GMO non GMO corn

Not a tractor thread but neither was the crop pricing question below it.

How suspect could this nonGMO certification be

with insect or plant disease proliferation considered
the simple crop to crop natural pollination cycles
Understood it is genetic testing that might certify
or perhaps some recertification process
It seems so suspect to believe the process of truth to product in this real world
simple good ole boy standards the payoffs the oooops factors

and then on top of that
this potentially hokus pokus of natural and sustained certified organic management

yea right
who's paying off who to cerify what? who's turning their head to collude?

Corn it's good food. As the turkeys seem to say Mmmmmm corn
 
If you don't buy it why would you worry about it about it? Turkeys BTW tear up cow piles and eat the worms and grubs,they'll pick maggots from decaying dead animals so I wouldn't really
judge something being edible for humans by what turkeys eat.
 
(quoted from post at 04:20:19 12/05/18) If you don't buy it why would you worry about it about it? Turkeys BTW tear up cow piles and eat the worms and grubs,they'll pick maggots from decaying dead animals so I wouldn't really
judge something being edible for humans by what turkeys eat.

Gotta agree. And in fact Corn is really not fit for human consumption. Go take a look at what researchers and nutritionists have to say about eating corn products. Can't really run run a "corn, it does a body good ad". Corn is much better for us if we filter it through a cow, pig or other meat producing animal first.

I know corn prices are not that great right now but claiming that it's good food is not going to win friends or influence people to believe.

Rick
 
Here we go again. The GMO debate is arguing over the METHOD of alteration, nothing more. Before somebody pipes up like last time about the changes not happening in "nature", MULES do not happen in nature and nobody considers them GMO, and even the open pollinated corn that existed in the 1940's is not the "natural" grass that corn was developed from by the indigenous peoples of the Americas.
 
(quoted from post at 10:15:07 12/05/18) Here we go again. The GMO debate is arguing over the METHOD of alteration, nothing more. Before somebody pipes up like last time about the changes not happening in "nature", MULES do not happen in nature and nobody considers them GMO, and even the open pollinated corn that existed in the 1940's is not the "natural" grass that corn was developed from by the indigenous peoples of the Americas.

I think you are confusing Hybridization(mules and non-GMO corn) and Gene Splicing(GMOs).
 
If you are buying non-GMO corn at a terminal elevator paying 3.70 per bushel+ a price premium for a 1000 bu truck load, I bet you would know how to test it to see if it was GMO or not. Too much money going from buyer to seller to not know. When we say "feeding the world" referring to corn in general, one wonders if consumers really know how much * 2 field corn like you see coming in to the elevator do humans eat. Very low percentage. Much is run thru animals for feed, much is distilled & burned for fuel.
 
OK, just the facts.

Hybrids can occur in the wild so to speak through simple cross pollination. That's all that is involved. OK in steps man and he controls which plant crosses with another. It's still a possible combination that could occur naturally.

A GMO CANNOT occur without the intervention of man. No way no how. Man splices in a gene from non compatible species.

Trying to claim that Hybrids are a GMO or that GMO's are noting more than hybrids is nothing more that a lie.

Boils down to the farmer trying to force someone to eat what the farmer wants that person to eat all so the farmer can make more money per acre and not caring about what the consumer may want. Sounds a lot like those big evil corporations doesn't it? Thing is that companies have figured out that the consumer is more aware of what they are buying today than ever before. The consumer is demanding and getting better quality safer products than ever before. The farmer, again failing to work together has one side claiming the other is trying to poison the consumer.

You people have lost the confidence of the buying public. That buying public will require proof in order to believe you ever again.

Rick
 
Every time we presume to know what
nature will do it fools us and does
something else. You have no idea what
nature might do, or what might be
created. You can say you don't think it
would happen, but to say it wouldn't is
a false assumption.
 
The corporation is more the marketing tools and peer pressure of the extreme organic/ anti groups.

