Heard on the radio the other day because the farmers wanted it a bill was signed allowing 15% ethanol to be available all year long. I don't know the details but could not help thinking about you guys on here who all hate 10% ethanol gas and all the claimed troubles it causes. But at the same time the farmers claimed they wanted it upped to 15% so as to sell more crops. Might be even harder to find non ethanol gas ?
- Thread starter Mike M
- Start date
Bruce from Can.
Well-known Member
- Location
- Woodville, Ontario, Canada
Here in Ontario, Canada, we have 10% ethanol gas all year round for many years now. To me this blended gas has only ever been an issue with carbureted engines, not with fuel injected. Also only been a problem for me with engines that sit dormant for 6-10 months. I shut off the gas and let the engines starve , and run out of gas , before they are left for winter. In the spring , turn on the gas, and crank them over and start no problem. Leave them with gas in the carb, sometimes they start, sometimes they won?t. The Briggs and Stratton on my tiller , will never start in the spring with gas left in it all winter.
Russ from MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bemidji MN
That's one of this administrations solutions to the disastrous trade war! If you vehicle is a flex-fuel it's fine, but otherwise? I have run it in our truck (by accident) and it seemed to run fine, the truck is a flex-fuel. Theoretically it should reduce mileage.
farmallsandcoops
Member
Not a bill signed. EPA will seek public comments on allowing E15 fuel to be sold all year (currently can't be sold in some areas from June 1-Sep 15). It is not a mandate. Oil industry promising to go to court which usually means a delay.
First off I would bet that it is all govemnt bs. Auto manufacters have already said if over 10% and your engine blows up....toooo bad, no warrantys. Just think back, how mAny times have you heard s5uff from your gov. and a couple of years latter it was all proven wrong. Most all of the leaches in gov. don't care about you or me. Line their pockets. Just think back to the past two months and remember what the DEMomobs were doing.
Everyone appears tto cling to wanting to be controlled by Big Oil, and believe that side of the propaganda over all else.
Mediocre engine mechanics have found an easy way to keep their businesses thriving - just blame ethanol, do a poor job fixing stuff, and when the customer comes back just blame ethanol again. Perfect business plan.
Benzene and MTBE both cause cancer and one lingers for years in the environment, but they are much much better for us than anything that grows in a field. People just lap that stuff up, no it?s good for us!
Lemmings to the sea....
Paul
Mediocre engine mechanics have found an easy way to keep their businesses thriving - just blame ethanol, do a poor job fixing stuff, and when the customer comes back just blame ethanol again. Perfect business plan.
Benzene and MTBE both cause cancer and one lingers for years in the environment, but they are much much better for us than anything that grows in a field. People just lap that stuff up, no it?s good for us!
Lemmings to the sea....
Paul
dr sportster
Well-known Member
I believe nnalert passed a bill yesterday to stop sales of ethanol gas in the summer. That is what I thought I heard on the news.
Being in the auto restoration hobby, and working on cars for 50 years might give me a different perspective. Failures due to Ethanol that I have personally seen many times;
Boat plastic fuel tanks disintegrated
Boat fuel filler hose turned to goo
Boat filler cap O ring destroyed
Boat and auto plastic carb floats melted
Boat and auto rubber flex fuel lines split and leaking(causing more than one fire)
Electric fuel pump plastic impeller stuck and soft
I've taken pictures of this and have them for customers who also don't believe the damage just from Ethanol fuel. It's taken time, but finally many parts mfg are using more stable rubber and plastic parts that can tolerate Ethanol mixes. In the bad days, it was a weekly thing for vintage cars and boats.
From the Gen Aviation side, Ethanol laced fuels are strictly prohibited in all FAA cert planes. The only exception is the newer Light Sport planes which are designed and tested with Ethanol, and they are a tiny percent of the fleet.
continue to dis-believe the damage. Doesn't matter to me either way. I still have to fix the stuff that's brought to me not running.
Boat plastic fuel tanks disintegrated
Boat fuel filler hose turned to goo
Boat filler cap O ring destroyed
Boat and auto plastic carb floats melted
Boat and auto rubber flex fuel lines split and leaking(causing more than one fire)
Electric fuel pump plastic impeller stuck and soft
I've taken pictures of this and have them for customers who also don't believe the damage just from Ethanol fuel. It's taken time, but finally many parts mfg are using more stable rubber and plastic parts that can tolerate Ethanol mixes. In the bad days, it was a weekly thing for vintage cars and boats.
From the Gen Aviation side, Ethanol laced fuels are strictly prohibited in all FAA cert planes. The only exception is the newer Light Sport planes which are designed and tested with Ethanol, and they are a tiny percent of the fleet.
continue to dis-believe the damage. Doesn't matter to me either way. I still have to fix the stuff that's brought to me not running.
whereswaldo
Member
Pres. talked about this when running for office-in favor. So far, it hasn't happened. BUT, he gave the oil companies several loopholes to avoid the alcohol. Near an election and he's trying to make points but I doubt it will happen-just another empty promise. BTW, vehicles older than 2001 won't run very long on 15%---the plastic lines in the fuel system deteriorate just as the lines in chain saws and small 4 cycle engines do. Tractors with cork gaskets and floats also have problems--cork is bonded together with shellac and alcohol is a solvent for shellac.
casecollectorsc
Well-known Member
- Location
- E central SD.
