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How do you teach mechanics to college kids w/ no experience?

S

Squaralyn

New User
I work at Johns Hopkins, where our students are incredibly smart, but fewer and fewer come to school with hands-on mechanical skills.

It used to be that students interested in mechanical engineering degrees would have worked on motors and engines at home, but that's not the case anymore.

So a professor purchased two Ford N-series tractors--one is an 8N but I'm not sure what the other one is--for the students to tinker with, repair, and study. It's become one of the engineering school's most popular classes!


We wrote a story about it for the JHU news and info website. Thought it was a cool concept and wanted to share with other tractor enthusiasts :D

https://hub.jhu.edu/2018/11/28/tractor-class-1947-ford/


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GREAT IDEA... nothing beats hands on to see how things work. really could use some time in the drivers seat doing work with it too to see how the machine(s) react and behave and work.

Shoot. it would help if they knew how to figure things out in there head or at least on paper instead of relying on and having full (unwittingly) faith in what the computer spits out.
 
That helps some from the "engineers should have to work on things" issue, but mechanics can get at pretty much everything on those old Fords. What they need to make them work on is some of these new cars where you have to take the whole front of the car off to change a headlight bulb.
 
Thanks for taking the time and effort to post.

Having done tech school teaching myself, I think the school should have "moved up the ladder" somewhat and provided more of an incentive to
maintain the student's interest. I purchased a school restored 3000 from the prof. at a local JC and the subject matter was a working machine that was
in pretty good shape before they started the restoration. He pointed out the how it should be on the specimen before the project and after the
restoration made the comparison between the old and the new....the product of their ideas, fresh knowledge applications and efforts. The
Ns................and flatheads at that............

To an "old salt" that's an accomplished tractor restorer, what I see in the picture would be a gold mine. To a "newbie" young adult????????
 
Simple. Do as many of these as you can; Grow up on farm, work with Pop in barn, work on machinery, put them into Cub Scouts, get badges, leading on to Eagle Scouts, leading on to Robotics in grade school, then Robotics in high school, leading on to summer jobs in manufacturing plants in the area, leading on to Mechanical Engineering in University.
 
The best system I've seen is used by the U.S. Army Ordnance Center and School. You start with Basic knowledge and skills, (This is a hammer, this is a screwdriver, etc.) Students are taught how to use and care for tools. Next comes classroom presentations about the operation of a simple engine (explain combustion process, cycles, etc.) Then each student gets a B&S 5hp engine to completely disassemble, inspect, and re-assemble. The engine must run properly before moving to the next step. Next we each received a GM 6.2L diesel HMMWV engine and repeated the process. Electrical components are also worked into the schedule as needed (alternators, starters, etc.)with the appropriate information about theory of operation. At the end of the program, a vehicle is rigged by the instructors to simulate problems that require troubleshooting. Think clear lacquer on a set of points, kinked fuel lines hidden from view, etc. You will have much better results when the student has a good knowledge of what is supposed to happen in an engine, transmission, or electrical system before they touch it. If you show someone how to perform a tune-up without an understanding of what each component is supposed to do you have only shown them how to be a parts changer. Suggested reading- Army TM 9-243 "Use and Care of Hand Tools and Measuring Tools" and TM 9-8000 "Principles of Automotive Vehicles" Both publications are readily available in the public domain- they are not copyrighted. Just my two cent's worth, hope it's helpful. Gary- US Army MOS 63G, USAOC&S honor grad-1987.
 
I'm sorry for that! I thought it would be handy, but I can see how it would distract the eye. Thanks for letting me know.
 
I work for a large company with 1000s of engineers and its surprising how many of them do not know what a screwdriver is. ( some don't what soap and water is either but that another issue!)
 
Thanks for posting..........:)
Your post is proof, there are those that Teach for all the right reasons....:)

Before I retired from full time employment,I ran an evening class so as to bring workers up to speed on the theory of mechanics (Heavy Duty, Millwright, Fourth Class Power Engineering) so as they could qualify to challenge institutional examinations.
Once these individuals had a licence, they became PORTABLE, as In, they could always find a great paying challenging Job,and not be concerned with layoffs.