Organic and anti crops have less tools available, tend to have seedier and less productive fields, tend to rely upon manures for fresh and root crops exposing
consumers to pathogens, exposing their land to more erosion and less balanced fertility.

All of which is less sustainable, and potentially less healthy crops or meat.

There can be good operations, and good or bad operations either wayof course.

But there is more potential for harmful contamination?s and for poor wuality in the organic anti systems than with gmos and balanced fertilizers.

In short, some consumers have been misled.

Just like bottled water. In many cases the stuff out of the tap is better for you; but people have this notion if they pay 10x as much for a bottle of water it will be better for
them.

It?s difficult to get on that bandwagon, Tank. It?s really difficult, when you are inside and see the goings on of the various groups.

Paul
 
Before you say I won't follow the
market, I intend to plant non-gmo corn
this year to try to get some of that
higher price. I just don't buy the
hysteria. I will profit from it if
possible tho.
 
Actually you have it exactly backwards successful organic operations have better balanced soil than anyone and far more micro elements in their soil.Chemical operations use fertilizers
with maybe 4 or 5 elements I apply kelp and Planters II that supply over 40 elements.
 
What good do those micro nutrients do if you're starving on macro nutrients? How do you actually get enough n,p,and k under your program to sustain soil fertility?
 
Why would you assume organic crops starve for anything? You must have absolutely no idea how organic crops are grown.I can show you several very successful organic dairy farms around
Dayton VA that have as good or better crops as any farm.I'll put my organic garden up against anyone's for the looks of the vegetables and the amount produced.
 
I'm NOT confusing it, I'm saying the you are changing the original organisms, just by using a different METHOD, you still are MODIFYING its code. If you want to use "genetically engineered" for gene spliced organisms that is fine, but BOTH have been modified. Using any other terms is to play on emotions not intellect
 
See my post below. I'm saying there is a difference between "genetically MODIFIED", and "genetically ENGINEERED". Both hybridized and gene spliced organisms have been MODIFIED, but by different methods. If you really want people to care about what you consider "bad" changes they need to understand the difference. And I'm sure that since it is now produced by gene spliced bacteria, that insulin dependent diabetics who don't want GMO anything will give up their medicine.
 
A garden is not a farm and is almost unrelated. Everyone can garden organically. I'm talking about large scale farming where soil tests prove the soil fertility is preserved. Can you say those dairies use only grain raised on farms where fertility is maintained?
 
Mules don't happen in nature? Roman writings and a few earlier Persian, note cross between wild/free ranging nomad horse and wild donkey. Roman circus had a few Lybian wild striped mules- cross between north Africa Onagers/wild donkey and zebra of central Africa overlapping range. Asian/Anatolian(Turkey) Lion and east Asia tiger possible cross old time of Persian Empire- script parchment, old greek recopies and reference to the maned tiger offspring in royal zoo. Non GMO corn has a market, sometimes profitable market in some EU/European countries where Non GMO goes into human consumption foods and the GMO is animal fodder at 1/2 price or so. Starlink contaminated corn case is example of what can happen- corn sold for taco shell/human consumption found to have the starlink GMO and food maker sued supplier that re-sued corn supplier that was supposed to keep GMO separate from non GMO to be used for human consumption food in markets where Starlink was not allowed for human consumption. Lawyer got lot of money, elevator/grainery that had mixed had to pay very much higher insurance premium. A market for human consumption in a politically Green dominate area will pay higher for non GMO, a USA internal market for corn for animal feed or ethanol doesn't care one way or other- but price difference for other market may be the break even plus profit price for grower. Soybean prices may vary- $7.00 to $10.00/bushel for oil seeds-- what would you think of buyer willing to pay double+ that price for Chinese Black soybeans semi organic grown?- that is one of most common 'human consumption' soybeans to make Tofu, extend Vegetable Protein, and just plain boiled and spiced beans for human consumption- that is profitable sub market for the 'Organic' edible soybeans. Yield rate of that bean is about 60 to 75% of round up ready oil seed, some minor equipment needs (manure spreaders, cultivators) different than most now common varietys but profit occurs for some Amish, Mennonites. GMO may have advantages but profit for market is a concern and the Non GMO market can be profitable for some growers. Profit is main driver for many enterprises and political and legal restrictions may drop profit margin below cost of growing. RN.
 