I have been running E-30 in a 93 Olds 98 for five years without one fuel problem. All gas vehicles here use E-30 just fine.
casecollectorsc
Well-known Member
- Location
- E central SD.
Wife's 2008 Dodge Caravan runs on E-85 as the mfg. says is fine. Your "over 10% and engine will blow up" statement is misinformation.
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
I can back you up on that. I did a tune up on a generator on a house boat. A week later I got a call from the Coast Guard. Boat had
blown up two people were in the hospital. I was the last one to work on it so I was the one they were looking at. Found all the fuel
lines were mush and leaking fuel. Found out that the marina had just filled the tanks. Boat owner got gas that monday. Tested the fuel
found ethanol in it. Tested five other boats on the fuel list. All had soft leaking fuel lines.Marina had to stop selling fuel all
five boats. Had to have their tanks pumped and fuel systems replaced. So you can claim it is a myth all you want. I have seen the
results.
Remember MBE. There was a tanker turn over just outside Dallas. Spilled into a creek. They sat up a plant to burn and clean the
ground. For three miles on either side of where the tanker crashed. Down to 20 feet. I had to wear a mask on that site. Some days we
had to wear OBA. Took just under a year to clean up the mess.
blown up two people were in the hospital. I was the last one to work on it so I was the one they were looking at. Found all the fuel
lines were mush and leaking fuel. Found out that the marina had just filled the tanks. Boat owner got gas that monday. Tested the fuel
found ethanol in it. Tested five other boats on the fuel list. All had soft leaking fuel lines.Marina had to stop selling fuel all
five boats. Had to have their tanks pumped and fuel systems replaced. So you can claim it is a myth all you want. I have seen the
results.
Remember MBE. There was a tanker turn over just outside Dallas. Spilled into a creek. They sat up a plant to burn and clean the
ground. For three miles on either side of where the tanker crashed. Down to 20 feet. I had to wear a mask on that site. Some days we
had to wear OBA. Took just under a year to clean up the mess.
onefarmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- 6735 S Lowell Rd, St Johns, Mi 48879
If E-xx is so bad how does my 78 Pinto keep running? Yes I had to replace the rubber fuel lines but that was back in 1980. There was a station in Lansing that sold regahol basically leaded gas with 10%. Then the unleaded e10 came out. Been running it ever since.
Oh and it hasn't blown up yet either. lol
Oh and it hasn't blown up yet either. lol
gene bender
Well-known Member
no bill has been signed just a suggesting to EPA allowing it to be sold yr around. All new cars made since 2004 can use it and it works just fine cleaner emissions less depending on oil. Valero the largest refining company in the USA has their own alcohol plants. They also have thousands of gas stations.
DoubleO7
Well-known Member
- Location
- Crystal River, FL
You guys are a barrel of laughs if you expect 35+ year old fuel lines, floats, diaphragms, plastic and fiberglass fuel tanks, etc. etc. to be resistant to ethanol degradation.
So when you use ethanol fuel in fuel systems that have 35+ year old parts and they fail, do not blame ethanol.
Blame the lack of preparing the system for use of ethanol.
And since the type of fuel put in is up to you, your really the only one to blame.
So when you use ethanol fuel in fuel systems that have 35+ year old parts and they fail, do not blame ethanol.
Blame the lack of preparing the system for use of ethanol.
And since the type of fuel put in is up to you, your really the only one to blame.
DoubleO7
Well-known Member
- Location
- Crystal River, FL
Long in the works before current admin.
TomA in CA
Member
Most of you guys are too young to remember when tetra-ethyl lead was spiked into the low quality gas they were peddling back then. That stuff turned to a tar that couldn't be removed by anything. At least any problems caused by alcohol can be mitigated by updating materials in hoses etc. There used to be rumors about lead being good for valves. Back when leaded gas was used engines used to need a valve job frequently, now it is practically unheard of. Lots of bs comes from the oil industry.
DoubleO7
Well-known Member
- Location
- Crystal River, FL
How hard have you looked for pure fuel? [urlhttps://www.pure-gas.org/[/url]
Secondly, do not run ethanol in anything when components of the fuel system are 35+ years old until the components are converted to ethanol resistant parts.
