(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

8/7/42 US Marines land on Guadalcanal

Ultradog MN

Ultradog MN

Well-known Member
Location
Twin Cities
This is the beginning of the US offensive in the Pacific war. For months the the results will hang in the balance. At last the US and its allies will prevail and begin the greater offensive that will carry them all the way to Japan.
Give a thought today to those who fought and died there.
Read about it here
 
That was a very wise decision in the caliber selection for that weapon. I had a high school teacher that ran one in the USMC. Same round as the 1911 Colt. I think you had to be at least a buck sarge to get issued.
 
The man who gave me my first job in the summer of 1965 was a Marine Guadalcanal veteran.

Dean
 
I am not a gun enthusiast at all. But those two - the Thompson, the 1911, plus the BAR I would love to have. I guess because I grew up watching "Guadalcanal Diary" and all the other WWII movies.
 
If you want more, two excellent books are "Neptune's Inferno" by John Hornfisher and History of the US Navy in WWII: Guadalcanal" by Samual Elliot Morrison. Keep in mind the "History of the US Navy in WWII" was a 15 volume work, all are good, but only one is about Guadalcanal.
 
Man, the list of brave souls who gave their life for freedom seems endless, so much of it is documented and nowadays especially, available at your fingertips through your keyboard. Here I go off-topic at least a bit but when I was a kid in grade 1 in the early 50's, I remember a neighbor kid collecting Korean War collector cards, I suspect bubble gum came with the pack too. I think most of the pics on the cards were artist drawings but showed a variety of conflict action and a description on the back.

I searched a bit with Google just now and came up with this website for a card collector guy who has all sorts for sale in various conditions, including almost full sets. A lot of the cards you can "view" by clicking on the right-side box in the card list.
Korean War Collector Cards website .....
 
If you study the Guadalcanal campaign from start to finish you will only have more respect for the men who fought there. It was a haphazard operation thrown together in reaction to the Japanese building an airfield there. For those who haven't looked into it that airfield, if completed, posed a significant threat to the supply lines to Australia. When they discovered that the Japanese were build an airfield they had no option but to attack. The Marines lacked adequate raining at that time and we had zero experience in waterborne operations. Lot of the heavy artillery and the Seabees heavy equipment never got off loaded because no one thought about how to load the ships. Much of that stuff was under tons of other supplies that were not as desperately needed. That left the Marines without the equipment needed and lacking a bunch of supplies when the Navy sailed off and left them without support.

Rick
 
Had an uncle that was there. His first month in the fleet. Said it was one big cluster. Watched the Navy sail off with most of their
supplies.Were told they would take the island in a week. Some landed on the wrong part of the beach. Some landed with only the ammo
they were carrying. They came very close to losing that battle.
 
They actually did know how to load the ships. They were supposed to be 're-loaded' into what is called a 'combat load' in New Zealand but due to time constraints and
friction with the dock workers there most of it didn't get done. As bad as our supply situation was there it was much worse for the Japanese. They kept pouring more and
more troops onto the island (stranded in the jungle) but had no reliable way to supply (feed) them.
 
That was one of the best weapons for close in jungle warfare and one of the biggest mistakes the Japanese made was not having any real sub machine gun to issue its troops.
 
I was able to set and listen to half dozen of these hero's talk about the campaign. It was fascinating. I then ask them "what was the worst battle the marines were in". They all agreed the battle for Tarawa. I had never heard of it up till then. A thank you prayer for all them.
 
(quoted from post at 08:02:09 08/07/18) They actually did know how to load the ships. They were supposed to be 're-loaded' into what is called a 'combat load' in New Zealand but due to time constraints and
friction with the dock workers there most of it didn't get done. As bad as our supply situation was there it was much worse for the Japanese. They kept pouring more and
more troops onto the island (stranded in the jungle) but had no reliable way to supply (feed) them.
Click to expand...

