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What does it take to make top tier gasoline?

Geo-TH,In

Geo-TH,In

Well-known Member
Researching top tier gasoline I find a list of 76 gas stations that sell it.

I find there is really no definitive standard as to how much detergent is added, the active ingredient in the detergent and what's the concentration.

Phillips 66 claims they have 3x the minimum detergent required by the EPA. So does that mean that all gasoline has some detergent mandated by EPA? If so, what is the minimum concentration? And what is the detergent?

Marathon has King Richard promoting STP fuel additive.

Is King Richard's STP fuel additive really better than SeaFoam? Or are they all the same detergent?

There is no question in my mind that keeping valves and pistons clean and free of carbon is necessary.

If I can buy Kroger gasoline for my old tractors, with a dollar off a gallon using their fuel rewards points, what fuel additive and what concentration should I use to bring it up to Top Tier standards?
 
I don't know any of the concentrations, may be proprietary information. From what I understand, all the gas comes from the same pipe line, it's up to the terminal operator to put in the additives for that brand and grade when the truck is loaded.

But I've never used any kind of additive other than deicer back in the day.

I've never had any preference of brand, always seek the best price. (Unless it's a grand opening, then let everybody else get what flushes out of the tank and lines first!)

The best way to keep deposits out is to avoid short trips, keep the mixture right and properly tuned, run a hot thermostat, keep the oil changed and use the recommended or better oil. Once the guides and seals start leaking, just a matter of time until they will need to be replaced.
 
I use Kroger regular in everything but air cooled engines.

Fort small, seasonally used, air cooled engines I use Shell premium.

One wonders why the EPA has taken it upon itself to mandate the amount of "detergent" in gasoline???

Dean
 

Having worked in the fueling industry, I can tell you that all fuel comes out of the same tanks. It is true that all brands have their own proprietary fuel additives, which get injected at the terminal when filling the trucks for delivery. You will never get to know what those are. That being said, the major oil companies all produce excellent additives. Especially in their premium fuels, (93 octane). Pre-ethanol, the submersible pumps in the tanks were always cleanest in premium. Once ethanol was mandated, the tanks all were cleaned prior to filling with e10.

The problem with e10 is water, or more precisely, phase separation, which occurs if there is water getting into contact with the fuel, usually caused by negligence at the site. Trying to stick the tank when the fill sump is full of water. Though this is easy to identify by the stalled customers in the site.

So,the premium grade of gasoline is the best gasoline for keeping your engine clean...
 
(quoted from post at 09:59:22 07/31/18) I don't know any of the concentrations, may be proprietary information. From what I understand, all the gas comes from the same pipe line, it's up to the terminal operator to put in the additives for that brand and grade when the truck is loaded.

But I've never used any kind of additive other than deicer back in the day.

I've never had any preference of brand, always seek the best price. (Unless it's a grand opening, then let everybody else get what flushes out of the tank and lines first!)

The best way to keep deposits out is to avoid short trips, keep the mixture right and properly tuned, run a hot thermostat, keep the oil changed and use the recommended or better oil. Once the guides and seals start leaking, just a matter of time until they will need to be replaced.
Click to expand...

"Back in the day" occasionally a bottle of "HEET" was required. No need for any of that with todays E-10 gasoline.
 
I too have used Kroger fuel for years in my older truck, mowers, all tractors. No where can I find if Kroger fuel it's top tier.

Just bought a new 2018 Luxury Cadillac XT5. Owner's manual says only use top tier fuel. I won't gas it up at Krogers. Only use fuels from Phillips 66, Marathon, Country Mark, Shell which are supposed to be top tier.
 
Thanks,
I already knew the list of gas stations selling Top Tier fuels.

I still don't know what the detergent is, do you?

Does anyone think STP gas treatment is what Marathon uses?
 
(quoted from post at 02:48:39 08/01/18) I too have used Kroger fuel for years in my older truck, mowers, all tractors. No where can I find if Kroger fuel it's top tier.

Just bought a new 2018 Luxury Cadillac XT5. Owner's manual says only use top tier fuel. I won't gas it up at Krogers. Only use fuels from Phillips 66, Marathon, Country Mark, Shell which are supposed to be top tier.
Click to expand...

GOOD CALL, Goggle "gdi engines top tier gasoline" When the local Lowe's foods opened up I had a rash of drivabiltiy complaints. The fix on next fill use BP... My tow truck will display drivability problems with walmart marathon gas one time was enoufh for me...From my own test BP has little to no ethanol I prefer BP...
 
Years ago we went to Shell products after using other brands and having to do valve job on loader tractor every year and Mercury car that
spark knocked on all other brands of premium gas..
 
Never heard of the term "top tier" for gasoline up here. Premium of course is an old term, and now you can get premium up here without any ethanol but Top Tier sounds like something else, maybe having to do with detergents? Maybe someone can explain it a bit more for me? Also, what about price?
 
Thanks,
I did ask the Kroger manager if their gas is top tier? I don't know!

I ask the man delivering Kroger gas if it was top tier? I don't know, what is top tier?

Shell sells top tier. Was told that Circle-K, a shell convenience center may not have top tier. So just because Kroger may have gas delivered by Shell doesn't mean it's Top Tier. The truck delivering gas at my Kroger's isn't a shell truck.