....and from people that presume to know facts! Why to engines no longer need frequent valve job? Because without lead the seats eroded, so without lead, a better seat was engineered. Lead was not causing the problem! That is was the problem is the "rumor". I have stored for 20 years a barrel of leaded gasoline and burned it without any engine problems. I have destroyed my welder's fuel system with E10 by letting it sit for a few months. If I catch you putting ethanol in any of my small engines, you better run.
onefarmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- 6735 S Lowell Rd, St Johns, Mi 48879
Just south of Ionia, Mi there is a station you can choose e10, e15, e30, or e85. I sure there are others. I understand, but haven't seen one yet, that have mixer pumps that mix what you want.
onefarmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- 6735 S Lowell Rd, St Johns, Mi 48879
I drove a 2011 Silverado from MI to Colorado then to Florida two years ago. I ran e85 when the price was right and I e10 (whatever the regular was) the rest of the time. In dollars per mile they came close. Depended on the price of each. I did get about one or two less mpgs with the e10. Eventually I went with just the regular for a little more range between fill ups. At home I'm happy with e85.
I am soon to being 40 years old. I have owned 8 vehicles in that time. One was a 1979 F100 with a carburetor. Every other vehicle was built 1986-2005. Several I have owned for 10-20 years. With the exception of the F100 I used 10% ethanol. I have YET to have a fuel related problem with every single vehicle. Not even a fuel line. I do remember growing up and remembering dealing with frozen fuel lines on cars on cold winter days, that doesn't happen anymore.
I use non ethanol on small engines and old tractors but I would like to see it possible to run it in everything.
I use non ethanol on small engines and old tractors but I would like to see it possible to run it in everything.
Like I said, I don't have a problem with ethanol. I drive a flex fuel truck.
I have looked for ethanol free gas for some vintage stuff. There's one station 20 miles away that started carrying it a month ago. The next closest station is an hour away and a few more 2 2 1/2 hours away.
It's not possible to convert everything to be compatible.
I will violate the law and buy non oxygenated gas at that point. I don't like running 10% why on earth would I want to run 15%?
Some of you guys make me laugh. Feeding the world are you? Raising crops that are not fit for human consumption? That are destined to be put into gas tanks? Don't lie, the only thing you are feeding or trying to feed is your own pocket.
Rick
Some of you guys make me laugh. Feeding the world are you? Raising crops that are not fit for human consumption? That are destined to be put into gas tanks? Don't lie, the only thing you are feeding or trying to feed is your own pocket.
Rick
We have an estimated 2.37 billion bushels of corn in storage in this country right now according to usda. We have enough on hand to make a bunch more ethanol for E-15 fuel, and have plenty left over for food uses. EPA may take 3-4 months to pass on it for consumers. They would have no reason not to pass on it. Car / truck.engines built since 2003 or so should run fine on it. Will be a huge help to corn farmers and ethanol plants to keep them up and running, boost the rural economy. It is a voluntary action for consumers to purchase e-fuel seems to me.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Plenty of stations here sell non ethanol gas,5% more reason to keep on using it.
"[b:23bf0cf1f6][i:23bf0cf1f6]Some of you guys make me laugh. Feeding the world are you? Raising crops that are not fit for human consumption? That are destined to be put into gas tanks? Don't lie, the only thing you are feeding or trying to feed is your own pocket.[/i:23bf0cf1f6][/b:23bf0cf1f6]"
How truly generous you are to come to a place of generally ag related topics and sit by your keyboard with a mouth full of food and cuss the farmer.
Of course they attempt to turn a profit. How else would they stay in business? If a profit is wrong in your eyes, I suspect you'd prefer a more socialist method of operation.
I'd find it truly ironic if the day were to come when you can't get a slice of beef, a quart of milk, or loaf of bread for you table. Then you will have a clear throat and unobstructed mouth when you curse the folks that feed you.
[/i]
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
I don't know about him but I feed myself,raise and hunt for almost all my meat raise a lot better fruits and vegetables than are in the grocery store.Not a lot of people eat field corn that I know of.
Texasmark1
Well-known Member
As I posted elsewhere yesterday after reading about it on non-MSM, the president asked the EPA to look into it and the reason was as being discussed here. The flip side of the coin is that many engines, small and marine of which I know specifically state in the owner's manual that 10% is max. So, as with anything else where will be deliberations on the subject.
As stated, no law as yet, just asking about feasibility.....and yeah my flex fuel 2011 Silverado doesn't care how it comes out.
As stated, no law as yet, just asking about feasibility.....and yeah my flex fuel 2011 Silverado doesn't care how it comes out.
"[b:b4e75a75ae][i:b4e75a75ae]I don't know about him but I feed myself,raise and hunt for almost all my meat raise a lot better fruits and vegetables than are in the grocery store.Not a lot of people eat field corn that I know of.[/i:b4e75a75ae][/b:b4e75a75ae]"
You don't buy any feed for you animals, your hunted animals don't eat corn? Do you know how many items in your cupboard come from "FIELD" corn?
I can't do this conversation any longer, This has gotten way too far out in space for me.
My gas is the same as Bruce's, 10 percent. We run every gas engine on it...from a 2018 Chevy to a 1955 Massey Harris and everything in between. Probably fewer problems than non ethanol due to less carb icing and gas line freezing. Maybe the gasoline in Canada is refined and blended differently than that in the US.