JF actually the Navy tried to place the blame for the loading on the dock workers in New Zealand but in fact because they had never done any real landings like that EVER they loaded the ships wrong. Part of that was the assumption that it would only take a week or 10 days. The Navy staff officers thought the island would be secure and the ship could unload in safety. So no big worries, right? Gotta remember, we didn't even any landing craft at all on 7 Dec 1941. No one envisioned having to invade off a ship. So they really didn't know how to combat load a ship because all prior planning had been based on being able to tie up to a port facility. Amphibious warfare was a whole new ball game. The Marines that landed at Guadalcanal were the guinea pigs. The Marines and soldiers that made the first landings did an incredible job but they, much like the first paratroopers were in uncharted territory tactically.

Rick
 
The LVT [tracked landing vehicle ] was invented for civilian use in 1935 . They had them at Guadacanal but they were not very far advanced yet.
 
We need to be MOST thankful that True Americans were there to change the tide of the war for good for All.None of the modern hollywood floozy types thatlove our milk and honey and Yet are protesting all the good works of our leaders today would be caught dead defending our Great America ,now or then.
 
In the first three major land battles, the Marines would suffer 100 to 200 KIA,s the Japanese suffered several thousand KIAs. In the other battle, the battle of the Tennaru the only reason they didn't have thousands killed is because they only have a little over 800 troops attack the Marine position, most of which were killed. These lopsided US victories were largely because the Japanese did straight frontal attacks against prepared Marine positions.

The Navy was another story, which engaged in a months long slugfest with the Japanese before they gained the upper hand.
 
(quoted from post at 10:02:36 08/07/18) The LVT [tracked landing vehicle ] was invented for civilian use in 1935 . They had them at Guadacanal but they were not very far advanced yet.
Click to expand...

You can look it up. On 7 Dec 1941 they Navy had no landing craft.

The US military had fallen way behind almost everyone. No one had really good beach assault boats. The US Navy simply did not see the threat or need. And what few budget dollars they got went to other things. We had strict isolationist laws on the books at the time so no one saw the need. Heck the Army was under 150,000 men when Hitler invaded Poland in 1939. In 1940 they were authorized to go to about 270,000 men. In 1941 prior to Pearl Harbor they authorized the Army to go to 1.4 million with less than 500,000 active duty. That should give you some idea just how unprepared the US was.

Most senior officers in the Navy did not see aircraft as a major threat on 6 Dec 1941 as far as the fleet was concerned. Some officers, flyers mostly thought that you could win a war with bombers only. No boots on the ground. Among there were General Curtis Lemay (US), Herman Goring (remember he was a WW1 ace), and "Bomber Harris". Most senior Naval officers didn't think that Japan was a threat at all. Then 9 months later they launch the first of many landings, at Guadalcanal. It was a learning curve for everyone involved. Mistakes were going to happen and did. Both the Navy and Marines took to heart the lessons they learned at Guadalcanal and they learned more from each subsequent island invasion.

Rick

Rick
 
The US Navy simply did not see the threat or need.


The landing craft were for invading a hostile beach. The US had no intentions of invading anyone in 1941. In 1942 the landing craft were needed to RETAKE what the Japanese had taken in the opening months of
the war. The idea that the Japanese would take all of the Philippines before the US could respond wasn't even considered.
 
Tarawa
a276182.jpg
 
One of the most disgraceful chapters in New Zealand history was the wellington Dock Strike (1942). The First Marine Division was given the assignment of taking Guadacanal in the Solomons from the Japanese.
It would be the first American offensive of World War II and the first American amphibious landing of the Pacific War. The airfield the Japanese were building on Guadacanal was part of a larger Japanese
effort to cut the sea lanes between America and Australia and New Zealand. The losses at Midwat had impaired that undertaking, but theJapanese had no abandomed it. The 1st Division's men and equipment was
scattered all over the Pacific. Much of the Division and support units were either in New Zealandc or in the way to New Zealand. Loading the Division's equipment for the assault force was tremendously
complicated by the Wellington dock workers strike. The workers had gone on strike before the orders came in, but they refused to come backnin to assist the American Marines who were preparing to fight for
New Zealand. The Marines had to do all the loading themselves, including the vital reconfiguration from administrative to combat assault. What resulted was 11 days of dockside mayhem (July 1942). Combat
loading was critical because even after Miday, the Japanese still held naval superority in the Paciffic and it was vital that the most critical equipment be landed as quickly as possible. The Marines cursed
the doickworkers. Rain destoyed cardboard packging. One naval officer recalls walking through 100 yards of sodden corn flakes. Food abd amunition supplies were reduced. [Birkitt, p. 21.] The 89 ships
carrying the 1st Division finally departed Wellington (July 22). General Vandergrift described landing exercizes on Koro Island as a "disaster" (July 28-30). The Marines landed (August 7). Thankfully, the
Japanese did not believe the American forces were capable of an offensive action. There were no Japanese combat units on the island. The Marines landed unopposed. Korean workers fled into the jungle. The
mayhem at Wellington, however, would affect what the Marines were able to load and what they were able to unload on the beaches before Japanese naval and air forces began to target the Marine bridgehead.
 
