and fractions like 1/4 inch. Really cool. Did I confuse everyone now? ;) This is where the trailer stands today. Bright barn red paint on the plywood pannels and the racks will be treated wood 3 inch lath. Can't wait till it is done.
cvphoto6031.jpg


cvphoto6033.jpg


cvphoto6034.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 13:03:22 12/14/18) Lately I have noticed more item measurements are given in metric. There is another good example of you can't teach an old new tricks. None of that makes sense to me. I don't know where America went wrong deciding how to measure something. Maybe back then we were right, and everyone else was wrong. Stan
Click to expand...
When I think of temperature i prefer celsius...makes sense that water freezes at 0 and boils at 100.
 
Hello Indiana Ken,


That's a good one! Never could understand what is so hard to do all the measuring by 10. Did you read the post about the English measuring nightmare? NOW that's funny. On the other end, they do drive on the wrong side of the road HE! HE!

Guido.
 
But the gradient is not as finely devided. From freezing your bunns to
sweating is 0 to 35. Now zero or 32? f and 100?f makes a bit more
sense to me. Yet as I posted I really like the metric for measuring
stuff because it is all 0-100. Go figger.
 
The people buying US meat and grain exports don't buy any pounds or bushels, they buy in kilograms and metric tons.

I was introduced to metrics in freshman high school science in 1969. Mom was introduced to metrics in the late 1940's when she entered nursing school.
 
C-Guy ....... Not sure about bolts and nuts and all that stuff but you mentioned something about different metric systems. Can you clarify that for me? I've never heard of different systems of metric measurement.
 
That is about what I do. I like measuring and counting on my toes and
fingers. Now when I was in Boy Scouts they showed you how to measure
stuff with you body. Take your hand and spread your fingers as wide as
possible. On me that spread is 9.5 inches. Little finger ~ 2.5 inches,
middle finger ~ 3.5 inches. Very handy fast and dirty measurments in a
pinch. People look at you kinda weird when I measure that way and then
can tell them almost to 1/4 inch of the true measurements.
 
It could be worse, at least the English system adapter the new Arabic numbers instead of keeping Roman numerals.

It's interesting that the US had no trouble adapting decimal money (with the exception of the quarter dollar) right from the beginning.
 
Being in the fastener industry for many years it?s been a learning curve for sure. If the metric system would become more standardized between German and Japanese it would be more understood for users. Same diameter but 4 different thread pitches. Different wrench sizes depending. I would not want to be a mechanic for the amount of investment in tools too handle both systems.
 
How can celsius be easier when for say 33F it would be xx.x in C, same thing 35F would be xx.xC so how could it be simplar to use celsius when every degree difference would have to be something with a fraction to get that temp to the farenheight degree? I cannot even do the bath to when somebody says a temp in celsius I cannot even figure out what the temp is under farenheight. Except 0 or 100 celcius. And CC was used to measure something smaller that what the inch measurement could. When I left school in 59 you never heard the word metric, and when I went back to school in 98 nothing was said about metric. I hate it when in the news they say about soming being so many miles then have to put the silly milly metric in parenthese to confuse you. And to me metric meand Silly Milly, makes no sence at all.
 
surveyors and engineers divide the foot into 10'S AND 100'S--so much more simpler to add and subtract numbers
 
(quoted from post at 15:31:50 12/14/18)
mvphoto28009.jpg
Click to expand...


Not to be a nit picker, but your junkyard math is not real good. 1/2 inch = 12.7 mm, already smaller than 14 mm....adding a dime would be smaller yet.
 
Best thing is get you a tape measure with both systems, you get used to looking across both. As to threads ...1/2-13 bolt is .500 diameter and 13 threads per Inch. In Metric a 10x1.5 is 10mm in diameter and 1.5mm between threads. I can "see" an inch but only imagine 25mm.
 
Seems to me that there are two measures that are the same in metric and Fahrenheit -40 C is the same as -40 F. And when it?s that cold, no one is going to stand around arguing about which system is easier to understand. At that temperature, they are both dang cold
 
society and industry dictate which system will prevail--automotive become more global so it went metric.
USDOT wanted to go metric but society dictated otherwise and it never succeeded
 
I wish we would've gone completely metric back when Canada did, in 71! It's a better system, and it would allow us to export more product. US, Liberia, and Myanmar are the only countries not metric.
 
(quoted from post at 15:03:22 12/14/18) Lately I have noticed more item measurements are given in metric. There is another good example of you can't teach an old new tricks. None of that makes sense to me. I don't know where America went wrong deciding how to measure something. Maybe back then we were right, and everyone else was wrong. Stan
Click to expand...