Ben
Ben
gene bender
Well-known Member
Why doesent my rubber fuel line on the tractor melt its been there for 30yrs use it for many things Rubber line is made for gas just what kind of line was on those boats
Right, so being controlled by Big Corn is gonna be better than Big Oil? And FYI, I have see, 1st hand, repeatedly, the problems enthanol fuels blends cause in 2 stroke engines and 4 stroke small engines here with our blends. It isn't a matter or doing a poor job fixing stuff when fuel lines turn to gummy worms.
I can absolutely guarantee it can happen with some types of fuel line. I've seen it several dozen times. There was no other change other than the fuel used. It's not rocket science, some materials just aren't compatible with some chemical compounds. It's really that simple.
Just because the specific line you used isn't affected by your specific blends doesn't mean others aren't. There are about 50 types of "rubber" fuel line out there, none of them actually being "rubber". I've seen fuel line get all soft and squishy in a matter of days when exposed to ethanol. I've also seen a lot of "rubber" fuel line crack when exposed to ethanol and lot of it that wasn't affected at all. There are too many people relaying their bad experiences with ethanol blends, myself included, for me to believe they are all liars.
Well I see the welfare state has infected farmers too. You have a great sense of entitlement to think that just because you are there anyone should be forced to buy your products and use them so that you can keep going! Farmer welfare is all the EPA renewable fuel thing is.
You don't feed me, not with corn raised for ethanol and beans raised for bio. To claim you do is bold faced lie. What makes you think you are entitled to force your garbage on me or any other American? Get this. Me and lot of others on here spent part of our lives dedicated to this thing called the Constitution and the Amendments. The 1st Amendment gives me the RIGHT to bad mouth anyone without or WITH my mouth full of food.
And guess what. The earth had man as hunter gatherers long before anyone started farming. You want to claim you feed me then stop raising garbage I can't or won't eat.
Rick
Rollie NE PA
Well-known Member
You are consuming more corn or corn based products than you realize.
How? I can read a label and buy very little in prepared foods.
Most often I buy free range and grass fed meat and veggies. A few potatoes. So just were is this corn coming from?
According to what I can find 41% of the corn grown and about 60% or the beans are turned into fuel. So the mean average is 50%? Does that mean that we can eliminate 50% of the farms/farmers?
Yup the guys who produce about 45% of the grains grown in the world and then send over 40% to be turned into fuel.......then claim to feed the world. Then have the nerve to try to stifle my right to speech? Yea I have the right to speak and I have the right to do it with my mouth full.
Rick
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
And don't forget the grain grown by US farmers to feed the slave labor in China that staffs their factories that then can then send cheap goods back to the USA to bankrupt US manufacturers.
The US Farmer/Communist Chinese Labor Axis ain't a partnership made in Heaven.
The US Farmer/Communist Chinese Labor Axis ain't a partnership made in Heaven.
There are suddenly very few rants about: how big government should stay out of farming; how businesses and consumers should be free to make their own choices; how the government should not influence markets; how politicians should not use their position to buy votes; and most of all how the swamp in Washington should never never bail out businesses because they are too big to fail?
Who's going to be paying for this windfall to corn farmers? Livestock farmers, oil companies and their employees, and mostly the American consumers.
Who's going to be paying for this windfall to corn farmers? Livestock farmers, oil companies and their employees, and mostly the American consumers.
Rollie NE PA
Well-known Member
https://healthhabits.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/products-that-use-corn.pdf
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
Just rubber fuel lines. Worked fine for gasoline. Turned to mush when ethanol was added.The only common thing was they were all filled from the same fuel supply. I found out later that ethanol was banned from Aircraft and Marine units. Had to be a reason.
DoubleO7
Well-known Member
- Location
- Crystal River, FL
It is amazing how many blame ethanol fuel for problems in any engine built and sold in U.S.A. for the past 35 years.
10% ethanol fuel accounts for an estimated 97% of available gasoline in the U,S,A,
Yet no one in this latest debate on YT has blamed any manufacturers of producing gasoline consuming engines and fuel system components that fail when using 10% ethanol fuel.
i.e.why is gasoline fuel hose that is not compatible even sold here?
10% ethanol fuel accounts for an estimated 97% of available gasoline in the U,S,A,
Yet no one in this latest debate on YT has blamed any manufacturers of producing gasoline consuming engines and fuel system components that fail when using 10% ethanol fuel.
i.e.why is gasoline fuel hose that is not compatible even sold here?
CenTex Farmall
Well-known Member
I'll bet that was a fun phone call.....
Well you guys can do what you wish.....I will do what I wish. I have purchased a Zero turn mower, walk behind weed wacker, gas pressure washer and a boat in the last 2 years. Engines range from Mercury, Briggs and Honda. All of the owners manuals say they will run on E10 but ALL OF THEM recommend that no ethanol blends be used. The Merc was nearly $15,000. Now who do you think I'm going to trust. Some guy who stands to profit from ethanol or the folks at Merc who really would rather not do a warranty repair.
Rick
Rick
What? You gonna start calling names.....the typical abundant tactic? And you accuse people of being abundant? You sound just like a abundant snowflake!
