I am restoring a 1953 IH truck that sat for 35 years. The driver rear brakes were the only ones seized to the drum. I got new shoes. The drum was turned by the shop. The top of the shoes are seated properly and I have the adjuster all the way in and the shoes are that tight on the drum that I can pound it on with a hammer but I can't turn the drum then. Since I am out of adjustment should I have the shop turn the drum some more or what should I do?
- Thread starter nrowles
- Start date
used red MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coon Rapids, MN
Make sure the shoes are seating properly. Sometimes a spring or washer on one of the shoe
stops get out of place and get under the shoe ear rest. I?m not sure if you got rebuilt shoes but
sometimes they tumble the cores and the ears get banged up or bent which can keep them from
seating properly. A file can take off any burrs or knicks that might be causing a problem.
stops get out of place and get under the shoe ear rest. I?m not sure if you got rebuilt shoes but
sometimes they tumble the cores and the ears get banged up or bent which can keep them from
seating properly. A file can take off any burrs or knicks that might be causing a problem.
Keith True
Well-known Member
Will probably have to see some pictures as to just what kind of brake setup you have.is the adjuster a rod,with a star wheel? Or,is it a cam affair in the middle of each shoe.Does it have anchor pins on one end? If we could see a picture of the setup straight on,and another taken of the rear of the backing plate,straight on,it would help to ID what kind of brakes you have.As you will find out,saying 53 International means you have narrowed it down to a half a dozen possibilities.also,half ton?3/4 ton?one ton? What model and size truck is it?
Steve@Advance
Well-known Member
I would shorten the adjuster or grind the linings.
Save the drums as much as possible.
Save the drums as much as possible.
Determined
Well-known Member
As others have said a better idea of what you are working on will result in suggestions more specific to your vehicle but regardless of what it is NO do not have the drums machined further to accommodate the shoes.
You either have linings that are thicker than they are supposed to be or there is a mechanical issue preventing them from returning to where they should be.
You either have linings that are thicker than they are supposed to be or there is a mechanical issue preventing them from returning to where they should be.
rusty6
Well-known Member
- Location
- East central Sask.
Don't cut those drums too much because new ones might not be available. I can't get one for the front of my 71 Loadstar anywhere. You are
supposed to take the drum and new shoes in to the brake shop so they can fit the shoes to the drum by a process, I think it is known as cam
grinding or something. They make the shoes fit the exact diameter of the drum so you get full contact.
supposed to take the drum and new shoes in to the brake shop so they can fit the shoes to the drum by a process, I think it is known as cam
grinding or something. They make the shoes fit the exact diameter of the drum so you get full contact.
rusty6
Well-known Member
- Location
- East central Sask.
Don't cut those drums too much because new ones might not be available. I can't get one for the front of my 71 Loadstar anywhere. You are
supposed to take the drum and new shoes in to the brake shop so they can fit the shoes to the drum by a process, I think it is known as cam
grinding or something. They make the shoes fit the exact diameter of the drum so you get full contact.
supposed to take the drum and new shoes in to the brake shop so they can fit the shoes to the drum by a process, I think it is known as cam
grinding or something. They make the shoes fit the exact diameter of the drum so you get full contact.
TGP
Member
Some good ideas here but don't turn the drum anymore.
A picture or more information would be a great help.
If we knew the model would help because then maybe could
Look it up in the truck manual to see what type it has.
Are the brakes full floating?
Meaning are the "heal" of the shoes able to float.
This type would have the adjuster screw between the two shoes.
Some were fixed anchor type were the heal of the shoes are
Pinned and cannot move other than to rotate.
This type uses a cam on each shoe at the top to adjust.
The bottom anchor pins also are a cam and can be rotated to center the shoes.
Once centered the lower cams are not to be bothered.
When further adj. is needed the top cams are used.
Tom
A picture or more information would be a great help.
If we knew the model would help because then maybe could
Look it up in the truck manual to see what type it has.
Are the brakes full floating?
Meaning are the "heal" of the shoes able to float.
This type would have the adjuster screw between the two shoes.
Some were fixed anchor type were the heal of the shoes are
Pinned and cannot move other than to rotate.
This type uses a cam on each shoe at the top to adjust.
The bottom anchor pins also are a cam and can be rotated to center the shoes.
Once centered the lower cams are not to be bothered.
