- Thread starter Bob
- Start date
Donald Lehman
Well-known Member
The only thing Farm Bureau was ever concerned with in NY while I was farming was apples. Didn't give a rat's butt about any of the rest of us.
DoubleO7
Well-known Member
- Location
- Crystal River, FL
Well it is California after all.
Silicon Valley is there.
I wonder how much money it took from SV companies to get CA Farm Bureau to come out on their side.
You're right about it being California but it doesn't seem to change anything - people just complain, keep electing people with the same philosophy and keep complaining about the results. I'm in New York and its the same situation. At least in NY companies move when this stuff keeps happening and often so do the people.
Gary Mitchell
Well-known Member
They're, (fb), apparently a branch of the gop here in Missouri. gm
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
That's one good thing about getting old news like that is for someone else to worry about.If I never bought another tractor or piece of equipment I'd still have 3X as much as I'll ever
need.
need.
Wouldn?t doubt it. The way it?s sounds, at least from talking to guys in my area, most aren?t even overly concerned with repairs on new stuff either. Seems what they are all getting tired of is blowing money on DEF and servicing diesel particulate filters. Start throwing that into your service budget and things start to get really expensive. Not to mention the fact that when tier 4 engines go into regen mode to clean the system they turn into complete and utter dogs so there is lost time in the field to. That has probably been, at least at the start, the biggest driver of increasing prices on the late model mechanical and early fuel injected equipment. Dad works with a a couple over the road heavy haul outfits with his business and from what they have said the trucking industry is getting the same way. Late model pre emission big rigs are bringing astronomical prices as well.
John Phipps had an interesting take on this as it relates to trade in one of his commentaries on US Farm Report. It's his opinion,not mine,but it's something to think about.
He said we get upset because the Chinese make US companies give up proprietary technology as a condition of building a factory in their country. These companies do it because there's more profit in building things there than they loose in the value of giving up that technology. Then we turn right around after saying they shouldn't have to give up that proprietary technology as a cost of doing business and say that they should have to give it up as a cost of doing business with us. We must be making money by using their proprietary technology or we wouldn't be doing business with them.
He said we get upset because the Chinese make US companies give up proprietary technology as a condition of building a factory in their country. These companies do it because there's more profit in building things there than they loose in the value of giving up that technology. Then we turn right around after saying they shouldn't have to give up that proprietary technology as a cost of doing business and say that they should have to give it up as a cost of doing business with us. We must be making money by using their proprietary technology or we wouldn't be doing business with them.
Just another key in the planned obsolescence of equipment. They have already done that with big trucks. I had a 2002 Volvo 660 and was told I would have to buy a new one in 2012 because they had stopped supporting the computer software. Even before that certain dealers couldn't service it because the computers wouldn't work with each other.
I would hate to try to debug an equipment problem after a customer has modified the software. It is bad enough in controlled environments like a factory where everyone is on the same team. It works best to request changes to the software engineer and let them figure out how to do it. Cowboy changes usually cause other problems or machine crashes and create more downtime than they save.
It could take days for a technician to figure out what a customer has changed especially if the customer did a poor job of documenting the changes or tried to hide them. The least cost options for the customer might be to either reload the original software at the customers expense and send it back too the customer to run for a while, or decline to service the machine.
It could take days for a technician to figure out what a customer has changed especially if the customer did a poor job of documenting the changes or tried to hide them. The least cost options for the customer might be to either reload the original software at the customers expense and send it back too the customer to run for a while, or decline to service the machine.
Doesn?t hurt my feelings one bit . Worked at truck shop for awhile doing fleet maintenance cost 7000$ to fix a left turn signal because the lcm went bad we jumped it off the rear off the tractor to get power so the signal would work on the front . It had to go to kenworth to get fixed and that was a simple fix . I don?t really think bubba is qualified to work on most of this stuff except maintenance anyway
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
One question I had for the factory and never got an answer. What happens if one of these computer controlled gensets. Goes down and a factory tech is needed to correct it. But the tech is three hours away. Who is going to face the lawyers. If someone dies. Because no one on site had the codes to repair the system. You could have heard a pin drop.