My biggest challenge, was not the lack of hands on experience,but rather to try to teach adults math, etc..,etc., whom had left the public education system, with at the very best grade nine education.

It make me feel good that Instructors,Professors are still out there thinking out side the box,however,maintaining the foundation of high end education that shall lead our Nations forward with citizens that shall be able to maintain a great income and not be on the assembly line when the lights are turned off.

Bob...Retired from full time work.. Power Engineer/ Aero Gas Turbine Tech.
 
John Hopkins is a good name for me. My cancer Dr. got part of her education there.
As for your engineers, Is the glass 1/2 full or 1/2 empty? Engineer response is that the glass is the wrong size.
I would lean towards the direction that is being taken as for motivation and the tractor is a good basis. It has simple
mechanical, electrical and hydraulics. It is not so overwhelming as to discourage interest and easy enough to work on. One of the
more daunting projects I have ever seen was two engineering students working on a steam locomotive with an old salt.
There may have been more than 2 but the day I passed through,that was all that was there that day.
 
(quoted from post at 11:09:11 11/28/18) It was distraction but in a good way. LOL The slide show did not need a link. Nice work.
Click to expand...

Ditto!
And great idea giving them Hands On.
Tom
 
People that have not disassembled and reassembled a Briggs and Stratten by age 14 should not be given hand tools . Give them whatever nerds do and be done with them .
 
All a BS engine is good for is a door stop or block under a wheel. Never liked them 40 years ago and less now.
As for using tractors for the intended purpose at school like this is a good idea. Even if they have not had a BS engine apart.
 
I have been using school boys here in my shop for years, one at a time till they get out of high school, I think I am on my 15th one now,,they are good boys and I talk to them as I work showing them the reasons why this goes there first and latter I show them why, I also show them the reasons why keeping the shop clean reflects on our work.. They catch on and do well and at the same time are helpful to me. I have thought about having a "Reunion" and get a Picture of us all together. Most of them stop in from time to time and visit,,it has been a good experience for them and me. In the old days apprenticeship was a good way to get young people motivated in a direction to a good occupation,,but new laws and fear of law suits have made this idea too risky or expensive to do.
 
A good plan to give them a kick start. I was already fixing stuff with
my dad when just a wee tyke. Sounds like the driving instructor who
was trying to teach a woman from one of those foreign countries. She
just couldn't get steering, brakes, etc. Finnaly told her to buy a
bicycle. After a couple of months riding the bike she was able to
figure how to drive. Not only do kids have no clue how stuff works, do
you know what "The Busted Nut Club" means? They strip every screw and
bust every bolt. When I worked for zerox that was an award they handed
out to students that didn't have calibrated fingers. You know the feel
of how tight something needs to be.
 
This is the way the Navy started out in my aircraft engine mechanics school. Basic tools, and how to use them. Then how the engine worked with a cut away engine. Then tests each week on what we studied. Stan
 
These kids were going to be engineers Ian, not automotive mechanics (or tractor mechanics for that matter). I think the things learned from working on something simple (be it tractor or something else that is basic) is the point of the exercise they are carrying out.
 
Excellent effort on your part. Thank you!! The biggest problem we have with kids today is that they have so many other activities and interests. Especially with computers & cell phones.

I tried to get my grandsons, ages 14 & 11, to work with me swapping a 27HP Kawasaki engine on my zero turn mower over their Thanksgiving break. Simple job, but a good learning experience for them. NOPE. They didn't want to take the time away from their computers. The good news is that the new engine runs great!
 
But then they get jobs designing items, and need to know they should think about how things are serviced. Maybe then they would think twice about designing a vehicle that you have to remove the front of the car to change a headlight bulb. Not a imaginative statement, you have to remove the front facia completely on my wife's Pontiac Torrent to replace the headlight bulb.
 