You want people to pay you twice for everything? So you can continue to make the same poor judgment calls all the while lining your poskets? What have you done to earn anything from me? NOTHING! The only thing you do is get nasty with people while HIDING behind a keyboard. Great big tuff guy you are.
Unlike a farmer who gets the government to mandate fuel requirements so they can make a profit all the while using government subsidized crop insurance calling out someone who EARNED that government check! So you can sit there and run your mouth! What have you done except over produce crops driving the prices down to where you cry like a baby?
Go ahead if it makes you feel better and call names. You darn sure would not do that to my face!
Get over it. We the people don't really need you. We could import our food......oh wait, we do import a lot cause yer falling down on the job. Wanting to force people to buy ethanol. Another abundant idea just like forcing people to buy health insurance.........you should change yer name to SVobama!
Rick
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
We buy some stuff but its a small percentage of what we eat overall and I avoid things with a lot of sugar especially corn syrup.Plus we buy almost no prepared food just basic foods and wife prepares most things from scratch.Foods like Pizza will make me feel terrible for a couple days guess I'm not used to the crap that's in much of prepared food.We do eat a good amount of fish which we mostly buy,just plain fish no breading or anything like that on it.Wife cans and freezes vegetables and fruits we grow plus we have friends that also grow gardens with no chemicals and we trade back and forth during the year.For sweetners we have a guy that has a group of Honey Bee hives here that gives us Honey and I buy Sorghum Syrup from a Mennonite gentleman
that cooks down the syrup.Deer meat is our main meat which we process ourselves into over 10 different things from plain burger to deer 'hot dogs' made from pure deer meat with some seasonings like sage,I will not eat a hot dog from the grocery store.
that cooks down the syrup.Deer meat is our main meat which we process ourselves into over 10 different things from plain burger to deer 'hot dogs' made from pure deer meat with some seasonings like sage,I will not eat a hot dog from the grocery store.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
The local Federated auto/truck parts store has a large poster at the counter explaining why not to use ethanol laced gasoline and the harmful effects on different small and large engines.
Of course there those that do not have problems running E10 or 15. Well they must be getting a different blend than we are. Our E10 goes bad in a very short time my really small engines have needed work every couple of years. The carbs small passages do not like the mixed fuel and it's common knowledge at all the repair shops the industry for that matter.
I say this ever time this argument comes up. It is just fact here for ONE guy. This farm has over 35 gasoline engines, some air cooled some water cooled. Can not think of anything over 20 years old. We have engine problems ever now and then but attributed to E 10 just not there. There are folks here who say they tear down carburetors and see deposits , just guess we are lucky has not been a problem. Was making it farming before the ethanol requirement and will make it if it goes away. Produced over quite a bit of corn this year as always.
Look at where you live JM. I'll bet none of your small engines sit idle any amount of time. Where I live it's common for them to sit unused 6 months or more. Very common for a boat motor to get started the 1st of May or thereabouts and get put away after labor day weekend. Lawn mowers are not used until mid to late APR and are put away by the end of Sep. Likewise the snowmobile and ice augers may get 4 months on a good year although the last few years have been more like 4 days, walk behind snow blower the same. Here about the only thing with a small engine that gets run year round of lawn tractors is the owner has a snowblower on it in the winter. Ethanol laced gas doesn't start going bad until about 90 days without stabilizers and with about 6 months.
I myself have never had a problem with it.
I just don't like being forced to use something that no one can prove is beneficial to me personally. Right now I try to follow the law but every time I'm someplace that I can gas up with straight gas I do and I can legally run straight gas in my boat and small engines.
I do however have friends in both the "recreation" and small engine repair business. They all will tell you that love ethanol because it gives them a lot of work in the spring and fall. We have a lot of lakes around here and thus a lot of lake homes. Many are empty from mid Sep to mid APR with boats and lawn equipment sitting in the garage that because of sitting that long with ethanol are going to be in for repairs. Likewise the regular folks who know nothing about gas have snow machines/ice augers and lets not forget the generators for the ice fishing houses that have been sitting for 8 months.
Rick
1948CaseVAI
Well-known Member
I presume you mean people like me, and I can tell you that any regulation that is torn up and thrown in the trash is a good thing! This is not a new regulation, it is repeal of existing regulation. Government has NO business "regulating" our fuel or vehicles! The more regulations we can get thrown away over the next 6 years, the better. Personally I would love to see the EPA disbanded altogether and the employees sent to jail.
DoubleO7
Well-known Member
- Location
- Crystal River, FL
Sorry Bub, but I can't read minds so I do not know WTF engines you are talking about.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
You guys who claim that ethanol is the worst thing ever have been beating that same drum for so long now that you are just like the little boy who cried wolf. Ethanol has been on the market now for at least 40 years. It isn't going away. You've probably been using it for several years already without even knowing.