When further adj. is needed the top cams are used.
Tom
TGP
Member
Ok, now the picture show up.
That's a bendix floating brake. All looks well except the shoes don't appear to be centered on the backing plate from what I see.
They look low for some reason.
Same shoes as you took off?
Anchor nails in the same proper holes?
Wheel cyl. upside down?(left on right , right on left)?
It just don't look right.
Tom
That's a bendix floating brake. All looks well except the shoes don't appear to be centered on the backing plate from what I see.
They look low for some reason.
Same shoes as you took off?
Anchor nails in the same proper holes?
Wheel cyl. upside down?(left on right , right on left)?
It just don't look right.
Tom
Jim.ME
Well-known Member
- Location
- central ME
Can't see the drive shaft but short lining should be to the front, long lining on the rear.
Janicholson
Well-known Member
Though the image might distort the facts, the spring retainers with the "nails" look like they aim away from each other. They
should be pretty straight out. If you have a drum off, and place a shoe in the drum and slide it around in contact, the center of
the shoe should touch the drum, not to toe and heal. If toe and heal, they might be the wrong shoes. A worn drum and new correct
shoes will not have the toe and heal touch. If the front of the truck is to the left, the shoes are reversed, primary in back,
secondary in front. If the front of the truck is to the right, they are correct. Jim
should be pretty straight out. If you have a drum off, and place a shoe in the drum and slide it around in contact, the center of
the shoe should touch the drum, not to toe and heal. If toe and heal, they might be the wrong shoes. A worn drum and new correct
shoes will not have the toe and heal touch. If the front of the truck is to the left, the shoes are reversed, primary in back,
secondary in front. If the front of the truck is to the right, they are correct. Jim
Determined
Well-known Member
(quoted from post at 20:29:05 11/22/18) No emergency/parking brake. Shoes appear to be seated properly and no more adjustment to be had. It seems it is a bit tighter at the top though so maybe I will pull the shoes off and clean/file a little bit.
I am looking at your photo and I see a self energizing brake shoe system.
Correct me if I am wrong, looking at your photo I believe it is of the drivers side rear.
If it is then the shoes are on backwards.
The primary shoe (the one with the shorter lining) is supposed to be installed toward the front of the vehicle.
I suppose you already turned the old shoes in as cores?
If you still have them compare the metal "frame" of the shoes, the overall shape and the location of each and EVERY hole and notch.
Medium trucks, even within a given year typically use a variety of axle and brake components of different series and from different suppliers, and it's entirely possible they sold you the wrong shoes.
The LAST thing you want to do is remove any more metal from the drums.
If you still have them compare the metal "frame" of the shoes, the overall shape and the location of each and EVERY hole and notch.
Medium trucks, even within a given year typically use a variety of axle and brake components of different series and from different suppliers, and it's entirely possible they sold you the wrong shoes.
The LAST thing you want to do is remove any more metal from the drums.
used red MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coon Rapids, MN
Where the shoes set against the top anhor pin are they touching on the bottom side of the pin not
letting them seat properly? I can?t see due to the spring retainer? If so grind the ears so they seat
tightly against the pin tightly. Another thing you can try is to place the drum on and tighten the
adjuster as tight as you can then back it off. This may spring the shoe slightly to better fit the
drum. If the above does not solve the issue I personally would file the notches deeper that the
adjuster sets in. You could also look at the lining and see if you can see where it is dragging the
most and sand the shoe at that point with 80 grit paper wrapped on a 1x4 board.
letting them seat properly? I can?t see due to the spring retainer? If so grind the ears so they seat
tightly against the pin tightly. Another thing you can try is to place the drum on and tighten the
adjuster as tight as you can then back it off. This may spring the shoe slightly to better fit the
drum. If the above does not solve the issue I personally would file the notches deeper that the
adjuster sets in. You could also look at the lining and see if you can see where it is dragging the
most and sand the shoe at that point with 80 grit paper wrapped on a 1x4 board.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
Back in the day, most automotive machine shops could "arc" brake shoes to fit the drum. I believe OSHA and/or EPA regulations put a stop to that. When you take your brake shoes off, put them inside the drum and see how closely the shoe radius matches the drum radius. If the shoes are only touching the drums on the ends of the liner material, you can probably make them fit just by removing a bit of material.