I don't know where (as you say) "the US went right or wrong".

But it is what it is., what are you or I going to do about it?

I can do a reasonably accurate metric conversion in my head, "on the fly", and if I need to do it with precision, I use http://www.onlineconversion.com, and don't give it a second thought.
 
Years ago at an auction they had a set of four metric Cresent wrenches that I ended up buying. When I got home to my surprise they also fit sae nuts. They don't fit them real good but they work ok. They don't fit the metric nuts very good either.
 
Conversion isn?t that hard when you realize that 10 pounds of $#!? will actually fit into a 5 kilogram bag!
 
They might seem to "not fit" but a Crescent-style wrench is
an adjustable abomination designed specifically to round the
edges of nuts and bolt heads so they can not be easily
removed with conventional tools. It's for your own safety.
 
You are lucky to be able to do that. I can't do simply math in my head. For metric my caliper has a button I push from US to metric. stan
 
Spent 30 years as a science teacher, math teacher and shop teacher. Like languages, I seldom had students do conversions from one system to another. Yes, I did teach 2.54 cm in an inch and to convert from Celsius to Fahrenheit, add 40, multiply by 9/5 and then subtract 40. If going from F to C, just change the 9/5 to 5/9.

What is interesting is our body temperature 37 C or 98.6 F not the 96 that Fahrenheit was hoping it to be.

So in science we used metric, in shop we used inches and that system.

How many meters in a mile? If you do 4 laps around the track, it is a mile and once around the track is 400 m. Simple conversion.
 
Want to get completely confused throw in Withworth tools and bolts from the UK. I have a Triumph Motorcycle that is all Withworth. Another set of wrenches. Stan
 
Yes I had a piece of photographic equipment tripod mount and it blows your mind when you find out there are four types of 10mm bolt. I like the 10 lbs. Of s in a 5 lb. Bag. That is funny.
 
I had been in the Canadian work force, for a period of four years.The USA was, and still is Canada's biggest trading partner.
From time to times these two nations (USA & CANADA)lock horns and disagree on various trade philosophies and principles.
When a nation "CANADA," has only 1/10 the population of our neighbour "USA" trade slow downs, and or stoppages, or trade problems sent to the world court, can cause a lot of discomfort for both nations.
I remember all to well, the Government of CANADA did try to educate Canadians,at least in some demographic locations that Canada must look outside NORTH AMERICA for trading partners.
Those nations whom were interested in Canadian goods, did indicate Canadian goods would have to have a METRIC identification on such goods.
As I was employed in the Transportation of Natural Gas to our neighbour "USA", the entire Natural Gas Pipeline infrastructure, Compressor Stations and Prime Movers maintained the Imperial system of weights and measures.
Was it a good thing that Canada adopted the METRIC SYSTEM? Was it a MISTAKE that CANADA adopted the METRIC SYSTEM?
A Democratic Nations Government should have to do what the elected citizens ask of their Government.
As a Canadian, I would ask myself, "has the implementation of Metric been good for Canada in the realm of trade"?
The entire Planet is in one hel_ of mess with trade issues.
I believe time shall prove that going Metric was a good thing for Canada.
7 billion + citizens on this plant. If Utilizing Metric can gain footholds into more trade ,then so be it.

Bob...
 
(LOL) I also have several metric hammers,chisels and Vice Grips,have to watch the metric hammer using an non metric chisel sometimes it'll won't fit right and bust your knuckles.
 

Don't complain about the US trade deficit if you're going to complain about the US going metric. Any company that wants to sell its products outside the US has to use the metric system. Nobody outside the US wants to buy a product in quantities of gallons, quarts, pints, pounds or ounces. Nor do they want products that require non-standard (ie. non-metric) tools to maintain.

About the only exception to this is US military and aerospace hardware, but that's changing as older systems become obsolete and are replaced by metricized ones.
 
the biggest thing that i have noticed is that things like ice cream containers are smaller there in some metric size now. salsa containers arent pints anymore they have gone down in size but not price. at least a quart of oil is still 32oz
 
Donald ..... your comment about a quart being 32 ounces is a good example of how confusing that measurement system was. Up here in Canada, yeaars ago we used the Imperial system (a relative of the US system) and a quart was 40 fluid ounces (and a gallon 160). Up here right now, we buy motor oil for example in litres .... BUT our containers are American-sized which means when I buy a litre of oil (1000 mL) I'm only getting 946 mL (an American quart). I buy a 4-litre container of cooking oil and I get 3.78 litres. It's no wonder that kids nowadays are confused with all of this stuff, it really has been handled badly. There should have never been any "converting" .... just put a system into place and use it.
 