I had an mechanical engineer just out of school that did not know how to reverse a socket/ratchet. Then he asked me for a worm wrench which I figured out that he wanted an adjustable wrench. My comment to him was that I could not believe he really graduated from college.
 
4 of ~40 students in my Manufacturing class recognize and could choose a Hacksaw. I struggle every day with the issue. Jim
 
I?ve worked with scores of engineers, young and old, of varied disciplines and degrees. I would rate 1/3 as brilliant, another third as of average intelligence like anyone you might meet on the street, and a last third as absolute morons.
 
The boy working for me now wants to become a Mechanical engineer,,,I told him to keep in mind some of these ornery places that we need to deal with.. Right now I am changing the camshaft phasers on my 5.4 Ford 150,,now that is an ornery job with a lot of nasty to go with it...
 
My stepson had a roommate in college that apparently didn't know what the handle on the toilet was for.
 
I don't think there is a real big employment base for antique farm equipment fixers

More applicable and interesting might be
following trouble codes
even if it's using just a $10 dongle on a smart phone
using a automotive ossiliscope (under $100 now)
the ability to access data from the web
schematics
tracking down broken wires bad grounds and faulty components
with a certainty in diagnostics

Brake jobs
brake jobs
wheel bearings
brakejobs
balljoints


and here in the northeast rust belt how to free rusted bolts (without wasting time spraying and tippy tappy toeing about) torch em red hot
how to remove broken manifold studs
 
MOST Engineers are a PITA! Best ones are the ones that grew up on a farm or started wrenching at an early age. Most need to listen, a bit more, and not feel challenged if a different solution is offered
 
You really want to blow their minds??!?!?!?
After they get profincent (sp?) with the gas and/or diesel,
introduce them to a gas start over diesel such as an IHC MD or WD-9!!!!
 
You want their attention

make it a smartphone based class
using the smartphone to diagnose car trouble codes
using a smartphone to take the codes to a diagnostic procedure
perhaps even use smartphone as an automotive oscilloscope
using the smartphone to find schematics and repair data
using the smartphone to source and order parts
 
Very cool idea. Seldom hurts to try a different teaching technique - hats off to the college for trying SOMETHING.

I think many of the people that speak disrespectfully of engineering and the younger crowd of engineers haven't had the opportunity to work with some of the incredibly talented ones.

It can be very frustrating at times to answer simple questions that any 8 year old farm kid should know, but it makes it that much more rewarding to see that engineer grow and ask progressively more complex questions.
 
Actually I think things like you described are intentionally engineered into vehicles and tractors these days to discourage the owners from working on them
which makes it a lot more profitable for the manufacture and their dealers if the owners have to have them serviced and worked on at the dealer.
 
We had one that would take off his shoes, stand on the bowl and squat to do his business. We called him the shoeless s#@tter! Guess he was use to crapping in a hole in the sand.
 
Funny how many negative comments show up about the current generation of kids and how little they know about things we might
know about because we grew up with them. If any of them grew up where we did and had the same experiences that we did, they'd
be every bit as knowledgeable about things as we are, perhaps even more so. And the comment about the best engineers having a
farm background is the most ridiculous reply of all the negative ones posted on the topic.
 
I think that is a great learning experience for those kids. So now let me tell you about one of my engineers at work. I work for one of the largest granular fertilizer
companies in the world and we employee a lot of right out of college engineers. I few years ago we had a 12 foot by 30 foot granulator shear one of the bull gear splice
bolts off and the head of it went through the pinion. Lifted the vessel completely off the trunnions twice before the operator could shut it down and wedged the the bolt
head in the root of the bull gear. After many hours of time my millwrights were able to locate the bolt head and remove it and start cleaning up the the damaged teeth.
My department mechanical engineer walked up and asked me what the problem was and I explained it to him the best I could without being a smart azz and that we had damaged
the pinion but we were cleaning up the damage and the it should be alright. He looked at me with a dumb look on his face and said which gear is the pinion. I just turned
around and walked off. You have to understand at that time I managed over 20 maintenance people and was responsible for keeping a 5000 ton per day fertilizer plant running and this young man was hired in making a salary higher than mine. But I will say this he did turn out to be a pretty good engineer and left to go to anouther company not to long ago. And he took some of my knowledge with him when he left.I never turned my back on him again after the first time I tried my best to help him over the next few years. Some want to learn and some don't. Find one that does and do your best to help learn the the things we learned the hard way
 