A Marathon gas station owner said it should say on the Manifest if it's top Tier.

Was also told the US has a limited number of refineries, so yes all your gas may come from the same place. The detergent is added at the refinery per specs from different gas stations. No one seems to know what that detergent is.
 
Oops, I just read Mutt & Jeff's link below, explains things pretty good. Missed it first time through the thread.
 
here's what I know I drove truck& trailer tanker for 5 years the owner of the truck also owned 12 stations one was a 76 with the top TIER sign outside I would dumped 11.500 gal of the same gas that I took to every other store that where not 76s but he charged out as if it was, not saying every body does this but in the gas business you are not guaranteed what you think you are buying ,he use to dump regular in the super tank if it was low .
 
Never much worried about the tier of gasoline just the grade. However the oil I wanted it to be as high in detergent as possible as I have seen engines that were started cold and run cold, or not been changed very regularly--an engine can be destroyed that way. So I use 15-40 oil with all the ratings for diesel. Runs fine and when I pulled an engine down after 100+ miles it was CLEAN. Little staining but no slug or other deposits. SO my recommendation is run the recommended grade of fuel, regular or premium, and a best detergent oil you can find. Diesel grade oil at 15-40 will do it, it cost a small amount in gas mileage but not noticeable and your car will be running when all the rest are parked.
 
Dealer will be changing my oil for 3 years with a 5w30 oil.

When car is out of warranty, I'll still use oil recommended by owner's manual, not 15w40.

I've never had an oil related issue using the oil the manufacturer's recommend.

However I have seen carbon build up on valve stems and on the top of piston. Not sure that is caused by the oil, do you?
 
Do these detergents burn or do they just go out the exhaust pipe unburned? If the detergents don’t burn I would thing the gasoline with high detergents would put put less BTU’s. Right or wrong?
 
The important thing about Top Tier is it is a performance spec. The fuel is tested to ensure it passes performance tests specified by Ford and GM. So no matter how much snake oil you add to gas, if you don't have the ability to test it according to the test protocols you have no way of knowing whether or not it meets Top Tier requirements.
 
(quoted from post at 20:38:29 07/31/18) Do these detergents burn or do they just go out the exhaust pipe unburned? If the detergents don’t burn I would thing the gasoline with high detergents would put put less BTU’s. Right or wrong?
Click to expand...

You are already at less btu's due to the ethanol.
 
I'm thinking the term (Top Tier) is just a marketing phrase the oil companies are using to make the public think they are getting something special if you buy their fuel.
 
Good point.
I think KFC's recipe and the detergent mandated by the EPA are both a BIG SECRET.
 
I don't think it's a sales gimmick.

Top Tier Detergent Gasoline and Top Tier Diesel Fuel are performance specifications and trademarks designed and supported by several major automakers ? BMW, General Motors, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, Ford, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz, and Audi (as of 2018). Each of these automakers recommends the use of Top Tier Detergent Gasoline in their owner's manuals. Top Tier fuels must maintain levels of detergent additives that result in a higher standard of engine cleanliness and performance as compared to the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) requirement. In addition, Top Tier fuels may not contain metallic additives, which can harm the vehicle emission system and create pollutants. As of 2018, Top Tier Detergent Gasoline is available from 75 licensed retail brands.

Licensed Top Tier fuel retailers use a higher level of detergent additives compared to other non Top Tier retailers using only the minimum EPA required detergent additives in order to help prevent the buildup of harmful engine deposits which may reduce fuel economy and optimal engine performance. According to an automotive industry spokesman, the regular use of this type of gasoline results in improved engine life.[1]

The Top Tier standards must apply to all grades of gasoline or diesel that a company sells, whether it is economy (low-octane) or premium (high-octane).[2]


Contents
 
Many years back GM had lots of issues with carbon build up on top of pistons. They concluded it was from something in 10W-40 engine oil so the then said to start using 10w-30.
 
I watched part of a history series on some of the richest people in history. Found it really interesting way back when Kerosene was king the top oil guy ( forget name )was trying to figure out what to do with all this clear funny smelling highly flamable liquid by product. They were actually just letting it run off to pollute. This liquid was called Gasoline ! This guy helped to promote the invention of the gas engine to have a market for this by product.
 

As more models have become DIRECT INJECTED.. where the fuel no longer passes through the intake valves, They are see new problems crop up with the intake valves gunking up. Top tier fuels sadly do not fix this problem as the fuel no longer lubricates or cleans the intake valves. There are aftermarket solutions where cleaner is injected by the dealers in a CONTROLLED fashion to clean the intakes. But is a problem created by the newer technology.
 
Yes, gasoline direct injection engines are pretty dirty in the intake ports and on the intake valves because they don't see fuel spray anymore. They still benefit greatly from top tier fuel though. Their injectors have much smaller orifices and tolerances than standard fuel injection. They also have a high pressure fuel pump (injector pump) that increases pressures to 2-3000 PSI that needs to stay clean. Top Tier fuel will definitely help keep these parts clean but it will not keep the intake ports or valves clean.

I think it might be worth spending a few pennies more per gallon for top tier fuel. I only hope we are getting what we are paying for though. With today's engines and technology, fuels and oils are becoming a lot more critical on using quality products to keep them alive and healthy.
 
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