As mentioned the primary (shorter lining) goes to the front. Do you have the old shoes, if so compare them, make sure they are the correct
shoes. If so remove the adjusters and make sure they will turn all the way in you may need to take them apart and clean the threads . If the
shoes are correct, on the right way adjuster all the way in and still no go you may need to take the drums and shoes to a truck brake shop that
can turn the shoes and drums together for a perfect fit. On heavy duty brakes there are oversized linings made to compensate for drum wear.
You also might ask where you got the shoes if this is a possibility and if so if standard linings are available . Did you get new shoes or have
yours relined ?
shoes. If so remove the adjusters and make sure they will turn all the way in you may need to take them apart and clean the threads . If the
shoes are correct, on the right way adjuster all the way in and still no go you may need to take the drums and shoes to a truck brake shop that
can turn the shoes and drums together for a perfect fit. On heavy duty brakes there are oversized linings made to compensate for drum wear.
You also might ask where you got the shoes if this is a possibility and if so if standard linings are available . Did you get new shoes or have
yours relined ?
Keith True
Well-known Member
Things do look right in the picture.you have what I call the modern style brakes.They do need to be fitted to the drums though,if you take them out and lay them in the drums you can see how much contact you have.If you are lucky you only need to shave down the ends.(most common)Back then garages had what is called a Brake Dokter.You fix it to a jig on the axle,and a little electric motor grinds the shoe as you turn it.I have a picture of mine,but not in use.Youtube has videos of them in use.Much easier to watch than explain.The machine shop says nobody has stopped them from grinding shoes,but when the arc machine has not been used for 21 years it was time to stop wasting the floor space.Where you can actually hammer the drums on,and get them off again,you are really only a few thousanths too big.
Grandpa's Fords
Member
Just my curiosity, but doesn't the wheel cylinder seem a bit extended while the top of the shoes appear to be tight at the top?
I realize that you have cleaned them well but they look as though they haven't been compressed or maybe bound.
I realize that you have cleaned them well but they look as though they haven't been compressed or maybe bound.
Brake shoes are new and match exactly to the ones I took off with the exception of a lot more lining. Wheel cylinder is new.
I pulled the shoes and filed the notches bigger and then put back on with the shorter lining front. I can now get drum on easily but when I rotate the drum I get about 1/3 rotation freely and then it catches to the point where I can't turn by hand. I can tell it is catching at the top of the lining, also at the bottom but less and also on the inside for a length. I've sanded quite a bit and I've filed a second time and they still want to catch. Seems odd that it wants to spin freely then catches. Almost seems something is out of round or bent?
I pulled the shoes and filed the notches bigger and then put back on with the shorter lining front. I can now get drum on easily but when I rotate the drum I get about 1/3 rotation freely and then it catches to the point where I can't turn by hand. I can tell it is catching at the top of the lining, also at the bottom but less and also on the inside for a length. I've sanded quite a bit and I've filed a second time and they still want to catch. Seems odd that it wants to spin freely then catches. Almost seems something is out of round or bent?
used red MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coon Rapids, MN
Well hmmm? I wonder if they had it centered properly when they turned it? Did they turn it
mounted on the bearing hub? Do you have any way to rotate it on its bearings on a shaft to check
if the drum it turned true to the bearing races? Hate to tell you to take it back to get it checked. In
general those old drum brake systems were not that particular, but there is a lot to be said for
having it right when it goes together.
mounted on the bearing hub? Do you have any way to rotate it on its bearings on a shaft to check
if the drum it turned true to the bearing races? Hate to tell you to take it back to get it checked. In
general those old drum brake systems were not that particular, but there is a lot to be said for
having it right when it goes together.
I put a mark on the drum. It binds in the 2 o'clock to 6 o'clock position and with the drum/hub off I can't get it on when the axle is in that position. I put a dial indicator on the axle and it appears it's about 7-8 thousands out. Not sure how I can get a precise reading on the trueness of the drum.
Janicholson
Well-known Member
You need a different axle. Or have the axle straightened to less than .001. A 60 ton press, and a little time can fix it. Jim
caterpillar guy
Well-known Member
If you put the drum on backwards then turn it with a measure (rod stick or what have you ) you can see if things are turning true or if they are of. A dial indicator would give you thousandths for out of round or not true. There are tolerences for drum diameter to not turn it bigger than.
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