I will agree with farm kids being the best engineers. I have a younger lady that works with me that grew up on a Turkey farm( and still helps load out when she can). She goes out with me to trouble shoot and I can send her back for parts and tools and always gets what I need. Everyone jokes that she get dirtier then us technicians. Another ones family is the largest egg producers in Indiana and one is a Texas cowboy and both have common sense.
 
It is a fact that when dire circumstances
arrive the latent talants and high spatial
aptitude of boys will out.
It's also a fact that when the boys arrive
the latent talents and ability of girls to
look pretty will out.
 
My last high school helper is in the Caterpillar school program and is doing very well. I showed him a lot of Basic repair techniques and he is picking up the newer High tech things well. He will be dedicated to work for Cat for 2 years with a starting pay of $24 per hour,,after that he has an open field of jobs to choose from should he not want to continue with Cat,,,but I feel Cat will be doing a lot to keep him,,this young man has a gift of being a good mechanic.
 
That class was an excellent idea! Not too big or small and straightforward purpose. The majority of the older generations of
machines are straightforward in the execution of their function. The remaining examples today will have a heavy "survivor bias"
fostered by their ruggedness and fitness for duty..... perfect for illustrating good basic design.

Do they also get exposure to manual machine tool operation? I've found it helpful to younger engineers and draftpersons to show
them physically and in person how we're making parts on a lathe or mill to illustrate why it's important draw a print in a
certain way or why it may be better to build a particular part from one piece instead of three or three parts instead of one.
 
The smartest, most down to earth engineer I've ever met worked for Bush Hog. His name is Bubba Dennis. I'm not sure if he had a degree, or was self taught, but his opinion was to make things as simple as they could be. He didn't believe in making them complicated, just for the sake of making them complicated! He told us one time that telling an engineer his idea wouldn't work was like telling him that not only was his baby ugly, but it was illegitimate, too!
 
This was a good idea. The engineering
college I attended had class projects to
design build and test a practical device. I
know one year the mechanical engineering
students had to build a gocart/four wheeler
that had to meet specs for climbing a
grade, speed ECT,ECT. I don't know if they
still do it but they do enter Nationwide
competitions to design, test, solutions to
specific problems. Our oldest boy attended
my Alma matar and as a civil/environmental
engineer competed for a nuclear waste site
remediation design. They had to demonstrate
their solution with a practical example and
of course show all calculations, complete
right up ECT,ECT.
 
And I bet your grandpa had a heck of a time getting you interested in hitching up a team of mules. Look how that kept you from making a living. Keep moving grandpa, lest you get run over.
 

It will be a good piece to get hands on and explore... Get a I&T FO-4 manual if nuttin else teach them to read the manual...

My son in law is a engineer he makes a 6 figure income he can afford to pay someone else to do his dirty work and focus on his job... No one is born a mechanic are a engineer its the drive that gets you there I am sure some of your students will have the drive some will not your job is to induce the drive.
 
Practical experience is important and is what is lacking in the newest generation coming into the engineering schools.
Without it, these students are handicapped from the start. This is why a kid who grew up wrenching on the farm or in Dad's
Garage or Body shop has a huge advantage over a kid who's only tool that fits his hand is an X-box controller.
My son is an ME and he's told me of a few things that he has seen when he was in school.