Guadalcanal is where my Dad made his first landing with the 2nd Marine Division.
 
Another good book is "The Lost Ships of Guadalcanal" by Robert Ballard, 1993, ISBN 0-446-51636-8

www.amazon.com/Lost-Ships-Guadalcanal-Exploring-Pacific/dp/0446516368/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1533686780&sr=1-1&keywords=lost+ships+of+guadalcanal
 
My uncle too, on Peleliu! He made it thru there, but shrapnel brought him home from Okinawa.
 
I still have, still use a Browning Model 11, 12 ga. full choke that my dad bought when he was young. It was modeled after the Remington, forget the number that was popular before their 1100 auto. with the smooth transition from steel to wood that is/was so popular....I had one of those.

Replacement parts are still available as I replaced some worn parts in the ejection mechanism a few years ago.....easily repaired by non-gunsmith owner.
 
(quoted from post at 12:34:19 08/07/18) Hiigins Boats - landing craft at Guadacanal. Circa 1940.
Untitled URL Link
Click to expand...

OK that was in 1942. In 1941 the Navy didn't own a landing craft at all. So 8 months almost 9 after the attack of Pearl Harbor the Navy had them. They are not a particularly sophisticated piece of equipment. Didn't take em long to understand the need and come up with a solution. Heck in 1941 the US Army Air Corps and Naval aviation thought that the P40 and F4F were perfectly capable combat aircraft even though intelligence was telling them otherwise. Didn't really take em very long to come up with solutions to that either.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 14:48:59 08/07/18) One of the most disgraceful chapters in New Zealand history was the wellington Dock Strike (1942). The First Marine Division was given the assignment of taking Guadacanal in the Solomons from the Japanese.
It would be the first American offensive of World War II and the first American amphibious landing of the Pacific War. The airfield the Japanese were building on Guadacanal was part of a larger Japanese
effort to cut the sea lanes between America and Australia and New Zealand. The losses at Midwat had impaired that undertaking, but theJapanese had no abandomed it. The 1st Division's men and equipment was
scattered all over the Pacific. Much of the Division and support units were either in New Zealandc or in the way to New Zealand. Loading the Division's equipment for the assault force was tremendously
complicated by the Wellington dock workers strike. The workers had gone on strike before the orders came in, but they refused to come backnin to assist the American Marines who were preparing to fight for
New Zealand. The Marines had to do all the loading themselves, including the vital reconfiguration from administrative to combat assault. What resulted was 11 days of dockside mayhem (July 1942). Combat
loading was critical because even after Miday, the Japanese still held naval superority in the Paciffic and it was vital that the most critical equipment be landed as quickly as possible. The Marines cursed
the doickworkers. Rain destoyed cardboard packging. One naval officer recalls walking through 100 yards of sodden corn flakes. Food abd amunition supplies were reduced. [Birkitt, p. 21.] The 89 ships
carrying the 1st Division finally departed Wellington (July 22). General Vandergrift described landing exercizes on Koro Island as a "disaster" (July 28-30). The Marines landed (August 7). Thankfully, the
Japanese did not believe the American forces were capable of an offensive action. There were no Japanese combat units on the island. The Marines landed unopposed. Korean workers fled into the jungle. The
mayhem at Wellington, however, would affect what the Marines were able to load and what they were able to unload on the beaches before Japanese naval and air forces began to target the Marine bridgehead.
Click to expand...

