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Red Flag Law

In my opinion the Gov't being able to confiscate a person's property of any kind without Due Process is not a good idea especially since they did it only on one person's word.That law
can and will be abused by the Gov't.
 
I agree, TF. Very bad practice.

I doubt it will hold up if it goes to federal court.

Of course, to avoid such, the "authorities" will likely drop the charges if it appears that the victim plans to do so.

Dean
 
I can see how that law could be misused terribly however in the case in the link you can see in the picture that guy was nuts and the law did what was intended.
 
Stephen, I agree totally with the confiscation part of the story but your comment on the guy being nuts reminds me that we all too often pass judgement without thinking past what you see. Does he look like you or the guys you hang out with? Probably not, but I suspect if 100 of the YT folk here showed you a face photo, you'd likely think that 30% of us were crazy ...... when in actual fact it's probably only 25%.
 
That's interesting, they are investing each weapon, one by one. First, only the situation makes a firearm a weapon. Anything can become a weapon, somebody posted awhile ago even a cat turd can be a weapon. Second, how does one invest a firearm? The red flag law worries me greatly for our rights.
 
Now that's funny!!


What's that old saying? Everybody's crazy, except me and you, and I ain't too sure about you. . .
 
Who keeps"Highly Explosive Materials" in their home for ANY good reason? A barn, a shed, maybe. In your home? I think they did the right thing, if ithe facts in this article are correct.
 
You live in Canada right where there is no Constitution and only rights are what the Gov't gives you? In the USA we have guaranteed rights and the Gov't is held by those constraints.
Republic (USA) vs Democracy (Canada)
 
A lot will depend on how the investigation goes and what was found.

What were the "high explosives"? Was he making bombs or reloading?

It's one of those no win situations for the cops...

If there is not enough evidence against him, "his rights are being violated".

If he follows up with a threat, "why wasn't something done".
 
He made the threat against the health care worker, that in itself would require an investigation. Then the health care worker was probably there because of questions about his mental state from previous complaints. And having that much firepower and his mental state he probably was getting ready to do a mass killing so getting him taken care of probably saved possibly thousand of lives. Would you have rather of him being let have all that firepower to blow up a city block and kill hay many dozens of people. If they could have done that in a lot of places you would not of ever had those mass school shootings. And yes I do own guns, a 20 guage shotgun that has not been shot for 30 years and 2 22 rifels that I use when needed.
 
I am assuming that this was a home healthcare worker visit to the home.
Something set him off to make some sort of threat.
Maybe the healthcare worker could see the numerous weapons and reloading supplies in plain sight.
He will go thru a mental health evaluation.
They will investigate the weapons to see if any have been stolen.
Or used in a crime.

Some of you are worried about abuse of this law that requires others to sign off on it's execution by LEO.

You will really be worried about the Civil asset forfeiture laws.
It allows police to seize — and then keep or sell — any property [u:11a2bb27c7]they allege[/u:11a2bb27c7] is involved in a crime. Owners need not ever be arrested or convicted of a crime for their cash, cars, or even real estate to be taken away permanently by the government.
 
Greg: So just where would you keep gun powder to reload with in the back tree stump? I would keep it with the rest of the equipment for reloading. Sure would not be where moisture can get to it.
I see a lot of misinformation going around with personal violations coming back to bite the leo's.
Now for the agree completely with the confiscation. So if you threaten to run somebody down they should come confiscate your vehicles including all your old tractors. After all they could be a weapon too. Along with the lamp and trophy from bowling.
So now just how far do you carry such stupidity.
Remember the Ruby Ridge case with shooting the boy running away from the law and the wife holding a baby in her arms. Both shot dead. Not much of a threat when doing either.
 

Go back and look at the build-up to this and the whole history, and it will seem even worse to you. Under O'Bongo care, health care workers were given special powers to report any "patient" who admits to having firearms at their home if that worker "feels" that the patient would ever be a threat to anyone for any reason. For a short time the doctors were even required to question you about firearms during each and every office visit, but enough of us told our doctors to eat feces and die that the rule was reversed. Anyway, that is huge latitude and no one, not doctors, curses, cops, or judges, should have that much power. That was the route that the traitorous left in this country used to try to get your lawful guns away from you.

Then, after some kerfluffle around the school shooting case in Florida, where it was admitted that the local Sheriff had been made aware of the perpetrator in advance, some traitorous dimwit came up with the concept of this "red flag law."

It should be patently illegal and unconstitutional, but we have not had a constitutional government in a long time.

In the meantime remember that your doctor, nurse, or what-have-you is NOT your friend!
 
Smokeless gunpowder is NOT an explosive, it is a propellant it has to do with the flame front travel. Black powder is considered an explosive because the burn rate does exede that limit.But it is scarier to the general public, who think only what the TV tells them, to call them explosives.
 