For an American guy to work metric all he needs is a metric tape. Very simple system . Measure and cut 5 mm . very easy and defined. For a European guy to work British Standard will not be so easy with no training. What is a 3/8 drill ? What is .375 inch ?
 
TF ...... metric has even shrunk the old 2 x 4 even more ..... ha! Ours are now 1.5 x 3.5 inches and have been forever, although I think the ones in my house are the sizes you mentioned ..... oops, those darned decimals showing up again in my example ... ha! Sometimes you might get them even a wee bit smaller. I do know what they still call 1" lumber has been 3/4" finished size forever BUT i have seen fence boards that were closer to 11/16" in thickness (and those were not what they call resawn 2" lumber which are thinner because of the saw blade thickness). This will probably never get settled and sorted out forever.
 
Yes John--I was thinking more about their push to go metric for speed limits,distances,and even bridge design in metrics. the first metric designs we put out the contractors had the plans all converted to feet so there guys could understand and build it. Then the Feds required dual dimensions on plans, that didn't work out either
 
English units can be considered a trade barrier to keep out foreign goods. It works well don't it, LOL. It has probably hurt far more US sales to other countries than reducing any US imports.
 
I purchased a PTO shaft a while back. All I could get was an odd shaped tube, called a metric PTO. The rugged square bar shaft is not made any more. The guy told me it was something Pres. Clinton did. Don't understand that. Does anyone know about that deal? Stan
 
If the old shaft was truly square then it was not idiot proof, like the asymmetrical odd shaped ones. A square one could be put together 1/4 turn off and the U-joints would be out of phase. I really doubt if Clinton had anything to do with it!
 
I worked on a 4055 JD FWD front end two winters ago. It had all metric and larger bolts than I had sockets for. I upgraded my impact and standard socket selection big time.

Paul
 
Has the guy been telling that story for 18 years now? I would check with another supplier.
 
Used to have the same argument with my Dad. So here's the key: 13 is bigger than 12, 14 is bigger than 13. Etc.
 
5 KG bag would have a pound extra space for the 10 pounds of S***. Like set rifle sights for 200-- yards, meters? SKS has 300 meter base setting and the range has old yards from firing line to target posts - back stop is meters though so have some clearance. Could be worse- old,old russian or austrian gun with sites in Arshans/roman pace ARRRG!. RN
 
Mars lander crash was blamed on Jet Propulsion Lab using Metric and lander NASA using English/American measure- or other way around. Computer coded to deploy chute got wrong standard , numbers coded meant chute deployed way late at something like 100 feet instead of 100 meters. Toss a few million dollars how many kilometers away? Or Miles away? RN
 
Try to measure some things in field- no tape measure but can always measure in cubits, spans, hands, paces. just have to get proper conversion- do you use the Babalonian or Egyprian cubit? If there is a weather prediction for 39 days of rain with maybe extra day- does Menards have tape measure in Cubits and a source for Gopher Wood? Teasin' Alert!RN
 
BRUCE - I read one of those little filler paragraph articles in the Moline, Ill Dispatch news paper when I was in high school, so fall 1968 to spring of 1972 that said the US was one of only THREE countries in the world that had not adopted the Metric system. The other two were small undeveloped countries, one in Africa, the other in Asia.

Was about 1980 International Harvester started including metric dimensions on prints for new parts. As time was available they added metic dimensions to older prints.

As a Purchasing person for 30 years I dealt with prints for parts all the time. I got so I could deal with centimeters and millimeters as easily as inches and feet.

Probably have as many metric tools as I have SAE. Some stuff has always been metric, like spark plug threads and the shafts of old shaft mount car & truck radios.
 
Just checked again, same as 45-50 years ago, the WHOLE WORLD is metric except the USA, Liberia on the African continent, and Myanmar in South East Asia.

Yeah, We put a Man on the Moon, TWELVE TOTAL, Do you think we could really do it again? The darned nnalert would vote against because nnalert wanted it!
 
I'm a "reborn" metric critic. In doing wooden, period model ships, like 1/65 scales of the Nina, Pinta, Santa Maria, and Mayflower, all dimensions in metric, I came to realize the simplicity of metric measurements. I really find them more desirable than SAE (old english....I guess). Since I bought metric equivalents in mechanics tools, I just approach a job with one of each in each hand. On the larger dimensions, the two are close enough that the metric will do both jobs.....so when I went to HF to get a set of ? drive, deep impact sockets I got the metric since they will work for any bolt/nut of the series.
 
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