I don?t think most of the public will ever side with
the farmer because there is to much false
information out there some not false . People would
rather believe a Facebook meme than actually
spend time learning about the actual product
 
There is plenty of organic poultry manure available in the area as there are over 30 big organic chicken growers here they just purchased a $900,000 slaughter facility to get some idea of the size of the operations.Most of the grain I understand comes from organic grain farms on the Eastern Shore where Perdue contract grows organic poultry.You can doubt and say anything but walk into a Whole Foods,Traders Joes,
and Wegmans Supermarkets and there are thousands of high quality organic food items for sale.All three stores are within 15 miles of my farm.Plus every other super market in the area has an organic section.Those that live in the rural areas of the US apparently have no idea what goes on near and around the highly populated areas and how unpopular GMO's and chemically raised food is in areas like I live.Sure there are people that don't care or don't think abut it but they are less all the time.Take a look at the price of GMO grain that should tell you something.
 
(quoted from post at 12:26:32 12/05/18) I don?t think most of the public will ever side with
the farmer because there is to much false
information out there some not false . People would
rather believe a Facebook meme than actually
spend time learning about the actual product

The problem there is you have published researchers who swear up,and down that research projects were canceled due to monies chaining hands between Monsanto and Cargil and college administrators. Now seeing as no one has as of yet provided what's called evidence I'm having trouble believing them. But there are lots of folks out there who do believe them and it has nothing to do with facebook or memes.

So what you have here is what might be tainted data and no one knows what to believe. What to do? Trust the chemical companies who have a bad reputation anyway or look at non GMO alternatives? That is what people are dealing with here. Honestly a lot of suburbanites see the farmer as the unwitting pawn who got sucked in by the not to be trusted chemical companies. So the consumer can look at research data from both sides. THen they have to decide who to trust. And FDA can say GMO's are safe but most of these people don't trust the government. SO discard the notion that the FDA is of any help.

Rick
 
I have no doubt about the marketing and selling of it, that is obvious. I also do not doubt large companies are raising large quantities of animals organically. Where it falls apart is that there is no way to do it without depleting the soil. Those chickens are raised on corn, and that corn must be organic. The only way that corn can be raised sustainably is of nothing leaves the land. But then the corn leaves, so how is that replaced? You say chicken manure, but that is only a portion of what is taken off because the eggs and animals never return to the corn farm. So how is that loss recovered? In most cases it's not, so the land is being depleted and so organic farming is not sustainable long term.

The second issue I have with it is that no one has been able to show any scientific proof that it is better. There is lots if evidence that it is inferior tho.

So once someone shows me a sustainable way to do it and shows me proof that it is at least as good as conventional I'll whole heartedly jump on the wagon. Until then I'll remain a doubter and keep asking the questions no one can answer.
 
In the 40s and 50s everyone had a garden and tended to buy from a relative chickens and a side of beef or what not.

In the 60s and 70s we went urban, and lot of science and technology opened up the world of processed food. It was good and clean and quick to prepare, folks were moving to town and to apartments without gardens, food was cheap to buy.

In the 80s we looked around and said hum, this easy to make processed food is kinda empty, and full of sugars and salt and no fiber; it?s exactly what we like to eat but it seems it?s not so good for is? Hum.

So groups formed up and wanted a closer connection to the old ways of food, and groups formed up and wanted healthier foods.

All of which is great, a good direction to move!