Actually there are more and more people each year to include people in the EPA working to make it go away. You see, they have now done the research to see how much pollution is created to make ethanol. That includes dust raised in field work, emissions form the farm equipment, pollution for the chemicals used and simple erosion. It exceeds per gallon what ethanol reduces in emissions. Heck even here in MN there is a concerted effort to drop the state ethanol mandate. So don't bet on it staying. Ain't going away today or tomorrow but it may go away.
Rick
Maybe, but have things like a gas (Robin Sabura) powered concrete mixer, concrete saw ect that sometimes sit for extended times. I will not say that if I pick up a chain saw that has not been used in a few months I might dump the gas just to put fresh gas in. I am like you do not care for the government forcing me to do anything. Here not hard to find no ethanol gas but it is more costly. We have 8 ford pickups in the fleet that are all gas and less than 10 years old and I have done several week studies and never can make the better fuel economy pencil out with the added cost.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
That is not a very good argument. All of those things you mention would still exist, even if the corn was NOT turned into ethanol. It is probably true that less corn would be grown if the ethanol market did not exist, but then the farmers would be growing some other crop which would also raise dust.
I have never had any trouble with it. How come the Old Amish Man I know in Lancaster County goes to Shetz and get's a can of gas out of the pump and goes home and dumps water in the can of gas ? Says it get's rid of the Ethanol ? I know that on the farm if we got water in the gas the old John Deere would quit and right now. Drain the carb and settlement boal and crank like h>>> trying to start the thing again. Still don't understand the Amish Man putting water in the gas can. Think I am nuts ? I must be but he sure does it. >>> Scovy
DoubleO7
Well-known Member
- Location
- Crystal River, FL
Yep!
The added water gets attracted to and attached to the ethanol and then the two settle to the bottom of his gas can.
Then he pours in whatever machine until he almost gets the settled out crap in the bottom.
Called phase separation.
Same thing can happen with a fuel system that is vented to atmosphere.
Or your gas cans that are not air tight.
Fuel systems on most machines that are not fuel injected are vented to atmosphere. And thus allow the fuel to absorb water from the air.
I always put a square of visqueen under the gas cap on anything with a vented cap when not running it.
Actually most guys I talk to claim there isn't anything else profitable to raise so they would have the choice of planting something just to plant or letting the land sit idle. I suspect that many would keep right on growing corn.
Is they let the land sit idle no one is going to raise dust. Heck when 41% of corn grown goes into ethanol what else will be raised. I think that if ethanol production were to stop that 41% of the farmers would eventually fold.
Rick
We, I at least, wasn't saying that. The problem tends to come with equipment that was made before ethanol blends became common, say 18-20 years ago, maybe a bit less in some places. It's not a huge issue with autos. It is an issue with small engines and 2 strokes. I was hearing about problems with alcohol in 2 stroke engines in the very early 80's from Jonsereds chief US tech guy. It's not new. You don't need to believe if you don't want, but I assure you that using my local fuel blends and leaving the fuel in a saw, generator, pressure washer, lawnmower, etc will result in problems over time. The older the item, the more problems you'll have. Absolutely guaranteed. Non-ethanol fuels will help avoid those issues. There is still normal wear and tear and age to deal with, but not the seemingly ethanol specific problems.
I don't think anyone said it's the worst thing ever. We;re just relating our experiences that happened when ethanol fuels were introduced into a tool and stopped when they were removed. I believe it's related to your local ethanol blends. Some are apparently worse than others. We didn't start seeing ethanol up here until maybe 15-20 years back. We sure did use dry gas though and knew you didn't use it in 2 stroke mix!
DoubleO7
Well-known Member
- Location
- Crystal River, FL
I believe it does cause problems in equipment that was not made when 10% became the norm. But manufacturers that simply refused to update their equipment when the majority of fuel being sold was 10% should take some blame also.
But we all have choices, run pure gas or take steps to convert components that will be adversely effected. Or change habits i.e. leaving fuel in a vented tank for months or not draining it out.
If pure gas was outlawed, what then? You make changes to your equipment or habits or beeatch about the cost of repairs every year in order to continue using the affected equipment?
P.S. for a tag trailer, is tongue weight part of the tow vehicle weight or trailer weight?
t isn't rocket science folks! There is no problem in using ethanol in equipment designed for it. BUT, for all else it is a bad, bad, problem! Even before we had ethanol laced fuel in the US, GM, Ford, Chrysler had different designed fuel components for cars exported to South American countries using ethanol laced fuels. People continuing this argument are either ignorant of the facts or just like to flap their jaws! The crap is bad for equivalent that was not designed for it...........that is the bottom line.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
Pretty sure that my 1940 Farmall H was not designed for ethanol, OR the 1971 Ford 1/2 ton that I used to own, but apparently no one bothered to tell either of those vehicles that ethanol was a no-no. I use ethanol blended fuel in everything I own. Never experienced any rotted fuel lines or anything else.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
2 stroke engines such as those in Yamaha dirt bikes? Or Stihl chainsaws? 4 stroke engines such as the 3 1/2 horsepower Briggs and Strattons? Or 8 horse Briggs? I guess all of those that I own or have owned should have just gone to the junk pile many years ago. Instead, they just kept right on running.
