Repair shop question

300jk

Well-known Member
First I want to say this is not happening to me, but it could happen to most of us. So say you had to take you newer tractor, or vehicle in to be worked on for something and you weren't sure what the cause of the problem was. Repair shop diagnoses the cause of the problem and install new part to fix it. Only that was not the cause for the problem. They diagnose again and think they have it figured out this time. More parts and labor. Still doesn't fix the problem. Finally on the third try they get it right and the problem is fixed. My wuestion is this who pays for the parts and labor on the first 2 tries ? I know most times electrical components are non returnable and can't be taken back out of the tractor or vehicle and returned to where they were purchased. Just something I was wondering about !
 
Who actually pays or who should pay?

I had a power steering unit on a "green" tractor that went bad. The service manager at one mega dealer location told me how to diagnose it,but warned me that after I got the unit off,not to try to repair it myself. He said bring it in or take it to the dealer location of my choice,but it needed to be repaired by a dealer shop.

I took it off,took it to a different location of the same chain because that was the one I'd been dealing with the most. I told the service manager there that I'd talked to the other service manager and told him what was happening with it. Two days later,when I called,I was told it was done. I don't remember what it cost me,but it was close to $300 if memory serves me right. I put it back on and it acted just like before. After several calls to the service manager and playing "try this and try that",just before closing,he let me talk to the guy who'd worked on it.

When I asked him what he'd done to it,he said he put a seal kit in it. I told him it needed a spool,not a seal kit. I had to make two more 80 mile round trips to take it and pick it up again. Right around $400 that time as I recall it. Not one red cent of credit for the first screw up when they didn't even pay a lick of attention to what I told them the first time I dropped it off.

Bottom line,no matter who SHOULD pay,you will.
 
That's what I was thinking. One way or another you will be paying. If they tell you they didn't charge you for the other work they add on to the total job. I'm not saying all places do this, but I'm sure some do !
 
I had a Grand Cherokee with a drive-ability problem. A local shop worked on it for five days,every night my wife drove it home, and it was worse everyday. They finally found a bad ground at the computer, .50 cents of solder and it was fixed. The bill was $500.00,as far as I was concerned it was a bargain. I got it fixed, and they lost four days and six hours labor.
I have been on the shop side before, and I would stand the labor and give the customer the parts at cost. If that wasn t alright with the customer, I would take the new parts off and put the old ones back on(sooner or later I would sell the parts to someone.
 
Sounds like an issue I had with a local refrigeration guy and the bulk milk tank. The top coils were frosting up but the bottom ones weren't. The tank was running all day. He came every night while we were milking and just stood there twisting knobs on his gauges and acting like he was doing something. This went on for almost two weeks. The hauler finally told me something needed to be done because he was awful close to having the load rejected due to high bacteria from warm milk.


When I told him about it he went off and started cussing,told me that maybe the milk man should come and try to fix it. When I calmed down a little from being talked to like that,I asked him if he could maybe call the dealer and ask them if they knew what the problem was. He was still ticked off but didn't say he wouldn't.


Next morning he showed up,said he had called the dealer and they told him there was refrigeration oil settled in the lower coils and he needed to sweat the lines apart and blow it out with nitrogen. It took him about an hour and a half and it was fixed.


He gave me a bill for well over $800. When I "expressed my displeasure",he came unglued again and started cursing again saying he'd been here every night for two weeks trying to fix the g** d***** thing. I thought to myself "If you knew what you were doing,you wouldn't have been",but I didn't say it,I paid him.


He was the same guy who painted my 3010 outside in the rain,then when I asked him if he was going to clean that mess up and do it over again,went off and said "I've done all I'm doing to that F ing tractor and I want my money!". I paid him for that mess too,but it was the last thing he did for me.
 
This is one of the reasons I no longer will take a vehicle in to be repaired unless I can diagnose the problem myself and know what repairs are needed before it goes in. It doesn't have to be that new. Once they started putting computers on vehicles they pretty much made them not repairable. I have a 1987 Oldsmobile Delta 88 that has been to a half dozen or more garages and at least two dealerships for an ignition problem. It can be made to run but won't stay running very long. It's been sitting for two years now which I think I have discovered the problem. Someone has designed the ignition module where it has to have resister spark plug wires and some mechanic sometime when my mom had the car put plain wires on it. This is causing it to burn up the ignition modules.

The bottom line is they are designing vehicles way too complex to be maintained and repaired.
 
I'm an electrician, and I run into this kind of thing once in a while. If it's the kind of thing that is nearly impossible to troubleshoot, or it works correctly every time I show up, I try to be up front with people. I try to explain it to people why it's hard to fix. Usually, if I'm not confident that I have it fixed, I tell them wait and see before I bill. I will give credit on the next fix for an incorrect repair. I always try to avoid the huge labor bill for a $15 fix jobs. Nobody likes them on either side.
 