The food processors and the grocery stores looked around, and gulped. Their business model was to make processed cheap foods and sell it based on taste and convenience and use cheap ingredients. So they think tanked it, and decided they would join in on the ?foodie? market. They threw farmers under the bus, and started advertising their gmo free and organic labels as high-dollar, ?better? foods. With really big markups, so they continued to get the money flow.

Smaller farmers also joined in on the money flow, and started direct selling their produce on street corners. A small segment of the population is able to reach those corner markets, and are affluent enough to afford buying there.

Over time, the marketing turned to propaganda, and the good simple ideas of direct marketing and interacting between the farmer and the home cook turned into a mistrust and bad science and propaganda of putting down good safe food, to build up a high dollar fake market.

The pendulum swings, and as bad as the processed sugar junk of the 70s was, the current propaganda of gmo/organic is is equally bad.

Farmers make good clean pure food stocks.

How long you store it, how much you process it, and how ?easy? you want it to cook is what turns good wholesome food all us farmers produce into slop and bad junk.....

It?s not whether it is organic or gmo free. Those are silly, non issues.

But, the current premium prices the organic crowd enjoys depends upon building up some precieved difference to consumers. Traditional Farmer illustrates that very well here.

Folks wanted cheap easy quick food that appealed to their salt and sweet cravings.

We figured out that isn?t the best long term.

That?s a good thing. People wanting to be more in touch with where their food is grown, how it is processed, that is a good thing.

Clearly any thinking person can see farming organically is less sustainable than regular farming. That isn?t the message sold to consumers tho. Insects and weeds will rob some yield. Soils will erode more because more tillage is needed. Soils won?t be fertilized as well to create healthy crops because you can?t spoonfeed organic fertilizers, you can?t easily add just the one or two basics needed. You get a whole bucket of manure and slop it on with maybe not quite enough N and way too much P from the manure. Some of these organic nutrients need to be hauled in a long ways, mines in Chile or ocean seaweed needs to be hauled to the middle of the country. Manure comes from other farms to build up a poor organic soil. Organic farms are always stealing nutrients to build up their ground from others.

Then there is the danger of the pathogens in the manure transferring to the produce. Not a big deal in grains, but we can see the issues every year with root crops and leafy raw vegetables. Exposure to the manure load has a risk.

I really love the corner farmers markets, and families again interested in knowing the farmer and where their food comes from. Those are good trends.

The principles of organic production never really went away, and the technology of the last 20 years has us spoon feeding nutrients exactly as needed to the he crops, no waste, little extra running off the land. Weed control lets us do far less tillage. Cover crops are one of the hottest topics in conventional farming these days, manure management on conventional farms with a little commercial fertilizer to balance the soil out properly.

Nothing wrong with organic, nothing wrong with conventional. I think they are much more the same than different. Only difference is price, and the organic crowd seems bent on keeping their profits by making up stuff about their ways being ?better?, when clearly they are not.

Too bad the propaganda mill has gotten so out of whack. It has soured a lot of us on what it used to mean to be organic.

Paul
 
It?s all about the money.

there really isn?t a whit of difference between conventional and organic or gmo free grains.

The good or the bad is in how it is processed and handled and fixed for the plate to serve.

The wholesalers and the retailers are perhaps the bad actors here.

Farming is farming, seed in the ground, see that enough nutrients are there, keep weeds and insects away, harvest timely. It doesn?t matter organic or conventional.

Some few chemical residues get through conventional farming, not much. Some few pathogens get through organic production, not much. Both have some pluses and
minuses, but it?s all farming more the same than different.

Consumers are being misled.

It really won?t be honest of me to go grow and support and be an organic farmer, if I think it is overall worse for the land? Then I?d just be selling out?

No, I will continue to try to be the best farmer I can be. If I have an opportunity to be organic and be good at it and take care of the land, that is fine. If I can do a better
job and create more, better, cheaper food for all and preserve my land, I will do so conventionally.