Then you probably have different blends where you live than we do. It would never occur to me to think you're lying or that you're some sort of freakin' retarded moron that wouldn't recognize that his engine isn't running right or notice fuel lines turning to mush. However, the opposite doesn't appear to be true. I assure you that people do have problems with 2 strokes and small engines that are directly related to the use of ethanol fuels. If older fuel is used or if the fuel is not drianed from the tank and run out of the carb, then the risk of problems increase. And that just with E10 gas. Anything more than that is reputed to be far worse for 2 strokes. If you don't believe me, perhaps you'll believe Stihl. Of course they may all be brain dead morons like me too I suppose.
Not all gasoline is the same. Knowing a few facts about your fuel can keep the engines in your STIHL equipment running strong.
What you need to know about Ethanol:
Much of the gasoline sold throughout the United States contains ethanol. [b:70195e9a12]The maximum ethanol content allowed by law for use in outdoor power equipment is limited to 10% (E10). [/b:70195e9a12]Make sure the gasoline you purchase for your outdoor power equipment contains no more than 10% ethanol. If the filling station pump is not labeled with the ethanol content, ask the station attendant what percentage of ethanol is in the gasoline.
Ethanol can dissolve varnish and gum deposits that have previously formed inside fuel storage cans or the equipment's engine. When these deposits become dislodged, they can mix with the fuel and [b:70195e9a12]plug small openings and filters within the fuel system.[/b:70195e9a12]
Ethanol attracts and mixes with moisture in the air, [b:70195e9a12]causing corrosion to metal components in the fuel system[/b:70195e9a12]. If enough water is absorbed, the ethanol and water will settle out of the gasoline blend and settle to the bottom of the equipment's tank. The layer of gasoline left floating on top has a lower octane level than the original ethanol gasoline blend, which can result in unstable engine operation, power loss and[b:70195e9a12] major engine failures.[/b:70195e9a12]
Since the fuel is often drawn from the bottom of the fuel tank, [b:70195e9a12]the engine is drawing in a mixture of ethanol and water with no gasoline and no lubricating oil. [/b:70195e9a12]This ethanol/water mix is thicker than gasoline and cannot easily pass through the fuel system. This can result in hard starting, unsafe high idle speeds, stalling, [b:70195e9a12]and can ultimately lead to engine damage or fuel system failure.
[/b:70195e9a12]
Guidelines for using E10 gasoline in STIHL power equipment:
If the proper precautions are taken, gasoline containing a 10% quantity of ethanol can safely be used in your STIHL products.
Use a minimum of 89 octane gasoline and always use fresh fuel. [b:70195e9a12]Only buy enough gasoline that you can easily use up within a two-month period[/b:70195e9a12] or use a specially formulated fuel mixture like STIHL MotoMix® Premixed Fuel. STIHL MotoMix® is a high-grade, high-octane, ethanol-free premixed fuel containing STIHL HP Ultra synthetic oil. It is a pure and stable fuel mixture that can be stored for up to two years in the original container and is ideal for machines that are used infrequently.
For air-cooled, two-cycle engines, use a quality mix oil that meets the engine manufacturer's recommendations. All STIHL oils are designed to readily mix with gasoline containing 10% ethanol.
Properly store your equipment. [b:70195e9a12]If your equipment is not going to be used for a couple of months, the remaining gasoline in the machine should be drained from the tank [/b:70195e9a12]and disposed of properly. [b:70195e9a12]To ensure that any remaining ethanol is removed from your equipment,[/b:70195e9a12] STIHL recommends adding a small amount of STIHL MotoMix® Premixed Fuel to the tank and running the engine for a few minutes to circulate the fuel through the carburetor.
Equipment should be serviced regularly by your STIHL Dealer. Items such as fuel filters, fuel lines, carburetor diaphragms and spark plugs should be checked and replaced if necessary as part of a normal engine tune-up.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
Ethanol blended fuel was in use in countries such as Mexico and Brazil LONG before it was introduced here in the U.S. The majority of the automobiles, trucks, tractors, etc. in use in those countries came from the U.S. Those same U.S. manufacturers knew that ethanol could compromise fuel lines and such that were designed for use with straight gasoline, so they developed components that WOULD hold up to both gasoline and ethanol, and THAT is what they used on ALL cars and trucks, no matter the country of destination. This means that the rubber fuel line on your car, lawnmower, tractor, etc. was compatible for use with ethanol LONG before ethanol even became available here in the U.S.
If the various fuel system components of YOUR particular machine are deteriorating, blame it on your fuel supplier. Blaming it on ethanol is just an excuse for supplying old, stale, already compromised gasoline that SHOULD have been destroyed.
Definitely need to do a 'fact check' on that one.
"THAT is what they used on ALL cars and trucks, no matter the country of destination."
Actually, this discussion could end if everyone would just accept that rustyfarmall can eat his field corn, whiz in his old/new equipment gas tank and it runs like a top! :twisted:
"THAT is what they used on ALL cars and trucks, no matter the country of destination."