John I have to disagree with you. I don't agree with the masking problems in all situations. In my honest opinion most of the people who work at dealers and repair shops now are technicians, not mechanics. To me a technician is a parts changer, a mechanic is someone who can properly diagnose a problem, find the root cause and fix the problem. Many technicians now just like to throw parts at something till they find the real problem. I said many not all.
 
Never in my 10 years in the repair business did I charge a customer, by throwing parts at what was brought in to be repaired. My conscience is clear. Did I eat a few jobs. Yes! Gained invaluable experience from all of it. CM
 
We have a 2010 Dodge Avenger with a fan that runs on all speeds except "hi". When a blower motor resistor is bad as I understand it's the opposite, the fan only works on "hi" but not slower speeds. Took it to a repair shop, he changed the blower motor resistor, it didn't fix it. I paid the $100+ bill without complaining but won't take anything there again nor recommend his shop. Reminds me of doctors, they can charge whether they fix the problem or make it worse.
 
After being in the business for 25 years as a certified 'technician' there were very few jobs that the several shops I worked in couldn't handle but there was one old mechanic who taught me a valuable lesson; There is no shame in just plain 'giving up' on some of the difficult ones and sending the customer "down the road". More often than not, after going to several other shops that also could not fix it, they would come back more "open" to "exploratory or experimental" surgery at their cost. It may not be the "right" thing to do but you cut your losses before they happen and people seem to feel you're more honest that way. That's at least my experience.
 
(quoted from post at 14:45:44 12/08/18) Who actually pays or who should pay?

I had a power steering unit on a "green" tractor that went bad.

When I asked him what he'd done to it,he said he put a seal kit in it. I told him it needed a spool,not a seal kit.

Bottom line,no matter who SHOULD pay,you will.

I'm curious how you knew power steering unit needed a spool replaced? May I ask what model green tractor you're referring to? It must have been an Oliver.
 
That is in my opinion Chuck the way to run a buiseness. I realize some of the newer vehicles, tractors, combines and such can be a real pita to work on. I'm sure this view and honesty bring back more return customers.
 
I agree in the honesty part. If customer wants it fixed and has to pay extra I'm ok with that too as long as they know that !
 
I own a 94 Toyota 4Runner. The h/vac fan has 4 speeds and off. The most popular speed for me is 3. Of course, that speed does not work. I replaced the switch 3 times, once a year. For a while, it will work on all 4 speeds, then #3 goes away again. One year I changed the resistor. No change. It seems that the connector for the wiring has gotten hot enough to melt and the terminal for the 3rd speed does not make connection.
 
See that is something I don't think I would have paid for.you got nothing and still paid for it. Might sound harsh but hats like driving down the road and throwing 100 bucks out the window. I used to be the same way. Just pay and take it somewhere else. My wife and I have had some issues with camper we bought and have a warranty for. Last time they still had minor issues although fixed the main problem. I told them make it right or I won't take it back and sign off on the expensive warranty work. They seemed to change their attitude pretty quick. I'm not a push over, and I'm sure your not either. It does get frustrating !
 
No,1020 Deere. The loader was hooked to the power beyond. It would only raise if I turned the steering wheel all the way right and held it there. The service manager told me to take off the fill cap behind the seat,hold the wheel all the way right and look in to see if I could see oil spraying. I could. When they tore it down and put a spool in it the second time I took it in,it fixed the problem.
 
For me , working on cars and light trucks, I try to be as sure as I can possibly be before replacing any parts. If I am not I will talk to the customer first and explain everything and tell them I am not 100% sure that it will be fixed and may need further parts and or labor. If I just plain blow the diagnosis, I will eat the bill. Open and honest always works out the best. Customers are almost always reasonable if they feel you are being honest and really trying to solve their issue. I personally love the challenge of the hard to figure out problems, and will spend the time necessary to find the cause even if it is on my dime. Especially if another shop turned it away or couldn't fix it. My people are very loyal and will often wait 2-3 weeks to have me work on their stuff than take it somewhere else. I appreciate that and so try my best not to screw up the relationships I have built with them.
 
Years ago my boy had a nissan pulsar. I took it to the Nissan dealer. They guessed at many things and never did fix it. Each guess, I had to sign a paper and I had to pay for it.

An independent shop repaired it on the first attempt and told us where we could find used parts for him to fix it.

BTW, Boys car was damage in dealer's parking lot. A snow plow backed into it.

I never did business with Nissan dealer again.
 
That might not have been right. It's been several years ago. It might have been that the oil was spraying until I turned it all the way,not after I turned it. It was one way or the other,it just escapes me right now which way it was.
 
Back when Onan was Onan. If a repair was done and didn't solve the problem. The second repair was free. I once changed out a generator. That had been having oil leaks for over a year. It had leaks that would come and go. He came in the shop three months out of warranty. I called the factory told them what was going on. They said pull his unit give him a new one. No charge send us the bill and the old one.