I don?t want to be a sell out. I?m not going to lie to my customers.

Paul
 
It wouldn't matter what anyone showed or proved to you,you would have some rationalization how it was wrong.Doesn't matter I see it working fine and someone wants to think it doesn't
that is fine with me too.Really what GMO/chemical growers think about organic doesn't matter the organic growers and their customers couldn't care less.
 
You are totally wrong about convincing me. I've told you specifically what it will take to convince me, you just can't provide it so you say I'm unconvincable. I also don't believe your customers are as loyal as you think, I think as soon as organic becomes a financial burden they will quickly go back to conventional.
 
1. What is the soil test on your garden? What crop removal rates are you taking out, and what balanced fertilizer are you putting back on the soil to balance it? What does your chicken manure and your kelp have for analysis?

I know on my farm, every 2.5 acres. I apply what is needed for the next crop, I don?t apply extra where it isn?t needed. The soil tests show the areas of the fields where manure was overapplyed for many years back in the old days. I?m getting that balanced better by not applying much fertilizer on those areas.

Do you know? Or do you just apply some, maybe some more is even better, without knowing?

2. Are you growing the kelp yourself on your farm? If not, how iOS it sustainable? In what way, shape, or form is it sustainable to take plant matter from somewhere else to enrich your farm, and call that ?better? and sustainable? over what I do?

My questions are short and pointed, because it makes it clear the shortfalls of organic production.

I?d be happy to visit your garden, enjoy seeing what you do, and enjoy sharing the farming processes we both do.

My issue is that you somehow think your ways are superior to other ways.

I don?t think so. I think your ways and my ways are close to the same - farming.. I think in the last 20 years conventional farming has gotten a lot better with efficiency and environmental issues, and is now more sustainable than what you are doing.

Doesn?t bother me what you do, or what your customers buy. But I think we should be honest with them?

They might care some day, when they figure that out.......

Paul
 
Paul I believe that is the best statement on here regarding this situation. I am the same way just keep farming and selling all the corn I can. Most of ours is made into whiskey so guess it makes some folks happy.
 
None will quit because of what I think, I never said they would. But how many will quit when money is tight and they can save $2-300.00/month on their grocery bill?
 
(quoted from post at 13:46:10 12/05/18) It?s all about the money.

there really isn?t a whit of difference between conventional and organic or gmo free grains.

The good or the bad is in how it is processed and handled and fixed for the plate to serve.

The wholesalers and the retailers are perhaps the bad actors here.

Farming is farming, seed in the ground, see that enough nutrients are there, keep weeds and insects away, harvest timely. It doesn?t matter organic or conventional.

Some few chemical residues get through conventional farming, not much. Some few pathogens get through organic production, not much. Both have some pluses and
minuses, but it?s all farming more the same than different.

Consumers are being misled.

It really won?t be honest of me to go grow and support and be an organic farmer, if I think it is overall worse for the land? Then I?d just be selling out?

No, I will continue to try to be the best farmer I can be. If I have an opportunity to be organic and be good at it and take care of the land, that is fine. If I can do a better
job and create more, better, cheaper food for all and preserve my land, I will do so conventionally.

I don?t want to be a sell out. I?m not going to lie to my customers.

Paul

Paul. sorry gotta call you son some of this.

"there really isn?t a whit of difference between conventional and organic or gmo free grains."

You can prove this? With unimpeachable evidence? And there is absolutely no conflicting evidence?

"The good or the bad is in how it is processed and handled and fixed for the plate to serve."

Again what is your proof that how it's grown doesn't affect the final product?

"Farming is farming, seed in the ground, see that enough nutrients are there, keep weeds and insects away, harvest timely. It doesn?t matter organic or conventional."

Not even going to touch this one, way to many ways to disagree with that comment.

"Consumers are being misled."

Evidence? I'm sure some greedy lawyers would love to see that evidence so they can file class action lawsuits! So state attorney general offices might like to prosecute that too.