Actually, this discussion could end if everyone would just accept that rustyfarmall can eat his field corn, whiz in his old/new equipment gas tank and it runs like a top! :twisted:
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
I worked as an auto mechanic before the introduction of ethanol. That is when I learned of the various fuel sytem components being compatible with ethanol. What more can I say? The proof that ethanol is NOT evil is right out in my sheds.
And I was working in a Husqvarna/Jonsereds dealership into the late 80's and as an auto mechanic before that. I've continued to work on small engines in my shop since then and on cars and trucks and my own farm equipment. The proof you have is that you haven't run into the problems others have, that's all the proof you have. Our proof is that we have had problems that were only caused by using the ethanol blends and stopped when we quit ethanol. Just because I've never been hit by lightning doesn't mean it can't happen. Just because you never had problems doesn't mean others haven't. I drove a Corvair, I never got CO poisoning. I drove Chevy PU with the gas tank right behind the seat, it never caught fire and killed me. I rode in a Pinto that was in an accident, it didn't burst into flame. Doesn't mean others didn't have it happen.
I guess those guys at Stihl are just stupid.
Fact check that. Brazil started using ethanol blends in 1976, they started playing with ethanol blends in the US in the late 1800's. Yes Brazil did mandate ethanol before we did but they didn't use it before we did.
Now I don't know you from Adam. I know I, me, not you, paid good money for my power equipment and boat. The manufacturers on all of it who have to honor warranties recommend not using ANY ethanol. That's the folks who built this stuff, again NOT YOU. In fact the only people who I know who advocate using it stand to make a profit from it. Care to explain that?
Heck the big reason I don't like putting it in my vehicles is because it's mandated. I'm in the group that says it should sink or swim on it's own.
Rick
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
I do NOT stand to make a profit from it. The only corn I raise is sweetcorn for our own consumption. Our local filling station has just 2 pumps. One is for E85, and the other is for E10. The E10 pump is nearly always busy enough that you have to wait your turn.
Sink or swim? Really? You're still waiting for ethanol blended fuels to prove themselves? Open your eyes. Ethanol has already proven itself as a viable fuel. Ethanol is here to stay.
Rich'sToys
Well-known Member
- Location
- Southern MN
I might be wrong on this, but it seems to me that some of the earlier attempts at alcohol fuels involved methanol, not ethanol, which is an entirely different ball game.
With that said, I've been following this thread since it started, and it's pretty obvious by now that no one is going to change anyone else's mind on this, so maybe it's time to just agree to disagree and give this whole thing a rest.
The sentence in bold says it all. You won't find a small engine or 2 stroke maker that says don't use non-ethanol (regular pure gasoline) but they all say you can use ethanol IF you take these precautions and IF you do this and IF you do that and IF you never, ever exceed 10% Ethanol fuels. Ethanol, 10%, works fine a lot of the time. When it doesn't, then it's a pain in the keester. And that's the point we're trying to make. Do what works for you, but don't tell us were stupid or lying when it's caused problems for us!
DoubleO7
Well-known Member
- Location
- Crystal River, FL
And there is the gist of the problem with ethanol.
Pure gasoline has specific use requirements.
And ethanol has specific use requirements.
The ones with the problems are the ones hell bent on not changing how they use ethanol laced gasoline.
Go ahead and do as you have always done when you were running pure gas.
But if you are too stubborn to make changes, be prepared to pay for the consequences.
It is up to you.
P.S. this is not aimed at Bretyou
ell, it is a pain in the patootie to have to drain the tank and carb every time I use an infrequently used piece of equipment. Much like not using antifreeze and needing to drain block/radiator. Sure it can be done, but at a price. Not to mention that the drained tank is now likely to rust in old equipment. Some of these big time defenders of this 'junk' gas need to come replace some of my gas tanks, clean all the snot out of the carbs, etc. Even my 540 gallon tank and pump are useless now!
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
I'm done arguing. The next time this issue comes up for discussion, and it will, I will just ignore it.
Rich'sToys
Well-known Member
- Location
- Southern MN
Oh, for God's sake!!!
ENOUGH ALREADY!!!
No i mean give the people a choice at the pump. See if they can sell enough ethanol laced gas to make it worthwhile to produce. Can't really say it's successful when the government forces people to buy it now can you?
Here in MN all fuel except for collector vehicles, sleds, boats and small engines we are supposed to run minimum 10%. Place I buy most of my gas at has 2 pumps (double units serving out of both sides counted as 2 pumps) that deliver ethanol free gas and another dedicated to diesel. All the other pumps are 10%. No one buys E85 here except the tree huggers who are really trying to make a statement and government vehicles. Imagine, driving 20-30 miles out of your way to buy E85. Kinda funny but 5 small towns, with a total of 7 convenience stores and not one can sell enough E85 to justify having a pump. Kinda funny but you'd be surprised at the number of people who buy the ethanol free gas to run in modern vehicles.
Rick
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