Almost all business operates this way, why is there a big stink about it with this one. Every single auto manufacturer holds onto "proprietary" technology and parts. It's up to aftermarket companies to reverse engineer or come up with some other way to work around it. The difference might be demand, if enough people want an alternative then someone will find a way.
Hauling manure this afternoon. Boredom is overtaking me and I got to thinking about this whole obsolescence thing just because the computer system is obsolete. Do I think Deere will come up with a kit to change this stuff to mechanical systems? No,not on your life.
When my son bought out the engine machine shop where he worked two years ago,he faced what he thought was two choices with the engine dyno. It was so old that it ran on floppy discs. They had told them years ago that if anything happened to it,it was dead in the water,they couldn't fix it. He thought he'd either have to buy a new one or move that one and hope it still worked when they hooked it back up. The manufacturer gave him a third choice. He ended up buying it,moving it and having company technicians recondition it after it was in the new shop. They removed the computer,all the wiring and sensors and replaced them with all new state of the art stuff. The replaced the brake too,now they can dyno 2500 hp instead of 1500 and it will even text message the results to the owner. It does stuff that wasn't even a dream when that machine was built.
The point is,the tractors won't be obsolete,only the computer and electronics will be. Who knows what's possible? By 2025,they might be able to turn a 2015 8R series in to an autonomous vehicle by replacing the sensors,wiring harness and computer and adding a few solenoids and motors. Provided they haven't been "farmerized". We just don't know yet. I don't think they'll melt them down.
When my son bought out the engine machine shop where he worked two years ago,he faced what he thought was two choices with the engine dyno. It was so old that it ran on floppy discs. They had told them years ago that if anything happened to it,it was dead in the water,they couldn't fix it. He thought he'd either have to buy a new one or move that one and hope it still worked when they hooked it back up. The manufacturer gave him a third choice. He ended up buying it,moving it and having company technicians recondition it after it was in the new shop. They removed the computer,all the wiring and sensors and replaced them with all new state of the art stuff. The replaced the brake too,now they can dyno 2500 hp instead of 1500 and it will even text message the results to the owner. It does stuff that wasn't even a dream when that machine was built.
The point is,the tractors won't be obsolete,only the computer and electronics will be. Who knows what's possible? By 2025,they might be able to turn a 2015 8R series in to an autonomous vehicle by replacing the sensors,wiring harness and computer and adding a few solenoids and motors. Provided they haven't been "farmerized". We just don't know yet. I don't think they'll melt them down.
This story misses the point. It's not the owners of the machinery that Deere et al, are intersting in freezing out so much as the independent repair shops. Like the one in which I work.
Truth is, they've tricked us into paying for something they won't let us own, the software, and the means to access, store or transmit the software.
The big 3 tried this same tactit. Had the EPA not mandated that they have to put that IBD (on board diagnostics) port under your steering wheel so one can access and read the diagnostics stored in the ECM, your every "Check Engine" light would only be solved by a trip to your loca dealership who could charge what the want. Instead, you can buy your own IBD reader or go to an independent garage, who competes with another independent down the street, to dianose your car.
What these equipment dealers are doing is exactly that, setting you up for overcharging you for service.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Looking at the history of JD I'd say its far more likely that Deere designed them to shut down at some point and offer the owners some token amount to trade for a new JD.
Moonlite37
Well-known Member
In our Congressional District. The Farm Bureau endorsed a Candidate who was not a farmer and had never been a member of Farm Bureau before the filing closed. The opponent was a farmer and a farm Bureau member. Of course the one with Farm Bureau endorsement won. Also the congressman did not vote for any of the measures that would have provided funding for the new bridge on the Mississippi river which now bears his name.
Really? My local shop can read the codes on my car's computer and buy a reconditioned ECM to replace the computer and not once get Ford Motor Company involved.
John Deere is preventing the reverse engineering by laying claim to the software as it interacts with the engine. You can't use an aftermarket ECM on a John Deere tractor or combine because they officially
still own the technology.