"No, I will continue to try to be the best farmer I can be. If I have an opportunity to be organic and be good at it and take care of the land, that is fine. If I can do a better
job and create more, better, cheaper food for all and preserve my land, I will do so conventionally."

That statement doesn't wash either. Not until you come out and demand that we stop turning food into fuel. Cause you have already created the cheap food by simply growing more that we can eat or run though our gas tanks combined. You guys and your cheap food. Sorry but you stop being believable when 41% of corn crown goes to ethanol. How can anyone take that as a serious statement?

In reality you should be encouraging organic and sustainable farming. They get less yield per acre thereby reducing production. The more land producing less will bring prices back up. The other options are for farms to fail taking land out of production (short term fix till other put that land back into production) or to find another way to use what is grown.

Rick
 
Based off of what you say humans should be extinct if organic is not sustainable. Since the beginning of man crops have been raised organically. Only the last 50-70 years has the farming been changed with synthetics to produce fuel.
 
Field corn and sweet corn are different types of corn. Is not the same thing. My understanding is 96% of sweet corn produced commercially in the US is non-GMO sweet corn. So if a consumer buys canned corn in the in the grocery they are eating non-GMO sweet corn not GMO field corn. There is GMO sweetcorn seed available, but as I understand not hardly any sold commercially for canned corn. It gets confusing when I read farmers are forcing me to eat GMO corn. Farmers are free to follow the market and choose whether they want to use organic , non-GMo or GMO food production methods. Consumers are also free to make food purchases the way they want.
 
A GMO CANNOT occur without the intervention of man. No way no how. Man splices in a gene from non compatible species.

--------------------------------------

So why are weeds now resistant to Roundup? Is some ***hat out there splicing the genes from weeds to non compatible species?
 
It's funny that when those rich greedy dealers and manufacturers update their products, reduce their quality, deliver poor customer service and generally don't listen to us customers, these forums are outraged calling for management accountability and firings, boycotts of products and manufacturers, new laws giving access to software and proprietary designs, supplier traceability, and cutting off government subsidies. When consumers demand the same from their food suppliers, our customers can go pound sand, LOL.

Maybe it is all about the money.
 
I have alot!! I grow Obsession 2 sweet corn, a round up ready triple stack gmo. I have people that love it and will only eat it, my kids include!
 
You guys that are always crowing about using food for fuel really get me going! The corn
used for ethanol only has the starch converted to alcohol, during the fermentation
process. Starch provides animals with energy. Meat animals don't need energy to make them
go fast, they need protein to make them grow fast. The distillers grain leftover from
making ethanol provides that protein! In other words, we are "getting all of the good" out
of the corn! Even before the ethanol industry was even thought of, the vast majority of
the corn grown in the United States was consumed by livestock! Why some people refuse to
understand something so simple is beyond me!
 
Who knows I don't think you realize just how well off many people are in this part of the USA,it amazes me and I live here around them.Like Wegmans they have a Lobster tank with live Lobsters
$14-$16 lb they sell right a long,huge selection of fresh fish selling up to $20 a pound,they sell a $13 hamburger.There is another store the really rich go for even higher priced things.A few extra dollar$ a month for organic food is pocket change.Many of the very well off city people have their own organic gardens or go to the several farmers markets.These people are true believers and I can tell you for sure if the 'other' party gains
power again in DC you will see Mega changes in Agriculture and how the land is farmed in the USA.Not what I want, but that is what is coming.Go to the Acres USA website you'll get lots of information,subscribe to the magazine if you want to keep up with what is going on.The political power center is here close to DC not in midwest farm country.
 
The fertilizer industry came about because there was a need for more crops than what was able to be produced without it. It is only through the use of fertilizer that we are able to feed the world today. If we were to go back to organic farming today there would be huge shortages even with today's improved farming practices and machinery.
 