"You will really be worried about the Civil asset forfeiture laws."

Indeed, I am. Such laws have been badly abused by cops in order to more easily acquire toys, etc.

Dean
 
"It should be patently illegal and unconstitutional, but we have not had a
constitutional government in a long time."

Who do you think will pay to challenge the Red Flag Law and take it to all way
to the supreme court?
 
(quoted from post at 13:03:53 08/18/18) "It should be patently illegal and unconstitutional, but we have not had a
constitutional government in a long time."

Who do you think will pay to challenge the Red Flag Law and take it to all way
to the supreme court?
Click to expand...

It will take someone with a big bucket load of gold getting "red flagged".
 
There is a lot to be said for appearance. They look like they could be brothers.
a277146.jpg
 
Not sure who is replying to whom here, but I live in Illinois, not Canada. When I was a kid, my oldest brother had reloading supplies and equipment in the bedroom. I can't say I agreed with that either. I don't know if gun powder is a "high explosive" or not, but I sure wouldn't want it in my bedroom, regardless. I don't know enough about explosives to know which are save, and which are not, but the word "EXPLOSIVE" itself doesn't bring up many "safe" scenarios. What I stated was an opinion based on the facts stated, although I must admit I may not be knowledgeable enough about the subject to have a true opinion. I do know however if this guy lived next door to me or a family member, I would welcome the "Red Flag" law. If I was loony enough to threaten to run you down with my car, then yes, maybe someone should come and take my car, or would you rather they wait until I actually run you down. It seems that decades ago people could get mad, lose their temper and threaten someone without meaning it. These days, it's different. A lot of people carry out these threats. Or maybe it just seems that way because we hear so much more "bad" about the world, than we hear about the "good. Again, these are all just my opinions.
 
The rights granted in the Second Amendment, like those of the rest of the Bill of Rights, are not unlimited. If your religion involves human sacrifice, you're not going to be allowed to practice it. Likewise, if you exhibit behavior that leads society to believe you're a threat to the public, you should expect your right to bear arms to be curtailed.

It seems to me the same folks who claim law enforcement and mental health professional haven't done enough to stop mass shootings are the same people who have a problem with red flag laws. You can't have it both ways. If red flag laws are unconstitutional, you can't hold law enforcement or public health officials responsible for not being proactive enough when dealing with potentially dangerous individuals.

Sooner or later, someone with a sympathetic case will challenge a red flag law and get it all the way to SCOTUS. But it isn't going to be this guy.
 
(quoted from post at 13:51:02 08/18/18) Do you think the ACLU would take this to the supreme court?
Click to expand...

I do not think any group will touch it because if they do, their bankroll will dwindle when they are blamed for supporting potential mass murderers.
 
(quoted from post at 13:53:41 08/18/18) That I DO NOT believe.
Click to expand...

You might want to look into it.
It happens all the time.
Cops can seize whatever they think might be ill-gotten gains.
Be it assets or cash.
And you must prove to the court that you did not obtain it via any sort of criminal activity.
Of course doing that will cost you tens of thousands before the court will even render a decision either way.
 
So let me get this straight.....

You'd be willing to forcibly go into someone's home and remove their personal property based solely on how they look??

Now let's add that this man in some way threatened a healthcare worker.
What's the backstory??
What happened that made him say what he did?
...And just [b:31c785c749]what DID[/b:31c785c749] he say??

If the man said something like he should bend her over his knee and spank her, that could/would be considered by some to be a threat.

Does the man have any history of mental illness? Does he have any history of violence? Has he threatened others before?

We ALL say things now and then that we later regret. [b:31c785c749]ALL OF US!![/b:31c785c749] We may even say something that to "US" is ok, but to someone from another region or from another country, the words/phrases may have completely different meanings.

OK, so he has a lot of guns. Some people have lots of knives. Some have dolls, or rolling pins, or hammers, or barbed wire. Some people even collect nooses. If we don't do anything wrong, then we have CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS to be able to keep our belongings safe in our own home. This guy also has the right to carry firearms to shows and such, provided he follows all laws and ordinances.

I'll openly admit that I have firearms. Not saying how many or what, but can assure you it's nowhere near the size of the collection in the article. Now, it would seem that if I so much as get anyone upset with me, that I could be looking at the potential result of having LEO knocking down my door and taking my property. Do I have any kinds of records? Have I shown aggressiveness? Nope. But believe you me, if anyone were to come here and try to bust in, there might well be another Ruby Ridge!! I'm a peaceful person and VERY strongly follow laws. The local Sheriff's Dept has many times spoken highly of us. We don't bother anyone and we don't cause any trouble. So there is NO REASON for anyone to come into our home. Just the act of doing so because one person claims something....that in itself could cause a small war.