In today's world he would be SOL.
 
To me I would rather you be honest than feed me a bunch of bull. The way you do buiseness is why you have return customers !
 
When I was in the trucking buisness in cases like that. I would pay for the parts and they would pay the labor on their mess ups.
Once had a transmission rebuilt by dealer, didn't get out of the driveway and it locked up. Brought it back three times finally had factory rep come out and they tore the transmission completely apart again. Found that the lock key for the mainshaft was .75 to short allowing the last gear to spin on the shaft. Lesson learned compare old parts with the new ones.
 
(quoted from post at 23:05:14 12/08/18) After being in the business for 25 years as a certified 'technician' there were very few jobs that the several shops I worked in couldn't handle but there was one old mechanic who taught me a valuable lesson; There is no shame in just plain 'giving up' on some of the difficult ones and sending the customer "down the road". More often than not, after going to several other shops that also could not fix it, they would come back more "open" to "exploratory or experimental" surgery at their cost. It may not be the "right" thing to do but you cut your losses before they happen and people seem to feel you're more honest that way. That's at least my experience.
Yes ,Yes ,and Yes.CM
 
You have to balance the cost of parts with the labor rate. If there?s a good chance that a $50 part will fix the problem, how long do you spend diagnosing at $160/hr?
 
Couple of years ago I took my Silverado in for a transmission oil and filter change.
The mechanic messed up a shifter solenoid and it would not shift into final drive.
Took it back three times before he got it right. He replaced the solenoid.
I paid for the oil for each change and one labor charge.
 
We operated under rules set down by D W Onan. When Onan first started. Treat people fairly and with respect. If you were reported the factory would send a man down. To check things out. If it was a valid complaint. You got a warning happens again and they pulled your dealership. Onan did not mess around. If you were caught lying to a customer. You were gone.
 
Even though this post is a couple of days old, I would add a few things here.

Importantly, no matter WHAT the labor rate is, diagnostic time is not wasted tine. When I was working in dealerships, I insisted on doing the diagnostics BY THE BOOK to be sure that a part I was replacing was truly bad. Charging a customer for parts that were just "thrown" at a problem is simply wrong. In most cases, a customer has no idea that a mechanic or shop is cheating them. I had multiple conflicts with management over diagnostics. They all want the quick fix and out the door. Unfortunately, there are plenty of hacks that will just start changing parts.

I recall when Ford first came out with their distributorless ignition, one was towed in as a "no-start" and dropped in my bay. I had not seen one before, and I had no idea where to start. We did not have the diagnostic tools available that came along later. Of course, the service writer wanted me to just change the ignition module and send it out the door. Problem was that the module at that time was very expensive and had to be ordered. It did not fix the problem. The problem came back to a crank position sensor, and there was no easy way to diagnose it short of opening the service manual and following the diagnostic tree to determine the problem.

The big problem comes in when everybody wants quick and short answers to every problem. Many times, that does work, but then a stubborn one comes along. Who is responsible for the first several failed attempts at repairing it using quick, short answers? Sure, they tried to save the customer money, but doing a half-assed job really does not save anything in the long run. It just develops a bad reputation for either incompetence or over charging.

In my personal experience, I will take the time to be as sure as I can before I start changing parts. Especially when those parts are expensive ones!
 

Of course the customer will pay, and he should as long as the first two attempts were in good faith (and good luck proving bad faith). I would never expect any tradesman to eat the cost of something he did in good faith.
 
I notice no one has mentioned the 6.0L Ford Powerstrokes. They have to be the champions of "masking" other issues.

I worked at a shop as Service Manager for @ 3 years that specialized in diesel pickup repair, primarily Fords and Dodge but we would work on a D-max if we HAD to. Anytime we had a 6.0 in the shop I'd spend quite a while explaining to each customer that we may have to repair one problem, or sometimes two or three problems, before we'd get their truck repaired. We had the Ford IDS(Ford's factory scanner/monitoring/diag tool) and our top mechanic was raised in a diesel pump shop and went on to be a Ford "Master Tech" or whatever it is Ford calls them. I had someone from Ford Corporate call and talk to him twice that I know of and the Ford dealers from the area were CONSTANTLY trying to hire him and calling asking for help with a truck in their shop.

I can't tell you how many times we 'd have to replace an ICP, Cam Sensor, Crank Sensor, you name it, only to find another issue. I know I was honest about every repair with every customer and Jamie was honest with me and the customers. I encouraged customers to come in so we could show them what we'd found before repairing it so they could see it for themselves, and many times I had to call them back to come and see what we found after that repair.

The moral of my long story is, sometimes it happens to the best, most honest mechanics and shops. I'm not defending or saying all shops or mechanics are honest, just saying it happened to me, my mechanic, and my customers and there was no deceit or dishonesty there.

-Scott
 

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