John Deere is preventing the reverse engineering by laying claim to the software as it interacts with the engine. You can't use an aftermarket ECM on a John Deere tractor or combine because they officially
still own the technology.
Bingo, ss55.
Premise: I follow this issue only superficially and did not read most of the posted article.
That said, as one who in past lives designed both EC hardware and software for a major US auto manufacturer, and practiced patent law, I can understand why JD must maintain control of their intellectual property.
Dean
Premise: I follow this issue only superficially and did not read most of the posted article.
That said, as one who in past lives designed both EC hardware and software for a major US auto manufacturer, and practiced patent law, I can understand why JD must maintain control of their intellectual property.
Dean
I don't think so. I think at some point,changing an 8R to an autonomous tractor might be as common place as turning the old 4010 in to a loader tractor after you bought a new 4430. Some of you are too cynical and don't dream big enough.
Not saying that I'm on track with the autonomous thing,but they'll have new updates and upgrades that'll make these "old" tractors do all the things that the new ones of the future can do and then some. Good chance they'll even be "specialty" uses for them. When it comes to the future with computers and electronics,the sky's the limit.
Not saying that I'm on track with the autonomous thing,but they'll have new updates and upgrades that'll make these "old" tractors do all the things that the new ones of the future can do and then some. Good chance they'll even be "specialty" uses for them. When it comes to the future with computers and electronics,the sky's the limit.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
If they do I'm sure they will charge close to what a new tractor costs if past history means anything.
wilson ind
Well-known Member
What do you have against Cowboys???
flying belgian
Well-known Member
"What these equipment dealers are doing is exactly that, setting you up for overcharging you for service". My dealer has been overcharging me for service for forty years.
flying belgian
Well-known Member
1) McCormick-Deering
2) IHC
3) Farmall
4) Bull
5) JI Case
6) Case-International
7) Case-IH
8) New Holland
9) Ford New Holland
10) Fiat
11) CNH
That's eleven and I bet I missed some.
2) IHC
3) Farmall
4) Bull
5) JI Case
6) Case-International
7) Case-IH
8) New Holland
9) Ford New Holland
10) Fiat
11) CNH
That's eleven and I bet I missed some.
flying belgian
Well-known Member
I saw this coming when they wouldn't let me plant my beans out of the bin.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Why do you keep buying from them? The best way to get any company to change is to stop buying what they sell.
Robert Major
Well-known Member
I'm currently working on a MF 6200 series that has cooling system problems stopping it running as the timing case is corroded out and dumping all the coolant in the oil pan. The next problem after that is mice ate the wiring and shorted out the control box for the electronic joystick / spools for the loader. I'm kinda investigating some way of taking that control box out and making that joystick work the system without the magic box thats a couple thousand $ plus wiring looms.
Massey want over $8000 to replace all this electronic junk including shop time. I'm being told putting a regular joystick and spool block on that loaders going to be expensive, and knock value off the tractor at the other end as it's not going to be original when the guy sells it.
My other option is buy parts from Massey Agco/ try repairing the wiring and do the job at a 3rd of their shop rate and hope the thing works after. They won't help other than selling parts, we're on our own They already told us they won't even look at it after I work on the electrical system. This is a tractor that cost the guy $50.000 used he's still paying finance on he cant use it at the moment !.
Regards Robert
Massey want over $8000 to replace all this electronic junk including shop time. I'm being told putting a regular joystick and spool block on that loaders going to be expensive, and knock value off the tractor at the other end as it's not going to be original when the guy sells it.
My other option is buy parts from Massey Agco/ try repairing the wiring and do the job at a 3rd of their shop rate and hope the thing works after. They won't help other than selling parts, we're on our own They already told us they won't even look at it after I work on the electrical system. This is a tractor that cost the guy $50.000 used he's still paying finance on he cant use it at the moment !.
Regards Robert
This is not the only issue that the Farm Bureau has lost touch with it's members. I dropped them several years ago, inflated rates, poor service, and horrible representation. There was a time that the Farm Bureau organization meant something. That has long ended, too many greased palms, and overpaid executives.
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