Well I am glad the Organic and anti-GMO crowd got their daily uproar going to day!!! Facts, knowledge or anything else be damned as usual.

The original question was how reliable the Non GMO certification is. Well there is not really a certification for this. You sign saying your grain is non GMO and most places that buy it have you under a contract but it is tested right when you go to unload or sell it. The fast test takes about five minutes. They grind the grain really fine and then add water to it. Then they use test strips that show if the proteins/DNA used in GMO traits are present. They also show at what level too. These fast test will show very low levels of GMO. They can also show false positives some times too. These can be caused by a few other things. They usually asked you if there is a possibility of contamination IF your corn/soybeans fail the quick test. What happens next varies depending on the buyer. The most common thing to happen is they do an additional test that does not have as many false positives but it takes longer. Some places you may have to pay for the more in-depth test. Cost is around $25-50 for that test. If your not satisfied with those results you can send a sample off to most State testing labs for an "official" test. These cost around $100-150 and take 10 days or so. They will show the exact traits and percentages present in the sample.



The places I take grain to, only take non GMO corn or soybeans on certain days. They do this so they can handle the flow of grain with the extra testing time. Truthfully the NON GMO program is pretty good about keeping the GMO grain out of it. They can test for it.

This is much better than any of the organic programs I see. They often depend on the person selling the product to follow certified practices. There are almost no tests that will show NON GMO grain being different from organic grain. Non GMO can be tested and policed. Organic is a much harder thing to actually test/prove. I suspect that there is more non GMO grain sold as organic than you would think. The price difference is just too high for it not to happen.
 
You just made the best case for buying locally from a trusted producer you know.Just like all things where there is money to be made there are frauds scamming the system.But bear in
mind the frauds and crooks are the conventional producers trying to pass off their products as being something they are not.Not the real organic and non GMO producers doing anything wrong.
 
Evidently you have no idea about anything involving plant breeding. A "hybrid", as
pertaining to agricultural seeds, is an intentional cross pollination, in a controlled
situation, to hopefully bring together the best traits of the parent varieties. What you
refer to as occurring in the wild is not a hybrid, as the term is used in modern
agriculture. That is true "open pollination." The term GMO is a scientific word that has
been hyped up by people with an agenda, to scare people too ignorant to know better.
 
Most people do not know that just because corn is used for ethanol the buy products are still used for livestock feed . Therefore getting all the good out of the corn
 
Traditional farmer: I know of very few Organic guys that truly are 100% organic. The majority of them around here push/hide things they KNOW make for better yields/crops but are against the rules. Can you test a grown plant and tell me if the nitrogen came from manure or urea???? If you do not apply too much urea you can not tell. Same way with P&K too. So that leaves mainly the weed control that can be tested for.

So with the dollars being thrown at organic I bet there is a much smaller percentage of true organic being produced. It is human nature to a degree.
 
Amen, JDSeller, amen!

I think "organic" farming is the wrong term! If you look at and listen to these organic folks when they are talking about it, perhaps "o r g a s m i c" farming would be a better term!
 
So they are not really organic producers they are crooked conventional producers passing off their products as organic.Crooks and frauds like I said.I know some organic producers and they take great pains and expense to make sure they are following the rules.
 
Organic operations can use certain organic products to spray for insects. I've read that some of them are much more dangerous than their non organic counterparts!
 
If it has nothing to do with people getting stupid
ideas from where ? Then where did the idea of all
this unsafe food come from ? You talk about facts
can you show me facts of this unsafe food killing
someone ? No you can?t. maybe you and that lady
from the world Health Organization on tv have
something up your sleeve that nobody knows about
 
It really is all about the money! If it wasn't, you either give away what you produce, or raise enough for yourself and your family, and tell the rest of the world to go to Hades!
 