Am I making myself clear???
 
As for his mug shot. Mug shots are never pretty. They arrested him as he was leaving his home. Therefore they never gave him the chance to "pretty up" for pictures. Second what exactly did he saybetteoth these things we will never know. The reality is this will only serve to discourage more people from seeking mental help. Thus endangering the public more. This us one more example of how broken our system is. I have a very good friend. Served in Iraq and was discharged honorably. But because he had "head trama" he is prohibited from owning firearms. Any one who ever played H.S. sports has probably has head trama. My friends only fault was that it happened in the service and therefore better documented. The bigger problem is that someone can have their rights stripped with no trial and no oppertunity to plead their own case.


Sod Buster
 
Unlikely, George.

If it was purely a Fourth amendment case, they probably would but since it involves guns, they will ignore it.

Dean
 

How many of you responders to the original post actually took the time to read the law to see what process has to be followed before guns can be seized, in order to be able to make an informed response???
 
Everything the ACLU if for, I'm against. I really don't think they will. ACLU leans to far left to take this on.
 
Is it like the process for a restraining order? Spouse, or significant other gets mad lies to police about how she fears for her life police get involved man looses his rights and a week later the're back together. Just saying. These laws are not only a violation of the constitution for all the fore mentioned reasons. They are also the worst joke ever envisioned. They do little if any to reduce crime, yet they strip a person of his rights with out even the oppertunity to plead his case. Now if he's a weathly man he can get a lawyer and plead his case but only AFTER he's been stripped if his rights and presumed guiltly. Child services is the same thing.

That being said it should be noted that I have little if any respect for mental health workers. After what put they my wife through as a child and what they pulled on me. For an example in school they would see you are having a bad day. Go out of their way to antagonize you then when you got p*ssed and said something. "That's a threat" I can't help but to wonder if thats what they did to the guy in the news article. My wife's parents divorced when she was young. The social workers would use my wife to get information on her parents, promised her it was a secret. When the wife got home her parent(s) would beat her. They "magically" found out everything, word for word what she had told the social worker. And while I should not judge an entire profession based on the actions of a few it seems to be the rule rather then the exception.

Combine this with the fact that many healthcare workers are union and unions are by a wide majority abundant and anti-gun.

I'll end this with one more story. Some one I knew was down on his luck. He made a off hand comment about suicide to a social worker. The "expert" had him commited which made his bad situation ten times worse. Realy makes a person want to "open up" doesn't ??

Sod Buster
 
Not to put too fine a point on it, but smokeless powder and black powder substitutes are not "high explosives". They are classified as propellants. Smokeless powder probably has less chance of causing a fire or explosion than the battery in your computer. As a matter of fact there are more fires caused by computer/phone batteries. Don't know of single incident that has ever been caused by smokeless powder. So you may put your mind at ease on that count.

Not saying the guy didn't do something wrong, but you can bet your bottom dollar whoever wrote that article put all of the sensationalism in it he could think of.
 
Agreed. They won't touch it. Last I knew the ACLU has a blank space on their wall for the Second Amendment while posting the other nine.

The "Safe-Act" in NY is even worse than your Red Flag law.
 
Doesn't everyone carry a gun on their tractor?

If this post is out of line, why doesn't YT make it go POOF????
 
Anything in the press anymore is suspect. As for "Highly explosive materials", black powder, tanerite, smokeless powder, pyrodex.... Any one who has firearms and reloads has some of that in their home. Would you sit in the barn to reload? My house has a more hospitable environment.
 
One in seven people suffer from some sort of serious mental condition. Now take a moment and think about your six closest friends. Are they normal? Do any of them give you pause? If not, you're it!
 
Well Farmer, last time I heard we did have a constitution, I think Mr. Donald said we didn't but he's hardly a reliable source of information. Actually, neither Canada or the USA make the Top Ten Best Places To Live List believe it or not. Meanwhile, I'll stay put where I am. As much respect as I have for my southern neighbors, I feel a bit safer up here to be honest. Mind you, this could all be fake news .....
Poke here for enlightenment ......
 
I don't live in an inner city and I live in a concealed carry state they are the ones with the low crime rates.Plus I do carry too just in case someone thinks I'd be a easy target.
 
Sounds like some research is in order, Leroy.

There's plenty of evidence out there. All you need to do is look a bit.

Dean
 
Bingo, Double07.

You are guilty until you prove yourself innocent. That, of course, is just about impossible to do.

Dean
 
Jesus had a striking similarity to both of the individuals above. I suppose he might have been a bit crazy then?
 

"Yes, Stonerock, I am now wondering why I continue to open his
posts."