Yes at some point prior to invading Guadalcanal someone realized that the ships were loaded wrong and the strike prevented them for being reloaded but that means when those ships left the US someone had not figured out how they had to be loaded. It was after all the 1st of many landings that the US would make (not all in the Pacific) during the war. With the nations neutrality laws prior to 7 Dec 1941 no one really gave invading anything much thought. Most thought was defensive, not offensive. So packing a ship for an invasion with plans to offload in primitive conditions had not had much is any effort put into it.

Prior to WWII but post WWI all US military effort was aimed at defense. If troops were deployed, like they were to South America in the late 20's and 30's (look up banana wars), they expected to sail into a friendly or secured harbor with docking facilities. They expected to be able to off load ships in a somewhat relaxed atmosphere. No one spent any effort at planning an invasion. The brass would have been horrified at the very idea. All it would take is a disgruntled junior officer or enlisted clerk working on it to let a congressman or senator know about it or leak it to the news media. Congress would not have been amused at the head lines "US NAVY PLANING TO INVADE"! Not too long before the attack on Pearl Harbor they had guys throwing punches in congress over our isolationist laws. So I'm not faulting the Navy for not really knowing what they were doing 8 months after Pearl. Heck even after Coral Sea and Midway they were still trying to figure out the shift from battleships to carriers.

Have any of you guys interested in WWII ever wondered why the Navy and US Army never figured out pre-invasion bombardment through the entire war? It's even more confusing after you look at England's "earthquake bomb" that could have really disrupted Japanese cave defensive positions. The "tall boy" bomb was available Jun 44. Those dropped on the islands would have had much greater effect on the Japanese that the battleships guns did. They left a crater 80 feet across and 24 feet deep and could penetrate about 16 feet of concrete. Just a side note......

Rick
 
I just saw a replay of footage of the Phillipines the day after Pearl Harbor. What wasn't mentioned was whether or not Clark Field had received a message about Pearl. One would surely think that they would have. To not have the base on full alert smells of somebody needing a courts-martial....at the highest level. Yeah hind sight is 20-20, but in that case, if Pearl were known about at Clark on the 7th, not being on full alert with Clark being where it was and full knowledge of the Japanese expansionist activities in that theater as they were, was dereliction of duty at the base commander level at the very least. I gave Sam 9 years. I paid my dues to rant.
 
To add to what oldtanker said, the F4F was a vast improvement over the Brewster Buffalo, but still inferior. Several of our better fighters were designed prior to the war, but took time to get into production in numbers that mattered. The F4U was designed in 1928 and flew in 1940. The Lockheed lightning was designed in 1937 and flew in 1939. The Mustang was designed and first flew in 1940. The F6F Hellcat was designed in 1938 but did not fly until 1942.
The United States began WW-2 with USS Lexington, USS Saratoga, USS Ranger, USS Yorktown, USS Enterprise, USS Wasp and USS Hornet. Of these, four were lost. The first Essex class carrier did not arrive until December 1942. The USS Hornet was the last carrier sunk, lost in the battle of the Santa Cruz Islands 26 October 1942. The United States built 24 Essex class Carriers.
Japan began the war with ten aircraft carriers and converted three ships to carriers during the war. Several other carriers were in the process of being built but either not completed, or never manned.
What our father's generation accomplished was simply amazing.
Thanks to Ultradog, oldtanker and others for keeping History alive. Here is to hoping that some of the next generation are reading this and learning about our History.
 
Considering the international date line, the attack on Pearl happened at 03:00 on the 8th Philippine time. The units on Luzon launched patrols shortly after, but those units were returning, low on fuel when the Japanese air raids were detected at 11:27 a.m. The Units had been ordered to implement operation Rainbow5 and attack Formosa from which a Japanese attack was expected. Those returning units were to prepare for that raid.
Eight hours seems like a long time, but not when you are switching from a peace footing to total war.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Ultradog MN
Operation Ke. 2/1/1943
Replies
1
Views
192
Goose
Goose
B
This Day in History Mar. 19
Replies
3
Views
823
RBoots
R
B
This Day in History Aug. 19
Replies
0
Views
241
blue water massey
B
YTSupport
The Greatest generation
Replies
10
Views
6K
casenut1
C
Ultradog MN
Guadalcanal Campaign Begins - August 7 1942
Replies
16
Views
4K
Anonymous-0
A
Tractor Parts Tractor Manuals

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top