For example: A group of kids were bolting an engine into a Baja car they built from scratch. They struggled and struggled to
bolt this engine into the frame and just couldn't get the bolts in. There was much discussion about why the bolt holes didn't
fit and how the measurements could be off, etc. etc. My son went over to see what the problem was and noticed somebody had
tightened the first two bolts as soon as they were put it. He suggested they loosen the bolts, wiggle the motor to align the
holes, place ALL the bolts first, then tighten them down.

Now you or I would just know to do this automatically without so much as a fleeting thought to do it any other way. A kid with
no practical experience just doesn't know and such a simple thing becomes a major hurdle. They also twist off bolts because they
don't have a "feel" for how much torque to apply to a wrench, or cross thread a bolt for the same reason. The "feel" of a wrench
in your hand only comes with using one. They also try to bust a tightened nut loose with the open end of a wrench instead of the
box end. Pain is a good teacher because that learned experience when the wrench slips off will be remembered. Busted and
scrapped knuckles have a way of reminding you not to use a wrench that way again. Maybe a socket and T-handle would be an even
better choice. You can "tell" them how to do it but for most, they have to learn for themselves by doing. Someone once said;
"Good judgement comes from experience, and a lotta that comes from bad judgement". That's why hands on learning is much more
powerful than the lecture.

Benjamin Franklin said;
Tell me and I forget.
Teach me and I remember.
Involve me and I learn.

Mind you, these are smart kids. They can learn anything. They absorb information like a sponge and will be good MEs but without
coming into Engineering school without practical experience like previous generations, they are going to be a little slower
getting up to speed.

I'll add this story as well.
My son-in-law is a Marine and until just recently was a Crew Chief for the V-22 Osprey. This is a fairly complex machine with
three engines, redundant mechanical drives between them, redundant hydraulics and electronics, etc. He was taught how to tear
one of these machines down to the frame if necessary, make repairs and put it back together again and has done it many times both
on base and while deployed. He has a few stories to tell also about the quality of practical mechanical knowledge (or lack
thereof) walking through the door from the high schools of today. Luckily the military is pretty good at training fresh minds to
handle the job and there's lots of checking and rechecking of the work and repairs but again, they do some pretty stupid stuff
that is traced back to a simple lack of experience with anything beyond a laptop or X-box controller.
 
If you want the kids to know how to do something, you have to LET them do something. Nowadays most parents won't let the kids out of their sight, won't let them do anything even slightly risky. The only thing these kids have left are video games and smartphones, and you wonder why they get addicted...
 
I had some tree limbs over one of my barns and I couldn't get on the barn roof to get at them. Neighbor had a couple (out of 5) of boys old enough to
do the job. Rather than just having them over and doing as I did my 3, daddy came over with them and I told daddy what I wanted done and he told the
boys what I wanted done....and daddy couldn't even follow directions......like I told him to cut the branches even with the trunk so that they would scab
over. He didn't and they sprouted as you'd expect.....but I got the limbs off the barn.
 
Yup Two Dogs, that's the great thing about discussion forums, there's no rule that you have to agree with what is posted.
 
Straw Boss ..... great quote from Ben ..... but I believe you might be missing one word in the quote, I think this one below is complete.

"Tell me and I forget, teach me and I may remember, involve me and I learn"
 
Sure sounds better that way so I looked it up. Turns out its quoted both ways.
Also turns out ol' BF never said it in the first place. Some yahoo mistakenly gave him credit for it years ago and everyone ran with it.

The quote actually comes from the Xunzi.
Xun Kuang was a Chinese Confucian philosopher that lived from 312-230 BC. His works were collected into a set of 32 books called the Xunzi, by Liu Xiang in about 818 AD. There are woodblock copies of these books that are almost 1100 years old. The first English translation of the Xunzi was done by H.H.Dubs, in 1928, one-hundred and thirty-eight years after Benjamin Franklin died.

There is also the John Knoblock translation as follows:

Not having heard something is not as good as having heard it;
having heard it is not as good as having seen it;
having seen it is not as good as knowing it;
knowing it is not as good as putting it into practice.
 
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