Yes showcrop, I'm now wondering why you continue to open my
posts and take the time to complain about them. My posts aren't
mandatory reading or mandatory to complain about unless you just
like to witch.
 
I read the article and the law and the police were dead wrong. Accusations don't mean squat. If someone is in your house and you tell them to get out or you will throw them out they can claim a threat and the homeowner loses all their constitutional rights. Who in their right mind would think that is legal?

I have a bunch of weapons and "explosives" in my house too. All kinds of kitchen knives, some pocket knives, some draino, miracle grow, a bag of fertilizer, and many others. There's even some salt peter left from curing hams. When it comes right down to it everyone is guilty of the same thing.
 
Years ago there was a saying to describe something dangerous as "That's like giving a monkey a loaded gun!". Now-a-days giving a monkey a loaded gun seems to be the perfectly acceptable thing to do.
 
(quoted from post at 13:53:41 08/18/18) Did you see a picture of the guy? Looks to me like the cops did a good thing taking his guns.
Click to expand...


Not fer nuthin' guy, but lets say it's you and you just got served with a search warrant and arrested. All we have is allegations of his making a non-defined threat of some sort, which may have been nothing to start with. According to the report, a great deal personal property has been confiscated and may never be returned to you. Just how ------ off and aggravated do you think you'd look in your mug shot?
 
(quoted from post at 20:05:14 08/18/18) Not to put too fine a point on it, but smokeless powder and black powder substitutes are not "high explosives". They are classified as propellants. Smokeless powder probably has less chance of causing a fire or explosion than the battery in your computer. As a matter of fact there are more fires caused by computer/phone batteries. Don't know of single incident that has ever been caused by smokeless powder. So you may put your mind at ease on that count.

Not saying the guy didn't do something wrong, but you can bet your bottom dollar whoever wrote that article put all of the sensationalism in it he could think of.
Click to expand...

Don. "hundreds or weapons" and "high explosives" could have been a few guns, some ammo, bullets, primers and powder to the ignorant. People seem to forget we're taking this story from the same press that let Jesse Jackson get away with saying, "You can buy a rocket launcher at a gun store."!
 
(quoted from post at 09:36:39 08/18/18) Indiana is one of 13 states with Red Flag Law. This was a big story on local news last night.
Red Flag
Click to expand...

Let me give you a LEO (retired) view on this. There ARE nuts out there, some of them have access to guns, knives, gasoline, chemicals, etc. There are also a lot of ninnies out there that are scared to death of everything under the sun. I had a co-worker shot in the belly with a 30-06 rifle at about 10 feet by one of the nuts our wonderful mental health system turned loose and never told LE anything about. HIPPA don'tcha know. There is a time and place for "Red Flag" type laws to be used, but there has to be a system in place to use it properly and a system in place for the accused to get a fair and impartial hearing to get his property back if he's been falsely accused. At this point, those systems are muddled up with political rhetoric and game playing, sensationalized news reports, social media driven fear and drama queen type hysteria and a good deal of gov't over reach in some cases. This poor guy may be a victim of a well intentioned law that's been misused or of an accusation that is overblown or incorrect, or he may be a nut that could have done something terrible. All you have is a news story, a picture of the guy when he obviously wasn't at his best and whole lot of hyperbole and assumption by the commenters here. In short, we know just about zilch as far as what actually happened!

This is why people need to take a step back and consider a bit more than just what the news tells you think about EVERYTHING under the sun these days.
 
(quoted from post at 07:45:47 08/19/18)
Let me give you a LEO (retired) view on this. There ARE nuts out there, some of them have access to guns, knives, gasoline, chemicals, etc. There are also a lot of ninnies out there that are scared to death of everything under the sun. I had a co-worker shot in the belly with a 30-06 rifle at about 10 feet by one of the nuts our wonderful mental health system turned loose and never told LE anything about. HIPPA don'tcha know. There is a time and place for "Red Flag" type laws to be used, but there has to be a system in place to use it properly and a system in place for the accused to get a fair and impartial hearing to get his property back if he's been falsely accused. At this point, those systems are muddled up with political rhetoric and game playing, sensationalized news reports, social media driven fear and drama queen type hysteria and a good deal of gov't over reach in some cases. This poor guy may be a victim of a well intentioned law that's been misused or of an accusation that is overblown or incorrect, or he may be a nut that could have done something terrible. All you have is a news story, a picture of the guy when he obviously wasn't at his best and whole lot of hyperbole and assumption by the commenters here. In short, we know just about zilch as far as what actually happened!

This is why people need to take a step back and consider a bit more than just what the news tells you think about EVERYTHING under the sun these days.
Click to expand...

Yessir, well said!!
 
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