Well there are a lot of people that don't want their food poisoned while its growing including me and had rather what they eat gets its nutrition from organic not chemical sources.That don't want Roundup in their breakfast cereal.
And it must be quite a few around considering the premium organic brings in the market place.Anyway I'm not the one crying because I not making any money farming,you guys claim how great your products are but then cry about not making any money.You might want to consider the connection between producing what people want and making money.
 
😂😂. The only thing good I can see good about organic farming is you get a great crop of morning glory and ragweed . The raw milk tastes funny depending on how much ragweed the cow eats
 
The dairy I worked for was strict to follow the rules . One thing I like about organic it?s great for my moldboard plowing business
 
All fun arguments but as I've pointed out before the farmers will not have the final say regardless of which side they fall on, the consumers/customer will make the decision which
side prevails with their money and what they buy and don't buy.
 
Great! Free enterprise at it's finest! You've found something that works for you! Run with it! Traditional Farmer has found his niche! Great! The more people we have doing things differently, the better it works for everyone! My problem is when someone feels the need to run down what I do, and how I do it, in order to create a demand for what they do!
 
You and I agree,, the Organic thing around here has about run its course for the reasons you just stated no way to police it and too many cheaters. Only one place to sell non GMO corn within 130 miles of us. His argument is customers will force us to grow the stuff but I just never see it happening. Price is one thing but in my are just not that many affluent hippies that care about not eating gmo products. Answer is grow corn for the whisky makers... LOL
 
Well since even organic producers claim to average half the yield of regular crops over time, and since even in a good year we are capable of producing only about 5% more than what is needed to meet demand, should you get your wish and everything goes organic that would start out at about 45% short the first year and get worse over time as soil fertility deminishes. So it's pretty easy to back up what I claimed. Even if you were able to achieve a pie in the sky 90% yield you would still go back at a rate of 5% a year and shortages would start in a few short years. Those rich people wouldn't think so badly about Roundup once they we're having trouble filling their stomachs. Or do you say that yields would be maintained with organic?
 
I cannot speak for other organic producers but I custom organic farm 80 acres for the neighbor down the road. I farm mine conventionally. I charge him by the acre for every field operation I do. That is my only involvement. I do not have a horse in the race. I am aware of everything that is put on that farm and it is all accepted practice for certified organic production. My equip. is cleaned and re-cleaned when going from my conventional to his organic. Then first 20 bushels are flushed through combine and brought to my place and fed to my pigs. I have no reason to cut corners as I charge him for time spent cleaning equip. Even knock the dirt off cult. shovels when going to his and wash dirt off tractor. I make more money cleaning my equip. then I do for the field work so why not do it. I assure you the organic crops coming off that 80 acres are 100% pure, certified organic.
 
Interesting idea; create a problem then sell the solution! They have the know how to splice genes in any old plant they want to.
 
Well even if what you say is true, really I'm not going to worry too much if a bunch of Chinese factory workers go hungry once in a while.Biggest problem in the short term with ag
products World wide is huge surpluses of grain and dairy products that hungry people cannot afford to buy.You going to give your stuff away? Because if you are depending solely on
the US market the price of conventionally grown gain would probably be 1/2 what it is now.
 
No group catches more flack than organic producers and consumers.Plus since most conventional grain growers are milking the gov't for things like subsidies,subsidized crop insurance,forced ethanol fuel usage, etc
etc, as a taxpayer that gives me a dog in the fight and the right to weigh in on how things are being done.I'm for getting the Gov't 100% out of the farming business,let the free enterprise
system work.
 
Nope and the farmers I see selling in large quantities are the ones having the hardest time financially.Things that can be easily massed produced usually carry the lowest profit margin.
Its not how much you gross that counts its how much you net along with your profit margin.
 
I agree there is more money in organic but in field production there is more weeds you can?t control to . I guess I could go organic then take it out for 5 years then put it back in
 
I wish government would get out of the farming business to . Food price will go up but maybe a small farmer can make a living without working five different jobs
 

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